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Washington State To Try RFID Drivers Licenses

Posted by kdawson on Sun Mar 25, 2007 05:24 PM
from the chipped-again dept.
Privacy
tverbeek tells us about a program the state of Washington has approved, to issue RFID-equipped drivers licenses to facilitate cross-border traffic. The idea is to load the drivers license with information proving citizenship, so that (with Department of Homeland Security approval) the bearer doesn't need to carry a passport — which otherwise will be required to re-enter the US from Canada beginning in 2009. The "enhanced" licenses will require applicants to submit to an in-person interview and to show proof of citizenship. A pilot program in Washington begins January 2008. Officials hope for DHS approval of the program before the Vancouver Olympics in 2010 causes a spike in cross-border traffic.
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  • Scary (Score:3, Funny)

    by voice_of_all_reason (926702) on Sunday March 25 2007, @05:29PM (#18481801)
    Friday's announcement comes on the heels of last week's federal checkpoint set up outside of Forks for those driving south on U.S. Route 101, who were required to prove their U.S. citizenship.

    Or what?

    • Re:Scary (Score:5, Informative)

      by voice_of_all_reason (926702) on Sunday March 25 2007, @05:34PM (#18481841)
      I was curious, so I looked it up myself: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/20 03628279_danny21.html?syndication=rss [nwsource.com]

      Starting at 8 a.m. last Thursday, federal Border Patrol agents blocked the highway outside town. For four hours, every car, truck and bus driving south on Highway 101 was pulled off the road and all passengers questioned. seven undocumented workers, who were shipped to a detention center in Tacoma.

      Carted off 160 miles to not even a jail, but a detention center.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by essence (812715)

        Carted off 160 miles to not even a jail, but a detention center.

        We have detention centers in Australia too. They are full of refugees who try to come to australia via boat without permission. I refuse to call these people 'illegals' because no human being is 'illegal', they are fucken human beings.

        Sad thing is, only a minority of people in Australia feel for the plight of these people. Most 'aussies' are racist, even if they don't admit it (or don't realize it).

        Whats even sadder is that some refug

        • Re:Scary (Score:5, Insightful)

          by TheSkyIsPurple (901118) on Sunday March 25 2007, @06:29PM (#18482185)
          >I refuse to call these people 'illegals' because no human being is 'illegal', they are fucken human beings.

          If they are from somewhere else, they are an alien.
          If they are enterring illegally, they are an illegal alien.
          And it's natural to shorten a long phrase like "illegal alien" to simply "illegal" when the context is clear.

          The person themself is not illegal, but their status in that location is.

          I don't see a problem with calling them illegals.

          Now, treating them as less than human is a whole other ball o' wax.

        • Re:Scary (Score:5, Insightful)

          by drsmithy (35869) <drsmithy@@@gmail...com> on Sunday March 25 2007, @07:35PM (#18482587)

          We have detention centers in Australia too. They are full of refugees who try to come to australia via boat without permission. I refuse to call these people 'illegals' because no human being is 'illegal', they are fucken human beings.

          There are laws defining how non-citizens are allowed to enter the country. These people have broken those laws. They're illegal immigrants.

          This does not mean they are "illegal people". They are free to leave - and go back to their point of origin - whenever they want.

          Sad thing is, only a minority of people in Australia feel for the plight of these people. Most 'aussies' are racist, even if they don't admit it (or don't realize it).

          Believing in immigration control is not racist, it's sensible.

          If you're so gung-ho about this, can you give me your address ? I want to come over to your house, eat your food and sleep in your bed for a few weeks. Or are you some racist hypocrite who locks his door at night ?

          Whats even sadder is that some refugees have been detained for years on end without being processed. Even sadder still, after years in detention, some get sent back from where they came. There was one case I think where someone was returned to Iran to be subsequently killed by the Iranian government.

