Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments
Search

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Microsoft Considers Pulling Out of China

Posted by samzenpus on Thu Nov 02, 2006 07:54 AM
from the no-windows-for-you dept.
Microsoft Censorship
icefaerie writes to let us know that a senior executive for Microsoft has said the firm could pull out of non-democratic countries such as China. From the article: "Fred Tipson, senior policy counsel for the computer giant, said concerns over the repressive regime might force it to reconsider its business in China. 'Things are getting bad... and perhaps we have to look again at our presence there,' he told a conference in Athens."
+ -
story
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.

Microsoft Considers Pulling Out of China 50 Comments More /

 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.

  • correction (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 02 2006, @07:58AM (#16687083)
    s/non-democratic countries/countries where piracy is rampant/

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by 1u3hr (530656)
      One PR flack backed into a corner by human rights activists at a conference said they would "consider" pulling out. When he gets back to Redmond he'll be in deep shit.

      • Re:correction (Score:5, Funny)

        by ozmanjusri (601766) <aussie_bob@hotmail. c o m> on Thursday November 02 2006, @09:24AM (#16688017) Journal
        When he gets back to Redmond he'll be in deep shit.

        Precisely.

        Microsoft's pulling out of the biggest potential market in the world because of piracy, like I'd be pulling out of Natalie Portman because she farts in bed.

        • Re:correction (Score:4, Funny)

          by Entropy (6967) on Thursday November 02 2006, @11:57AM (#16690309)
          Microsoft's pulling out of the biggest potential market in the world because of piracy, like I'd be pulling out of Natalie Portman because she farts in bed.


          The difference is, you haven't fucked Natalie Portman, whereas Microsoft has fucked China.

    • The real reason (Score:4, Interesting)

      by doodlebumm (915920) on Thursday November 02 2006, @09:58AM (#16688497)

      If they say they will pull out, it is more that they are going to put pressure on the Chinese (and other governments) to crack down on piracy. If the governments think that they will be unable to easily get what they want from Microsoft, maybe they will crack down on the pirates.

      Personally I hope it backfires and China ends up with 100,000,000 computers running Linux. I wonder how that would affect the perceived "market share" held by Microsoft. And think of all the applications that would be made available on Linux. Sweet!

      • And think of all the applications that would be made available on Linux. Sweet!
        Yeah, but the documentation would SUCK!
      • I don't think you want Linux to be associated with China as your "marketing plan" to get people to switch.

        Perception is not always the same as reality. So to the layman, if Linux = China - he'll stay away because he doesn't want a "Chinese" version of Windows.

        Sad, but this is the level of understanding you are dealing with.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Simon (815)
      s/non-democratic countries/countries where piracy is rampant/

      That's a bit harsh don't you think? After all China has taken great strides to help reduce the use of illegal software. The Chinese government is even sponsoring development of a Chinese linux distribution, Red Flag Linux [wikipedia.org]. I'm surprised that Microsoft isn't applauding and encouraging these anti-piracy efforts. Think of all of the millions of dollars Microsoft will no longer lose each year to the pirates. ;-)

      --
      Simon

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by PsychicX (866028)
      This article is about MSN and blogs and the like, not their software business. They're considering turning off all of the MSN services to China, rather than succumbing and doing filtering as the government pleases (looking at you Google), and rather than turning over bloggers to the government (looking at you Yahoo).

      They know perfectly well they don't any significant software revenue in China, and they're at least open about it inside the company.

  • Ethics (Score:3, Funny)

    by Kell Bengal (711123) on Thursday November 02 2006, @07:59AM (#16687091)
    When Microsoft leads the way in business ethics ahead of a company with a motto of "Don't be evil", I know it's time ot look for aerial pork.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by z0idberg (888892)
      Talk is cheap.

      A one-liner from a senior policy counsel isn't exactly a firm commitment.
  • M$ is a commercial entity. If they decide to pull out of a market there must be an other reason then the politics stated above.

    My guess: M$ cannot sue chinese citizens if they use an illegal copy.
    • Or the good image it generates will help their sales elsewhere. There's always more than just the direct way to make money.
      • China has a billion Chinese getting ready to buy a computer. Would you turn away a billion customers to gain a few million more? even if half are running illegal copies, that's still many times more than you can find elsewhere.

  • Pulling out? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Lurker2288 (995635) on Thursday November 02 2006, @08:00AM (#16687113)
    Microsoft, when will you learn? Pulling out is NOT a reliable precaution. It's almost as bad as counting business cycles.
      • Everyone knows that pulling out is unsafe. That's why you're supposed to use condoms instead.

        There were several other jokes in this discussion that one or two people may not get. Can you explain those as well? Thanks!
         
  • For a company with business practicess like MSFT this has got to be some kind of PR stunt
    • Last time I checked, Microsoft engaged in monopolistic behavior. China is engaged in wholesale, widespread human rights abuses that make Gitmo look downright tame. Equating the two as basically the same level of evil is not only wrong, but it's insulting.
      • Learn to read, I never said they were the same level of reading.

