D.C. Commuters to be Scanned With Infrared Cameras

owlgorithm writes "Washington, D.C. area commuters are going to be "scanned like groceries at the supermarket" in order to catch single-occupant vehicles who are illegally using carpool lanes. The article, from the Washington Post, says that infrared cameras capable of detecting human skin will be installed, rather than the visible-spectrum cameras in use today. So much for using dummies in the front seat."

Wait...

[daveschroeder (516195)]

A local municipal government agency, using technology to solve a problem, as part of its charge to the public?

O, the humanity!

Definitely not a new violation of rights

[adatepej (1154117)]

They're just automating an inspection that could have been performed by cops on the ground. I know because I got a ticket for driving in the stupid carpool lane once. And you're already in public in a vehicle where you're, at most, shielded from plain view by a bit of glass. Which is to say you're not shielded from plain view.

So, unless law enforcement plans to use this technology to see something it's not already capable of seeing, e.g. using it to see through the walls of your home, I don't think this is a big deal.

Re:Definitely not a new violation of rights

[ultranova (717540)]

So, unless law enforcement plans to use this technology to see something it's not already capable of seeing, e.g. using it to see through the walls of your home, I don't think this is a big deal.

Dunno about you, but my home has heat insulation in the walls. And in any case, infrared is only slightly more penetrating that visible light, so it couldn't be used for seeing through opaque objects anyway.

Re:Definitely not a new violation of rights

[ultranova (717540)]

There are actually quite good reasons for having it reflect IR.

So it doesn't turn into a dutch oven in August?

Actually, it's the prevention of the passage of infrared waves which causes the greenhouse effect. Light enters through the glass and is absorbed into various surfaces, which heat up as a result; the warm surfaces radiate the heat away in infrared radiation, but if the glass doesn't let them through, they rebound and are reabsorbed back into the surfaces. Since energy keeps entering the system in the form of visual light, but can't exit, the system heats up.

Re:Definitely not a new violation of rights

[parcel (145162)]

They're just automating an inspection that could have been performed by cops on the ground

That's what bothers me more than the privacy aspect of this... the automated law enforcement. Same deal with the red light cameras they put up all over the area (at least, Loudoun and Fairfax counties)... A friend of mine got an automated ticket for being 0.1 seconds under the red. And we have some short yellows, that are difficult to stop for in good conditions. If it was raining, you could easily end up fishtailing into an intersection trying to stop for the silly things.

I've been in a lot of squealing-tires, near-accidents to avoid these cameras in situations that, were the enforcement done by a human being who could apply rational judgement, would be ignored (barring cops on a power trip - and most here seem to be good, rational people).

So, that's exactly what scares me... this general migration towards automated law enforcement.

Re:Definitely not a new violation of rights

[Rob the Bold (788862)]

RTFA: they are not detecting heat signatures, they are shooting IR at the car's passenger locations and judging the returned rays given previously known "reflective properties" of human skin. It may be harder, but less costly (energy wise) to spoof, especially if thin transparent coating for the head-rests with just the right "properties" can be made. No need to heat anything.

Finally a reason to upholster my car with human skin!

But....

[iced_tea (588173)]

The real question is, can it detect BODIES? DEAD BODIES???

**insert evil laugh here***

Re:But....

[some damn guy (564195)]

The real question is, can it detect BODIES? DEAD BODIES???

Good idea, I bet they can, as long as they're still warm.

Still, having to kill a different neighbor every day before work would still be a pain. I mean, not as bad as D.C. traffic, but a pain none the less...

Re:But....

[Wordsmith (183749)]

Why a different one each day? Don't you have a microwave?

Re:But....

[Walt Dismal (534799)]

Introducing the RealDoll AutoBuddy! Anatomically correct and comes with 12VDC cigarette lighter plug and internal heaters. Perfect for driving carpool lanes AND when you get lonely, a little quick sex. Not available in Texas, South Carolina, or any state with deep religious convictions. Male models shipped to San Francisco NOT RETURNABLE. Overseas models available: Saudi Arabia, order model RealDoll BurqaBuddy (available only in black). For Iraq, order model RealDoll InsurgentBuddy (rides with you in passenger seat but quickly deflates if Blackwater employees spotted). For Germany, order Realdoll AutobahnBuddy, designed to tolerate braking from 180 MPH to 0 in 6 seconds, using chest-mounted airbags. (Indistinguishable on close inspection from a German barmaid.)

