Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments
Search

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Texas Makes Green Computing Mandatory

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Mon Jun 11, 2007 05:17 PM
from the cheaper-materials-only-a-signature-away dept.
Government The Courts News Technology
athloi writes to mention that Texas legislators have passed a bill that would require computer companies to provide free recycling services to their customers for hardware purchased. "The bill (HB 2714) requires computer manufacturers to provide a "reasonably convenient" recycling plan that requires no additional payments from consumers. Dell and HP provided some model legislation that was used as the basis for the bill, which will only affect computers purchased for personal or home business use, but it could still encourage manufacturers to adopt efficient recycling programs that might then be applied to all machines sold."
+ -
story

Related Stories

[+] Science: New Technique for Recycling PCBs 77 comments
MattSparkes writes "PCBs from discarded computers, cellphones and other devices could be recycled less harmfully using a technique developed by researchers in China. Unlike current methods, it can be used to reclaim metals such as copper without releasing toxic fumes into the air. Only a small numbers of PCBs are currently recycled."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.

Texas Makes Green Computing Mandatory 50 Comments More /

 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.

  • No additional payments from consumers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by biocute (936687) on Monday June 11 2007, @05:21PM (#19471427) Homepage
    I guess that just means prices for new computers will go up $50 or so, and recycling services are, as promised, free.

    Companies might even see a better profit margin unless recycling is also forced upon consumers.

    • Dell charges $0, and they're still cheap (Score:4, Interesting)

      by schwaang (667808) on Monday June 11 2007, @05:30PM (#19471591)
      Dell's recycling option is offered for free. They give you mailing labels to send your old computer and monitor via DHL or something.

      I don't know how much it actually costs Dell (obviously more than they charge), but so far Dell still has very low prices.

      I can see why Dell would help force this on the competition... But in the end it's probably net positive for everybody.
      • It has to become garbage somewhere.

        I've sent hundreds of old computers, monitors, and printers to a local recyclying place. They said that this stuff gets stuck on a pallet and shpped to India and Bangladesh where it gets dissassembled and processed.

        Interesting thing is that no inkjet printers were allowed to be dropped off as the dissassembly is too difficult and not enough of a particular model has been available for them to become proficient in dissassembly.

        I just can't imagine that millions of 540mb HD

        • Re:Dell charges $0, and they're still cheap (Score:4, Informative)

          by schwaang (667808) on Monday June 11 2007, @06:19PM (#19472075)

          It has to become garbage somewhere.


          Yes, maybe at first. But Germany has a law that requires manufacturers to take things back for disposal. I think Japan has something similar. It is expected that manufacturers will as a result modify their designs to make disposal or reuse cheaper for themselves. The hope is that this means cutting down on the variety of different chemicals used, and substituting non-toxics where possible.

          There is also a notion called Cradle to Cradle [wikipedia.org] which is gaining ground.

          So this Texas law could be the US starting to play catch-up.

          There is also increasing awareness of the enviro-dumping you mention on the part of developed countries in India, China, Vietnam, etc.

          It's a step-by-step process to fix this mess.
          • It's easy for Germany to have a feel good law about their own domestic manufacturing, because the bulk of that nation's income is from exports. How about we start sending all of our trash from German made exports to the USA back to Germany?

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by daeg (828071)
          I doubt many things are recycled wholesale. Instead, they are taken apart by cheap laborers and machines and sorted into material types. For instance, melting all plastics down can create a cheap source of low-grade plastic suitable for things like residential drainage pipes, plastic mesh, non-fire retardant insulation, etc. Metal can be processed using the same metal processing that normal recyclers use after the more valuable pieces are removed. Ceramics, silicone, rubber, and glass can be crushed/melted

      • Re:Dell charges $0, and they're still cheap (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Nimey (114278) on Monday June 11 2007, @06:19PM (#19472069) Homepage Journal

        Dell's recycling option is offered for free.


        TANSTAAFL. The money for that's coming from somewhere, just as a hotel's "free" breakfast is.
      • I have no links to this (too lazy) but I have read/heard/saw on TV that it's cheaper/easier to get the gold and other metals out of old electronics than to mine. I have no idea how much the metal in a typical PC would be worth but perhaps enough to help cover the shipping costs back to Dell or wherever Dell is having them shipped?

        The point that I'm making is that it really doesn't (maybe) cost Dell anything, all things considered, to recycle these PCs.

        • The point that I'm making is that it really doesn't (maybe) cost Dell anything, all things considered, to recycle these PCs.


          I don't have any actual data on this, but I strongly suspect it *does* cost Dell something, and that's part of why they helped to write the Texas legislation -- so that their competitors will have to pay too.