          Now, here you actually have something approaching a valid point. The time taken to process these people *is* something that needs to be improved. Of course, if they didn't destroy all the documentation proving who they are, that would expedite the process far more than anything that can be done on Australia's end.

          Detetntion centers need to be abolished. There is no place for them in a free society.

          So how *should* we deal with people who enter the country illegally, that we know nothing about ?

            • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

              by drsmithy (35869)

              Well actually no. These people are refugees. Under international conventions which australia is signatory to, refugees have the right to seek asylum in Australia.

              No, they're illegal immigrants. If they were refugees and had followed the appropriate procedures for that status to be determined before they arrived, they'd be allowed in.

              People entering the country *might* be refugees. Then again, they might be criminals, smugglers, or simply individuals who had been denied entry in the past for any number

          • And your alternative is? Anarchy?
              • Exactly. And that's why anarchy is a total utopia.
              • An-archy - without rulers.

                So, no safety regulations. Nothing to stop bankers from making off with your life savings. No internet. No Thank You.

                I like knowing that my food has passed mandated quality control measures. I like knowing that the rules that govern how vehicles use the roads are enforced, that planes are not going to be dropping parts on my head, that buildings can withstand a moderate wind without falling over, that the wiring is adequate, and that the bridges I drive over can handle the
                  • So how do we enforce these things without becoming a ruler?

                    How about some kind of representative system where the people are polled about who they would like to be represented by? And some sort of "separation of powers" to make sure no sub-group of said system gains control over the others?
                    • i dont think so. Thats what we have now in most places.

                      Thank you, Captain Obvious. In fine form tonight, I see.

                      Now tell me, how does your system deal with large corporations that can just move around operations as it pleases them, and wield far more power than any single decentralized community?
                    • With lots and lots of wishful thinking.

    • Re:Scary (Score:4, Informative)

      by Frosty Piss (770223) on Sunday March 25 2007, @05:46PM (#18481939)
      The thing about this is that Forks isn't near any border crossing points, and is in fact in the middle of the Olympic Peninsula. More likely they where trolling for illegals migrant workers. But it really stinks like a "police state" sort of mentality.

      More here: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/20 03628279_danny21.html [nwsource.com]

      • Maybe the people in the government in Washington just got around to watching Dark Angel.

        Now, where's my Jam Pony ID...?
  • What would permanent residents and H1-B types have on their "enhanced" papers in lieu of proof of American citizenship?
    • If you're a permanent resident or a H1-B holder you're not am American citizen, so you'd still need to have your passport and green card or whatever a H1-B has.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by maxume (22995)
        H1-B holders have a visa(that is, that's the way their status is documented).

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by The Vulture (248871)
          As I've been told by many pedant border crossing officials (in Toronto), an H-1B is not a visa.

          My immigration attorney actually addressed this situation with me, because he knows that I like to travel, and I mentioned that I'd like to head to San Diego sometime soon. His advice is to carry your I-94 form (which should be stapled in your passport), and you should be fine.

          On Interstate 8, where it's close to the border, they apparently do checks every now and then, especially if they see a broken-down car.

          --

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by JimBobJoe (2758)
        What would permanent residents and H1-B types have on their "enhanced" papers in lieu of proof of American citizenship?

        Permanent US residents don't need an enhanced license because they already have a Green Card. The Green Card is accepted by Canada for entry and it's accepted by the US for return. (Permanent US residents are, in effect, treated by Canada as if they were US citizens.)

        Non-permanent residents are not treated the same way, and are evaluated by their citizenship and other credential issues--so
      • If you're a permanent resident or a H1-B holder you're not am American citizen

        Though this reply sorta contradicts another reply I made to the parent, US Permanent Residents are treated by Canada as if they were American citizens, so it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to have an enhanced license indicating they were a green card holder.

