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How Best Buy Tried To Whip The Geek Squad Into Shape
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Nov 30, 2007 05:30 PM
from the deeply-shocked-by-the-lack-of-subtlety dept.
from the deeply-shocked-by-the-lack-of-subtlety dept.
The Consumerist site is featuring a follow-up to their Geek Squad porn collectors story, a feature we discussed back in July. According to Consumerist, Best Buy set up their own rigorous internal investigation to catch the culprits soon after these revelations became public. At that point, of course, employee morale went out the window. Draconian interrogation methods were apparently used, and innocent employees lost their jobs. "There were three Geek Squad members fired from my store including myself. The first two were fired for burning a non-copyrighted CD for another employee on a non company issued blank CD-R. I admitted in my interrogation that I was aware of this, and that I stopped these events after that occurrence. I was fired for being aware of this non copyrighted CD being copied. To quote, I did not provide the proper example of leadership. Keep in my mind I removed over 100 illegal tools and pirated discs upon my arrival as supervisor, as well as some remnants of an internal porn scandal."
Related Stories
[+]
Best Buy 'Geek Squad' Accused of Pirating Software 476 comments
Alien54 writes "Texas software company Winternals Software LP has sued Best Buy Co. Inc. in federal court, alleging that the nation's largest consumer electronics retailer was using unlicensed versions of its diagnostic equipment. Best Buy's Geek Squad, is alleged to be using pirated versions of the software since talks on a commercial licensing agreement broke off. A restraining order has been granted."
[+]
IT: Consumerist Catches Geek Squad Stealing Porn 686 comments
mekane8 writes "Consumer-advocate blog Consumerist ran a sting operation to catch a Best Buy Geek Squad member searching for and stealing media files from a customer's computer. The article includes the story with screen captures and a video of the technician's actions. From that piece: 'Reached for comment, Geek Squad CEO Robert Stephens expressed desire to launch an internal investigation and said, "If this is true, it's an isolated incident and grounds for termination of the Agent involved." This is not just an isolated incident, according to reports from Geek Squad insiders alleging that Geek Squad techs are stealing porn, images, and music from customer's computers in California, Texas, New Jersey, Virginia and elsewhere. Our sources say that some Geek Squad locations have a common computer set up where everyone dumps their plunder to share with the other technicians.' A related story from a former Geek Squad employee details the decline of the Geek Squad and Best Buy ethics in general."
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Best Buy needs wasps. (Score:5, Funny)
Heck, I'll make my own Geek Squad. With hookers, and blackjack...
Re:Best Buy needs wasps. (Score:5, Funny)
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Butlers (Score:5, Insightful)
While I did smile at your joke, I would mod your post insightful. As I said the last time this got brought up, techs are like doctors or lawyers, [slashdot.org] without the years of rigorous training or state ethics boards.
But there's a reason Doctors and Lawyers cost so much. Do we really want $350/hr computer technicians?
(Pauses for "Have you checked Best Buy's prices lately?" comment.)
Well, however you feel about it, if you don't either (a)know how to fix it yourself or (b)know someone you genuinely trust to fix it for you, don't put sensitive data on your hard drive. Until we perfect that whole zombie thing, you're SOL, no matter how crazy Best Buy goes on their $13/hr technicians.
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Re:Butlers (Score:5, Funny)
As a computer technician I say yes, absolutely.
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Re:Butlers (Score:5, Funny)
(and while I'm dreaming of writing up an invoice big enough to make a DoD contract agent drop his jaw in fear... well, I'd like a pony while I'm at it.)
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Re:Butlers (Score:5, Funny)
I would imagine that their Accounts Payable department would be more shocked. But then again, maybe actually understanding the difference between 'receivable' and 'payable' is the reason why the "beancounters" typically make good wages.
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Re:Butlers (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Butlers (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Butlers (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Butlers (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Butlers (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd gather that most people who pay $15/hour for tech service have never had a major data/security failure. $350/hr tech service is cheap if your data is worth that much. I'd guess that even for most people, this holds true, though they don't realize it. when they do, it'll be to late!!
