Gorbachev Asks Gates to Intervene in Piracy Case

An anonymous reader writes to tell us that former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev has asked Bill Gates to intervene in a software piracy case against the headmaster of a middle school. If convicted, Alexander Ponosov could face detention in a Siberian prison camp for his crime.

In Soviet Russia...

[drewzhrodague (606182)]

In Soviet Russia, Bill Gates hates YOU!

I'm sorry, I had to.

Re:

[$RANDOMLUSER (804576)]

In Soviet Amerika, Bill Gates sends gulag to YOU!

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[ThatsNotFunny (775189)]

Eh... i think i'll wait for Gulag SP2.

Re:

[sconeu (64226)]

I believe that's Windows Vista.

The teacher was a Notes user....

[LibertineR (591918)]

This, Gates could not forgive.

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[icyblackhandofdeath (1018880)]

I lived in Russia for two year. The problem with this as I see it is that outside of Moscow/St. Petersburg it is nearly impossible to find a legitimate copy of Windows. I've never seen one anyway. The same goes for music and DVDs, I wouldn't have known where to go to get a legit copy of anything, but the pirated versions were EVERYWHERE. In Russia they can just assume that anyone with a computer has something illegal on it. I would imagine that many people don't even realize that they're using pirated software, they're just using the software that they bought from some vendor on the street, and that's what everyone else in the whole country is doing, so why shouldn't they? It's probably mostly the teens who are more connected with the rest of the world through the internet cafes that have a good understanding of what's pirated and what's not. A lot of the adults, especially the farther you get from the capitol, don't even understand what piracy is. Computers are not ubiquitous the way they are in America. Just my $.02, having lived in Russia.

do the crime, do the time?

[yagu (721525)]

I don't know, did this schoolmaster knowingly "pirate" his software? It's not clear to me from the article. Gorbachev argues the nuance he didn't know he was committing a crime. That to me sounds like splitting semantic hairs.

That said, I believe if someone knowing commits an infraction, they should be able to sustain the punishment. But, I don't always agree with the punishment in light of the crime. The world of software piracy is especially troubling to me.

It seems too much onus is put on the pirate and little on the accuser to carry the final outcome. I know if laws were enforced strictly I would have done some time -- I was once unpleasantly surprised to fire up Excel at a corporate computer to find my name and my license info plastered all over the screen... Someone had pirated my legitimate copy, but how to prove my innocence?

I've heard if you want to change a bad law, enforce it strictly. Maybe a few cases like this could bring more light to the heavy-handed tactics against the little guys (don't know if this one of those cases, but it certainly has the signature).

Unfortunately, I see the outcome of this as a huge PR win for Microsoft, and I think Gates may actually take the bait. This adds to his recent buildup of reputation as world benefactor. If he has Microsoft withdraw the complaint (or offers up some benevolent deal), Microsoft gets a PR coup. And, that would be a shame.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[SydShamino (547793)]

I don't know, did this schoolmaster knowingly "pirate" his software? It's not clear to me from the article. Gorbachev argues the nuance he didn't know he was committing a crime. That to me sounds like splitting semantic hairs.

It's possible the schoolmaster assumed he could make unlimited copies of the software for non-profit, academic use only. If he works at a school that has to watch every penny in its budget (like 90% of schools in the world), and he makes barely enough to live on himself (like 90% of teachers in the world), he probably assumed Microsoft would not attempt to charge a price that he and his school would be unable to pay.

Clearly Russian schools need a donation of 10,000 Kubuntu live CDs. This will provide them with well-needed coasters, and maybe a few schools would try it out and switch to legitimate software rather than risk having their teachers sent to Siberia.

10K of Kubuntu doesn't scratch the surface

[postbigbang (761081)]

Try 10M of Kubuntu.

This presumes of course that there is enough hardware. There is not.

The old koan that states that you can't satisfy hunger by looking at a picture of a fish applies here.

This is actually part of the same campaign that's trying to make Gates, his foundations (and those cute pictures of Patty Stonecipher) all make us think nice things in the light of the disaster of Zune, Vista, and many other things Microsoft.

Mod me down as flamebait, but I'm merely the oxygen, not the spark. Microsoft is

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[networkBoy (774728)]

I don't know a single teacher that is any good at their job who doesn't grade papers at home (unpaid), buy some amount of supplies for their class (unreimbursed), and as a result make far less than average on an hourly basis.
-nB

Teaching pros and cons

[Adriax (746043)]

Both parents, 2 siblings, and a couple extended family members are all teachers, or in the case of my father superintendent.
Yes pay is ok, it's not stellar but it's good, though raises and cost of living increases rarely ever happen.