Re:But....

[elrous0 (869638)]

What I want to know is: If this thing is being used in Washington, DC how are they going to deal with all the politicians and lobbyists? As cold-blooded and cold-hearted as they are, there is no way a thermograph is going to pick THEM up.

Re:Wait...

[arivanov (12034)]

Anti-illegal immigrant technology actually. Used mostly to look for stowaways in luggage and cargo.

Interesting

[wasted (94866)]

From the summary:

So much for using dummies in the front seat.

If we get rid of dummies in the front seat, half of the cars on my way to work would be driverless.

Re:Interesting

[Heir Of The Mess (939658)]

So much for using dummies in the front seat

In Jakarta you just pay an unemployed person standing on the sidewalk $1 to ride with you to work. At certain times single occupant cars aren't even allowed on the road. The dude then gets another $1 to ride back with someone else. There's queues of these people waiting at highway entrances waiting to get a $1 to ride with you.

Slug Lines

[ToasterMonkey (467067)]

In DC/northern Virginia, and probably elsewhere, they're called "Slug Lines". Very employed people use them, and whole parking lots are set up near the interstate for people to park, and wait in line for another commuter to take them the rest of the way to DC via the HOV lane. Web sites are available to help arrange car pools if you don't like hopping in with just anyone. The biggest slug line downtown is probably at the Pentagon, but I think there are others. I don't know if Maryland has any.

This makes a whole lot more sense because it actually reduces the number of cars on the road. The HOV lanes are silly anyway, they need a Metro Bus system that doesn't scare away everyone but those with no choice. Or maybe better Metro (light rail) and VRE (commuter train) access. To get to a train station in northern Virginia, you usually have to drive fifteen minutes away from the interstate, through twisty two lane roads, four way stops, and even G^d d*mned subdivisions with 15MPH limits. Every day after work, people huddle near the train doors as it stops, and run to their cars to get out of the parking lot as fast as they can. Few have the luxury of being the first to wait in traffic on the main road or interstate while the rest curse the stupid road planning for what would otherwise be a perfect alternative to spending three hours driving thirty miles up the interstate.

Re:Interesting

[Duhavid (677874)]

The other half will have crashed already.

Re:Interesting

[The-Bus (138060)]

Well, I used to use corpses. So now I will either need to heat them, or make sure they are fresh.

Oh, the things they make me do to avoid traffic.

Solution to Privacy Concerns

[p0tat03 (985078)]

1 - Have a machine vision backend analyze images coming back from cameras, picking out "guilty" cars along with their plates. Discard other data.
2 - Ensure that the code used for this vision system is open to public scrutiny.
3 - Catch the crooks, and the regular folk don't even get recorded to a hard drive at any point.
4 - ???
5 - You know the rest...

Re:Solution to Privacy Concerns

[KillerCow (213458)]

1 - ...Discard other data.

They won't.

2 - ...open to public scrutiny.

It won't.

3 - ...don't even get recorded to a hard drive at any point.

It will.

The problem with this stuff is that there is a constant erosion or privacy. Every step is just one more little thing. What's the big deal about "a" when they are already doing b,c,d,e, and f. And once "a" is gone, you never get it back because the people already accepted giving it up. When people say "we don't have to worry about losing x because people would never accept it" ... well ... I don't think that the forefathers ever thought that people would give up habius corpus, or require national IDs to get into federal parks.

Roman Grammar Nazi to the Rescue

[KKlaus (1012919)]

>>habius corpus

I knew all that my latin in highschool would be useful for something. I just never dared to hope it would be something as important as correcting trivial errors on Slashdot!

Here goes:

Habius might a singular genitive of an irregular noun, or a masculine second family nominate noun, but either way, it isn't "habeas" which is a subjunctive 2nd person singular verb meaning "may you have" [the body].

That felt great. Hail Caesar!

I'd almost bet some money...

[UncleTogie (1004853)]

...that a few things will happen:

1. Burqa-wearing folk will have a field day.

2. Some ninny will don tin-foil to jack with the system. He/she will later collapse from heat.

or

3. Some enterprising yob will try to create a heated, moving dummy. This will culminate in a video shot on the news: "Flaming Car Of Doom in a HOV lane near you....film at 11!"

Re:

[Jeff DeMaagd (2015)]

1. Burqa-wearing folk will have a field day.

They might. I don't think fabric blocks that much IR. A person wearing full-body clothing would still be warmer than a mannequin.

