Can Outing an Anonymous Blogger be Justified?

netbuzz writes "Absolutely, depending on the circumstances, yet a Florida newspaper's attempt to unmask 'a political group hiding behind the name of a fictitious person' has sparked outrage in some circles. Part of the reason for that outrage is that the paper posted to its Web site a surveillance video of the blogger visiting its advertising department, a tactic the editor says he now regrets. What's really at issue here is the right to publish anonymously vs. the right to remain anonymous. The former exists, the latter does not."

Does not, eh?

[Qzukk (229616)]

What's really at issue here is the right to publish anonymously vs. the right to remain anonymous. The former exists, the latter does not.

Is that like how the Constitution provides specific grounds for revoking habeas corpus, but it's OK if the government ignores it because you don't have the right in the first place?

How can one claim that someone has the right to "publish anonymously" if a person cannot be anonymous?

Re:Does not, eh?

[dreamchaser (49529)]

Actually, neither 'right' with regards to anonymnity is enumerated in the Constitution, nor is any right to privacy outside of unlawful searches.

Re:Does not, eh?

[by Anonymous Coward]

And they're not required to be!

* Ninth Amendment - Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights.
        The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Re:Does not, eh?

[k_187 (61692)]

No, I disagree. The constitution does not give us our rights. We, as humans, have natural rights endowed from wherever it is that we came from. The listing of specific rights in the Bill of Rights and elsewhere in the Constitution does not limit our natural rights to what is listed. Remember, the Bill of Rights was added because some states were not willing to sign on without explicit enumeration of some of those natural rights. Originally, Madison didn't believe the Bill of Rights necessary. Thus, the question really isn't "does the constitution grant us these rights?", but "is this a right that already existed, but has not yet been enumerated?"

Re:Does not, eh?

[kclittle (625128)]

You have a right to obey causality. You have a right to obey gravity. You have a right to keep your velocity under the speed of light at all times. You have a right to conserve energy/mass.

These and their like are the only "natural" rights "endowed" upon you by the universe -- in fact, they are *forced* upon you.

Any other supposed rights (freedom of speech, freedom to vote, freedom to chase girls, a.k.a. freedom to pursue happiness) are fictions created by the mind of man as he negotiates his way in the company of other humans.

Now, I certainly enjoy having these rights (especially the one about chasing girls), but I'm under no illusion that they exist in nature external to homo sap.

Re:Does not, eh?

[Oonushi (863093)]

You have the ability to say "No" (or to silently resists if you happen to be mute) to anyone who tries to deny you those rights that you claim are "created in the mind of man". The Constitution and the Bill of Rights simply tell the government where they do and don't have authority over its citizens, who in turn agree to submit themselves to that authority.

Your ability to resist imposed authority is as natural as the law of gravity, therefore the only time your rights don't naturally exist, is when you don't defend them.

Re:Does not, eh?

[osu-neko (2604)]

What evidence or reasoning supports this?

The framers of the constitution believed that this was a "self-evident" fact -- something that would be understood to be true by any reasonable person upon considered reflection, requiring no evidence beyond that.

Now, that's a rather controversial idea. But, whether we accept the existence of self-evident facts or not, it remains true that the U.S. Constitution was written by people who specifically did believe that rights were not granted by government. Rather, that rights are inherent in persons by their very nature. A government can, in this view, protect your rights, ignore your rights, or even infringe upon your rights. But it can't possibly grant you any rights nor remove any rights from you, since that's not something within the power of government. Government is just a collection of people, with no ability to make fundamental changes to human nature by fiat. To assume otherwise is to assume collections of people are somehow able to wield god-like powers simply by virtue of acting collectively, and that's absurd.

So, whether one accepts this premise or not, one needs to read the Constitution with the understand that it was written with this point of view in mind, and needs to be interpreted accordingly.

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

you can't ues your right to bear arms to take my right to life

Unless you mean that seeing someone with a gun causes you to keel over and die, I'd think it's you with the non sequitur here.

Good try though.