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Re:However you have to remember the other side (Score:5, Funny)
Please use google to lookup "Liberal Arts Majors"
What do you call a liberal arts major? "Check please!"
Badabing!
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Re:Butlers (Score:5, Insightful)
Do we really want $350/hr computer technicians?
As a computer technician I say yes, absolutely.
I don't. It is for the same reason we don't use $100/hour TV repairmen. It's cheaper to replace it than fix it. I used to fix VCR's and Camcorders when they were well over $500 items. Now that many of them can be replaced for about 2 hours of labor or less, I have found other employment. Be careful what you wish for. You might get it and have no work.
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Re:Butlers (Score:5, Insightful)
No, but $100-200/hour depending on the skill levels required sounds perfectly acceptable to me.
I was priced out of the market in computer and networking repair in my area because of every Joe and Sally who'd taken a crash course, read a few books or were just "the smart computer person" in their house opening up shop and charging ridiculously low rates for repair work.
Sure, for on-site work I was billing myself out at $60/hr and they were billing out at $20/hr. Sounds great, right? Sure it does; until you realize it takes them 5 hours to perform the tasks I can perform in 1 and mine won't be a cobbled together nightmare.
Sure, a few clients realized this and called us back in to fix the problems these cheap techs caused them (usually more problems than solutions) but it simply wasn't enough. We couldn't compete with the prices, we couldn't stand (or afford) to contract ourselves out for such low rates and we wouldn't dream of resorting to the tactics these places used to ensure job security (namely "leave behinds").
I've said for years that there should be a standard body for establishing credentials for computer technicians that includes proof of skills and semi-annual retesting to ensure skills development matches the pace of the industry and that a standardized set of fees should be established by this body to be charged by its members. If an organization chooses to have their work done by a non-member they do so at their own peril.
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Re:Butlers (Score:5, Interesting)
You mean something like CompTIA? [comptia.org]
I've mentioned this guy before; he had graduated from a local technical school and was even a card-carrying A+ tech. As this school had the reputation of "pay to pass", I decided to test him, and pointing at an open box, asked him to point at the motherboard.
He pointed at the case. I repeated the question, wording it differently.
He pointed back at the case.
Standards organizations only work when they're not cash-oriented, and there's always some unscrupulous ninny willing to trade cash for sheepskins...
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Diploma mills (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean something like CompTIA?
I've mentioned this guy before; he had graduated from a local technical school and was even a card-carrying A+ tech. As this school had the reputation of "pay to pass", I decided to test him, and pointing at an open box, asked him to point at the motherboard.
No, I specifically avoided mentioning them because I firmly believe their organization and the certificates they provide aren't worth the paper they're printed on (even if they provided PDF files). It's also widely known amongst the technically literate which "schools" are little more than diploma factories (if you pay your $8 grand, hell, here's your diploma! You're now educated!) I've dealt with way too many "I have ${cert} so I'm qualified to make six figures! Hire me or your company will wither and die!" types to mention.
My boss informed one of them that he should be a garbage man. See, he was trying to string together an ethernet LAN without using a hub or switch (because that's wrong, or something) but instead by installing two network cards in each of the fifteen computers and cabling them one to the next to the next in a lovely bastardization of, I dunno, token ring with ethernet with thinnet with ...
What we need is a professional standards body that actually measures skills and mandates periodic skills reviews to maintain certification according to accepted industry guidelines. Practical examinations as well as an apprenticeship period would be preferable to ensure capability.
If I'm not mistaken, one can still go out and buy a CompTIA A+ certification book, schedule a time to take the test and be certified without ever actually opening the case on a computer, which was also the cause of the complete industry-wide invalidation of the MCSE certification when it came out.
Take for example Cisco certs (yeah yeah); the CCNA means nothing in a practical sense, but it does indicate that you have some grounding in networking fundamentals. Ok. So you can assist our network techs and troubleshoot problems at the LAN level. After a couple years experience you write the CCNP test. Now you're able to move into the bigger office and assist our WAN techs and touch the real routers. A few years of this and you enroll in the CCIE program. Combine that with 10+ years in the trenches and suddenly four letters mean you can pretty much write your own ticket.
