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Blizzard Officially Files Against WoW Glider
Posted by
Zonk
on Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:58 AM
from the it-sorta-kinda-is-cheating dept.
from the it-sorta-kinda-is-cheating dept.
Marcus Eikenberry writes "Blizzard and Vivendi today filed against MDY
Industries, the makers of the 'WoW Glider' software. Glider allows World of Warcraft players to 'play' while away from the keyboard; the software moves the player's avatar along a set path, following a complex set of instructions dictated in advance. Blizzard is seeking injunctive relief and money damages against MDY. What that means is they want him to stop the production of WoW Glider and they want him to pay them damages. Blizzard believes that Glider infringes on their intellectual property. They believe Glider allows players to cheat, giving them an unfair advantage and that they believe Glider encourages Blizzard customers to breach their contracts for playing the game. Last they claim that Glider is designed to circumvent copyright protections."
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Blizzard Lawyers Visit Creator of WoW Glider 229 comments
Rick Hamell writes "On October 25th, Blizzard/Vivendi payed a personal visit to Michael Donnelly, creator of WoW Glider and accused him of violating the DMCA. Their demands were unclear, but come in the wake of recent player bannings for using bots in the popular MMORPG. It looks like he's going to fight it, but I think it'll be an interesting case if it ever reaches the courts." From the post: "The visitors from Vivendi / Blizzard made demands of Michael and stated that if the demands were not met that they would file a complaint in court if he did not meet them. I asked Michael what the demands were. He was unable to comment at the time to the exact details. But I do know they handed him a copy to very briefly 'Look at'. He was not given a copy. I think I could make a good guess and say that they asked for Glider to be shut down and if they feel that they have been harmed they may have asked for a financial settlement."
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Thanks for clearing that up (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks for clearing that up.
Cheers,
Fozzy
Circumventing Copyright is a bit of a stretch (Score:4, Interesting)
As for the rest of their claims...I guess I can see the point, but if you look at the glider forums it would appear that Blizzard is being fairly strict on banning accounts. If Blizzard is able to utilize the ban-hammer effectivly enough, the problem will solve itself. And then people will move on to the next bot.
The ONLY way for blizzard to make the problem go away is to remove the requirement to grind every character up to lvl 60 or 70. My suggestion would be to give people the ability to create alternate characters starting at any level UP TO the level of their highest character. So if you've got a level 52 mage and you've decided mages suck and want to play a warrior, you could create a new warrior character at any level between 1 and 52.
Re:Circumventing Copyright is a bit of a stretch (Score:5, Insightful)
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It may be that any given MMORPG is only "good" for a certain amount of time. After that, you should just move on to something else. Another game, perhaps, or something...different.
Maybe after playing a game for a certain amount of time and leveling up to whatever top level the game offers, the games provider needs to "graduate" the player. Maybe give him an account on another game with certain benefits, or just a little certificate saying "You have achieved t
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As a wow player, here's how I see it. Most people will fall into two camps:
1. Will make one character and play them all the way to level cap
2. Will muddle around with a whole bunch of characters not really advancing quickly with any particular character
The second group isn't a problem for Blizzard at all, because the creation of content is reus
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Re:Circumventing Copyright is a bit of a stretch (Score:5, Informative)
If by "learn" you mean in the same sense as Othello.
There's a difference between learning what does what and learning how to use every skill you have effectively. A lot of players fail at the first step, only learning what 5-6 skills they'll use the most and ignoring the rest. The result is Paladins who don't heal others, Warriors who tank in Berzerker Stance with a 2H, and Druids who aren't aware they're different from Rogues.
It's true that there are typically 5-6 skills each class will use far more than the others. However, the difference between your average player and a good one is the use of the dozen or so others. You may not use Blessing of Protection, Intimidating Shout or Remove Lesser Curse constantly, but knowing you have them and also when to use them makes as big difference.
Some people are capable of getting the basics and some intermediate concepts of a class down in a very short time. More often than not, there are factors which separate these people from others.
1) Experience. These people may not have played the class, but their general game experience is vast.
2) Observation. These people have had the opportunity to observe the class at work whether in game or in videos, and have the sense to remember this information.
3) Adaptation. Even with the previous two, the ability to adapt and fill in knowledge gaps quickly is a notable contributor.
The vast majority of players are lacking in one or more of these categories. For them, it is entirely imperative that they have 60+ levels where skills are slowly added into their repertoire and dungeons slowly progress in role difficulty. Even veteran players can benefit, as extensive exposure to a class allows insights that a 20 minute glance does not typically afford.
I learn quickly, but I remember when I seredipitously discovered my typical opener as a hunter was less efficient than one that was somewhat less intuitive. Even after 30 levels worth of play, there are still things to learn.
Parent
Re:Circumventing Copyright is a bit of a stretch (Score:4, Insightful)
Bad. Idea.
Parent
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Bad. Idea.