It is clear from the writings of the founding fathers that what he quoted does not mean "that other rights retained by the people cannot be trampled on inadvertently by the rights enumerated". It is clear that they wrote the Ninth and Tenth Amendments in order to indicate that A) the rights of people enume

Re:Does not, eh?

[Gorobei (127755)]

That is not what the ninth amendment says, nor does it reflect the intent of the writers.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Pretty simple: sounds like unnamed rights are not to denied or weakened because other rights were explicitly enumerated in the Constitution.

Lets see if that was the intent of the writers. Madison:

It has been objected also against a Bill of Rights, that, by enumerating particular exceptions to the grant of power, it would disparage those rights which were not placed in that enumeration; and it might follow by implication, that those rights which were not singled out, were intended to be assigned into the hands of the General Government, and were consequently insecure. This is one of the most plausible arguments I have ever heard against the admission of a bill of rights into this system; but, I conceive, that it may be guarded against. I have attempted it, as gentlemen may see by turning to the last clause of the fourth resolution.

Hmm, he agrees with the orignal poster, not you.

Hamilton?

The exceptions here or elsewhere in the constitution, made in favor of particular rights, shall not be so construed as to diminish the just importance of other rights retained by the people; or as to enlarge the powers delegated by the constitution; but either as actual limitations of such powers, or as inserted merely for greater caution.

Wow, he agrees with the original poster too.

Re:Does not, eh?

[Dun Malg (230075)]

Non sequiter. What you quote means that other rights retained by the people cannot be trampled on inadvertently by the rights enumerated. In other words, you can't ues your right to bear arms to take my right to life (except in self defense).

Good try though.

No, you're an idiot. If you actually knew anything about the history of the bill of rights, you'd know that the 9th was a concession to Hamilton and others, who believed that a bill of rights was unwise:

"I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and in the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers which are not granted; and on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do?" -Hamilton, Alexander. The Federalist Papers, #84. "On opposition to a Bill of Rights."

The 9th (and 10th, for that matter) was included to address Hamilton's specific issues. But let us read the 9th amendment itself, and deduce its meaning based on what it actually says:

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

See, I don't know where you get the hare-brained idea that the 9th has something to do with enumerated rights trumping one another. It very fucking clearly says what it means. Allow me to paraphrase:

"The fact that we chose to write down a Top Ten List of rights does not in any way imply that the people do not retain a multitude of other rights"

I'd sure love to see you cite a source for your laughable interpretation of the 9th Amendment. The 9th has been routinely ignored by many, but no sane person has ever claimed it meant other than what it says.

Re:Does not, eh?

[penix1 (722987)]

I'd sure love to see you cite a source for your laughable interpretation of the 9th Amendment. The 9th has been routinely ignored by many, but no sane person has ever claimed it meant other than what it says.

There is a source for that interpretation. The sad fact is it comes from the lead attorney for the United States.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/19/gonzales-habea s/ [thinkprogress.org]

Of course, it isn't correct but shows that the man should never have been confirmed.

B.

What right to life?

[sheldon (2322)]

I see no Right to Life specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

Re:

[penix1 (722987)]

You are correct that there is no "right to life" enumeration in the Constitution. However, there is one in the Declaration of Independence. Add that to the 9th Amendment and you do have a right to life. The founders were religious men and these documents reflect that. The right to life was enumerated as one of their main reasons to sever the ties to England. They believed the right to life was granted by a higher power so its enumeration to the Constitution was unnecessary besides being already covered in t

Re:Does not, eh?

[FutureDomain (1073116)]

The Constitution protects the "Freedom of the Press", but not the "Freedom of Anonymity of the Press". There are steps you can take if you want to remain anonymous, but no laws preventing someone from outing a blogger who doesn't keep his identity a well-kept secret.

Re:

[$RANDOMLUSER (804576)]

And yet, at the time of the writing of the Constitution, publishing under psuedonyms was common practice, even by the Founding Fathers.

Re:

[kclittle (625128)]

So? That doesn't mean they felt they had a "right" to remain anonymous, as is evidenced by the fact that those same Founding Fathers did not see it appropriate to include said "right" as an 11th Amendment in the Bill of Rights.

Re:

[kclittle (625128)]

Yeah, cause the only rights we have are the ones specifically enumerated in the constitution, right?