However if you somehow do manage to aquire even a CCIE but don't have a decades worth of relevant experience you may as well have saved yourself the few grand and just written your CCNA because, hey, you're our new tape switcher.
Combine all this certification nonsense with HR people and management who don't understand anything about the computer industry but who do recognize "industry recognized certification body" and associate it with "skilled professional" and make the leap to "qualified for this position" and you have a very large disconnect from reality, compound that a million fold and welcome to today.
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Sorry, wouldn't be enough (Score:4, Interesting)
1: What you do is persuade your local representative that government contracts require the professional certification.
2: You persuade your representative that certification is required to practice at all.
3: That's when you hit paydirt. Profit!!!
The key to profit is scarcity. Induced naturally, by law or by whatever means you can arrange. It's how the doctors and lawyers have arranged to become wealthy.
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Re:Sorry, wouldn't be enough (Score:4, Insightful)
That's part of the problem with not having any sort of standardized governing body from the start. The cost of entry to IT is effectively the cost of either a home PC setup and an Internet connection, a couple books, the cost to sit for an A+ exam, etc. In other words, the cost is practically nil. Hence we have every high school/college kid or every burger flipper with a home PC and broadband (or dial-up in the beginning) thinking they're qualified to be a computer / network technician.
Then comes the dot-com era. Techies are suddenly glamorous and anybody can make $75k/year out of high school, or if you graduate college/university you can walk into six figures straight away! Dilute that to include anybody with an MCSE, A+ et al. and you've got this massive influx of students into any educational facility or diploma mill that's accepting tuition cheques and we have this enormous surplus of "graduates" who now believe themselves qualified.
In a way that killed us. HR departments and hiring managers never really, truly knew what to look for in terms of certifications. Experience was up in the air because so much technology was so new who could put a time frame on it, and how well did you learn it in the time you had with it? Remember back in '97 all those ads requiring "Minimum 5 years experience with Microsoft Windows'95"?
QuantumRiff mentioned plumbers and I'm afraid in a multitude of ways he couldn't be more wrong. The prescribed method to gain full journeyman status in any skilled trade is exactly what he said and it's there for good reason. First you have to prove yourself educated and intelligent enough to gain entry which narrows the field right off the blocks. Next you have to gain your hours of apprenticeship working in the field with actual, experienced professionals. Yes, you have to earn your stripes doing B.S. work which will include coffee and lunch runs, sweeping floors and all the other crap jobs that come along. But hey, some day you'll have your own apprentice to do the same exact thing. Everybody went through it, new people are no exception. During the course of your apprenticeship you have to attend mandatory school sessions teaching gradually more and more advanced materials which you can now relate to your actual on-the-job experience so what your experienced bosses are telling you starts to make sense.
After your 4-5 years and your x000 hours of service (with increasing pay every year, mind you) you're now a full-fledged plumber, electrician, mechanic, glazier, mason, etc. Now, if this were the case with computer / IT professionals - don't you think there'd be much fewer of [us|them] out there, namely the unqualified sort? The few who remained would logically command a much higher pay scale and who knows, maybe this (digital) world would even be a better place for it. :)
As a side note to QuantumRiff; have you ever experienced a house with improper plumbing/venting? Ever experienced sewer gas creeping into the building, killing all the residents? Ever had a toilet back up so severely there is literally 8" deep raw sewage covering the floor? Ever taken a shower and been scalded to the point of permanent disfigurement?
Yeah, didn't think so. Next time you have a problem with your skilled tradesman, keep it the hell to yourself.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That's the traditional thing to do when faced with a field where skilled, expert labor cannot compete with unskilled labor doing the same jobs.
I was never a fan of organized labor as a negotiation tool - it's full of lose-lose situations, like whether to allow an airline's retirement benefits to lapse or allow the company to go bankrupt (resulting in those benefits being cut).