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Re:Circumventing Copyright is a bit of a stretch (Score:4, Insightful)
As compared to all the warriors who has leveled themselves and still doesn't know how to hold aggro?
Bad warrior! No heal for you!
Parent
That's a big no... (Score:4, Insightful)
That's a big "no," if ever I heard one.
Parent
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"Easy" is an adjective. You're modifying "switch," which is sometimes a noun but in this case is a verb. The adverb you're looking for is "easily." Good grammar doesn't require a PhD in quantum physics or even a solid grasp of using warrior forms correctly.
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Not to make too fine a point on it, but they appear to have been successful in that venture.
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The grind is a point of balance for the game. It, along with training costs, loot tables, and quest objectives, determines the rate at which you progress through the largely stand alone content of the game. If they lowered the experience grind, you might be completely incapable of finishing half the quests in a zone before you'd outleveled them.
Even if they upped the grind, the hardcore players would still be level 70 in no time. The number of level 60-70 Blood Elves and Draene
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Seriously, such a thing would be pointless. your new character would start with what? beginner equipment? Might work for a mage, but a warrior type is only as good as his weapon in most cases.
Then there's the whole issue that you're not playing the game anymore. I'd be fine with it if you could start a new character at level 10 or so. Before that you cant do anything, but its low enough that even beginner equipment is usable to make a little change, to buy s
Re:Circumventing Copyright is a bit of a stretch (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is that some people only like one of the two games. Unfortunately, if you like the item game, you are forced to play the leveling game first.
Parent
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Have you ever even played the game? There are more than enough quests to level you from 1-60 without having to level grind. If you run out of quests in your current locale, there are at least one or two other areas (possibly on another continent, mind you) where there are quests appropriate for your level. If you can't be bothered to take 10 minutes to tra
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Are you playing the same WoW I am? I've recently finished levelling a druid to 60, and not once did I run out of quests to do. In fact, I was offered more quests than I could do, and frequently ended up dumping or skippi
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Re:Circumventing Copyright is a bit of a stretch (Score:5, Interesting)
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Strength of their argument (Score:3, Insightful)
This point can seem to be a strong suit.
This is really a legal issue? Can I be put in jail for taking a few 100 extra monopoly dollars when no one is looking? The first thing I can think of is Insider Trading, which is punishable, but is a video game = the stock market?
Can the company be held responsible, even if it's the users choice? If I tell my friend that if he drives really fast when a police offer wants to pull him over, am I responsible when he runs from the cops the next time he might be asked to pull over while driving?
This seems laughable, but IANAL. Copy protection? I guess all users are circumventing such protection. One could draw a stern defense that a person playing WoW becomes little more than an automated computer program. Though, I'm not familiar with Glide or how it interacts with the WoW programming, but I imagine it just a program that interacts with the WoW client or the packets it sends to automate processes.
What's Blizzards strength for their argument besides "they're breaking our EULA or TOS"? Are they saying that "Hey, we've had to ban 100,000's of accounts because people are using your products and we want you to pay us back for those 100,000 accounts. Lets see, that's 100,000 accounts at $15 / month and the average account is active for 1 year. So, pay us $18,000,000."
Hmmm... could local governments sue nitrous and 'after market' car parts manufacturers that encourage people to drive over the speed limits? Or maybe a better analogy would be those who cause accidents and injure other people. Could those injured parties sue the manufacturers of such products?
Cheers,
Fozzy
Re:Strength of their argument (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
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A) Use of Glider is a violation of the TOS.
B) The creators of Glider actively promote it's use (by selling and marketing it). C) People who use Glider have their accounts banned for TOS violation, which harms blizzard financially.
That looks like enough to get the case into court to me. Your arguments are a combination of "it's the users choice", which ignores the very existence of this category of law, and "another one will pop up anyway", which misses the point ent
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And that's a tort against the game company. ("tort" is "something that you can be sued over." Not necessarily a crime, but still something that's a bad idea.)
It's almost the exact same tort as, oh, a P2P company that encourages sharing of copyrighted music. And it's the same legal principle that applies to, oh, hiring someone else to kill your mother.
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I think this is a case of technicality. Because the players are required to agree to a contract that stipulates they will follow the rules of the game which prohibit bots, then by providing the bots to break those rules means you are encouraging others to break a contract. Furthe
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Not true. I don't have the references handy, but EULAs have been found valid on many occasions. The two big problems are when (a) you don't actually have to have seen the agreement before installing the software, and (b) when you pay for the software (or can't get your money back for it) before agreeing to the EULA. In WoW's case specifically, Blizzard provides a way for you to get your money back for the boxed game if
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The legal concept is called "tortious contract interference". Usually it's a charge levied against one company by another if the second company has an employment contract with someone, but the first company attempts to hire that person out from u
question from a non-wow player (Score:4, Insightful)
Why pay to play a game, and then have a computer play it for you?
First, it seems like a waste of your dollars. You might as well just install Progress Quest. It will play for you too, and it's free.