I shouldn't know so much about these

[Scrameustache (459504)]

infrared cameras capable of detecting human skin will be installed, rather than the visible-spectrum cameras in use today. So much for using dummies in the front seat.

Silicone rubber can withstand over 400 degrees of heat. You can soak REALDOLL in a hot bath, or put her under an electric blanket to give it lifelike body heat. [realdoll.com] REALDOLL's silicone flesh retains heat very efficiently.

Detects skin?

[conteXXt (249905)]

Hannibal Lecter: "Why do you think he removes their skins, Agent Starling?"

No more HOV

[StikyPad (445176)]

HOV lanes are fairly pointless as is. It's clear that people are not significantly incentivized to use the carpool lanes. Moreover, conflicting schedules (particularly after work) and the impossibility of spontaneity provide heavy disincentives toward their use. They certainly don't cut down on pollution or fuel consumption as cars spend more time stuck in traffic in the adjacent lanes, or taking longer, more circuitous routes. They don't cut down on traffic, as more cars are forced to fit in fewer lanes. People who live in Arlington or Falls Church, especially, could have to go miles out of the way to get to work, despite having a major traffic artery in their back yards.

The money spent on policing, enforcement, and, in some cases, construction and maintenance of elaborate switching mechanisms to change the direction of traffic in center lanes, could be more efficiently spent toward carbon offsets, and opening the lanes themselves to normal traffic would better accomplish the goal of reducing congestion. Or make the Metro train free to ride; it's already heavily subsidized anyway, and everyone would benefit from increased use. (Of course, capacity would likely need to be increased as well, since they're heavily used already).

Regulating the routes of traffic in an effort to decrease traffic is an exercise in futility. It merely relocates the problem; it does nothing to alleviate it. Traffic is already self-regulating, especially as the distribution of information becomes increasingly streamlined. When one route slows down, people take alternate routes. If the distribution is inequitable, it's because of poor infrastructure design in relation to the population. The cure is redesign, not banishing the overwhelming majority of vehicles from the shortest route between Point A and Point B. It would be one thing if HOV was a stopgap while more effective measures were implemented, but as it stands, it's merely contributing to the problem it claims to resolve.

Here is some backup data...

[NotQuiteReal (608241)]

study that suggests hov lanes don't work [berkeley.edu].

Washington DC

[Slashdot Parent (995749)]

It's clear that people are not significantly incentivized to use the carpool lanes.

Not true at all in the DC area. There are several rideshare organizations and slug lots to accommodate those who want to use the carpool lanes.

Moreover, conflicting schedules (particularly after work) and the impossibility of spontaneity provide heavy disincentives toward their use.

That's why you ave slug lots. People line up in those lots and motorists pick people up from the lines. It doesn't matter if your schedule conflicts with your carpool buddies, because your buddies will be different on the way home.

People who live in Arlington or Falls Church, especially, could have to go miles out of the way to get to work, despite having a major traffic artery in their back yards.

Jumpin' Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick. Please don't tell me you consider I-66 to be a "major traffic artery". Because of Arlington's pigheadedness, Route 50 has more travel lanes through Arlington than Interstate 66.

And anyway, Falls Churchians and Arlingtonians have plenty of roads other than 66 to choose from. Hell, you can't even get onto 66 going Eastbound from half of Arlington, anyhow.

more efficiently spent toward carbon offsets

I've never understood this whole carbon offsets thing. Is there any actual legal framework with teeth in place to force emitters to purchase "carbon credits"?

Even if there was such a thing, I would be against it for this purpose. Why should we prefer to spend our "carbon emition" resources on ParkingLot-66 as opposed to actual production of useful goods? To me, that seems wasteful.

Or make the Metro train free to ride; it's already heavily subsidized anyway, and everyone would benefit from increased use.

DC Metro is already at capacity. You seem to be familiar with Northern VA, so you've probably heard the term "Orange Crush". The Blue line is at capacity as well.

There really isn't much more that Metro can do to increase capacity. They're already running many 8 car trains. What metro really needs to do, that they will never do, is add more tracks. Currently, if there is one "sick passenger" on one train in one direction, the entire metro system gets brought to its knees. This is because that line will have to single-track (trains going in both directions on one track), and the resulting slowdown gums up the other lines as well.

At any rate, I disagree with your assertion that HOV won't change behavior. I know plenty of people who HOV when they otherwise would not. Slug lines further support this position.

