Microsoft Seeks Another OS-Level Adware Patent

theodp writes "Microsoft has just published a patent application for advertising triggered by sequences of user actions, which describes how to interrupt game playing, music listening, and photo viewing with pop-up ads ('the components may be integrated directly into the operating system'). So will this ad technology get a free pass from Windows Defender?"

Ummm... what?

[TubeSteak (669689)]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1385/1370980934_bc3b2fc882_o.jpg [flickr.com]

Can anyone tell me what this picture is supposed to do with "how to interrupt game playing, music listening, and photo viewing with pop-up ads"?

Re:

[porcupine8 (816071)]

Maybe the fact that there's a pop-up text ad for snapfish, walmart, and shutterfly photo developing hovering over the thumbnails?

Re:

[Lanu2000 (972889)]

This image represents a file window (item 700) displaying pictures (item 702) with the ad window (item 704) shown.

Re:Ummm... what?

[antarctican (301636)]

While having something like this built in to the OS would be a scary prospect, and the potential inability to disable it.

But I see an upside to this technology. If we're lucky, M$ will never get around to implementing these technologies, and thanks to their patents, no one else will be able to implement such invasive advertising tactics.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm completely against software and business model patents, they're the worst of the worst when it comes to patent trolls. But if the upside of a broken patent system is bad business practices don't get implemented, at least there's some benefit.

Actually I think as a community we should become a little more proactive on such things. Let's think up some other invasive technology ideas, things we'd never want to see implemented in the wild, and patent them. And never licence these patents. Keep the evilness out of software by making it defaultly illegal.

Explains the network interrupt problem

[EmbeddedJanitor (597831)]

A week or so ago we had probelms of sound playing disturbing network trafric. Inmagine the extra overheads of processing adware.,

Re:kdawson fud of the day.

[jombeewoof (1107009)]

Ad sponsored software is one thing, but when I pay for a program and and updates to that program insert ads that I did not agree to view that is not acceptable.
Opera didn't just one day start showing ads when there were none before.
And ad sponsored software is usually free (beer) software. You cannot sell something, and then add ads to it with a service pack or update.
That's just wrong, and informing us of it is not FUD.

You sir, are an idiot.

Re:kdawson fud of the day.

[jimstapleton (999106)]

because MS as a corporation with shareholders is required to maximize profits.

That argument actually favors MS not putting this in payed windows (or at least, full-price windows)

1. Keeping existing user base is also important to making profit.
2. Gaining user base is important to making profits.
3. Users don't like advertisements, especially when they didn't ask for them.
4. MS is aware of #3 due to their creation of an anti-spyware/adware program.
5. Users tend to move away only when they have active dislike, not when they don't notice somthing.
6. The less than moral advertising agencies on the web have no low to which they will not stoop.

Combining these facts, we can conclude Microsofts next actions will most likely consist of:
1. Full priced Windows will not have these advertisements
2. A reduced price and/or free Windows may be released, with advertisements of varying invasiveness
3. Microsoft will sue any advertising agency violating this patent on Windows, to keep such advertisements off Windows, keeping the user base happier
4. Microsoft may or may not sue agencies violating this patent on other OSes - if they do not, then that's more encouragement for users to use Windows, where they don't have such a hassle.

Re:kdawson fud of the day.

[pintpusher (854001)]

I don't disagree that this is how it will start, but the tin-foil hat me says that based on the past performance of MS, they will ultimately end up doing both: charging for windows and selling ads for that same installation. It may not be on "purpose", but I believe it will happen.

The reality, as I see it from under my shiny, crinkly dome shaped lid is that *everything* is subject to being plastered with ads and the computer desktop is not exempt. Someone somewhere will eventually pay enough to get their ad on MS's desktop. period.

I also wouldn't put it past MS to "accidently" serve up ads to those who have paid to avoid them. As we all know, these kinds of things happen all the time. And many people have been "trained" to believe that this is just the way computers are. Sometimes they just don't work the way you tell them to... MS has spent decades teaching people that computers sometimes do random things for no reason and that's apparently totally acceptable to most. So why not the same with the ads?

