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Feds Have Access To Cellphone Tracking On Request
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Nov 23, 2007 03:17 PM
from the always-fun-to-carry-your-phone dept.
from the always-fun-to-carry-your-phone dept.
Mike writes "According to a Washington Post article, federal officials are routinely asking and getting courts to order cellphone companies to furnish real-time tracking data on subscribers. The data is used to pinpoint the whereabouts of 'criminal suspects', according to judges and industry lawyers. In some cases, judges have granted the requests without even requiring the government to demonstrate probable cause that a crime is taking place or that the inquiry will yield evidence of a crime 'Privacy advocates fear such a practice may expose average Americans to a new level of government scrutiny of their daily lives. Such requests run counter to the Justice Department's internal recommendation that federal prosecutors seek warrants based on probable cause to obtain precise location data in private areas. The requests and orders are sealed at the government's request, so it is difficult to know how often the orders are issued or denied.'"
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US Justice Dept. Sued For Cellular Tracking Information 75 comments
tpaudio writes "The ACLU and the EFF are suing the Department of Justice over how the government might be using GPS and location data from cell phones. With over 200 million Americans carrying cell phones, this could be pretty important for setting guidelines. We have already seen other frightening powers related to cell phones, such as 'cell mic tapping.'"
The ACLU press release is also available, and it contains links to the complaint and the Freedom of Information Act request. We've previously discussed instances of cell phone tracking in the US and elsewhere.
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This just in (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This just in (Score:5, Interesting)
The biggest problem with your attempt at humor is the fact that people used to talk about tinfoil hats when people SUGGESTED something like this could happen, now people are delegated to the tinfoil hat crowd for COMPLAINING about this stuff happening.
When will it get to the point where the people who AREN'T paranoid about being constantly watched are mocked as the fools? Or is this subtle transition between 'you're crazy, that'll never happen' and 'what are you worried about, you're not a terrorist are you?' all the recognition the tinfoil hat people get for being right all along?
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Re:This just in (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:This just in (Score:5, Insightful)
Or a conservative constitutional scholar.
http://www.americanfreedomagenda.org/ [americanfr...agenda.org]
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There is no right or wrong answer. I'm curious to what people really think when presented with an opinion like this.
Can we just have a revolution and get it over with (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Can we just have a revolution and get it over w (Score:2, Insightful)
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Re:Can we just have a revolution and get it over w (Score:2)
The Corps and the rich folks behind them are trying to sneak control and $ away from the people gradually so that Joe Apathetic doesn't see anything wrong until it's too late. When they'll be done, the US will look like the Alphaverse in Charlie_Jade. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Jade)
I doubt it will happen because Greedy people can only hold back for so long...
Re:Can we just have an election and get it over wi (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Can we just have a revolution and get it over w (Score:2)
When the actions of the government affect the TV viewing and high fructose corn syrup eating of the American public. Until then? Everyone will continue to sit on their asses smiling that they did "great work" at their pointless jobs and consider themselves
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Every day it's either some government agency or some giant corp that is tightening the screws on US citizens. When will there be a tipping point where Joe Apathetic says "enough!" and takes to the streets?
I'll tell you the answer, but you won't like it.
The reason people are apathetic about these things is because it doesn't affect normal citizens to any great extent. There will ALWAYS be government abuses -- that's just the nature of power. The question is whether there are widespread enough abuses to
Another Reason (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Another Reason (Score:4, Insightful)
But I wonder, can "they" track me even when I turn the "feature" off? Maybe "they" see through the little camera on the phone? Can "they" hear waht I'm saying even when the phone is "closed"?
Anyway, I'm off to the store to buy more aluminum foil (with cash in coin form, of course)...
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Even on older phones without GPS features, they still have an idea where you are by which cell tower your phone is connected to. sure, its not as accu
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Sometimes paranoia == talking out of one's ass.
Re:Another Reason (Score:4, Interesting)
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/12/can_you_hear_me.html [abcnews.com]
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Grow up kid. This is not your 1960s USA.
This is 2007. What the companies and government say is false.
Re:Another Reason (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes. From 2006. [abcnews.com]
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Ooooh! Try this: since all calls "may be monitored for quality," how about a random process that connects random government employee's phones to a 900 number that anyone can call? $1.99 a minute, and maybe you get to listen in on an IRS auditor, or a petty drone, or maybe, just maybe, your own Senator or Congre
About time (Score:3, Insightful)
What moron doesn't know they can buy a throw away cell from Walmarts for cash?
If you're dumb enough to be a crook AND use a traceable (i.e. contracted) cell phone you deserve what you get.
