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Teacher Avoids Getting Sent to Siberia For Piracy
Posted by
CowboyNeal
on Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:29 PM
from the off-the-hook dept.
from the off-the-hook dept.
Piracy Support Line writes "Russian principal Alexander Ponosov will not be visiting Siberia any time soon, at least not for the allegedly illegal Microsoft software that were preloaded on the computers they bought and Microsoft supported the reseller's story. Although Bill Gates rejected Mikhail Gorbachev's personal appeal for mercy on behalf of the teacher, the judge was kinder. Judge Elvira Mosheva decided to dismiss the case because 'Microsoft's financial damage is too insignificant for a criminal investigation.'"
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Gorbachev Asks Gates to Intervene in Piracy Case 331 comments
An anonymous reader writes to tell us that former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev has asked Bill Gates to intervene in a software piracy case against the headmaster of a middle school. If convicted, Alexander Ponosov could face detention in a Siberian prison camp for his crime.
[+]
Politics: Russian School Teacher 'Pirate' Case Re-Opened 97 comments
newtley writes "Russian school teacher Alexander Ponosov thought he was out from under after having been accused of 'criminally' using Microsoft product. A Russian court threw the case out, calling it 'trivial,' and Russian president Vladimir Putin said those who make "pirate" goods should be targeted, not consumers, calling the trial "utter nonsense". Now the BBCA Russian court has ordered a retrial, 'after pressure from the prosecution'. However, Ponosovhas now launched a web site. It's in Russian."
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Good (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Let me... (Score:2, Funny)
What did you expect? (Score:5, Informative)
1: Administrator buys what he thinks is a legit copy. It isnt.
2: Gorbachev AND Gates are tossing words around. Erm, HOLY SHIT. Big names in each corner.
3: Russia already has warned any researcher in coming to the USA (dmitri skylarov vs adobe)
4: Do we trust a US company or open source that anybody can review? China already supports Red Flag Linux.
5: Putin came out in defense of the administrator. What he says, goes.
Need we say more? The cards are stacked against MS. They back off, and then they go "soft" on copyright violations, but they are the big bullies if they do go ahead.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft didn't go soft on anyone. They weren't suing, it was a criminal matter (ie state vs. defendant) and whether or not Microsoft approved was almost irrelevant. Again. this had little if anything to do with Microsoft.
They did miss a golden opportunity for good PR by speaking out about it, but in the end the decision came down to the judge. It wasn't Microsoft's place to go soft or hard or otherwise.
Parent
Oh please (Score:4, Insightful)
Which is irrelevant to this case too. We're not talking some security researcher who disclosed a security vulnerability, nor even cracked some DRM, but about someone who allegedly pirated some programs. I'm willing to bet that there was exactly zero research involved.
Sorry, but... Here I'll call outright bullshit. Sorry, this is _not_ about "let's use F/OSS instead of closed source", it's about using pirated closed source programs. If they wanted to support F/OSS, they could have done so, but no, they wanted to keep using Windows for free. There's a freakin' huge difference there.
And spare me the emotional parts about trust, please. So they can trust closed source if it's pirated? Does Windows become more open if you use a pirated serial number? Does Office save its files in a less proprietary format just because it's on a CD-R? WTF?
There _are_ good arguments for trusting F/OSS instead of closed source programs and proprietary formats. That senator from IIRC Peru made a damn good case for example. But this case isn't it. It's plain and simple about pirating closed source programs. If you will, it's exactly the _opposite_: these guys decided that they can trust MS and closed source all right, they just don't want to pay.
Step out of the "yay, they stuck it to MS" mentality a little, and you may see that there's little to celebrate. There would have been ways to make a pro-OSS or anti-closed-source point, but that was not what happened here. They just gave a vote of confidence to MS, if anything. Price being equal (free as in beer, even if by virtue of being stolen beer) they just decided they'd rather use Windows.
And, without going into your other points in detail, for the people of Russia I see even less to celebrate in this mockery of justice. It just shows that the whole country, including prominent figures like Gorbachev and (scarily enough) their president Putin, just can't wrap their head around such notions as "rule of the law". They're still stuck in the soviet era mentality, where "justice" is something based on scapegoats, favoritism, nepotism and rich powerful guys punishing the little guys they don't like. E.g., Gorbachev just showed that he has no freakin' clue what's the difference between a criminal case and Bill Gates persecuting a poor teacher.
If that's the kind of politicians and mentality that Russia still has, then I feel genuinely sorry for those people.
Parent
Re:What did you expect? (Score:4, Funny)
5: Putin came out in defense of the administrator. What he says, goes.
So a guy who gasses his own people, murders journalists, fixes elections and tries to kill the guy who won when it didn't work ... is more merciful, reasonable, and just than Bill Gates. Damn. You would think this would be a wake up call for Bill Gates.