Benefits are excellent, summers off unless you opt for extra pay through summer school teaching. Good medical insurance for free, my dad's gets free generic drugs and anything over $200 in medical bills (including vision and dental) a year is covered 100%. Other benefits depend on tenure and position, like paid retraining, access to facilities after hours (my first real internet connection was in my dad's office, which I had free reign of after 6pm and on weekends). Some school districts recieve a lot of unnecessary grant money and budget allocation for tech upgrades, meaning at the end of the fiscal year even a small school can have $50k in unused tech cash and a need of ideas on what to spend it on.
Biggest benefit is stability and portability. EVERY community needs teachers, and it usually takes a good decade for population growth rates to effect wether they still need 50 teachers, or just 45.

Downsides are what turn most people off from the job. Longer hours than most jobs. Enough unpaid overtime to make an EA programmer pity you. More breakroom drama than ABC's daytime lineup. No Child Left Behind and other completely fucking stupid plans and regulations. Daily exposure to more infectious diseases than most doctors will ever see (this is why they don't skimp on the medical insurance).
Kids who wish you were sent to a siberian prison camp. Parents who ignore the fact their little angel is a holy terror and attribute everything from bad grades to disciplinary issues on your incompetence (so what if little billy was caught cheating, sleeps in class, and has started 3 fights this week alone, YOU hate him and are singling him out for undue punishment and failing grades). Parents who will do anything to correct any percieved issues with little angel's grades (death threats, my dad as a principal got dozens from parents looking for a way their kid won't fail 3rd grade again).

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[pluther (647209)]

...you are correct, they make about 8% more than the average worker.

That's 8% more than the average of all workers.

Teachers, though, are degreed professionals.

When compared against other degreed professionals (page 5 of that same document), you'll see they make considerably less. In 2004, about 60% of the average for other professions that require a four year degree plus certification.

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

>Gorbachev argues the nuance he didn't know he was committing a crime. That to me sounds like splitting semantic hairs.

Not really. The courts require Mens Rea [wikipedia.org] before they can convict. No Mens Rea, no culpability, no crime. This is a basic requirement and can't be avoided (unless Russian corts are very, very weird). A bit on the scale of "No body, no crime".

Ignorance of the law actually is a defence when it can be proven the defedant truly could not have known something was either wrong or a crime. I

Re:

[packeteer (566398)]

Russia has vastly different copyright laws than the USA. You cant just assume he knew it was illegal in Russia just becuase you know it is illegal in the USA. There are many things that are legal in Russia that people fullyy understand that we could hardly imagine as being legal. The fact that the teacher thought copying software for non-commercial education use is not hard for me to imagine.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Gverig (691181)]

Original letter says that the teacher bought computer with pre-installed software and was not aware of its being illegitimate. Does not really mean that it's true although seems quite possible. For reference, this teacher's salary was probably well below $100/month (Perm is hardly a commerce center)... The letter also mentions that organization that sold said computers to the school is not being investigated.

This is the Justice Russian Style

Re:

[antiMStroll (664213)]

"I don't know, did this schoolmaster knowingly "pirate" his software? It's not clear to me from the article. Gorbachev argues the nuance he didn't know he was committing a crime. That to me sounds like splitting semantic hairs."

How is this different than hard time for stealing a loaf a bread? We've finally allowed a belief in corporate BS-wrapped self-interest almost religious in magnitude to push back human rights to Hugo's time. Siberian prison for using software? What have we become? Incidentally, my

Re:

[b0s0z0ku (752509)]

Ignorance is not an excuse; you can be done for receiving stolen goods in the UK and simply claiming you did not know they were stolen is not a valid defence.

Depends what crime. A lot of felonies in the US have language that states "... with malice aforthought ...".

-b.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[tchuladdiass (174342)]

In some states in the US, there is a distinction between "ignorance of the law" and "ignorance of the facts". In your receiving stolen goods example, if a person had no reason to believe that the goods were stolen then there is no charge (althought the goods would still be forfieted). For example if you bought a plasma tv at Walmart that ended up in their supply chain via a crooked vendor then you wouldn't be charged with any felony. However, buying the same plasma tv out of the back of someones van for $50.00 could land you in hot water because a reasonable person should conclude that the merchandise was stolen property (the low price, the circumstances of purchase, etc).