Nope, not at all. But such "other" rights, if claimed, have to be proven through the legal system (this thread is about legal rights). IANAL, but no U.S. court that I know of has ever ruled that a writer/blogger/pundit has the right to remain anonymous.

Re:Does not, eh?

[ronanbear (924575)]

And yet the paper would argue that it's allowed to protect its sources. You can't have it both ways privacy is not a privilege that may be conferred by a newspapers whim.

Either the press has the freedom that allows it to publish anonymous sources or it doesn't. If they have the right they should have respected the bloggers rights.

Re:

[kclittle (625128)]

The right of a journalist to protect his/her sources has no bearing on the right of a source to expect/demand protection, either from the journalist or a third party. There is *no* right to remain anonymous.

Re:Does not, eh?

[TubeSteak (669689)]

And yet the paper would argue that it's allowed to protect its sources.

Most States have laws that allow journalists to protect their anonymous sources.
Note: There is no similar Federal Law.

You can't have it both ways privacy is not a privilege that may be conferred by a newspapers whim

I'm not sure what you mean by that. If the newspapers find out your secret... then you're subject to their whim.

Either the press has the freedom that allows it to publish anonymous sources or it doesn't.

They do, at the state level.

If they have the right they should have respected the bloggers rights.

What right did he have? The right to publish anonymously?
He used it.

You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding the right to publish anonymously. All it means is that the Government can't make anonymous publishing a crime. What it doesn't mean is that no one is allowed to figure out who you are and tell the world.

Staying anonymous was the bloggers job.
What legal obligation did the newspaper have to keep his identity a secret?

Re:

[DeadChobi (740395)]

I agree with you.

I would like to add that it was probably unethical to use a video surveillance tape to attempt to out the blogger when that was not the purpose of the tape. There's a difference between setting up a camera for the express purpose of identifying your customers and setting up a camera to keep your advertising department safe. He wasn't informed that he was being taped for the purpose of outing him. It's reasonable for me to assume that unless there's some pressing criminal investigation that

Re:

[AlanS2002 (580378)]

Actually, neither 'right' with regards to anonymnity is enumerated in the Constitution, nor is any right to privacy outside of unlawful searches.

The US constitution is neither the first nor the last word on what can be spoken of as rights, if you submit to being able to have a meaningful conversation of such things in the first place.

Re:Does not, eh?

[John Hasler (414242)]

> Is that like how the Constitution provides specific grounds for revoking habeas corpus,
> but it's OK if the government ignores it because you don't have the right in the first
> place?

No. Aside from the fact that you do have the right to habeas corpus, this has nothing to do with the government at all.

> How can one claim that someone has the right to "publish anonymously" if a person cannot
> be anonymous?

You have the right to "publish anonymously". You have the right to be anonymous. However, no one is obligated to help you be anonymous. It's up to you to keep your identity secret. If you screw up and your secret gets out, tough.

I wouldn't do business with a paper that publishes surveillance videos of its customers, though.

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

There is no requirement to identify yourself when you publish. That is "the right to publish anonymously". It is not a guarantee: You can't say "this is not to be linked to me" and expect someone else (like the government) to make sure that it isn't. If you want to stay anonymous, it is your responsibility, hence no right to remain anonymous.

Re:Does not, eh?

[FooAtWFU (699187)]

It's still pretty rude (or worse) for the newspaper in question to do something like this, whether it's a violation of some sort of intrinsic civil liberty / constitutional right / etc or otherwise. Therein lies the rub. Not everything has to be some sort of civil liberties violation or against the law for it to be the Wrong Thing to Do.

Re:

[sugapablo (600023)]

Plenty of places where people can post anonymously. Lots of Anonymous Cowards here. :)

Plenty of public machines and IP addresses where you can post to anonymous message boards and editable pages like http://subuse.net/ [subuse.net] and http://subuse.net/level2 [subuse.net]

Isn't their take bass-ackwards?

[siglercm (6059)]

What's really at issue here is the right to publish anonymously vs. the right to remain anonymous. The former exists, the latter does not.

