Second Life Lawsuit Heads to Federal Court

Conlaw writes "A former plumbing contractor who has made a new career selling virtual cyber sex toys in the virtual world of Second Life, has now brought suit against another player who is allegedly copying and selling a device called the Sex Gen. The plaintiff, whose avatar is known as 'Stroker Serpentine,' is seeking the real name of the copycat entrepreneur. The reporter describing the lawsuit included commentary from a cyber law professor whose university maintains a virtual Supreme Court in the Second Life world."

They need a virtual court

[Zarhan (415465)]

Someone better start operating one...Then virtual cops can come and enforce the decision and virtual collectors agencies can come and take your virtual goods to pay any restitutions and then your virtual character can be locked up in virtual jail where you can escape with the virtual file to saw off the virtual bars. Then they can have a virtual chase of the prison escapee..

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[Goaway (82658)]

This is Second Life. That would be main attraction.

Remember when games were just for fun?

[rolfwind (528248)]

What happened? People first took games too seriously because of violent content, now since MMORPGs, gamers also take it too seriously in general.

What happened?

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[GigsVT (208848)]

Nothing happened. Second Life isn't a game, any more than the web is a game.

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[Tony Hoyle (11698)]

Since when is second life not a game?

It's an MMORPG with no mobs, basically. A particularly slow/crappy one too.. never saw the attraction myself.

There's not even any collision detection, so you can just fly everywhere.. there's nothing to achieve and nothing to do except maybe look at some geeks interpretation of a virtual starship enterprise.

copyright gone awry

[nanosquid (1074949)]

a Sex Gen is kind of a machine that manipulates avatars into various positions. [...] Alderman said Volkov Catteneo is not the only avatar who has done him wrong. "A lot of people copy me, copy my work, copy my ideas," he said. "Because it's an anonymous platform where you're an avatar cartoon character, as opposed to a real-life person, people think they can operate with impunity."

He's basically talking about animation files. Now, if people literally copy the bits in his animation files, that would be a copyright violation; he'd have a case. But SL makes it pretty hard to do that, and that doesn't sound like what he is complaining about.

Sounds like he is complaining about that people create animations that are "like" his, not merely his. But that basically means that he claims a copyright on the missionary position and that's not right. Copyright doesn't protect ideas, it only protects specific expressions of those ideas. And generic, common expressions aren't copyrightable either, and it seems like the missionary position is pretty generic and common.

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[syntaxglitch (889367)]

Sounds like he is complaining about that people create animations that are "like" his, not merely his. But that basically means that he claims a copyright on the missionary position and that's not right. Copyright doesn't protect ideas, it only protects specific expressions of those ideas. And generic, common expressions aren't copyrightable either, and it seems like the missionary position is pretty generic and common.

Yes, but this is sex... on the INTERNET. That makes it novel and original, right? I bet he could get a patent on the idea. I'm sure some people would make noises about "prior art", and say it's "obvious" but let's be reasonable, if "sex on the internet" was that obvious why isn't everyone else doing it?

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[merreborn (853723)]

He's basically talking about animation files. Now, if people literally copy the bits in his animation files, that would be a copyright violation; he'd have a case. But SL makes it pretty hard to do that, and that doesn't sound like what he is complaining about.

Actually, while the unmodified client makes it difficult to copy objects without permission, there have been various hacks around for years. Now that the client's been open sourced, that cat's permanently out of the bag.

If you can see it, there's *al

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[nanosquid (1074949)]

Actually, while the unmodified client makes it difficult to copy objects without permission, there have been various hacks around for years.

We're not talking about copying objects, we're talking about copying animations. And while you can do it in principle, I'm not aware of any hacks that actually make it easy. More importantly, that does not seem to be what he is complaining about because he isn't talking about people copying his data, he is complaining about people copying his "ideas". Well, there is

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[trauma (62841)]

I didn't see a specific claim in TFA regarding what exactly is being allegedly infringed, but SexGen is a lot more than animation files. It's a scripted system which combines selecting/applying animations and moving/rotating the avatars involved, all by way of a menu system built within the (rather primitive) GUI tools provided by Second Life.

Now scripted devices which provide similar functions in SL are not in and of themselves particularly novel any more; in fact there is a rather popular open-source imp

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[nanosquid (1074949)]

It's common in real life, obviously, but in the world he is voicing a complaint about, it's some proportion of novel and non-obvious.

The ability to create avatar animations is built into the system. Not only is it obvious, it's documented and exists there specifically for this purpose, with the expectation that users create, distribute, and improve life-like animations.

Copyright infringement happens when you create a derivative work from an original as well, importing many characteristics of the original.

T

Pinocchio

[Joebert (946227)]

"I'm a toy maker," Alderman explained. "I'm an erotic Geppetto."

I bet anyone who read that will never look at Pinocchio the same.

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[karnal (22275)]

My first thought was "Why you gonna go blame Pinocchio for this one?"