So, if the same principle were to be applied, then this schoolmaster shouldn't have been charged since he aquired the equipment from a seemingly legitimate source. Of course, now we've blended UK, US, and Russian law all in one discussion.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[HomelessInLaJolla (1026842)]

> Ignorance is not an excuse

When the legal code in the US fills entire floors of a stadium sized library how in the world can ignorance not be an excuse? There isn't a single person in the nation who knows all of the laws.

We do not have too many criminals. We have too many laws.

Prison Camp

[by Anonymous Coward]

Siberian Prison Camp is a little hard core for a Bootleg OS. Hope they don't catch me, they might try to genocide my ass or something.

Inspired students

[RichMan (8097)]

Ok so how many north american students are ripping the authentication stickers off school owned Dell machines and keying the phone number to the BSA in as they read this.

Reporting your teacher/principal to the BSA, priceless.

Re:Inspired students

[PPGMD (679725)]

Not likely BSA audits are more painless then people think. One of my clients underwent a BSA audit, it wasn't nearly as painful as people claim, and they were in the exact situation described, no proof of OEM copy of Windows on hand, these were Windows 98 machines before the COA sticker became common place. They simply pulled up the paperwork to show that they purchased it with the computers, and it was all hunky dory.

Re:Inspired students

[numbski (515011)]

You don't understand how much this annoys me. I wouldn't let the BSA in my front door, let alone comply with any "audit". They aren't a government agency, nor a legal authority. They aren't allowed on my property, under any situation, and I've made all of my staff aware of that fact. The answer to BSA, or "Business Software Alliance" is "Please leave our property or we will call the police. This facility runs Linux and Open Source Software." If they don't leave, call the police and have them removed.

End of discussion.

Re:Inspired students

[Max Littlemore (1001285)]

I think you'd be making a BIG mistake taking that attitude.

Instead of threatening them with police involvement, try inviting them politely in to a special waiting room with modern looking, yet incredibly uncomfortable, furniture and ask them to wait until your company's Microsoft Purchasing Officer is ready to answer their queries.

When it's time to lock up and go home, tell them they are welcome to come again the next business day, or you can call them when you actually hire a Microsft Purchasing Officer if they'd prefer.

Re:Inspired students

[megaditto (982598)]

Why anybody would let these people in the door is beyond me

Well... Perhaps the BSA auditors would like to hear about Jehovah?

Dear Bill Gates:

[Peter Trepan (572016)]

We wish to send convicted pirate to Siberia for cracking Windows Vista, but can not afford police. Please to apprehend him personally.

Missing the bigger issue

[gasmonso (929871)]

This isn't a case about Microsoft going after a teacher. The real issue here is the pressure that the US puts on countries that want to join the World Trade Organization. The hypocrisy here is ridiculous. Look at China and the rampant piracy there.

But this leads to another issue and that is pricing. The cost of software is way out of reach for most of these countries. Piracy becomes the only alternative (besides open source of course).

gasmonso

imprisonment?

[User 956 (568564)]

If convicted, Alexander Ponosov could face detention in a Siberian prison camp for his crime.

Imprisonment? I thought the russian government just poisoned everyone with Polonium 210 these days.

Six Words from Bill

[StikyPad (445176)]

Mr. Gorbachev: Tear down that firewall.

wrong tree

[Tom (822)]

Talk about balking up the wrong tree.

Mr. Gorbachev, with all due respect, you should have checked for Gates past [wikipedia.org] before making yourself ridiculous.

Gates just Declined

[AftanGustur (7715)]

In an astonishing move, Mr. Gates has rejected the proposal! [iht.com]

I wonder if Mr. Gates gets a stiffy by a brutal demonstration of his powers, by crushing the life of a simple teacher.

Re:

[spiritraveller (641174)]

Were he to call up the prosecutor and ask them not to go forward, it would be a clear statement that Russia is a banana republic. A rich guy can just make them fall over and do what he wants? Well, probably it's true, and Gorbachev obviously sees it that way.

But the article you linked mentions that Putin has already said that prosecuting this guy is ridiculous. If Putin can use some pressure to stop the prosecution, it makes him look good. If you make Putin look good, the doors open even wider for you i

And This Astonishes You Because...?