It seems to me that their conclusion is, logically, the wrong way around. IMHO, we all have the right to remain anonymous. However, if we want to publish we may give up that right. Publishing is totally different from being an anonymous source of information, quoted in a publication.

Or am I off my rocker?

Re:

[AlanS2002 (580378)]

My thoughts exactly. Do we not, by publishing something in the public domain, by definition invite a lack of anonymity?

Re:

[ScrewMaster (602015)]

Only if you piss off the wrong people.

The problem is not so much that veil of anonymity can be pierced, but that the government has, in the midst of its own quest to make our private lives a thing of the past, provided would-be piercers with way too much ammunition.

Im sorry but

[Creepy Crawler (680178)]

When I think of "anonymous bloggers", I get this image [penny-arcade.com].

Or, I recall that "Multiple Theology Degree, exquisite super-intelligentsia" Essjay [wikipedia.org]. Oh, thats right.. He's a redneck hick who lives about 80 Mi south of me (Louisville, KY).

Anybody can say whatever they want, but due to the "Credibility" of the internet, it usually means something is going to be believed. Not good, as most people haven't the logic or intelligence to discern real from fiction.

Can Outing an Anonymous Blogger be Justified?

[toupsie (88295)]

Absolutely. Journalism should not be the art of protecting secrets. The first amendment right to a free press does not have a caveat that states that people with hidden agendas are protected from exposure. As long as this is not a government mandated revelation of secrecy of a citizen, there is no issue at hand. The press has a right and I feel a duty to expose all that want to be a part of the public debate both for and against what I personally believe. The only reason the editor feels that this was a bad choice is that he doesn't have the requisite reproductive organs to stand up for what they did which was good reporting. There is no right to anonymity when to start to engage in the public debate. If you can maintain it, that is through your own efforts and not through some Constitutional mechanism.

Re:

[ceoyoyo (59147)]

I'm thinking of the cases where corporations have been posing as bloggers to promote their products. Undoubtedly a case where revealing them is justified.

This sounds very similar. A political group posing as an individual? Please. They're misrepresenting themselves and then they get mad when someone calls them on it?

Re:

[MrSteveSD (801820)]

Surely the ability for people to address the public anonymously is beneficial and should be protected. e.g. Anonymous whistle-blowers.

Re:

[toupsie (88295)]

Surely the ability for people to address the public anonymously is beneficial and should be protected. e.g. Anonymous whistle-blowers.

So we are going to create a protected class of citizens that can infringe on the first amendment rights of others? Who gets to decide who can maintain a protected state of anonymity? This is bad policy. Sunshine is always the best environment for speech.

Re:

[polar red (215081)]

Yes, if you are not in danger of being prosecuted for your opinions. Try saying the war in Iraq is unjustified, you'll get your dose of hatred, isn't it so, dixie chicks ?

Re:

[gclef (96311)]

The constitution does not exist to protect you from the hatred of others. You are free to speak your mind. So are the people who disagree with you. This is how it should be.

Whistleblowers and informants are a case where the privacy of a source should be protected by the government officials that they are working with, but that is not a constitutional right. Again, this is how it should be. Whistleblower's treatment need to be balanced against the rights of the accused. An incredibly important right i

Re:

[AlanS2002 (580378)]

Does that include journalistic sources? If someone were to follow up on Woodward and Bernstein and expose "Deep Throat", would that be fine by you? After all, he had his secret agenda as well... (Anger at not being promoted to be head of FBI after Hoover left).

He might very well of had an agenda, but he did not publish. That took a decision or not of a journalist.

You bet!

[toupsie (88295)]

Does that include journalistic sources? If someone were to follow up on Woodward and Bernstein and expose "Deep Throat", would that be fine by you? After all, he had his secret agenda as well... (Anger at not being promoted to be head of FBI after Hoover left).

Damn skippy it would! The country spent nearly 35 years trying to figure that Deep Throat was William Mark Felt, Sr. Every journalist interested in Washington politics wasn on the hunt for the identity of the real Deep Throat. Journalists that keep secrets from the public are betraying their audience. Sometimes the audience puts up with it like in the case of Deep Throat.