But it has two other roles
As a political action group, it can achieve things that no amount
Re:Butlers (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Butlers (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know about you, but adherence to moral principles is worth a whole lot more to me than a measly $1-2k extra annually. You misrepresent the anti-union group's arguments by casting the issue in purely financial terms.
Anyway, $100 a month ($1200 annually) for $1000 return would be a rather poor deal even without considering the strong moral and ethical arguments against coercing others out of work for your own benefit.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You think you pay that much just for privacy? Hell, pay me $350/hr and I will keep your secrets. Nah brother, what we need are techs who are honest and ethics because that is right.
Re:Butlers (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Best Buy needs wasps. (Score:5, Insightful)
Are they going to do that? Goes without saying, the answer is no. Running a group of techies, especially bench techs, is like herding teenagers. They're all going to think they're smarter than you, they're all going to know the "right way" to do everything, and they're not going to listen to some low tech Bob whose community college associates degree entitles him to a big sexy manager job at best buy.
Just another example of a big corporation trying to expand into a field it doesn't know a damn thing about.
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Re:Best Buy needs wasps. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Honestly, I blame the consumers, they get what they deserve. Mechanics and Plumbers get paid more than computer techs, yet the computer field is more complex and changes faster. Why does anyone expect anything other than ignorant juvenile behavior for less th
Re:Best Buy needs wasps. (Score:5, Insightful)
Once you can sit at a desk with a CEO and help him format his confidential IPO document but don't read one word in the process, you have succeeded.
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In becoming the wasp? (Score:3, Insightful)
Doing all the right things (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Doing all the right things (Score:5, Insightful)
Because the whole problem that BestBuy had was techs copying material from customer computers. It sounds like the rule was "no copying of CDs, period" because that's a clear bright-line rule that is easy to enforce. If a CD is being copied then there's a problem. The alternative rule ("no copying unless you can prove it's yours") introduces a nightmare of proof and its own maze of privacy violations: if a supervisor suspects that a CD of personal data is being copied then he'd have to look through the files on it, which could be the employee's personal files or the customer's personal files. Inevitably there would be disputes as to whether the files could be copied or not ("I swear I was just copying software, not documents, from the customer's computers" or "this is my friend Billy's computer and he said it'd be OK") and the problem wouldn't get solved.
In large organizations with a bunch of employees, bright-line rules are fair for everyone as long as they're well-publicized. Employees know exactly what behavior is and is not allowed, and the company can protect the privacy of its customers.
Look for a new job, kid. It sucks that you lost this one, but there are a lot of better jobs out there.
Parent
Whips and geeks, oh my (Score:4, Funny)
Warmest regards,
CmdrTaco
Wrongful Dismissal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
IANAL, but my understanding is: in the US, if you don't have a contract (and it's a pretty safe bet that Best Buy employees don't), then you're employed "At Will", and may be terminated for (almost) any reason at any time -- although it varies by a small. It's very, very hard to successfully sue for wrongful termination of at-will employment, short of cases of gross discrimination -- blatant, documented racism, sexism, or something along those lines.
h [wikipedia.org]
Suggested google search (Score:4, Informative)
Suggestion: wrongful termination [google.com]
Or try "employment lawyer." Beware: the US is largely employment-at-will. So, unless you're a minority, pregnant/a woman, handicapped, over 50, or in the military...you're pretty much screwed.
Shame, as it wasn't always that way [rbs2.com], and the US is one of the few places where at-will employment is the norm.
Re:Suggested google search (Score:5, Informative)
The Best Buy situation described here is far different than that of a small cafe owner like myself, and the situation at hand was much more complicated than those that I deal with. For instance, in the case of the oblivious employee I mentioned, I caught her sitting in the sun with her boyfriend when she was supposed to be out on a delivery. It wouldn't have been so bad, except that the other four people back at the cafe were up to their eyebrows in deliveries backing up because she hadn't returned, and we had a line of customers at the counter. This was after several instances of stern discussions with said employee about her insubordinate attitude, being late all the time, and lack of focus. When I fired her, I explained simply that, "it isn't working out," and that was the end.
I, for one, am glad for the at-will employment laws. But, as with anything, they can be abused.