Parent
Odd... (Score:3, Insightful)
It's just sad that court costs are so high, and you can't sue for anywhere close to the actual damage.
it is not "odd", but basic law (Score:2, Informative)
Microsoft has subverted the laws of the world and made minor acts of copyright infringement into criminal acts. This way Microsoft gets the taxpayer to fund a massive witch hunt against people, mostly good, who have done little wrong. And in the great sche
Re:it is not "odd", but basic law (Score:5, Funny)
Once again Microsoft fails to be the actual innovator; they're just ripping off Disney.
KFG
Parent
Re:Odd... (Score:5, Informative)
If this were a theft you would be correct. It is not. It's a copyright violation; where intent to distribute/a dollar threshold determines whether the case is criminal or merely a civil matter.
What the judge is saying is that based on the evidence it is unlikely that a crime has actually been commited by the accused and thus it is not worth putting the governement to the time and expense of an investigation to support a criminal proceeding.
Bear in mind that the prosecution had, at the time of the hearing, dropped the accusation that he had himself "pirated" the software and instead he was merely accused of using it for a week.
Making this sort of judgement is part of the job of judge; and why we call them "judges."
KFG
Parent
Re:Odd... (Score:4, Insightful)
The financial damage was too insignificant? That's a rather strange reason to dismiss a case, as it violates the letter of the law.
No it doesn't. Whatever the law says, in criminal cases the prosecutor always has to decide whether or not a prosecution is in the public interest. If the damage caused by the defendant is not significant, then it probably isn't.Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
... but what an enlightened precedent it would make.
Reminds me of someone my mum knew who was caught growing marijuana in their backyard for personal use. He pleaded guilty and then kept appealing the sentence on the grounds that the punishment should not out weigh the crime, that what he did was a victimless crime, etc. What started out as a hefty jail sentence ended up in the Federal Court (Australia) with the
Re: (Score:2)
The problem as I see it, Is that Microsoft made the claim it was pirated, the teacher claimed it was bought whith the computers, Microsoft investigates and stands behind the resaler who sold the computers and then the charge was moved to using the software after know
Microsoft not involved (Score:5, Informative)
Nice FUD job though. Gotta get those ad impressions going.
Re: (Score:2)
Unrelated.
No, not at all! (Score:2)
Sure, M$ has nothing to do with the global advance of draconian "intellectual property" law. Nobody has been threatening other contries with trade embargo of the sort usually reserved for wars. No, nothing to do with Bill Gates and M$, they are the good guys trying to eduspam your children about how to buy fine Office software and what a dirty bad pirate you are if you don't buy a M$ OS with each and every computer sold. Oh noes, M$ would never launch any action against a school. [salon.com]
Their solution, to neve
Re: (Score:2)
Oh noes
We've had this conversation before [slashdot.org] twitter. You're still full of it.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's OK if you get your panties in a bunch when you see these stories. Really. But wearing down your #4 key to do your hilarious "M$" thing and trying to desperately spin your "OMFG IS TEH EVILZ" bull is just not going to work. Save it for when you actually have a point to make. Microsoft does plenty of bad th
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft not involved (Score:5, Informative)
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/1700AP_APF
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6332441.stm/ [bbc.co.uk]
Gates couldn't lay off their lawsuit because they didn't have a lawsuit against the man.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
That being said, I'm wondering how the claim to being pirated software came about. I mean how does microsoft
Re: (Score:2)
Cite?
Re: (Score:2)
A missed PR opportunity for Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft could have handled this differently and spun the whole thing to their advantage. This could have been a "Genuine Advantage" moment. "See? Make sure your pre-installed software comes with the original disks and software keys! We'll let you off the hook, but all you out there please learn from Mr. Ponosov's predicament and deal only with reputable certified Microsoft resellers" or some such.
But instead they turned the other cheek, and a teacher almost was sentenced to prison in Siberia over something as simple as missing software keys. And a Russian judge showed more compassion and understanding of the matter than Bill Gates. Those are the facts, and they do not look good. This is, and rightfully should be, a PR nightmare for Microsoft.
A shame really. The Gates Foundation gives away piles of cash for humanitarian goals, but events like this let you know where that money is really coming from. And what people behind it are really like. Business first, before anything else, always.
Re: (Score:2)
But what indicates legitimate software? When we deal with 2nd and 3rd world countries, we see lots of count
Re: (Score:2)
But there's a hidden side to that. How many people know that although the foundation gives money for vaccines, Gates owns large amounts of the very same pharmaceutical companies favored by the foundation. So the money goes out - Gates gets tax benefits and PR glory - and then the money comes in to his companies. I'd say, nice plan if you can afford it. He always was, is, and will be a rotten SOB. I hope the Russians give him a humanitar
I enjoyed Putins comment (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Forgive me, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Shouldnt they be doing this with RIAA cases in US? (Score:5, Insightful)
No, but a teacher faces jail time due to malware. (Score:5, Informative)
In the Meantime ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Piracy? In school? (Score:5, Funny)
Clearly they are not teaching the three "Arrrrr!"s in school these days.