          (If they could make much money doing it, why is it hard to find places that will recycle computers for free?)

    • Bingo.

      We should always scrutinize things a bit more carefully when it is the corporations that help draft the legislation. They aren't going to help create laws that diminish their profits. They must simply be betting that fewer consumers will use the service than buy new PCs. The media industry "helped" revamp our copyright law and that brought us the DMCA.

      Somebody ought to give you that 5th mod point.

    • Just a thought, but people could request to purchase Keyboards without the 'W'?
  • Remarkable. Not for the initiative itself, which is perfectly ordinary common sense, but from where it comes from. Reminds me of the time my grandad's pig played the violin. We all clapped and shouted hooray, not because the pig was any good, but because he could do it at all.
      • Hey, we *need* those plants to provide surplus generation capacity for the next time there's money to be made taking a plant (or five) offline in California and then selling them our electricity at triple the market rate!
        • Good, I'm glad! I hope Texas (my state) fucks over Cali for being retarded enough not to build more power plants.

          Repeat after me. Environmentalism and Economies HATE each other. You can't have one without messing up the other! Cali made their choice to be "Green". Now they can reap what they sow.
          • From what I read, the California energy situation had more to do with Enron than with poor planning. When we've privatized something the public absolutely has to have and scarcity is profitable, scarcity is what you get. By design.

          • Environmentalism and Economies HATE each other.
            I am so sick of this argument. It's the Republican party line and it is very shortsighted. Environmentalism only hates economics if:
            1) The environmentalism is environmental wacko ("Wind power? Those towers are ugly!")
            2) Your competitors invest in technology but you don't

            One of the problem the U.S. has is that we decided not to invest in battery/hybrid/flex fuel vehicles because it was considered too expensive. That would only have been a sound economic decision if everyone else made the same decision. But Japan did. So now, the only battery/hybrid/flex fuel vehicles are made outside the U.S. and U.S. auto-makers are scrambling to catch-up or they go out of business. This is a case where environmentalism and economies were 100% in line.

            Same goes with power plants. You can't regulate power prices and refuse to build new power plants. That has nothing to do with environmentalism, it's just a stupid economic decision. And now that oil prices are on the rise, we see that building other forms of power plants is not only environmentally friend, but it is also becoming economical.

            This isn't a case where California made the choice to be "green" -- it is a case where California, like much of the U.S. chose not to be green, and they are paying the price. But at least they don't have those ugly wind farms blocking the beautiful views.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Abcd1234 (188840)
            Bullshit. The reality, for those curious, is that captive markets + deregulation and consumers hate each other. The energy debacle in Cali had one single root cause: deregulation. It's just that simple. Good like finding a republican who will admit *that*, though...
  • What's dell going to do, have people ship them old computers? Ya, that'll be real cheap.

    This is one of those places where you should tax something and have the government provide the service. There are definitely going to be economies of scale.

    The Province of Alberta (Canada) already has a program where there is a small fee when you buy a computer and then they recycle old computers for free. You just take the computer to a local depot:

    http://www3.gov.ab.ca/env/waste/ewaste/index.html [gov.ab.ca]
    • Dell has an agreement with Goodwill so that computers can be dropped off at Goodwill donation sites to be recycled.

      It started here in Austin in 2004, but now I see that they've expanded it to several more states. See the Dell recycling website [reconnectpartnership.com].

  • What about other appliances? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Firethorn (177587) on Monday June 11 2007, @05:29PM (#19471559) Homepage Journal
    Why single out computers?

    I mean, what about all the other appliances that tend to hit landfills, such as refridgerators, dishwashers, washers&dryers, televisions, radios, etc...?

    With the newer controls and electronics many of these contain, I would tend to argue that there aren't any materials found in computers that aren't in these.

    I think that Dell's got a cheap recycling program figured out(ship them to china?), and is trying to use this to muscle out the competition, which can't arrange disposal of old machines as easily.

    Then there's the whole issue of what happens if the retailer is out of business when the customer goes to recycle his or her computer...

    • Re:What about other appliances? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by truckaxle (883149) on Monday June 11 2007, @05:56PM (#19471851) Homepage

      I mean, what about all the other appliances that tend to hit landfills, such as refridgerators, dishwashers, washers&dryers, televisions, radios, etc...?


      Right on.

      I always thought a good policy would be to have manufactures put a recycling fee into an escrow account (that earns a nominal interest for the manufacture) at the time of sale to large resource intensive consumer goods like computers, refrigerators, stoves, etc.

      The product would have a bar code and whenever the registered local landfill or recycling depot receives the disposed product they scan the bar code and are credited for the recycling fee from the escrow account.

      This has the following benefits....