-1, poor style

[pla (258480)]

Can Outing an Anonymous Blogger be Justified?
Absolutely, depending on the circumstances

No editorial slant on this FP, no-sir-ee!

Many of our fundamental "rights" in the modern world very much depend on not only having anonymity before doing something, but after as well.

In particular, and I expect the FP author had this exact situation in mind, when the exercise of speech/publishing relates to the commission of a crime. But in all but a few situations (defamation or lying to a grand jury come to mind), the crime and the speech exist as entirely separate concepts, with the latter protected.

Even when the speech does break the law directly (defamation), you need to consider how much credibility an anonymous source really has. If I say "The PS3 sucks", I may have defamed Sony, but no one will care. If US VP of marketing for SCEA says the same thing, it would make headlines (at least in the geek news community).

If I cheat on my taxes, that breaks the law. If I brag about it anonymously - The bragging doesn't break the law, and I have every right to maintain my anonymity in the bragging. If the IRS catches me for the crime itself, no foul; If they hunt me down like a dog and then find out I just bragged but have filed accurately, they have wasted time and money and potentially injured me financially or reputation-wise in the process, despite no actual crime occuring.



Anonymity has a dark side, but without an absolute right to it, we may as well let the government install "The Eye" in our living rooms right now.

Never has been absolute

[Excelcia (906188)]

There never, ever, has been an absolute right to anonymity. The day people have that right, is the day that society will cease to exist.

Society exists because of law and peer pressure to conform to its rules. Where anonimity is guaranteed, peer pressure cannot exist, and law cannot be enforced.

There are restrictions on what government can do to invade your privacy, but privacy and anonimity are two different things. In fulfilling its duties to you, government necesarily has a lot of information abo

You keep using that word "absolutely"

[Gothmolly (148874)]

I do not think it means what you think it means.

So it can "absolutely" be justified, yet it is also "depending on the circumstances".

Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.

Why is it obvious/implicit that you don't have the right to remain anonymous, save in a society where you have no rights?

Newspapers' Job is to Expose

[Doc Ruby (173196)]

What makes anonymity sacrosanct? Someone does something to be anonymous, their perogative. If someone else does something to expose their identity, that's their perogative, too. If what they do to expose them isn't itself wrong, then they haven't done anything wrong. If they use public info (eg. cameras recording public appearances) and deduction, there's not wrong. The exposed anonymous might not like it, but there's no intrinsic, universal right to anonymity just because they want it. And in fact exposing hidden players in public acts is the primary responsibility of newspapers and other periodical publishers.

I wish there were a lot more outrage about newspapers keeping some people anonymous. Anonymous sources used to spin news, lie to damage coverage and public knowledge. When the source isn't actually anonymous at all, to the reporter (or their editors), but is anonymized by the newspaper, creating more ignorance rather than more knowledge. Especially when that anonymity makes unaccountable some people who are reliably wrong, lying, or just predictably spinning.

Newspapers have a glorious future working to expose trolls in our new mediasphere full of cheap and easy cover. We need more exposure, and more support for it.

Perhaps some examples might be enlightening?

[Ungrounded Lightning (62228)]

I think this discussion can be more enlightened by considering some particular hypothetical cases.

In this case the anonymously-posting group whose member was exposed was critical of a prominent county politician.

Suppose the anonymous poster(s) had been critical of the Chinese government's suppression of Falun Gong or occupation of Tibet.

Suppose the anonymous poster had been Salman Rushdie, at the height of the "Satanic Verses" flap, and the outing included his address.

Suppose the time was shortly before the American Revolution and the posters were people like Samuel Adams, William Molineux, Thomas Paine, Alexander Hamilton, and Paul Revere.

Think about what happened to people like Yuri Orlov, Alexander Litvinenko, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Wang Xiaoning, Nathan Hale, Theo Van Gogh.

I could add names for hours. And, yes, only some of these particular critics of the powerful did so anonymously, so don't bother pointing that out: This list shows what can happen to critics and why they might want to be anonymous.

Maybe this guy won't be sent to a gulag, poisoned by thallium, vanish into the Chinese prison system, or assassinated on the street in broad daylight. But would you be surprised if he is the subject of continual harassment from now on - at least until he moves to another county?