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somebody log in and repeat this (Score:5, Interesting)
A car was stolen by three guys, and the guys rammed a police car during the chase.
The police opened fire on the vehicle, killing the driver. They also wounded one of two other guys in the car who bailed and ran off into the night.
Here's the part that made me take notice: The news guy said that by using the cellphone number of the driver, they located and captured the other two guys within 20 minutes... by using location tracking of the fugitive's cellphones.
Considering that a) the driver was dead and b) they didn't know who the other two guys were when they bailed out of the car and took off, 20 minutes seemed awfully fast. But how can you track down a cell phone's location without knowing the number or who the owner is?
This means (obviously) that there must be an easily accessible database tracking both caller history (to find out who you called, or called you) AND those people's current locations. I knew things like this were in place for DHS and the FBI (a lot of bank robbers get caught because they have cell phones on them or in their cars), but that local LE had access to this stuff was a surprise.
That means that you and I, joe geek guy, are already in this thing.
Pretty cool, huh? It's *way* too late for tinfoil.
what I really wish... (Score:4, Insightful)
The government only does this stuff because they feel like they can get away with it, that's what kills me.
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Seems like they can.
"on request" (Score:2)
It may even be eaiser than you think (Score:2)
1. Cellphones can be tracked very accurately.
2. Government can tap the records at will.
3. Bank robbery happens at 4th and main.
4. Police notify FBI.
5. FBI calls the cell carriers and says "we need all active numbers in grid 34,53 at 12:03 pm when a robbery occurred" List please.
6. FBI asks for the above mentioned numbers, "Which moved away from grid 34,53 at 12:05 at where are they now" List Please.
7. FBI asks what was the duration of movement, and speed of numbers in list
Inevitable (Score:4, Interesting)
Call me paranoid, but I still think that the above is a rational assessment given historical evidence.
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Humanities doesn't have the same weight as science because they haven't found a way to kill people with it yet. Yet. [youtube.com]
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Judges should demand a modicum of evidence (Score:3, Insightful)
A real judge that does his job will slow things down to make sure only people who really should be under surveillance are put under surveillance.
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But your physical location, your comings and goings, that's not a "person" or a "thing" to be "seized", so no worries, right? And the fact that the government asked for this info
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Do you want to be know as the guy who made someone explode? Somebody do humanity a favor and mod this down for another ten minute or so.
If you didn't get the tongue in cheek there, Good point.
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This doesn't require GPS to the best of my (limited) knowledge.
The cell phone needs to be in contact with a tower in order to have a signal. For billing purposes, they need to know who you are.
I think this works far more through radio triangulation than GPS. GPS, however, probably makes it easier. Of course, it makes one wond
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At least for the commercial applications, the software is designed to require a response from the phone saying in effect "Yes, you can determine my location at this time". The software will then use the GPS in the phone (if it i
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Uh... you realize nearly all phones have both a silent and a vibrate mode.
Moreover, that the ability to locate them like this would be *needed* at all suggests that the phone was at least either silent or off. (Otherwise, they would have just
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That was the reference flying right over your head, just above hairline level.
A few weeks ago, /. had a front-page story called Cell Phone Jamming on the Rise [slashdot.org], talking about how establishments are jamming cell phone frequencies so their customers can have an evening in peace without some idiot yapping away on his cell phone. The sarcasm above was a parody of many of the comments.
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GSM needs to keep track of phone locations very precisely because the primary means of synchronising the phone to the network is by altering the timing advance which tells the phone when to start transmitting.
3G is nowhere near to GSM in terms of location precision. In uses reflected signals in a positive feedback filter to improve the phone signal to noise ratio. If you look at the data before the filter you cannot make sense of it (it is combined wit
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Finally, the REAL reason why just about every phone nowadays comes with a built-in GPS receiver...... so the phone can tell the carrier-- and thus the government-- where it is.......
My phone has an option to turn off GPS unless I dial 911. Are you saying that this feature doesn't really work? Or that the phone company can override it?
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The feature to turn of GPS is likely working. Its reasonably improbable that they'd be able to remotely stealth turn it on.
However, cellphones talk to multiple towers simultaneously. Carriers can a locate a phone relatively accurately even without GPS. Additionally cellphones regularly communicate with the towers to let the network know where it is, so tha
Re:Listen up (Score:4, Insightful)
It's like torture. Newsflash: the people who torture know it doesn't really "work" on (i.e., produce valuable information from) the victims. It's a form of state terrorism -- it works best on the rest of us.
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Re:Listen up (Score:5, Funny)
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