        What I said was that I find it surprising for a company like microsoft ditching one of the biggest growing world markets.
      • Thank you. Why is it that on Slashdot that Microsoft and the US are always considered the most evil anybody can ever be?

        -dave
  • Seriously though (and no, I don't mean to flame...) this is a good step. If more leading companies do this then maybe some sort of pressure can be applied. Unfortunately, if this doesn't apply to other large firms (i.e. Google) then this may be a huge market loss for Microsoft.

    If Microsoft moves by itself, it opens up a huge consumer market to alternatives like Linux on the desktop and solidifies Google as a market leader in the webspace. People may argue that this is good (more Linux adoption etc) but is t

  • Won't happen (Score:5, Funny)

    by nnnneedles (216864) on Thursday November 02 2006, @08:03AM (#16687139)
    Everyone who thinks this won't happen, mod me up.

    Thank you.

    • OOps, sorry, I thought you said "raise your hand".
    • That, sir, may just qualify as the most unabashedly shameless example of karma whoring I have ever been party to witness here or any other place that uses similar moderation processes. Were there a plaque or trophy for such an accomplishment you would certainly receive my vote for recieving it. Well done!

  • leverage (Score:5, Insightful)

    by orbitalia (470425) on Thursday November 02 2006, @08:05AM (#16687157) Homepage
    They are just looking for some leverage to influence China to update its anti piracy laws.
  • Really, I don't know why any US companies can do business with China. China does terrible, horrible things to their people. We're talking on par with Cuba, Iraq, and many rogue African and S. American countries. Yet for some reason we seem to turn a blind eye to it. I've never understood it. I'm sure it's all political because the US couldn't survive as a country without China. It's easy to say no to cuba, it's much more difficult to say no to a country which supplies over 90% of our furniture and large chu
    • Really, I don't know why any US companies can do business with China.

      Initially, greed. For those competing against them, necessity.

      China does terrible, horrible things to their people. We're talking on par with Cuba, Iraq, and many rogue African and S. American countries. Yet for some reason we seem to turn a blind eye to it. I've never understood it.

      Because there is no immediately visible consequence to saving 50% on items made in China versus elsewhere apart from the immediate savings to that person. The
      • It could be stopped, and pressure applied, if people voted for representatives to create laws to apply some sort of penalty for buying from such regimes. No such laws have been created. Says a lot about the representatives and the people voting for them, doesn't it?

        You don't even need to be so extreme as to be a single issue voter. A simple consumer boycott would do wonders. True, you can't possibly hit EVERY company, but you could hit enough to make a difference. The idea isn't so much knock out every s
    • So you're very careful to make sure the products you buy don't come from China, "Cuba, Iraq, and many rogue African and S. American countries"? No? You still buy that stuff?

      I think you have your answer "why any US companies can do business with China".

      Even if someone you ARE this amazing saint... Very few other people are willing to follow your lead. If they were, the whole 'Walmart if killing America' movement would catch on better.
    • Economics:
      1) Cheap Labor
      2) Large Market
      It's as simple as that.
      -dave
    • "Really, I don't know why any US companies can do business with China."

      Few US companies do business with "China".

      US companies -- groups of individuals -- engage in beneficial trade with other individuals in China. How evil the Chinese and US governments may be has no bearing on the right of two individuals to carry out their own private business.

      If you're saying it's ridiculous for the US government to use violence against its own citizens to keep them from doing business with Cuban people, and not use that

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Pharmboy (216950)
      I'm sure it's all political because the US couldn't survive as a country without China.

      I would certainly argue that point. If you are referring to "cheap labor", then we would probably be BETTER OFF without China, and instead put resources into Mexico, at least in the mid to long term. At least if we moved jobs to Mexico, it may slow down illegal immigration as there would be more jobs. Transportation of goods would also be cheaper, and Mexico has a tremendous amount of natural resources. Moving labor t

    • Re:All democratic companies should pull out (Score:5, Funny)

      by Aceticon (140883) on Thursday November 02 2006, @09:35AM (#16688199)
      I vote that all US companies move out of any countries that hold prisioners for an indefinite period without a right to a fair trial, practice torture and/or bug their citizens phones without court orders .... oh wait...
  • For stories like this, perhaps the Gates pic should not have the borg hardware. De-assimilation, you know.
      • "Maybe a mashup of Seven-of-Nine in her slinky Borg catsuit with Bill's head on top...?"

        Why not just leave her regular head in place? And come to think of it, nix the catsuit. Now your talking.

  • PR Stunt (Score:4, Interesting)

    by CDPatten (907182) on Thursday November 02 2006, @08:08AM (#16687193) Homepage
    I'm usually on the other side defending MS, but this is clearly just a PR stunt. No company, including the slashdotter's holy Google & Apple, would pass up the chance to get at $1billion+ people. The chinese economy is just begining to ramp up, and they LOVE technology and the internet.