      • Places the burden of disposal up front with the purchase of the product. This is fair economics as it places the burden on those who benefit from the product (both sale and use) .

      • Source of income (instead of burden) for local landfill/recycling depots and could favor recycling.

      • Encourage manufactures to build long lived products and to support products with *replacement parts* since the longer the product remains in service the more interest the manufactures earns. This is my favorite benefit, as I have thrown away Would generate real-world statistics on product longevity and reward manufactures for building quality. If a manufactures builds a lemon like a GE Refrigerator I had, this statistics would be public accessible knowledge and maybe even support class-action suits.


    • I think that Dell's got a cheap recycling program figured out (ship them to china?)

      Probably. [slashdot.org]

    • Actually, there was a significant push [austinchronicle.com] to get the Legislature to get them to put other appliances in as well:

      "[Activists] were pushing for a provision to require television manufacturers selling products in Texas to take back and recycle customers' old televisions, to be added to ... Republican Dennis Bonnen's widely popular House Bill 2714, and its identical Senate companion, Kirk Watson's Senate Bill 1324, which establish statewide take-back standards for computers, monitors, and laptops, at the behest
      • I'll just use my parents as an example: In the time it's taken for them to go through a computer they've also replaced the dishwasher, hot water heater, television, and sofa. My grandparents went through two televisions.

        Some people replace quicker, but many don't.

        While the others aren't replaced as quickly, I'd guess that a single refridgerator replacement would still outweigh a dozen computers*. Figure an average of 3 years between computers, you'd still be throwing away more refridgerator if you only r

  • Smaller System Builders? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Pantero Blanco (792776) on Monday June 11 2007, @05:29PM (#19471563)
    Are smaller system builders considered "manufacturers"? That would explain why the bill got so much support from HP and Dell; it raises the cost of doing business.

  • Corporations writing laws? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Stiletto (12066) on Monday June 11 2007, @05:34PM (#19471633) Homepage
    Dell and HP provided some model legislation that was used as the basis for the bill

    I'm not naive--I know it happens all the time, but I still get the shivers every time I read things like this. Am I the only one uncomfortable with the concept of corporations drafting laws?

    I wonder what our country's founding fathers would have thought of the newspapers of their time reporting "This bill, drafted by the Honourable East India Company, and passed by Congress..."
    • That's pretty much how it works these days. The corporation writes the bill, then hires lobbyists to make sure it passes through Congress. Other corporations may then hire other congress people to attach irrelevant riders to these bills authorizing various pork barrel projects. If a lobbyist encounters a congress person who is not willing and eager to go along, they may need to take that congress person on a "fact finding mission" to a Caribbean resort in order to persuade them with various perks. If th
    • To an extent, I'd hope that the EITC was invovled in the drafting of a bill that would affect it directly. Otherwise you get legislatures passing stupid stuff that'll cripple business.

      It's when the business writes the entire draft that you have to be concerned. This sounds scary, at least to me.

      I figure that Dell&HP think that they can handle the recycling costs cheaper than other manufacturers and that this will give them an advantage over other companies.

      That, or that by getting this passed they won
    • I'm not naive--I know it happens all the time, but I still get the shivers every time I read things like this. Am I the only one uncomfortable with the concept of corporations drafting laws?

      It's either companies in the businesses affected writing them or, "The internet isn't a truck, it's a series of tube" Congresscritters.

      Personally, I'd rather have the businesses.

      • It's either companies in the businesses affected writing them or, "The internet isn't a truck, it's a series of tube" Congresscritters.

        Many of the times "Congresscritters" say stupid things that get them mocked by people who understand the subject, its not because they are particularly ignorant, but rather because they are trying to throw up a wall of obfuscation around the position they are carrying on behalf of industry, because they aren't interested in people paying attention to and understanding the su

    • I'm not naive--I know it happens all the time, but I still get the shivers every time I read things like this. Am I the only one uncomfortable with the concept of corporations drafting laws?

      Certainly not.

      I wonder what our country's founding fathers would have thought of the newspapers of their time reporting "This bill, drafted by the Honourable East India Company, and passed by Congress..."

      Our founding fathers were probably used to commercial interests drafting laws and lobbying for them, and probably used

  • No such thing as free (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nurb432 (527695) on Monday June 11 2007, @05:49PM (#19471783) Homepage Journal
    The cost will just be passed along to the consumer.
    • Just dump it and don't pay now. Pass the environmental costs on to our children etc.

      Remember folks, we don't own the world. We're just borrowing it from our children.

      • You are making the assumption that people will actually take advantage of this. It's much more likely that most people will continue as they are doing and everyone will still have to pay for it, used or not.
  • ...are soon found working at their offices with green hair dye, green cloths and similarly colored keyboards and mice.