[ewhac (5844)]

Gates has been whining about people "stealing" his software since the late 1970's. For him to come to the defense of an accused copyright infringer, even if that person was an innocent victim of counterfeiting, is simply politically impossible. To do so would sharply undermine Microsoft's poster-child status as the world's biggest "victim" of unsanctioned copying, and would make the intolerable suggestion that the position he's staunchly maintained for the last thirty years as a clear-cut black-and-white

... but Putin steps forward

[ja (14684)]

"To grab someone for buying a computer somewhere and start threatening him with prison is complete nonsense, simply ridiculous," Putin said. "The law recognizes the concept of someone who purchased the product in good faith."

Re:

[AftanGustur (7715)]

Duhh, think a tiny bit and you'l see that this is actually a *political* case.

Russia has been trying for years to join the WTO and the USA has been blocking it's attempts, mainly on the bases that it doesn't enforce US copyright (When a commercial entity can manipulate foreign policy in this way, there is a problem) and this copyright case in mainly to demonstrate the will of the Russian government to enforce copyright and the said case is seen as a test example.

The sad thing is that the teacher, from

More the system than the individual

[edwardpickman (965122)]

This is more about "Russia" using pirated software than the teacher. The teacher is being made the scapegoat for the system. What he's really asking for is Microsoft to look the other way when Russia uses their unlicensed software to benefit the country. It's a sticky question and should be handled more from a marketing standpoint. The problem is just how big a market is Russia for legitimate copies of Microsoft software? If nearly all is pirated and the Russian government is using classrooms to promote it's use then it's benefitting Russia but not Microsoft should Microsoft stand by and let it happen? The teacher shouldn't be prosecuted no matter what because it's fairly obvious officials were aware he was using and I'm sure many are doing the same. The point ultimately is if Russia can't aford or is unwilling to pay for the software should they still have the rights to use it? Does it create an unfair advantage when they have workers learning to use software on pirate copies that will in turn work for a fraction of the cost of US and Europeon programmers? These type of practices put the west at a massive disadvantage. The company I work with wants to outsource our current joint venture to foreign programmers to save money. I'm against it but I got overruled. I'd rather see people paid properly for their work where ever they are but more and more companies will be taking advantage of cheap foreign programmers. Eventually to compete most will have no choice.

Dear Mister Gate

[by Anonymous Coward]

you are friend no? i like friend and you microsoft software. if you like i upload picture of my sister make sex to internet for you.

i am use your software for free because we very poor in kazakhstan. if sue for pirate i have my hand cut off and not upload pictures of my sister make sex. i am very poor to buy software and only own 1 goat but if you like i upload picture of make sex with goat. you like huh?

you friend,

Borat Sagdiyev

Microsoft declined

[HappyDrgn (142428)]

From another source, it would seem Microsoft is not interested in helping Gorbachev...

"Microsoft on Monday rebuffed a public appeal by Mikhail Gorbachev for its chairman, Bill Gates, to intervene on behalf of a Russian school principal charged with software piracy." - http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/05/business/pi rate.php [iht.com]

Using Windows is like having sex with a prostitute

[bigpat (158134)]

You get what you pay for, but you never know what virus you are going to get. Better to get it for free with a faithful and honest Ubuntu.

Seriously, at some point when they start threatening you with being sent to prison in Siberia.... I think it is proving a bit too dangerous to be using Microsoft products. It just isn't remotely worth this type of bullshit.

What is wrong with people?

[turgid (580780)]

Seriously, what is wrong with this guy?

Nowadays we have Free and Open Source Software that is "free and in speech and beer", better quality, more flexible, more useful and more user-friendly than Microsoft's stuff.

There is no excuse for helping yourself to Microsoft's software, other than ignorance and laziness, especially in education, where being a virus vector and consumer of Project documents are not primary concerns.

Shout loud, let the world know.

He didn't know

[cdrguru (88047)]

The primary problem here is "He didn't know he was committing a crime." If we would like the world outside the US and Western Europe to join the rest of the world anytime soon, people have to understand that even if there is no "physical object" it isn't correct to just copy it.

Now, this particular case of enforcement might be a bit over the ability of the offender to pay. However, that is besides the point. The problem is that much of Russia probably doesn't understand. Or, if you pay attention to the Internet, much of Russia probably doesn't care, either.

This isn't just about mega-corporations squeezing the last time from people. This is the whole concept of "intellectual property", rights, restrictions and licensing. These folks probably wouldn't know (or care) what the rules for GPL software are either. So this is not something that does not affect those hating the MPAA and RIAA. It affects anyone that creates something and does not release it completely without restriction to the public domain.