    I suspect they are just trying to get some good press...
  • If Microsoft does this, it will be for some other reason. I have a really hard time believing MS execs could get a rationale like "We're pulling out of this massive massive massive but largely untapped market because our bleeding hearts tell us to" past the shareholders.

    My money's on protecting their IP - not just piracy, as others have mentioned, but concerns about stuff like components of it being reverse engineered and incorporated into competing products.

  • The reasons (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Dystopian Rebel (714995) * on Thursday November 02 2006, @08:10AM (#16687221) Journal
    "Your Honor, my client Microsoft seeks to cancel these contracts because we object to China's
    - lying
    - unfair practices
    - unprincipled use of its economic potential
    - painfully slow turnaround time for patching bugs

    Sorry, Your Honour... We can strike that last one from the record."
  • So I wonder what MS are trying to put pressure on China to do?

    They're a business, pulling out of China is bad business. They're bluffing. I wonder what they're trying to win. *yawn*

  • If MS pulls out of China, the PRC will simply declare (or act as though) copyright and trademark don't apply to companies that pull out. So each time MS releases a patch or new OS or new version of Office, someone will crack it right away for Chinese consumption.

    I don't really see how MS has much leverage here. MS could maybe have the U.S. govt. go to bat for them, but we're in such debt and military over-extension right now, and have so few friends around the world, that we're not in a particularly stron
  • They'll just move on to Linux... and not have to spend billions of dollars on the "Microsoft Tax".

    Besides, the Chinese government won't have to worry about malicious code coming from an American company (not that they did anyways since I doubt there's anything to fear).
  • This could mean so many things really.

    First of all there is the crazy piracy which costs them huge dollars and causes trouble since the pirated windows spread virii like crazy. Also there so much trouble enforcing contracts. When I was running my IT business people would constantly try to renegotiate the price AFTER the project was completed. A not small amount of time people would just not be able to pay. Forgot about taking them to court.

    Then legally you can't really know if you are breaking the law or not half the time. Usually if you are breaking the law come down to who you know. So it's hard for them to make project plans and then suddenly the gov't tells them they can't do something (after they spent millions).

    I know a guy working on a TV movie in China. They wrote this super tame script and had it checked by the gov't censor board. Then after spending several million dollars and months of effort the gov't decided they couldn't sell the movie, because it showed foreigners beating out local Chinese people. So this makes it hard to commit the big bucks in China, you get nervous that the gov't will suddenly make some arbitrary change and put you out of business.

    Yeah, it's sort of like this here in the US (and lately our gov't been closing the gap) but it's much much worse in China. Or maybe the foriegners all get the 'special' treatment, who knows? At least that is my experience, and I lived in China (all over) for a couple of years, and I have western friends there living in china as long as 12 years.

    So there might not be totally humanitarian reasons for this, although there certainly could be really bad stuff here that even MS doesn't want to be associated with.

  • could pull out of non-democratic countries (Score:3, Funny)

    by smchris (464899) on Thursday November 02 2006, @09:54AM (#16688437)
    Oh, great. More jobs going overseas.

    [This time next week we can only hope to see how wrong that statement is.]

    • If MSFT pulls out of China, Windows piracy may become (even more) rampant.

      The best outcome for linux will be obtained if Microsoft continues to be evil, stays in China, and aggressively enforces the Windows license conditions and tracks down and prosecutes Windows pirates.

    • Re:Victory! (Score:4, Funny)

      by Rik Sweeney (471717) on Thursday November 02 2006, @08:38AM (#16687515) Homepage
      China will never take over the world.

      It's only really used by the upper class or people who'd like to think they're upper class. Most people just use the regular material that plates and cups are made out of (whatever that it). Some even use paper to avoid having to wash up at the end of their meal.
    • It would be very naïve to expect that. Money has no ideology; and businessmen usually have one ideology - making a profit is good. There is always someone who is willing to do business with repressive regimes.

      This is from the article - Fellow panellist, Anriette Esterhuysen, executive director of professional body APC, said: "I don't think we should make corporations responsible for securing our freedoms."

      This article reminded me of this quote - "The Capitalists will sell us the rope with whic

    • What about other countries who support terrorism, for instance.


      Where did the IRA get a lot of their funding from?

    • Re:Shareholders (Score:5, Funny)

      by Digital Vomit (891734) on Thursday November 02 2006, @08:28AM (#16687431) Homepage Journal
      And why stop there? What about other countries who support terrorism, for instance. Are they going to relocate to Canada?

      NOOO--, I mean, I don't think that's a good idea. Don't you remember how Canada was an entry point for the 9/11 terrorists? We-- I mean, those Canucks can't be trusted. Microsoft should not move here!

      I mean, "there"!

      • "I am curious when was Posse Comitatus suspended recently?"

        Shame on you for missing the last Bildeburger meeting. Didn't you read the announcement in your "Skull and Bones Society Alumni" newsletter?

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2009 Geeknet, Inc.