MS will integrate this technology into the OS directly and then "turn it off" from some server, so even those who have the "ad-free" version of Windows will have the adware running on their system, it will just be checking to see whether it should serve up the ads or not. When that server goes down, it will "default" to serving up the ads until MS gets around to repairing it.

I now doff my recyclable metal head covering.

Re:

[Shadowmist (57488)]

Interesting examples. As I recall the ad-funded model didn't work well for either Opera or Eudora. I'm not sure what the present buisness model for Opera is, but Eudora was recently released to open source and is now being developed as the Penelope project with the Mozilla folks.

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[Ash Vince (602485)]

Why the hell are so many sad fuckwits so interested in who posts crap stories?

If you are not interested in a story, fuck off and don't read it, simple.

Why posting a stupid comment slagging off the person who posted it? Unless you have nothing better to do than sit around griping and not doing anything constructive.

If you have something interesting to say, then say it. Otherwise piss off and whine to your shrink instead, at least they are paid to your anti-kdawson drivel.

Adware to interrupt games???

[TaoPhoenix (980487)]

I'm dying to see the reaction to this.

"Quick, get to the health fountain.... What the.. My character DIED so I can learn about Diet Caffeine Free Tab??"

Or, alternatively...

[StressGuy (472374)]

Perrier Spring Water, "The Pause that Refreshes!"

Guiness -- FOR STRENGTH!

{The preceeding message was brought to you by Dikken's Apple Cider, because remember, on a cold winter's day, nothing beats a hot Dikken's Cider.}

Re:

[jimstapleton (999106)]

There's that option... But another option is possible too...

"Oh, you are spamming ads at a series of actions - we own the patent. Here's your cease-and-desist, and we are sueing you for your profits. Have a nice day."

Give how much that could interfere with users using the OS, I can see this as being Microsoft's more likely use. The exception being if the start making advert-to-use OS subsidisation.

I See

[by Anonymous Coward]

I see you are rebooting again, click here to burn a Live CD, courtesy of Canonical.

May be something good will come out of this.

[140Mandak262Jamuna (970587)]

One good thing about all these things is that, pretty soon people will be so horrified by the user experience in the Windows, they will be pushed into adopting Linux. After all it is the well integrated pop-up blocker that created the initial mass of downloads for Firefox.

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[Tackhead (54550)]

> One good thing about all these things is that, pretty soon people will be so horrified by the user experience in the Windows, they will be pushed into adopting Linux. After all it is the well integrated pop-up blocker that created the initial mass of downloads for Firefox.

The day after this patent is approved, Firefox may well be subject to an infringement claim. After all, you have to know something about how Microsoft's next-gen operating-system-generated pop-ups in order to block them.

Patent means Nobody Else Can Use It!

[billstewart (78916)]

Usually I'm against software patents - they're not only usually overbroad, but they mean that if you invent something yourself that somebody else also invented and patented, you can't use your own work.

In this case, I'll make an exception - if MS patents this, then nobody else is allowed to use this kind of annoying interference with user experience :-)

Ideal Ad Opportunity

[bateleur (814657)]

advertising triggered by sequences of user actions

Hmm... maybe a Linux ad if you hit CTRL-ALT-DELETE more than three times in an hour?

Hints of a Free Windows

[dsginter (104154)]

This probably means that Microsoft is preparing a "Free as in ad supported" version of Windows for the day when FOSS starts taking over (FASS = Free, Ad Supported Software).

I have a better name than FASS

[StressGuy (472374)]

How about "Community Released, Ad Supported Software"?

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[BronsCon (927697)]

I prefer Completely Retarded Advertising Program, myself.

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[BronsCon (927697)]

Of coursed, that's linked with Binary-Only Web Enabled Libraries

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[ericrost (1049312)]

Dude, he said fASS...

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[drakaan (688386)]

You beat me to it. That's immediately what I thought. They can't combat piracy effectively, there are other OSs out there that work just as well, and it's getting harder and harder to sell copies of their software, so this makes perfect sense.

My guess is that the more you spend for your copy of Windows in the future, the fewer ads you'll see (or the more ads you'll be able to disable).