        My contention on that is they don't need it because they already have a green card--which is sufficient for crossing into Canada and back.
    • For going to Canada I think that matters what citizenship you are and what your countries deal with Canada is. I attend a large university in Michigan, and when making trips to Canada I have friends that can't go due to restrictions on their visas or a few can go if we give them about 6 weeks for the Canadian visa application process, and others just need a stamp in their passport or just have to show their passport.
    • Permanent Residents have a Permanent Resident Card (A.K.A. a Green Card or Alien Registration Receipt Card) which is already encoded with all sorts of information, so they don't need any other I.D.. Not even a passport.

      http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.ht ml [state.gov]

  • I'm moving there soon (Score:4, Insightful)

    by giminy (94188) on Sunday March 25 2007, @05:34PM (#18481843) Homepage Journal
    I'm moving to Washington State soon. I wonder what their reaction will be when I apply for one of these and during the interview state that I'm a security researcher interested in breaking it. :).

    Reid

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Then one of two things will happen:

      Either your interrogator will be "you better love the USA or else" type of asshole, in which case youll be labeled a traitor.

      Or, your interrogator will be a underpaid, overworked person who could care less. Ill vote for this one.

      • Or, your interrogator will be a underpaid, overworked person who could care less.

        So what does that mean? That the care enough to care less if they wanted? Or that they don't care at all? I don't understand...

    • I think you better look into it a little more before doing it. Most states have strong laws about creating false IDs or screwing with security measure on it. You could probably get a permit and have your research watched but if you release something to the public that could allow someone to bypass the security, your could be in as much trouble as whoever did it.

      Anyways, Good luck with it. Just don't end up being the next guy that someone is crying about on slashdot because they don't understand your a white
  • Because we know that Canadians and other undesirables who want to visit the USA illegally will find these so hard to fake.
    • Actually, they won't even bother faking it. They'll just cross the border at one of the many border points that have no officer there. Or they'll cross in the middle of the woods, or by crossing a lake/river, or through an indian reservation... I still haven't figured out why they're pushing these stupid measures. It's bad for the US even economically since Americans can still easily enter Canada, but Canadians have a harder time spending their money in the US. Then again, I'm Canadian, so what do I care...

  • why RFID? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Allison Geode (598914) on Sunday March 25 2007, @05:40PM (#18481881)
    why can't they just keep a database and have barcodes? wouldn't that be, essentially, the same as this, only less prone to RFID's insecure nature?
  • Counterfeit drivers licenses for 'Olympics visitors' to use to enter the US in
    3....
    2....
    1....

    • Counterfeit drivers licenses for 'Olympics visitors' to use to enter the US in

      You are aware that Vancouver is in British Columbia, Canada, right?
      • It looks as if you have misinterpreted the OP's post. I do believe he meant to say that visitors to the Vancouver Olympics may be able to purchase phony Washington State licenses in B.C., for the purposes of illegally entering the US.

        I think it's more likely that there will be problem with illegals entering Canada from the US than rather than the other way around. Though from what i understand about the new enforcement capabilities of border guards on sides, illegal crossings are far less likely to happen
        • I actually realized that after I posted my comment, but since /. doesn't let you delete or edit them once you make them, it was too late then.

          Note to self: Don't make /. posts right after waking up from a nap.
  • I've never understood the problem with just getting a passport to cross the border.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by value_added (719364)
      I've never understood the problem with just getting a passport to cross the border.

      I think this program is targetted more specifically at cross-border car travellers. That said, here's a few reasons:

      1. Most Americans will never travel outside the state they live in let alone outside the country, and see little use in obtaining one, notwithstanding the general native distrust of things associated with federal government.
      2. The passport application requires submission of original documentation. Most America
      • The only figure I've seen for the 'enhanced' license is a $40 fee - I'm assuming you'd get that, then pay the same amount to renew it every five years, like the current regular license. So if the prices don't change the 'enhanced' would be $82 cheaper than the passport and regular license when buying them, and then $4.40 a year cheaper in renewals.

