Next Generation of iPods to have Wi-Fi? 224
Zephyr14z writes "A TMCnet article states that Apple has filed a patent for iPods that can purchase music wirelessly over the internet. This was an expected feature in the Zune, though it turns out not to be true. 'While this could be an effort to fight the software giant and its product directly, it should be noted that Zune's built-in Wi-Fi will be limited to the file sharing between devices with no direct Internet purchases from the handheld,' says Campbell."
Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Zune? (Score:5, Insightful)
Odd, first of all, that this article appears in YRO (because it involves a patent?); second, and odder still, is Susan Campbell's commentary:
O RLY? As far as I can tell, Susan seems to be a ressentissante Microsoft shill:
Suffice to say, even the slickest market campaign can't account alone for iPod's success; just look at the PS3 or Zune: you can't pull the wool over everyone's eyes all the time.
That said, if Apple does introduce Wi-Fi (or an iPod cell-phone, for that matter), it will be on its own time; and not because it's scared of Zune.
Re:Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Zune? (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple did borrow a winning strategy from Microsoft in keeping its technology proprietary. [Emphasis mine]
Suffice to say, even the slickest market campaign can't account alone for iPod's success; just look at the PS3 or Zune: you can't pull the wool over everyone's eyes all the time.
Perhaps more importantly, if apple has the patent, microsoft doesn't
It might be more of a blocking exercise than anything else - apple has a perfectly good model for sales, and might just be doing this to prevent other models from happening.
Probably being paranoid here
Michael
Re:Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Zune? (Score:5, Insightful)
Be afraid of the Zune (Score:2)
http://thingsguyslike.blogspot.com/2006/10/microso ft-home-entertainment.html [blogspot.com]
$5bn in losses so far, and still no profits at the Home Entertainment division of Microsoft. If they wanted, they could give Zunes away for 10 years. It's hard to compete against that kind of financial muscle.
Re:Be afraid of the Zune (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a common argument about Microsoft. However, it is only partly true. Microsoft has shareholders. Microsoft cannot just throw money away, it has to be something that will potentially bring big profits in the future.
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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstec
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How many people would buy a Zune over an iPod if it included 50 free songs? Or maybe 5 free songs a month for 3 years.
Another idea would be an "iPod exchange" program. Turn in any working iPod and get a free Zune w/ more storage. (turn in a 60gb iPod, get an 80gb Zune, etc). Similarly, buy a zune and get free credits for any music purchased thru iTMS so you can download the songs from the MSFT store for free.
Obviously the iPod ex
There's lots more better out there (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:There's lots more better out there (Score:4, Insightful)
Not in my experience (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:There's lots more better out there (Score:4, Insightful)
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Maybe the iPod sounds good enough. I know a couple of people who were in no hurry to switch from audio cassettes to compact discs because a metal tape with Dolby B noise reduction was good enough for them. I have a cousin who still uses her VCR to record television right now because it's adequate. And
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So yeah, quality is importan
Re:Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Zune? (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't count your chickens before they're hatched. Slashdot readers may have a good idea of the real issues behind the PS3 and Sony's tactics, especially, but Slashdot readers are not a significant proportion of Joe Public. To the average consumer, "Sony" still conjures up images of reasonably reliable shiny metal consumer electronics, not RIAA lawsuits, rootkit CDs, or the Blu-ray DRM debacle. Sorry to tell you, but it's the advertising and PR campaigns alone that will make or break the PS3; it's how well they can sell that their product is really worth $600. Same applied to the Zune. What Slashdot readers consider "the real issues" will factor into it little if at all.
Re:Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Zune? (Score:4, Insightful)
I would have to say that Apple of all companies, did market the iPod better than their competitors. They made an MP3 player (which at the time considered a geek's gadget) cool. But they also made the technology easy to use for the average consumer. Considering the alternatives when the iPod came out. Flash MP3 players that could store 32MB or 64MB. That capacity is well under two CDs, and portable CD players were cheap. Also it was a pain to get music onto them. Or something like the Nomad which had more capacity (6GB) but couldn't be used as a hard drive and was the size of a portable CD player.
Enter the iPod. It can be used a portable hard drive. It fit in your pocket. It could store enough songs to last for days. It was easy to use. It was easy to sync (and it got easier later). Is it a surprise it took over the market. And Apple unlike some of their competitors kept innovating? I had a Rio 32MB player. The only thing that the next model added was more capacity.
The factor behind Apple's DRM is not Apple. It is the music companies. I don't think Apple cares if you use your iPod to share all your music with everyone. But the RIAA might. As for restrictions, these are not unique to Apple. PlaysForSure limits you as well. And MS new Zune DRM is identical to Apple's strategy.
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Huh? Do you really think that, in 18 months, we will not be talking about the PS3? The Zune is practically stillborn but the PS3 has a nearly guaranteed gigantic launch. Besides, you referenced 'slick marketing campaigns', of which I've seen just billboards for the PS3 and fuck-all for Zune. I agree that the iPod is not just about marketing but you picked some strange illustrations.