I don't like it at all, and I'd rather have my OS be free as in "free" than add supported (or to pay for it and not see

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[flanksteak (69032)]

Agreed. If not for the wealthier markets but maybe for developing countries where the cost of Windows license can't be what it is US/Europe/Asia, etc.

It could also be a move towards a subscription system. Pay your annual Windows fee or not, either way we'll keep updating your box with patches and not worry about WGA. Just watch these ads if you don't want to pay us or while you're trying to straighten out the WGA validation failures.

Re:Hints of a Free Windows

[mattpalmer1086 (707360)]

That's certainly a possibility. But if you read the patent, it describes a system that tracks user actions using a component with access to "global system state", across all applications, not just Microsoft applications or in the operating system itself. This means that software doesn't have to be modified to be ad aware - any software used on the machine can be tracked and used for this purpose.

This would allow Microsoft to turn Windows into an advertising channel, through which any software or service advertiser could sell ads, based on the kinds of things you do. The user action information could even be more valuable to them than the advertising for market research purposes (it does say that the user action information can be transmitted back to their servers).

Oh really?

[PontifexMaximus (181529)]

And here I was thinking that was considered 'BAD' by security vendors, et al. Now MS is getting a patent for what looks to me like a OS supported Trojan Horse? Lovely. Yet another reason why I have 1 copy of windows at my house, for games, that's not connected to any network while it's on, and my other 12 systems run linux. Thank Linus for choice.

Its about time!

[Altus (1034)]

Man, this kicks ass! I cant wait till MS actually implements this in windows. This is the kind of idea that could really spark a revolution.

Admittedly it would be better described as a revolt... by windows users, but whatever... if MS wants to shoot themselves in the foot they should go for it. And by patenting it the ensure that no other OS will follow suit.

Re:

[porcupine8 (816071)]

I can't imagine Apple putting this is OS X anyhow. Ads are so tacky. If by some chance they did, anyone who wanted to advertise through it would have to hire one of three Apple-approved marketing firms to design the ad and it would have to be personally approved by Steve Jobs as pretty enough. And they'd be so tightly-integrated with the rest of the OS that you wouldn't even notice them there anyhow. Between the high barrier to entry and low clickthrough rate (because no one notices them), no one would both

Are MS-users really that dumb?

[Algorithmnast (1105517)]

Can Microsoft really be arrogant enough to put such software into their OS? Is this just a shot off the bow, softening up the user so that when this is put into production they'll have less ability to complain about it?

I'm amazed that anyone would think that e-mail and games are worth have an ad forced into their face. But then, I'd rather be solving problems than trough-feeding.

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[eno2001 (527078)]

I don't think this is about users. Users aren't going to be Microsoft's main customers in a few years. Advertisers will and users will be the commodity. Microsoft is doing this to position itself as the next logical progression from television to the much talked about "convergence" device. Just because TV is becoming less and less relevant, doesn't mean that ads are going away.

See the forest and the trees

[jgarra23 (1109651)]

These patents are being presented with Microsoft's long term business goals in mind- to integrate ads into the OS as they make their shift towards SaaS of the coming years and to integrate with Windows Live among other things... since they seem to think the thick client will go the way of the dodo (what morons, the real killer thin client is a portable pc, laptop, phone, etc.. not one without it's own OS and defined userspace) and they will be able to create a (for lack of a better word) layer or shim for advertising which they will charge for advertising on. Think of the "cloud" crap you keep hearing about from Mr. Ballmer.

The good news is, this will fail miserably similar to Netzero's old revenue model (when they first started). The bad news is, they have a larger money vault than Uncle Scrooge so they will recover and continue to make idiot ideas...

Anit-Piracy Use?

[umStefa (583709)]

My initial reaction to this was along the lines of it being just another possible plan by microsoft to gouge the consumer. However what if this is actually technology to fight piracy but minimize the effect on legitimate customers.

Microsofts current anit-piracy activites (i.e. the Vista Black screen of death) can cause a legitimate customers computer to become virutally in-operable when the malfunction. Imagine the following scenario however.

You can download and install Windows without any sort of licence key for free, but you will need to live with the pop-up ads which effectivly pay for the operating system. You would still have the option of purchasing a licence and thereby getting rid of the ads.

