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British Cops Hack Into Government Computers
Posted by
Zonk
on Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:59 AM
from the accountability-from-the-bobbies dept.
from the accountability-from-the-bobbies dept.
CmdrGravy writes "The British Police have hacked into Government computers as part of the on-going 'cash for peerages' investigation. They've uncovered evidence which has, so far, led to one arrest and charge of perverting the course of justice for a leading Labour party figure. This charge carries a potential life sentence. The British police have the power to hack into computer systems as part of an investigation. On previous occasions they have said they did not believe the government was providing them with the information they had been asking for and had warned that they would seek other methods to gather evidence. The police won't say what tools they have used. From the article: 'The investigators did not have to notify No 10 if they were "hacking" into its system. One legal expert said: "In some cases, a senior officer can give permission. In other cases, you might need the authorization of an independent commissioner, who is usually a retired judge appointed by the Home Office."'"
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That's Hot (Score:5, Funny)
Curiosity (Score:3, Interesting)
Is the approval that the british cops gained:
"In some cases, a senior officer can give permission. In other cases, you might need the authorisation of an independent commissioner, who is usually a retired judge appointed by the Home Office."
The same basic idea? Or is this a change, or what not. Basicly can some one more familiar with the british legal system explain this?
thanks.
Re: (Score:2)
Systems belonging to private individuals or companies would still be safe unless a court order were issued (atleast I would really hope so!!)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Really the lesson here is that the British can fool an American by replacing a word with its definition.
Re:Curiosity (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Just one of my fav'rite net things..
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I wonder who these "computer experts" are? (Score:5, Interesting)
But now that these "computer experts" have done this once with police blessing, had a nice look at the systems I wouldn't wonder if they could do it again without the blessing or knowledge of the police.
From the article it doesn't look like the sys-admins at Downing Street have been all that involved in this, I sure hope they have now been notified of how this was done and whatever way was used to get into the systems have been closed.
One could suspect that with the police having known these/this "computer expert(s)" it might be an indication that it wasn't a white hat they got hold of, but really that is just speculation, it might also have been a white hat person.
Anyhow I know nothing but what it says in TFA, which really isn't a lot, but for the sake of british security I sure hope this has been done in a sensible way.
Re:I wonder who these "computer experts" are? (Score:4, Informative)
With the appropriate authority, the police can do things that your everyday hacker on the street might find very difficult, e.g. gain physical entry to Downing Street, so there's no reason that there would be a gaping hole waiting for black-hats to enter through.
There are several organisations in the UK that regularly do IT security work for the ministry of defence, the police and the security services and have staff who are cleared to high security levels. I worked for Detica [detica.com] about 10 years ago and I think that they would have had the capability to assist in this kind of thing then, don't know if they still do. Qinetiq [qinetiq.com] might be another firm that would have people with relevant expertise.
Parent
Re:I wonder who these "computer experts" are? (Score:5, Interesting)
I am sure they have some very good staff being that they invented the idea of codebreaking using computers over 60 years ago.
Also worth noting that after RSA came out and published their work on public key cryptography GCHQ admitted they had known how to do it but kept it secret. This page has some decent info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptographer [wikipedia.org]
Anyone pointing out that the refences to GCHQ are all very old should also know that they would never dream of telling anyone else if they had cracked every encyrption method known. Why create more work for yourself when your primary role is listening in to other peoples communications?
Parent
Cash for peerages? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cash for peerages? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Cash for peerages? (Score:5, Informative)
I know it sounds laughable on the face of things, but the real problem is that the Labour Party got the money, which they then used to (partially) fund their election campaign, and once they won the election, they started handing out these peerages to the people that gave them money.
It's a case of a political party abusing their authority for the benefit of the party and not the government or the people.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
-Eric
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The 1999 Human Rights Act incorporates the ECHR into UK law, so there is no need for any UK citizen to go to Strabourg, the UK courts will hear your complaint.
What's wrong with the UK? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, there is the matter of physical access, of course. Lots of police working in Downing Street and other government and party premises on - ostensibly - security/protection duties etc. I'd like to see your "teenage neighbor" stroll in there and connect up a PC...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What's wrong with the UK? (Score:5, Funny)
Worringly, I would say it's quite likely there's a compiled VB4 package somewhere that runs under Win95 on an old Compaq 486 (DX, yay!) that has a tickbox marked 'Have you asked the Americans if it's OK?' that then enables a big red button that does the deed. Worse still, it's 30 lines of code, a 3rd party OCX (From the 'Custom Nuclear Controls Corporation') and cost £3.5bn to develop by a consortium of consultancies. Oh, and they lost the source code and the PC isn't backed up.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You seem to underestimate British Police. You probabally shouldn't.
"They are probably using pretty basic hacking methods to hack into government computers. "
Who was it cracked Enigma without a computer again? And they probabally have the best tools available.
Re:What's wrong with the UK? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:What's wrong with the UK? (Score:5, Informative)
It was the Poles who cracked the first two rotors of Enigma without computers.
It was the British Navy who captured the rest of the rotors and the code-books.
It was Turing and Flower who built the first electronic programmable computer that enabled a theoretical crack to be actually used in real-time to read German traffic and produce ULTRA.
Parent
Re:What's wrong with the UK? (Score:4, Insightful)
The Poles originally cracked three rotor Enigma.