  • Proof of citizenship? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Kaenneth (82978) on Sunday March 25 2007, @06:16PM (#18482121) Homepage Journal
    This will help security how?

    The Unibomber and Oklahoma City bombers were US Citizens, the 9/11 attackers had real, not forged documents, the vast majority of illegal immigrants are probably nice folks... since when does lack of proper ID portend terror?

    If someone is planning a complex plot to attack the US, they probably won't let it fail because a key member has a badly forged ID card.
    • The security organisations get their power (and money for toys) through fear. They need to keep the fear alive and they can do that by coming up with new security measures at airports/borders/whatever. These all help to build the perception that there is a dangerous world full of hippies/commies/rag-heads/$MONSTER_OF_THE DECADE.

      Also, being politically driven, these organisations must pander to perceptions rather than reality. They respond to, and help fan, the perceived external threat rather than deal to t

    • This will help security how?

      It's not intended to help security - it's intended to make the lives of thousands of WA state residents that cross the border daily much, much easier. (Especially when the traffic levels spike in 2010 - the residents won't be impeded by the touristas.) Heck, it'll make my life easier. I used to go to Van or the Lower Mainland 2-3 times a year, but had to give it up because of the hassle. I'll be applying for one as soon as I can.

  • What's going on with my state? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by FirstTimeCaller (521493) on Sunday March 25 2007, @06:27PM (#18482171)
    First they want to tax internet purchases, now they want to put RFID tags on my license. I think our legislators are hopped up on too much StarBucks... I liked it better when they didn't do anything.

  • Already approved? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Rentiak (835443) on Sunday March 25 2007, @08:15PM (#18482823) Homepage
    According to this CNN article, the initiative appears to already have been approved by DHS.

    "The pilot project, signed into law by Gov. Chris Gregoire and formally approved by (DHS Secretary) Chertoff on Friday"

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/TRAVEL/03/24/border.crossi ng.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories [cnn.com]

  • worthless (Score:3, Interesting)

    by deblau (68023) <slashdot.25.flickboy@spamgourmet.com> on Sunday March 25 2007, @08:16PM (#18482835) Journal

    The idea is to load the drivers license with information proving citizenship
    Driver's licenses are not authentication, they are evidence of a license to drive on State roads. They were not designed to satisfy strong authentication [wikipedia.org] protocols. They can only properly be used* once a person has been authenticated in other ways**. To see how massively ineffective they are at authentication, see here [msn.com].

    For the love of all that is right in the world, stop trying to use them for more than they were designed.

    * By used, I mean to offer evidence to the person 'using' it that the possessor has permission to drive on the roads. It's only evidence, it's not conclusive. Using it for other things (e.g. checking age at a bar) is foolish.

    ** For instance, checking the car's registration against the DMV database to see if the driver's name, address, tags, and VIN line up.

  • show proof of citizenship

    Well, and I thought it's the state's job to know about a person whether (s)he's a citizen or not. If I show a whatever ID they issued I expect them to know my status and be that ID enough proof of my citizenship. Enormous amounts of tax payers' money is spent of countless forms of identification methods and cards issues, on systems storing these information, so use the damn thing.
     

    • (There are MANY points where entry into the united states is completely unhindered by any enforcement whatsoever - in fact one place has an HONOR system where you are supposed to stop at an unmanned shack and call the authorities and give them your information before continuing... and sometimes they don't even answer the phone!).

      You do exactly as your suggest. If your one of these illegals (terrorist/whatever) coming into the states, you will feel reasonable comfortable in large crowded passages were you

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Seumas (6865)

        People do that so in a worst case scenario, they can identify their child's remains.

        That isn't the reason the parents do it. These services are done in shopping malls and grade schools and they are promoted as ways to keep your child safe. Not identify your child after they've been raped, murdered and then chopped up. People just don't put any though into it and they honestly believe that by giving the government a record of their child's biometric information they will somehow receive increased safety out of it.

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