But then I did a double take and thought "Maybe he just means the movie as a whole..."

Yes, I'm sick.

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[Tracy Reed (3563)]

Tell a lie! Tell a lie! Yes! Yes!

Just What We Need More Of.....

[IHC Navistar (967161)]

The Old World had:

1. Lawsuits.
2. Taxes.
3. Life

So what does the New World have?

1. Virtual Lawsuits.
2. Virtual Taxes.
3. Virtual Life.

Kinda makes you wonder if people are really as stupid and detached from reality as they act.....

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[tygt (792974)]

You missed one, or maybe two:

The Old World had:
4. Death
5. ???

New (note, I only know WOW):
4. Temporary death
5. Ressurection

I don't know what scares me worse....

[pionzypher (886253)]

The fact that this is happening in the first place, or that I actually knew Stroker from a few years back, or that he's a former plumber trying to make a living selling digimawhatsits to stuff in your digimalwhoosals.

Either way, I'm going to go cry myself to sleep now.g

All your sex toys are belong to us

[syousef (465911)]

Somebody set us up the dildo!

The important thing here...

[Guppy06 (410832)]

is that selling sex toys in Second Life apparently pays more than a unionized contracting gig like plumbing.

Don't See Anything Wrong

[phalse phace (454635)]

So this guy is complaining about competition? As long as the sex toys are not exactly the same, then I see nothing wrong.

Alderman said Volkov Catteneo is not the only avatar who has done him wrong. "A lot of people copy me, copy my work, copy my ideas," he said

This is like HP complaining that Lexmark copied their work/idea about selling printers and expensive inkjet cartridges.

Someone needs to go out a get a third life.

Plumbing

[coren2000 (788204)]

I guess he is selling plumbing services of another sort.

Second life???

[pandrijeczko (588093)]

Doesn't that mean that the players have already got a (first) life?

Secondlife Copyright Lawsuit

[Stroker Serpentine (1123961)]

The articles that were being sold were digital duplicates. The plaintiff was selling them based on the popularity of our "SexGen" line. This is not a matter of competition, it is a matter of exploit and theft. All the scripts, animations and sounds were identical. We would not have brought this suit to court otherwise.

Re:Secondlife Copyright Lawsuit

[Rob T Firefly (844560)]

The articles that were being sold were digital duplicates.

"Digital duplicates" indeed... what, you were expecting analog duplicates in a digital environment? This quote alone is enough to lose you a ton of sincerity points, and brings your entire understainding of the world in which you're doing business into question.. but it's just the sort of meaningless phrase you can wave around in front of an average technophobic judge to influence the verdict.

However this comes out, though, you win several billion Silly Points for the inevitable demonstrations of stilted, awkward 3D puppet-sex to a federal judge.

Convertibility of Linden Dollars

[dunstan (97493)]

This all hinges on whether he has suffered financial loss. Linden Labs have turned this into a grey area.

On the one hand, Linden Dollars are game tokens. They have absolutely no intrinsic worth in real life, nor does Second Life "property". This means that LL have no obligations to make their systems to "trading standards", and spurious losses are not uncommon.

On the other hand, alongside third parties, LL operate and profit from a currency exchange between US and Linden dollars. They manage the market to try to maintain a stable exchange rate, meaning there is a de facto value for Linden Dollars in real life, even though it is not a currency.

IMHO, the first carries more weight, and it means that the "financial loss" premise for this action is invalid. Whatever the actions taken by the defendant, the plaintiff cannot have suffered financial loss because the "currency" in which this loss has arisen has no statutory value.

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[Provocateur (133110)]

Naaa, he should just go on Cyber Jerry Springer or Cyber Maury and present his case to the people.

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[x_MeRLiN_x (935994)]

I'm sure you might have a point if Second Life's Linden Dollars couldn't legitimately be converted to real world currency.

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[dbIII (701233)]

m sure you might have a point if Second Life's Linden Dollars couldn't legitimately be converted to real world currency.

That's the kind of greedy stupidity that has tax men worldwide trying to work out how to get money out of the other multiplayer online games as well. Creating a new currency and money moving where they cannot tax it is the sort of thing governments take seriously.

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[Kjella (173770)]

That's the kind of greedy stupidity that has tax men worldwide trying to work out how to get money out of the other multiplayer online games as well.

Look, as much as I hate taxes, if there's anything I hate more there's an unevenly applied tax. Particularly in SL where it sounds like you're actually coding new items and you get paid in a currency that's officially convertable to USD, is there any reason this should be any different than if I hire a US developer to some coding work for me, payable in NOK? If

Virtual IP, Real Money

[ancientt (569920)]

One would have to assume from TFA that the plaintif has copyright and trademarks that he feels are being infringed on. He certainly has been making real income from a real business, and feels that someone is unfairly making money off of his ideas and stealing his customers. He feels he has a right to the protection of his intellectual property, whether sold through a virtual world or not.