  • A couple of points for the easily deceived:
    • "Free" as in YOU pay for it at the time of purchase.
    • If the company you bought the hardware from goes out of business I assume you end up paying for a service you never get.
    • You pay long before you receive the service. Right now recycling of that nature is expensive but will probably become cheaper. You however get the early adopter mega fee!
    • Suppose you find an outfit willing to pay you to recycle your hardware? Now your "free" recycling fee is just an un
  • Okay, if you provide a recycling option for your old 'puta ONLY if you buy a new one, that could get sticky. What if you buy a new system as separate parts from different retailers? Neither individual purchase constitutes a "computer", but I'm still going to have an old system to recycle.
  • So how long before people start showing up with truckfuls of circa 1999 servers and claim they're all from their home-based business? In the town where I work they offer free paper recycling for personal and home business use. But invariably the bin is stuffed with paper that is obviously from neither of those sources (i.e. baled and bound paper shreddings, industrially die cut waste).
  • And a bunch of other states as well, supporting such a wonderful [bbc.co.uk] industry.

  • Let's see...

    250GB drive..
    250GB drive..
    250GB drive..
    100GB drive..
    60 GB drive..
    50 GB drive..
    40 GB drive..

    Unheard of storage at an unbeatable price!
  • I recently changed my recycling policy here in Texas with my computers. Until a month ago it was I upgraded, then my room mate upgraded with my old parts, then the living room emu/movie/etc pc got upgraded, etc with the parts. at the very end the left over stuff was sat 100 yards from back of the house and shot with a 22-250 (rifle)..
    now we added an extra step where my room mate upgrades another friend ;) But we are considering making the chain long enough so the parts finally end up in Russia and in excha
  • ... crunched up computer electronics contains a lot more precious metals than the ore that originated the metals... they should be paying the individuals disposing the stuff....
    • Not if you read the headline as: "Texas raises barrier to entry for competitors of Dell and HP."

      Notice how it does not affect business buyers, where the large players are already protected by a high barrier to entry.

      • Re: Texas does something progressive (Score:5, Insightful)

        by adrianmonk (890071) on Monday June 11 2007, @08:01PM (#19472907)

        Not if you read the headline as: "Texas raises barrier to entry for competitors of Dell and HP."

        I hate to be cynical, but living in Texas, I know how things work here, and that is the most likely explanation. Texas government is about as business-friendly as it gets (that's regarded as a virtue around here by many people). Plus, you should ask yourself where Dell is headquartered, and the answer is Texas. Then you should also ask yourself where Compaq was headquartered before HP bought them, and the answer is also Texas. So, the world's two largest PC manufacturers have a big presence in Texas, and "coincidentally" those two companies just got the Texas legislature to pass a bill that makes life hard for their competitors.

        Coincidentally, AMD and Intel also have a huge presence here in Austin, the capital city of Texas, and I guess they could've/should've opposed this on the grounds that stifling competition is bad for the industry, but there is no chance they would've for two reasons: fear of pissing off Dell and HP, and fear of looking like they're anti-environment.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by kabocox (199019)
          Coincidentally, AMD and Intel also have a huge presence here in Austin, the capital city of Texas, and I guess they could've/should've opposed this on the grounds that stifling competition is bad for the industry, but there is no chance they would've for two reasons: fear of pissing off Dell and HP, and fear of looking like they're anti-environment.

          How is forcing everyone in the state to pay a little bit more for a product automatically favoring HP or Dell? I don't see why AMD or Intel should complain at al

      • Re:Frist Psot (Score:4, Insightful)

        by eviloverlordx (99809) on Monday June 11 2007, @05:27PM (#19471533)
        No, this is just more unconstitutional eco-fascism.

        You're welcome to argue this in front of the Supreme Court. I'm sure they'll hear your case in a few hundred years.
      • You say tomato and I say tamato, tomato, tamato, let's call the whole thing off...

        That's a joke BTW son and a riff on an old show tune, I bet you didn't know that... :)

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Short Circuit (52384)

        No, this is just more unconstitutional eco-fascism.
        That's funny. I see it as the Texas legislature forcing manufacturers to explore a new revenue stream.

        You see, PC recycling is a profitable business, once you get away from CRTs. I've found at least three places in West Michigan that will pay me cash for old computer hardware.

    • All I can see initiatives like this amounting to is that Dell will whisk away the old box before anybody can think of a way to use it. Out of sight, out of mind, and nobody engages in the dangerous and subversive activity of putting a non-Microsoft OS on it.

      So, start a Free Geek [freegeek.org] chapter and make a deal with the computer shops to handle their recycling for them.

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2009 Geeknet, Inc.