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Re:Suggested google search (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're fired because you're white, you have a claim, just as you would if you were fired because you're black. If you're fired because you're a man, you have a claim, just as you would if you were fired because you're a woman. If you're fired because you're not pregnant (that'd be an interesting situation), you have a claim, just as you would if you were fired because you were pregnant. If you're fired because you're Christian, you have a claim, just as you would if you were fired because you're Discordian.
On the other hand, discrimination on the basis of age is only actionable for any age over 50 (so if you were fired because the company preferred to have 60 year olds instead, you'd have a claim, but not if you were fired because of your youth below the age of 50). The ADA only covers the disabled, so there's no recourse there if you're fired because you're not disabled, and while I haven't dealt with military discrimination in the past, I believe the law is structured in a similar manner (it would depend on whether it was written as barring "discrimination on the basis of military status" or something similar, or if it was written as barring discrimination against people because of their current status in the armed forces).
More on-topic, at-will employment does indeed suck.
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Re:Suggested google search (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Suggested google search (Score:4, Informative)
Discrimination due to sexual orientation or gender identity or whatever related to it is not protected everywhere. In fact, it's not protected in many states.
http://www.actwin.com/eatonohio/gay/gayri.htm/ [actwin.com]
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"Non-copyrighted"? (Score:5, Interesting)
What do you mean by "non-copyrighted"?
Re:"Non-copyrighted"? (Score:5, Interesting)
There's "open source" (and other licenses that permit copying), "fair use", "copied by copyright owner" that would all be legal, and very occasionally "public domain".
But the copyright always belongs to someone, even if they have licensed that right widely.
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So at Best Buy... (Score:5, Insightful)
So at Best Buy you show your management potential by collecting scalps. How is this different from too many other places?
One-sided guess (Score:5, Insightful)
Still, it is only one side of the story and I don't know the author of the same so I'm basing my speculation on his word.
After an embarrassing corporate incident, it's easier to look "tough on crime" and fire somebody than actually fixing the problem. "Yes, we had a security incident a while ago. 200 employees were fired as a result. We take this things seriously".
Not Suprised (Score:5, Informative)
A few minutes later, he comes in with one of the assistant managers with him, they both sit down and hand me a clipboard with paper and pen. They ask for me to write down everything I've stolen. I'm like, WTF? I haven't stolen anything is my only reply to every question. The LP guy kept getting in my face, yelling and moaning that I've stolen something. He gets pissed and threatens to call the police, I say, call them, I'd love to explain to them your false accusations without any proof even if I did steal something.
The LP guy leaves and the manager there has nothing to say. Granted, I was shocked cause it was the only manager I liked. The only thing I said at that moment was, "I've lost all respect for you at this time!"
So the LP guy comes back and then threatens with police and polygraph test, I'm all open for the idea, this just pissed him off more. We exchange more words, he keeps demanding I write down everything I've stolen so I just dropped the damn clipboard and pen. I proceed to tell them, if you have nothing on me as I have not stolen anything, I'm leaving. LP guy walks out again all pissed, comes back in a few minutes and tells me I'm suspended til further notice. He escorts me out.
By the time I get home, I get a call from a co-worker who's pissed off and tells me the same exact story. They pulled him in right after me, same type of interrogation. We later found out they did this to all but 2 employees in the Audio/Car Audio department. 6 out of the 8 that is.
If we go back in time a little, they were opening a new store and had others help out from the surrounding stores. Guess which 6 helped, the 6 let go. While we were helping the store, they said we would get paid retro type pay since the other store didn't have us in their system. So we determined this was just a way for them to just not pay us after we kept insisting on our paychecks from the overnight work and days off we spent at the other store.
Funny to think two weeks later we show up for our final check and they tell us we've been fired, our only response was, "Really, cause we already found other jobs, why would we want to work here after what happened?"
We all talked to a lawyer but the amount owed he said just wasn't worth it to sue.