GPL is a restricted and legally obligating license and does not fall under the idea of releasing something completely without restriction to the public domain. Creative Commons licensing is not (usually) the same as releasing to the public domain. BSD licensing is closer but still not the same as "without restriction" in the public domain.

Without some education, these people that just don't know they are doing something wrong will continue and teach children to grow up and violate copyright, the GPL, Creative Commons and every other sort of license you can imagine. Is educating them by sending them to a prison came correct? Maybe not. But just writing it off isn't correct either.

Re:

[b0s0z0ku (752509)]

Without some education, these people that just don't know they are doing something wrong will continue and teach children to grow up and violate copyright, the GPL, Creative Commons and every other sort of license you can imagine. Is educating them by sending them to a prison came correct? Maybe not.

MAYBE not? Uhm, definitely not. Maybe a fine or some community service may be appropriate. But taking the guy away from his family and pupils for years for a crime committed without mens rea - he had bought

Appealing to the wrong place? Or not?

[Sargeant Slaughter (678631)]

Obviously Bill Gates has no control over the Russian judicial system. However, Gorbachev's appeal is more to show the connection between big business and governments around the world. While it may not do anything legally, it certainly paints M$ iin a bad light (and Putin). This is perhaps our only way of fighting powerful corporate interests. We call out the REAL culprits and hurt their image (and perhaps profits) with an expose. If we want to be successful we have to use the media to fight these companies and their desctructive practices. Of course M$ will try to distance themselves from the case.

If this teacher has the backing of people like Gorbachev, I doubt he will spend any time in a gulag. I am a lot more concerned about the poeple who never make it into the headlines...

Putin Running for President of PirateBay

[akpoff (683177)]

"It's ridiculous to just arrest a chap for using computers," he said [bbc.co.uk].

Prison isn't the place for such people

[gilesjuk (604902)]

This is a prime example of big business making out the damage that small scale piracy causes is as serious as murder, drug dealing and physical theft.

Why are people sent to prison for copyright infringement? sure, it can cause lost sales, but the court case should be asked to prove if the accused would have purchased the product otherwise.

When the copyright infringement is on a mass scale, ie. pirate copies duplicated in the thousands and sold, then yes these people have caused damage and should be punished.

The world has really lost it...

[DarkOx (621550)]

There are two major things wrong here.

1. Nobody should do prison time for infriging on a copyright. At least not when said infrigment is not part of a for profit activity. Even if you are one of those people that thinks copyright infringment and theft are not different, we still don't lock people up for shop lifting unless they are repeat offenders. We demand they make restitution and perhaps perform some community service as penence. As I say all the time the crime is not 100 times worse just because a computer was somehow used.

*yes this guy should be punished, just not so severly.

2. The other group of people want to argue that boohoo he can't afford Windows and other proprietary software and neither can alot of people in less well off parts of the world therfore they should be entitled. Look I think software copyrights and patents are lame, but for now the law is the law. You might and in my opinion probably are morally justified in brakeing it, especially if its in the name of makeing a social statement but if you do then you have to face the concequences. This is not like food or medicine nobody *needs* Windows period. If someone is only licensing their software/media for money you have choices, pay for it, infringe on it and take your chances, make your own, do without, or find a FOSS replacement.

*No we should not just let him off because he is the little guy getting screwed by big corporations and governments.

Those writing the curriculums are at fault.

[delire (809063)]

Any education involving computers practically demands piracy as a function of learning these days. I doubt there's a graphic design course in the world whose course fees are more than the total cost of software students do their homework on, let alone film, architecture or engineering degrees. Whole desktop computers cost less than a Photoshop license these days.

The root of the problem is that forced use of proprietary software in education will always lead to this 'theft', whether teacher, student or both. Most students and most schools are barely getting by.

Re:

[Nicholas Evans (731773)]

Last time I checked, software piracy is a copyright issue, not an issue of material theft. Microsoft is not the 'item manufacturer' in this case; they're the copyright holder. As such, Bill Gates is very relevant to this matter.

Re:oh no!

[ettlz (639203)]

Whoa! Do those GULAGs still exist??? I thought they were done away with!

All those MP3 files didn't type their contents into those Russian redistribution sites by themselves, you know.

Re:

[b0s0z0ku (752509)]

It would make more sense to petition the Russian Parole Board if they still have it.

Or just collect to bribe the warden US$50k to allow the inmate to 'disappear'?

-b.