What I think may screw the whole thing up is these HOT lanes. I mean, really. People in NoVA have way more money than time. Why should I bother to pick up slugs if I can just pay $5 or whatever and not even have to slow down?

I like it

[TheSync (5291)]

Speaking as a DC area commuter who takes I-95 in Virginia everyday, this is a great idea.

When traffic is heavy, any small distraction can turn into a back-up as the flow phase changes from movement to stoppage.

So on I-95, cops patrol the HOV lanes, and when they find a violator they turn on their lights and pull the miscreant over.

Meanwhile, the very action of turning on their lights and pulling the miscreant over slows down the traffic in the non-HOV lanes, leading to a back-up.

I'd much prefer that HOV violators are detected by camera and mailed tickets than stopped by a police car.

So many suggsted avoidance schemes, but...

[clickety6 (141178)]

So many suggested avoidance schemes, but haven't any of you actually thought that maybe you could just car pool instead? Easy solution and so much better for the environment. Plus you might actually get some stimulating conversation on the way rather than the inane radio DJ chatter ;-)

Re:I envision...

[flyingsquid (813711)]

Put a dog in the front seat. And shave him.

Re:I envision...

[halcyon1234 (834388)]

Forget that. I can heat my inflatable dummies my own damn self. It's called friction. And radiant heat from warm deposits.

Youngsters these days and their high-tech solutions. Yeesh.

Re:I envision...

[Pollardito (781263)]

and you wonder why no one wants to carpool with you...

Re:I envision...

[Cecil (37810)]

Human beings have a rather unique IR signature that is very easily distinguishable from other heat sources.

Human beings also have a rather unique ability to find creative ways to beat challenges like that.

Re:

[MikeJ9919 (48520)]

Oh please...this has nothing to do with government's desire for power...this is about the government's desire for money. It's just like red light cameras, parking meters that reset when you drive away (instead of mechanical meters that continue to run and let someone else piggyback), etc. Yes, the desire for money is intimately related to the desire for power, but it is not the same. Yes, all the technologies I've mentioned have desirable secondary effects (reducing commuter congestion, injuries at intersec

Re:Big Brother

[heinousjay (683506)]

As someone who has commuted in DC, I welcome this. Nothing chapped my ass more than watching a douche take the HOV all on his lonesome. He didn't earn it, he can sit in shit with the rest of us.

Re:Hmm...

[Jello B. (950817)]

No, no, no. You're going about this the wrong way. You've gotta put yourself in the freezer so it looks like nobody's driving. Then they can't give you a ticket, because according to the cameras, you don't exist.

Actually, confusing the camera is a good plan.

[CFD339 (795926)]

Think about how you'd write the code for the machine. Your job is to count -- you have to find at least two distinct signatures. If you find more than one that is distinct, you ignore that car. If you find less than one, what do you do? Probably you consider this a detection error. A thermally reflective glass coating would work. I'd bet a heat pack hand warmer on the dashboard would do it too.

If it were me, I'd try a thermal hand warmer pack on the dashboard by the passenger seat; and maybe one each on a string in the back seat about where heads would be for back seat passengers.

Remember, glass is transparent in the visual spectrum, but can be opaque in the infrared. I know this from using Thermal Imaging Cameras in houses that are on fire. A big living room window can look just like a wall -- or even a mirror -- through the screen of a TIC depending on what outside temperature. You can see the shape of a person on the TIC when what you're looking at is a porcelain shower stall. Your own heat is being reflected back at you.
 

Re:Actually, confusing the camera is a good plan.

[The One and Only (691315)]

Remember, glass is transparent in the visual spectrum, but can be opaque in the infrared. I know this from using Thermal Imaging Cameras in houses that are on fire.

Wow, all I do in houses that are on fire is try not to die. Clearly you are several steps ahead of me.

More seriously, what about children?

[Albanach (527650)]

I've used the HOV lane into DC with a child in an infant seat behind me. The camera isn't going to spot that.

Am I going to have to get sworn affidavits stating the child was with me? Should I take photos on my journey? Are HOV lanes 18+ now?

More seriously, that's not what HOV lanes are for.

[daveschroeder (516195)]

Yes, yes, I know, they don't really specify... ...but hopefully you realize the idea and spirit of HOV lanes is for carpool, multiple passenger commuter, busses, passenger vans, and similar applications, and not someone who happens to be toting a child in an infant seat. :-/

(How did the parent get modded "Insightful"?)