Monopolies & Monarchies Fail (Score:2)
Ummm, spin much? (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyone know the exact U.S. Punishment for Piracy (Score:3, Interesting)
I have given them lots of software options on their computer: All computers dual boot Windows XP (licensed!) and SLED10. All computers have lots of Free Software to do just about any task and most programs are very easy to learn. Unfortunately we have a few programs the teachers have to run that require Administrator rights, this opens the door for them to install any software. I have had to remove quite a few programs: MS Office, Adobe software, Hallmark Card software, etc.
If I am the Network Admin, under U.S. Law, am I LEGALLY responsible if the school comes up having unlicensed software installed during an Audit ??
I have had this discussion with the Superintendent and he is seriously requiring all our Vendors to have their programs run under Linux within 2 years (as if they actually would care to lose us as a customer), which would allow us to destory the Windows partitions on all of our computers. Needless to say, I have a feeling within the next year or so I will have to become a WINE expert.
ramifications (Score:5, Insightful)
From what I had read, the teacher was warned once, and he still continued using pirated software. Frankly he did break the law, he deserves a punishment, maybe not prison, but atleast slap on the wrist. People should be encouraged to follow licenses be in Sony's music license, microsoft's eula, or FSF's gpl.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re:ramifications (Score:5, Interesting)
Trade infringement is a problem that should be addressed but it is obviously being taken far more seriously by the criminal justice system than threats of injury to individuals because of the economic power of large companies. The law is falling into disrepute.
Parent
Re:ramifications (Score:5, Insightful)
This still means that a civil prosecution would be possible.
I have never heard of a criminal prosecution anywhere in the world for a GPL violation, have you? I do not think the authorities bother with criminal prosecutions on behalf of this commie open source stuff.
So the ruling makes it harder for proprietary software companies to sue, but makes no difference in enforcing open source licences.
Of course, MS is not likely to want to enforce its licences in Russia, any more than it does in most of Asia, so piracy is now OK. I would not be surprised if MS has been leaning on the Russian authorities to ensure that the teacher got off - which would explain why the serious charges were dropped by the prosecution. They can not openly say they are in favour of piracy, but the last thing they want is people switching to Linux to save money.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Sure I know it is "haha" since Microsoft in the recieving end, but take the context put linux and gpl on one end, and you will realize that a court could rule that since no one is placed in a financial disadvantage people can abuse the gpl. When Microsoft gets screwed over by something it is just a matter of time before someone applies to opensource stuff.
So
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Occasionally voiced as "An it harm none, do as ye will."
I'm in total agreement with you.
The problem is there are always corner cases, and they lead to the inglorious tangle the law has become.
The local library has a copy of the California State Code from about 1910 -- it's a single middling-hefty hardback. Contrast that to the shelves
Except he didn't (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, _if_ he had used GPL software, all that would have happened. Except he didn't use OSS, he just went and pirated Windows instead. And the whole case just created a precedent for that too. There are millions of computers in Russia which could have a financial incentive to use some free (at least as in beer) software instead or some cheap local software. Now they'll keep using a pirated version of Windows instead. Congrats.
All piracy helps kill isn't the big software houses, but they help kill their small competitors. Piracy didn't kill MS Office, but it helped nearly kill Star Office and the horde of smaller options that used to exist. Sure, they missed 90% of the Office features that 90% of the population never needed, but they would have been plenty enough and cheap for writing a recipe or a CV in. If the option really were "do I get MS Office for a shitload of money, or Someone1234 Write for very little money, or KWrite for free", the second and third options would look a lot more viable. But when the option becomes "I can copy all them for free, so do I get MS Office or Someone1234 Write or KWrite", the choice also becomes "WTF, let's get MS Office then."
People don't all drive Ferraris, so some go buy a modest small car instead, because they can't pirate a car. So a lot more options exist. In the software world they pirate the big thing, and let the smaller budget options die.
Worse yet, the illusion of ubiquitousness helped kill competition even further past some point. Let's all pirate Office at home because that's what we use at work too. And let's then all install Office at work, because, wth, everyone already knows how to use their pirated copy at home.
And what do you think that does to F/OSS in Russia too? There could have been local distros, small local companies maybe customizing it for schools or offering cheap tech support/installations, etc. There could have been kids learning to use KDE or Gnome instead of XP's shitty Fischer Price interface (unless you disable the fluff), and maybe having a look at the code, in those schools. Now they'll all grow on pirated Windows software, and continue to not even understand the "use the free choice, if you can't afford the behemoth" idea. Probably not even understanding why and how it would help to contribute some code to the free choice. Why would you bother when you know everyone will just pirate Windows instead? Way to go.
Parent
Re:ramifications (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Thief got away... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Thief got away... (Score:5, Insightful)
Only if you have more money than I do.
Parent
Re:..Avoids Getting Sent to Siberia ? He lives the (Score:2)
Re:..Avoids Getting Sent to Siberia ? He lives the (Score:3, Informative)
Well, under the Soviets, there were basically three classes of people in Siberia.
(1) Convicts in prison camps. Basically like the chain gangs in the Southern US in the 1930s, except a hell of a lot worse. The convicts in turn were divided into politicals and ordinary criminals, the latter often being given positions as trusties in the camps, and lording it over the politicals.
(2) People released from prison or
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
No, that's San Francisco.