Moral of the story, Best Buy = Shitty Place to Work
Never lose the fire in your stare (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're going to lose your job anyways over something you didn't do, take the time to put a black mark on their record as well. If you don't get fired (as you've put them in a place where all eyes are looking to see if they do the right thing), it's the last time anyone will accuse you of anything you didn't do. Ever.
These type of people are bullies, and they get away with whatever they want until someone calls their bluff and one-ups them. They always pull you aside since they have no authority in a group; the more public you make the whole ordeal, the less power they have. Even if it's a crap job, the experience will pay off later down the road.
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Re:Not Suprised (Score:4, Informative)
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Welcome... (Score:3, Interesting)
As the years go by, you'll recognize that this type of behavior is normal. The company that I work at reorgs every 12-months with random no-cause firings in between.
Don't try to understand it. "Right" and "wrong" are concepts that cannot apply.
Dude I feel for you, BUT (Score:4, Insightful)
It is quite difficult to tell from your remarks how far you went in stopping this. Point of fact, you were in a supervisory position, it was YOUR JOB to nail anyone to the corporate cross for doing anything that even remotely resembled breaking the privacy rules or repeating the previous behavior.
The bottom line is this: When someone hires you to work on their computer, your job is to fix it not snoop around, not make copies of anything unless it is to preserve their data, and then you hand the customer the CD!
I am consultant. I work on large systems and networks which frequently requires me to have ROOT passwords, all access, ect. I don't peek, I don't poke, I don't even ponder what might be hidden away on some corner of the corporate hard drive. I do the job I am being paid to do and wrap it up.
If you get another job in a supervisory position of technical people who work on other peoples computers, especially if its ala GeekSquad, I suggest that you immediately, if not sooner, burn anyone you catch doing something like that, tack their hide up on the wall as an example for others and do your job.
My guess is that the people who found their shit other then where they kept it are hiring or have hired lawyers and that Best Buy / GeekSquad are going to be dragged into court and taken to the cleaners for a lot of money.
Re:Ha! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Hehehehe. You've clearly never shopped at Fry's. The advantages there are that they have inventory and good specials. Otherwise the salespeople are the same caliber as what you find at BB/CC/CompUSA, but they think that they're better than their counterparts. This always leads to moments where you cringe when you hear one of them giving tech advice to other customers. But if you have a question for them, just expect the same blank stares you get at th
Re:Time for a Computer Workers Union?? (Score:4, Insightful)
We could, but the question is - would you really want to?
I mean, Unions are great for certain career fields, but this ain't one of them. While yes a Union would curb management excess, it also tends to retard employee excellence.
Case in point - Seniority. You, I, and pretty much most folks who think it through know full well that time-on-the-job does not equal competency-on-the-job. Problem is, most Union shops (I've worked in a few as a member) eat, sleep, and breathe Seniority. This means that merit no longer counts.
Admittedly, these obstacles are few, but some of them can be rather large ones.
Go on strike? Err, why, because some poor bastard in some other company or division thereof got a raw deal by some jackass manager? Screw that. I saw something similar as a teacher once. The whole damned state union (UEA) wanted to walk out on a week of school days, because they only got a modest annual raise instead of a large one... Meanwhile, I had just got on, and had fully negotiated my own salary and benefits --to my satisfaction-- before I accepted the position; just like each and every one of them could have done (Utah state law fully allows this).
I don't know... I guess I just prefer the free agency of it all. I like the fact that I can advance without waiting for someone ahead of me to die off or retire. I like being able to move into a senior position at a new place without having to pay the dues (both monetary and otherwise), or being locked into something I know I can get a better deal out of - if only I am allowed to negotiate it independently. If I want to do something after-hours, I can (okay, sometimes it's a have-to deal, but I knew that going in and I get paid overtime for such cases, so...)
Anyrate, it's a whole other culture, and not exactly the panacea that it appears to be. Having been in good Unions (Ironworkers, local 493) and bad (Utah Educators Ass'n), I know that it's a whole other world that what most folks expect.
(and if you think outsourcing is ugly now - just wait'll the PHB's realize you gave them a friggin' union to deal with. Your job will disappear faster than grain alcohol in a frat house).
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