Re:More seriously, that's not what HOV lanes are f

[techno-vampire (666512)]

Are you saying, then, that a parent and child don't qualify for "two or more people" in the car? When did minors stop being people?

Re:More seriously, that's not what HOV lanes are f

[daveschroeder (516195)]

I'm saying, then, that the idea and spirit of HOV lanes is for carpool, multiple passenger commuter, busses, passenger vans, and similar applications, and not someone who happens to be toting a child in an infant seat.

I hope this clears things up.

And to be serious, I don't know what the specific law is in Virginia, Maryland, or Washington, DC, for HOV/HOT lanes. But the idea, purpose, and principle is what I said above, not for someone to be able to get somewhere faster or more conveniently because they have a child with them.

Hmm

[way2trivial (601132)]

http://www.ncdot.org/projects/hov/faqs.html#q2 [ncdot.org]
Do children and infants count as passengers?
Yes. All states with HOV facilities count children and infants as passengers.

Why do children count as passengers in the HOV lane?
The main law governing HOV lane use is WAC 468-510-010. This law merely states "occupants." HOVs may therefore include passengers who are not licensed drivers. These can include senior citizens, people with disabilities, and children as well as other people who do not, or can not, obtain a drivers license for various reasons.

HOVs with non-licensed passengers do not always help to remove cars from traffic. However, one of the Department's considerations in determining HOV eligibility policy is the degree to which the policy will be enforceable by the State Patrol. It can already be challenging to accurately determine how many occupants are in a vehicle. It would be much more difficult, and more expensive, to additionally be required to determine occupant age or licensing status. Another consideration is that carpools are sometimes driven by parents or caretakers who transport groups of children to activities. This does keep additional vehicles off the road.
http://www.rtc.wa.gov/Studies/Archive/hov/faq.htm#Q12 [wa.gov]

Why are people with children allowed to use the HOV lane?
HOV policies everywhere have allowed children to be counted as occupants of a carpool to meet the necessary occupancy requirement. While children may not be of driving age, there are two major reasons that we allow people with children to use the HOV lane: school and day care responsibilities and the idea of educating our children regarding ridesharing. Often, it is difficult to drop kids off at day care, drive to a park-and-ride, catch the bus, and get to work on time. Allowing parents to bring their kids along with them in the carpool, or on the bus, gives them an opportunity to use the HOV lane. This also keeps enforcing the lane very simple: two or more people per car.

Re:Great

[flewp (458359)]

It would seem obvious that "living humans" would also include children, regardless of what position they're in or whether they happen to be behind or in a seat that will be essentially invisible to such detectors.)

So does this mean I can't just take the dead hooker out of my trunk, throw her in a hot bathtub for awhile, and get away with using the HOV lanes?

Re:Great

[StikyPad (445176)]

Yes. It also means if you suspect your passenger has died en route to the hospital, you must merge back into the general lanes.

WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?

Funny.. I always thought the commercials were saying, "What Would Jew Do...?" Seemed a little bigoted to me!

Re:

[dman123 (115218)]

...be able to get somewhere faster or more conveniently because they have a child with them

Less time on the road? Yes.

Less time overall including the 20+ minutes of saying, "Let's go! Let's go! Don't hide your sister's shoes!"?????? Fat chance.

...And if you're going to be a stickler, what about the 30 year old guy without a license? A suspended license? My grandma that has a license but will not drive because she is is a danger to all others on the road? They must not count either. Welcome to the new police state where one has to prove the ability and need for passengers to otherwise drive, bu

Re:

[scatters (864681)]

The same should apply to taxis with a single passenger. They should not be allowed to use the party lane unless there are more than one passenger.

I car-pool to work every day, and it pisses me off to no end when single occupant vehicles use the HOV lane, but then, I'm an asshole so I like to report them. The driver doesn't get cited, but he does get a nasty-gram through the mail courtesy of WSP.

Re:

[Pollardito (781263)]

When did minors stop being people?

at the theater, at the amusement park, at the buffet, at the voting booth...they stop and start being considered the same as adults all day long

Re:

[techno-vampire (666512)]

That's not how the law is written, it just says that you must have two or more people in the car. Now, if you want to change it to "two or more licensed drivers," that's another issue, and opens up a nasty can of worms about enforcement.

Re:

[corsec67 (627446)]

Depends on the frequency of IR, glass is defenetly clear Near-IR, as I have tons of near-IR pictures I took through the windshield and side windows of cars.