Girl With A One-Track Mind

[paj1234 (234750)]

Sounds like what happened to the "Girl With A One Track Mind". It's a (formerly) anonymous blog and book about sex from a female point of view. A newspaper printed extracts from her book, and then went on to reveal her identity without her permission. This is the email that she received from the newspaper:

Aug 5, 2006 11:08 AM

Dear Miss [my name],

We intend to publish a prominent news story in this weekend's paper, revealing your identity as the author of the book, Girl With a One Track Mind.

We have matched up the dates of films you have worked on - Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Batman Begins and Lara Croft Tomb Raider - and it is clear that they correlate to your blog. We have obtained your birth certificate, and details about where you went to school and college.

We propose to publish the fact that you are 33 and live in [my address] -London, and that your mother, [her name], is a [her address] -based [her profession]. The article includes extracts from your book and blog, relevant to your career in the film industry. We also have a picture of you, taken outside your flat.

Unfortunately, the picture is not particularly flattering and might undermine the image that has been built up around your persona as Abby Lee. I think it would be helpful to both sides if you agreed to a photo shoot today so that we can publish a more attractive image.

We are proposing to assign you our senior portrait photographer, Francesco Guidicini, and would arrange everything to your convenience, including a car to pick you up. We would expect you to provide your own clothes and make up. As the story will be on a colour page, we would prefer the outfit to be one of colourful eveningwear.

We did put this proposal to you yesterday, but heard nothing back. Clearly this is now a matter of urgency, and I would appreciate you contacting me as soon as possible. To avoid any doubt we will, of course, publish the story as it is if we do not hear from you.

Yours sincerely,
Nicholas Hellen
Acting News Editor
Sunday Times

The author had to leave her job and home. Both she and her parents had photographers camped outside their houses. Even her friends were pestered by journalists. Here is how she felt about it: http://girlwithaonetrackmind.blogspot.com/2006/08/ thoughts.html [blogspot.com]

Re:

[SilentChris (452960)]

And?

Nothing what they did was illegal.

Further, any blogger (any internet user, and in particular any Slashdot user) should know that online anonymity is impossible. The best take their real names and run with it. The worst stand behind a glass wall and wonder how people figure out who they really are.

Re:

[mikael (484)]

A more civilised approach would have been for the editors to have run an article on the issue and offered to invite both parties (the blogger and the political candidate) for interviews. The purpose of the CCTV system is to protect the staff of the advertising office, not to publicly expose people the editors have taken a dislike to.

Re:ya

[WED Fan (911325)]

Nothing what they did was illegal.

There is lot that is not illegal. But, the paper's ethics must be called into question. Aside from threats to national security made in a blog, or confession to a felony in a blog, I'm hard pressed to see why outing someone who has chosen to write pseudonymously would be considered ethical.

Further, any blogger (any internet user, and in particular any Slashdot user) should know that online anonymity is impossible. The best take their real names and run with it. The worst stand behind a glass wall and wonder how people figure out who they really are.

Without the ability to publish, blog, speak anonymously, many of the world's tyrannical governments would not have been challenged, taken down, or seceded from. We, the U.S., did it to King George III and much of the public was influenced to support the effort, in part, through the publishing of anonymous, or pseudonymous tracts.

Yes, there are those who tried to uncover the writers, publishers, and distributors. But, in the end, whose interests do they serve?

I will put this forward, a newspaper that denies another's freedom to speak politically under a cloak of anonymity, should lose its right to exist. In other words, they protect the rights of others so their right is protected.

Re:

[PhxBlue (562201)]

I'm hard pressed to see why outing someone who has chosen to write pseudonymously would be considered ethical.

Because it's a question of public interest: Is the person a single entity acting on his own or a front for a political group or "think tank"? In short, is it grass-roots or Astroturf?

Re:

[SilentChris (452960)]

"Figure out who I am."

I couldn't. CmdrTaco and friends could easily. Feel safe?

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to see that.

Try Batman Begins or Passion of the Christ. (Posting as an anonymous for obvious reasons.)