Second, if an RPG has simplistic enough mechanics that it *can* be played automatically, then it seems too simple to be interesting to a human.
Re:question from a non-wow player (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny because it's true. In actuality, such games are not so much about the 'enjoyment of playing' but the 'enjoyment of collection'. It's like when I was a kid and spend endless money on football cards. Sometimes obsessively so to try and get a special card from a pack, or go to 'specialty stores' to buy it specifically from someone else.
Like that, WoW and other MMO's are about collection or completing 'sets' of things. In this case, leveling your character to the level cap. Maxing out all their abilities. Sure, a Hunter might only use a bow for 99% of his play time, but this person will still max out their sword, 2 hand sword, axe, hand-to-hand, polearm, staff, etc skill.
They might NEVER care about the cooking skill, but they max this out too, because they have it and it's not maxed yet. So, you might say "yeah, but if you're still not playing the game, then you'd still have no interest in the game and therefor no interest in doing it in the first place.". That would be true as well. Most of this maxing out skills would be done for some of the tedious tasks that the person really doesn't want to spend the time doing, but has spent the time maxing out the stats that matter when he was playing.
Otherwise, most uses are simply for those who are trying circumvent the 'boring' process of acquiring wealth to purchase things that would allow them to enjoy the game. For instance, this goes to your second good point...
Half of the game is fun, and not necessary for automation. That's the leveling/quest process. There's fun action/story involved in the game. When you reach the level cap, that's when the 'tedium' kicks in. My own example. I've recently hit level 70. Now, I'm doing the 'max out my skills' area or 'finish all the quests in my book' thing. It's the football collector / perfectionist side of me. I want that 100% completion rating kind of thing. Actually, I now find myself not caring to play as much, since I know all that's left is 'grind' with little accomplishment and I'm not looking forward to waisting my time maxing out my fishing or cooking skills again.
However, the parts I am interested in, where I now have to 'grind' out 5,200 gold to afford that epic flying mount, which could take weeks or months, would be a waist of my time as there's no enjoyable benefit for me. I 'could' just keep doing the quests and dungeons until I reach 5,200 gold, but that would take months if I spend no time focusing on making money.
That's when people turn to these automated programs (or for those who use them to sell gold on internet sites). The problem is not the automated program, but that people feel like they need automation to avoid waisting their time and to reach a point they feel comfortable playing again.
So, in your 2nd point, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head and that an game should adjust their development if there are automation problems. However, I think the automation problems are fairly limited to those who are using it to farm in-game gold to sell for real money. So, I think the amount of grind required for 'most' things is fairly reasonable with the latest expansion (I feel it was much worse before the latest expansion pack) and Blizzard has noticed the amount of unpleasant grind on 'some' things, but are keeping others due to the fact that it's just part of the business model to keep people playing and paying.
Cheers,
Fozzy
Parent
Re:question from a non-wow player (Score:4, Insightful)
That's an attitude I've never been able to understand. In game after game I see the same thing: "I've ground my $template to $levelcap and I'm bored! There's nothing to do but $handful of stuff!"
Well, duh idiot. You ground yourself right past all the content! WTF did you expect? When you play a console game or PC RPG you don't try and leap right to the boss fight - why do you do that in a MMO?
Parent
Re:question from a non-wow player (Score:5, Funny)
But, I never have time to play. The cool thing is, I got it configured so that my computer can play the game itself. I just let it run whenever I'm not using the machine, and check up to see if I've found anything yet.
No luck so far. You'd think they would put more aliens into a game like this to make it exciting. If I haven't found any by next month, I think I'm going to return it.
Parent
sigh (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm also not a big fan of their anti-cheating tactics, and I applaud these people for circumventing them, even if it may have been for a bad cause.
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The program allows a person to leave their computer and let the script play for them. It is
Author is a moron (Score:3, Insightful)
Is this guy serious? "it is not really a cheat program"? No, it doesn't dupe items. It just gives you a massive competitive advantage, equivalent to a bunch of other ways of cheating (that the author delightfully lists) in violation of the ToS. That's not cheating at all.
What a tool.
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Heh. "Sammy Sosa's new cybernetic brain implant doesn't do anything the athlete would be physically incapable of doing himself, it just does it with an unnerring accuracy and resiliance that Sosa himself could never in practice achieve. Senate hearings as to whether or not this constitues 'cheating' are expected to continue..."
Anyone have a link to Vivendi's filing? (Score:2, Interesting)
bots (Score:2, Funny)
One valid reason for it to exist (Score:4, Interesting)
If the author really wanted to keep WoWGlider going, he would of open-sourced it before got the big take down. I seriously doubt he has the money to win the legal case.
Didn't bnetd teach us anything??
HOW is it illegal, exactly? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:HOW is it illegal, exactly? (Score:4, Informative)
Its a sensible restriction in most games to ban unnattended macroing. I am against banning tools as well, but it would be different if they were watching the screen while running this app.
Parent
Why the EULA is vital for an MMORPG (Score:3, Informative)