This might be the best case I've seen for drawing firmer lines around what is reasonably protected IP.

Can this case be extended to software patents? Certainly there are some parallels, but is there any chance that a courts ruling in this can be applied to the other issues that the industry faces?

Re:Virtual

[MightyMartian (840721)]

Wouldn't it be nice if all virtual Second Lifers would take a virtual flying leap off a virtual cliff and land on top of a virtual field full of virtual knives and were chopped into virtual pieces which were then virtually eaten by virtual aliens from the virtual planet X-Omicron-Y who had virtually arrived after being invited by a virtual President Bush who had just been virtually turned into a virtual reality clone of himself?

HELP! I'm clueless

[goombah99 (560566)]

please explain how a virtual sex toy works and how I sell one?

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[Tony Hoyle (11698)]

It's when you pretend you have a girlfriend.

Most slashdotters should be familiar with the concept...

Re:USA laws don't apply there

[sohare (1032056)]

Why should a virtual not be beholden to the laws of a specific nation? Frankly, the game is a service put out by a company and they should be, like every business, subject to the laws of the particular nation they operate out of.

What really irks me is people who try and make the case that the internet is its own reality.

US should send some aircraft carriers

[EmbeddedJanitor (597831)]

to restore law and order.

But hey, if you're in a fatasy world that gives you a fake id, participate in acts that would be illegal in many countries then why should anyone get real world pay out for fantasy world IP violations?

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[MMC Monster (602931)]

What if the owners of Second Life were to change their operations to another country. Say, one that decided that all enforced different laws about art and wished to execute not just artists, but those that supported artists in second life?

Not a good idea to support real-world laws to a digital world.

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[Dachannien (617929)]

If I get your meaning, you should note that Linden Labs is being subpoenaed, not sued. Big difference.

Re:USA laws don't apply there

[UbuntuDupe (970646)]

Actually, SL is pretty good about IP. You can imbue items with "no copy" proprties and stuff like that.

Posting from a Wii btw.

Its also in the TOS

[by Anonymous Coward]

In Second Life you own the IP for the items you create. That is made explicitly clear in the TOS. They even explain how you can send take-down notices as per the process outlined by the DMCA.

They do not, however, serve as judge and jury. IP is a legal issue, and so if you have an IP dispute you need to resolve it in court.

I read the article (weird, eh?) and I am not sure if the accused is:

1) Selling byte-for-byte duplicates with the same object name and brand name,
2) Selling byte-for-byte duplicates unde

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[GigsVT (208848)]

http://secondlife.reuters.com/media/SDOC1202.pdf [reuters.com]

You could read the court filing, instead of guessing.

He's claiming both trademark and copyright infringement. It looks like the emphasis is on the trademark, since that's a more clear cut case.

Re:USA laws don't apply there

[The Ultimate Fartkno (756456)]

Well, *shit*.

I was playing Half-Life 2 last night, so that's gonna be trouble. I could plead self-defense on all the dead Combine, and since they're not *really* people then I could probably dodge a manslaughter charge, but I shot a medic right in the head when he wouldn't get out of my way in the hall and like ten people saw it. Better get Robert Blake's lawyer on speed dial...

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[Don_dumb (927108)]

I hope to god that Jack Thompson doesn't read that post. Who knows what damage he could do with a quote.

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[Amouth (879122)]

could someone make a living selling sex toys to imaginary people

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[Amouth (879122)]

it was ment to be funny to the parent's "only in america"

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[The Only Druid (587299)]

You're right, it's far more legitimate to sell non-sexual simulations (e.g. typical video games) than to sell sexual simulations. There is clearly something this guy should be ashamed of in the fact that his video games involve sex, whereas Epic's and Id's games don't.

And yes, I'm fully aware Second Life isn't really a game: my point is that the sex-simulators he's selling are, themselves, games.

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[syntaxglitch (889367)]

You're right, it's far more legitimate to sell non-sexual simulations (e.g. typical video games) than to sell sexual simulations. There is clearly something this guy should be ashamed of in the fact that his video games involve sex, whereas Epic's and Id's games don't.

To be fair, from what I've heard most regular game programmers don't have much in the way of a life, either... :) (especially ones working for EA)

Besides, it's more likely this guy's CUSTOMERS that need a first life.

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[suv4x4 (956391)]

"having a (first) life should be made mandatory."

But then what would become of Slashdot?

A dating site.

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[Firehawke (50498)]

It already exists. It's called account banning.

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[Tony Hoyle (11698)]

That would be funny.. of course such a thing is impossible since you can't force a virtual character to do anything (and they're just pixels anyway). There would be lots of press of course and Jack Thomson would call for it to be banned..

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[yoyoofthemilk (914207)]

Belgian police patrols Second Life to prevent rape [secondlifeinsider.com]