The Germans made it more secure (by adding two new rotors so the daily key used three rotors from five).
The Poles realised they didn't have the resources to crack Enigma anymore and handed everything over to the British.
The British (esp. Alan Turing) enhanced the cracking methods including building an electro-mechanical device called a "bombe" to help with the key cracking (NB, the Polish also had such a device, but the British version was much improved).
The German Navy used a four rotor enigma and much stricter key generation protocols such that for much of the war it could only be cracked by capturing daily keys from u-boats etc.
Colossus, the first electronic programmable computer, was built to crack a completely different cipher called Lorenz. Alan Turing had very little to do with that. NB, I'm fairly sure Colossus was not Turing complete. The engineer who designed Colossus was Tommy Flowers.
Parent
Re:What's wrong with the UK? (Score:5, Funny)
I think I'm safe in saying it wasn't the Metropolitan or City Police.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What's wrong with the UK? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Interesting... (Score:2, Interesting)
I do find it quite hypocritical that the British Government have such power a
In fact (Score:3, Informative)
get some of your own (Score:2, Insightful)
Must end have run out of cliches.
Here's some more (Score:2)
Labour party? (Score:2)
Why am I not surprised? (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, I shouldn't be shocked. They've lied about funding, the health service, taxes and just about everything else... they'd be the first to try and protect their own livelihoods when it came to the crunch.
Is it just me, or is my country going to the dogs? Or is it just that there is no such thing as an honest politician?
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Re:Why am I not surprised? (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe it's your Chicken Little attitude, and your tarring of all politicians with the same brush. No-one was charged or convicted with anything here, yet you've already jumped on a bandwagon and declared them guilty. Even if they are guilty that doesn't mean there aren't many more local politicians and MPs, etc who are really trying to make life better for their constituants.
In a democratic society the politicans are the employees of the people. They are a reflection of the people's own strengths and weaknesses. If an employee in your company is suspected of stealing you don't declare all of your employees to be thieves, or would you? Politics is no different even if you're of the opinion that you're helpless and can do nothing.
The fact that the police have no problem going to these measures to investigate possible criminal actions within the government is a sign that this country is far from "going to the dogs", and is exactly how a democratic country should be run, where the politicians live in fear of the people's disapproval, and not the other way around. I'm not afraid of anyone in Parliament - are you? We put them there, we can get rid of them. If they break the law, we'll deal with them. That's democracy.
Parent
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The police won't say (Score:5, Funny)
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Britney Spears.
Yup, someone holding my eyelids open so that I had to look at another picture of Britney's cellulite? Or that "upskirt" shot of her rather ravaged beaver? It would have me confessing to anything.
What is meant by "hacking"? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Fascinating (Score:2)
The hack was actually easy because (Score:5, Funny)
Perhaps now they will understand (Score:4, Insightful)
This is getting rather serious (Score:5, Funny)
In the present case what is terrifying Government Ministers and senior figures in New Labour is that they may be charged with anti competitive behaviour and market manipulation - distorting the free market in peerages and other honours, and colluding with other honours suppliers. If the police start to suspect something like this has gone on, the Office of Fair Trading and the European Commission could get involved, and you know that when the Competition Directorate moves, terror strikes.
It is truly tragic. Britain was always famous around the world as the country that operated the most open and transparent market for honours of all sorts. Its a great pity it has come to this.
Obvious! (Score:3, Funny)
Update: (Score:3, Funny)
PC James Smith (now Lord Smith of Whitekirk) and Det Sgt Margaret Jackson (now Dame Jackson of Drumadoon) have said that nothing of interest was found. The supervising officer Det Insp Michael Parks (Now Lord Parks of Worth Matravers) stated that whilst nothing untoward had been identified, the procedures surrounding the "hacking" and its legality would be revised. "This revision is to be taken as the intrusion into downing street computers has caused undue distress and concern to members of the British government, and is therefore probably in contravention of the European Unions Human Rights Legislation" said a downing street media official Martin Smith-Spinalot. Lord Parks also noted that Mr John Hackeby, the home office official that had authorised the intrusion had been fired from the home office for theft of office supples and is in the process of being extradited to the United States due to his involvement in online gambling, terrorist funding and drugs trafficing, for which the US State department has said it probably has some sort of evidence, or could find some by strengthening or introduction legislation to allow it to do "anything it wants to do to fight bad things".
(just in case anybody missed it, the above is fictitious and intended as light humour)
Re:lol (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:lol (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, the British system of government is fabulous.
Especially if you want to buy a peerage.
Parent
Re:That's no diff from American separation of powe (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not proposing that the British system is the paragon of integrity relative to the American system, but that's probably the best example you can give of the police correcting corrupt government behaviour, and it didn't work. Bush sends thousands of Americans to their deaths overseas, but the entire American political system sits on their hands.
But lie about a blowjob, and...
Parent
Re:lol (Score:4, Insightful)
Complaints are handled by the Independent Police Complaints Commission which is fully independent with its own investigators. Seats on the commission are not open to former police officers.
There are lots of things wrong with the way things are run in Britain, but policing isn't one of them.
An old joke makes that observation. In European heaven, the chefs are French, the engineers are German, the Italians are the lovers, the British are the police and it's all run by the Swiss. In European hell, the French are the engineers, the Germans are the police, the British are the chefs, the Swiss are the lovers, and it's all run by the Italians.
Parent