Would this be a legitimate (i.e. not evil) use of this patent?

Not just the good

[dazedNconfuzed (154242)]

Would this be a legitimate (i.e. not evil) use of this patent?

You think they'll stop there?

Cable TV was supposed to be ad-free too.
(Now I don't watch TV, period.)

Re:

[JCSoRocks (1142053)]

I think that something along these lines is exactly the intent of the patent. People here claiming that this is the end of windows and that Microsoft is planning on integrating this into the OS for paying customers are nuts. Corporate users, power users and novices alike would all hate it. Microsoft may be greedy, powerful, etc, but they aren't suicidal. Sorry linux fanboys... better luck next time! :)

I think so..

[msimm (580077)]

Those where along the lines of my initial reaction. Microsoft embraces piracy to gain market share. Now they are working a little more seriously to stop it but at the same time the field is slowly but surely becoming more competitive. After failing to install a (duplicate) copy of XP on my laptop I simply chose to use Kubuntu. I'm not going to suggest that this would be a typical reaction from an average user right now, but in the mid to near-term it will increase. What you suggest would be a smart compromi

More likely, the cable model...

[gillbates (106458)]

More likely, you'll have to pay $19.95 to download Windows Ad Supported.

If you want to get rid of most of the ads, you'll have to pay an additional $189.95. After paying this fee, you'll only see the Microsoft Premiere Vendor(TM) ads. And only every other day.

To go completely ad-free, you'll have to buy a Premier Partner Subscription, with a one-time activation charge of $399.95 and monthly subscription fee of $19.95.

Microsoft's Modus Operandi

[smclean (521851)]

It's funny to see Microsoft use these same tactics over and over again. No matter who the competitor, they leverage their control of the OS to attack their competition.

Does anyone disagree that this patent is an expression of Microsoft applying this formula to supplant Google's dominance in advertising? I'm a little dubious as to its potential threat to Google, but time will tell.

This stinks like the preparations for advertising-supported Microsoft products.

A benign explanation?

[jmaslak (39422)]

Just maybe, perhaps, this will give MS a way of going after spyware and malware authors - on the basis of patent infringement.

It might not be a patent that they intend to use, except in the courts...anything that gets rid of Windows malware helps Microsoft, after all.

Maybe It's Defensive

[yakmans_dad (1144003)]

I'd like to think that they want to prevent anyone from doing this.

It's a thought.

Whitehat patents?

[GiMP (10923)]

While everyone here is thinking about this in a sinister fashion.. could this be a "whitehat patent"? That is, by patenting forms of adware, Microsoft can legally protect their OS from
such software -- giving them ammunition to use against the adware makers.

Riiiiiiiight....

[dazedNconfuzed (154242)]

Bill: "This is a whitehat patent, designed to stop evil."
Me: "Here's $50,000,000 if you'll pop up this little picture when the user does certain things."
Bill: "Yeahhhhhhhhhh...ok, so let's redefine 'evil' here..."

I may be asking too much...

[creativeHavoc (1052138)]

... from microsoft here, however it would be really nice if the goal of these patents was to provide annother means in which to legally interfear with future spam delivery methods. By patenting the techniques, they have legal ground to stop spammers using those techniques, even if through other laws the spammers have snuck by.

How to Beat the Patent Expiration Date

[dcollins (135727)]

Year 0: Patent A, a method to show ads.
Year 5: Patent B, a method to defeat A and block ads.
Year 10: Patent C, a method to defeat B and show ads.
Year 15: Patent D, a method to defeat C and block ads.
Year 20: Patent E, a method to defeat D and show ads.
Etc.

(Much like the phone company selling: caller ID - blocker - interceptor - blocker - interceptors). This way in any year you've got at least two pairs of ad showers/blockers available and protected under patents.

Also, patent this overall idea as a business

Why Wouldn't People Want This?

[eno2001 (527078)]

Read my lips people. We live in the U.S.A. Anyone who lives in any other backwards countries need not apply to this discussion. Here in the U.S. we have this system called capitalism. It allows us to have a high standard of living and the best thing of all, it's FREE! We're trying to get the rest of the world to use the same system since it does wonders for the standard of living and politics. The U.S. is brimming with opportunity thanks to capitalism. Anyone can become a millionaire and what Microsoft is proposing is just giving everyone (who matters) a new tool with which to make even more money by showing your service or product to trillions of people on the planet. I think anyone who doesn't see this is probably just some backwards communist or socialist who wants to steal my property and redistribute it to people who don't matter. Kudos to Microsoft for arming capitalist with another powerful way of getting at other people's cash in exchange for our great services and products!

CEO and Christ Figure
of PhilthyLucre.com

If they do this...

[JustNiz (692889)]

I'm a big online UT player. Imagine the scenario:
You're been working to get really close to the objective, finally you've managed to dodge a whole team of really good defenders, you've only got at most two seconds to get the game-winning shot in and...
Some advertising pop-up appears right over your aiming cross and steals your keyboard and mouse input. You watch helplessy as in that moment you temporarily lose the opportunity to dodge the incoming hail of rockets and get killed.

The you read the stupid advert and find it is trying to sell you some stupid product that is totally irellevant to you.

The only (and I mean only) reason I have windows on my PC at all is for DX10 gaming. I dream of the day that DX10 is ported to Wine/Linux in which case I'll gleefully banish Windows from my PC forever. If MS actually make game-interfering pop-ups happen, that day will just come sooner.

More kdawsonfud

[everphilski (877346)]

Read the patent. It uses a statistical model to analyze what the user is doing and suggest services the user might be interested in. Kinda like what Google ads does, but within a program.

The picture linked shows this in action. The user is processing images. The ad, which is enabled in the software, suggests photo development services of several clients.

From the patent,

Finally, in the screen display shown in FIG. 7, a user has navigated to a user interface 700 for accessing and viewing photos 702 stored on the user device. For example, the user may have downloaded photos 702 from a digital camera and may be viewing the photos in the user display 700. The system may determine based on these user actions that a likely task that the user would like to perform would be to send one or more of the photos 702 to an online photo development center. Additionally, the system may determine that the user does not currently have any particular online photo development service subscriptions. As such, the system has selected and presented a number of advertisements for online photo development services in a preview pane 704 of the user interface 700.

One particular application. Claiming it is 'adware' 'getting a pass from Windows Defender' is nothing but kdawsonfud, not the first and certainly not the last. All it is, an idea, not all that different from the targeted advertising provided by a certain search engine slashbots seem so quick to defend against all claims.

Thank you...

[DragonTHC (208439)]

This is the greatest boon to Linux I've ever seen.

Digging deeper ...

[sgunhouse (1050564)]

Maybe I'm dreaming, but I think I see something different here ...

When I see discussions involving ads, who do I really think of? No, not MS - Google. Sounds to me like MS is patenting stuff that they expect Google to want.

No, MS could never sell a version of Windows with OS-level adware in it (unless they plan to give it away and pay for it with the ads, but I doubt it) so instead I see ammuntion for their upcoming battle against the still-mythical GoogleOS. If Google has to pay MS licensing fees for components of GoogleOS, then MS wins no matter which product people use.

Ad Supported Windows

[vux984 (928602)]

Personally, I think these efforts are going to result in an ad supported edition of Windows. While it will be the horrific user experience everyone here predicts, I also predict it will be entirely optional.

Merely, that when it comes time to buy a computer, you can get Vista Home Basic Ad-supported edition for free, or Vista Ultimate for $500.00 with the ability to make proper backups, support for encryption, and no built-in adware.

It would be an interesting development. How would linux fare in the home market if a version of Windows were "free", and you could install it on as many computers as you wanted without violating the license?

How many people would pay for the 'ad-free' version?

Food for thought.

I don't think Microsoft is being evil. I think its smart, and good business.

I wonder if someone will release an ad supported linux distro, where the ads cover the cost of providing support. So you can get Linux with community support for free, or ad-Linux with, phone support, and remote-access technicians fluent in your language of choice.

It will be FOSS, so anyone who wants to can disable the ads, but doing so of course will terminate your support service.