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This is kind of a crazy idea, but do you think, just maybe, other people in the world have, say, different tastes, needs or wants than you do? Nah, too out there hey? They just think they do. Retards.
Oh yeah, most people haven't seen anything but an iPod either. Eve
please... (Score:2)
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I haven't been able to find the patent filing yet, so I don't know the scope. However, if that's one of their goals with this patent, Verizon Wireless already has prior art with their VCast Music service.
need cable anyway? (Score:5, Interesting)
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I see lots of issues with this plan.
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You need a cable to recharge, but I'd view it like Ethernet or wireless. Of course copper is faster, but there are times where it is just not convenient. My blackberry, for instance, uses a USB cable to recharge and do data. I can feed it power with my wife's cell phone charger too which is nothing more than a wall wart and USB cable. I'd like to have my cake and eat it too with an Ipod... Just another opinion.
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From the iPod Gen 9 Manual, Section 5.6
When your iPod runs out of power there is an easy way to recharge it.
Then we really would look like the people in the iPod ads, solid black ... burned to a crisp.
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I would personally love this for long car trips, as I wouldn't need to bring along my laptop just to grab the latest podcasts when I stop at Starbucks.
Got a cell phone? (Score:3, Insightful)
They'll connect their CC# to an iTunes account, to the iPod, and not think twice about it.
Losing their pod is a potential issue, but so is losing your phone.
People just don't seem too concerned. They should probably be a bit more concerned, but they're not.
Apple could even toss a 5 or 6 digit pin on there and an X retry lockout if they wanted, passing the 'security' on your ATM or CC itself, without a serious UI hassle.
And the click wheel is good e
Huh? (Score:2)
Now I can see that it is possible using the new search facility to access and select songs from the iTunes store (if the new iPods had wireless), but surely one of the great things about an iPod is that you can't.
Just because you can use a scroll wheel for text entry and pointing doesn't mean that you shoul
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Finally (Score:4, Funny)
I wonder if they will increase capacity as well
No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.
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Oh, right...the other lame.
Wireless is the future (Score:3, Interesting)
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That's what I said. It's not a technology issue. And when I tout the use of wireless, in my mind the *right* way to do it is to seemlessly blend cellular wireless with WIFI. Imagine a device that could do both (some PDA phones can do this) ... you start a download on WIFI as you leave the house and get into your car. Your WIFI signal drops and the download application automatically opens up a cell connection and continues the download. At the same time your car's radio
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No, the party host would have a wireless-capable receiver. Then each guest that happened to have a (compatible - i.e. Apple "WiPod") wire
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Not as long as you've still got to plug it in anyway to recharge, it doesn't.
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By that argument cell phones are not useful because you have to plug them in to recharge them. When I retire each evening I put my cellphone on a charger. Then all day long I use it wirelessly. Why does everyone insist on tying these 2 activities (charging with downloading) together? Sure, if the only way I can put music into my device is from my PC, then having a cradle that also charges is convenient. But that is not the only us
copying old things (Score:2)
Finally... (Score:4, Funny)
I thought a patent had to be non-obvious. (Score:2, Insightful)
Seriously. How could they get a a patent on this? Is wireless the new "on the internet!" when it comes to patents?
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TFA doesn't say what the patent actually claims but my bet is it is for something quite specific. Perhaps it comes down to the issue another poster raised: how do you retain the pc-ipod relationship if the ipod is out at starbucks buying music?
Maybe the ipod has to log in to the itunes server as the copy of itunes on the pc.
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If you have broadband, and if you are using iTMS you probably do, I don't see why you wouldn't have the option to have iTMS send a copy of anything you download via wireless to your hard drive as well.
You sit at Starbucks downloading My War directly to your iPod, you and your fellow iPodders bandwidthally challenging Starbucks' WRT54G. Meanhile, back at the ranch, iTMS, having secured your permission to do so, places
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If you have broadband, and if you are using iTMS you probably do, I don't see why you wouldn't have the option to have iTMS send a copy of anything you download via wireless to your hard drive as well.
You sit at Starbucks downloading My War directly to your iPod, you and your fellow iPodders bandwidthally challenging Starbucks' WRT54G. Meanhile, back at the ranch, iTMS, having secured your permission to do so, places My War on your hard drive without needing you to click any Oks or reboot or otherwise
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With WiFi, syncing becomes even less painless.
Oops, coffee hasn't quite kicked in yet. That was supposed to be "even more painless", or "even less painful", or maybe "even painless-er".
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What I was thinking though, was that your newly-purchased-via-wireless-at-Starbucks file would already be sitting on your HD at home without the need to sync. I don't know what the need for that might be, but that has never stopped Apple before.
Manual On/Off? (Score:2, Interesting)
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If the iPod controls were better designed, this wouldn't be as much of an issue... with a d-pad based control system, particularly one where it's supplemented by buttons or a jog-wheel you can learn to do an awful lot by feel. But on the iPod you'll need to take it out of your pocket, unlock the click-wheel, then scroll back through the menus to find the wifi control. And a
I'm surprised (Score:2)
They beet apple to the WiFi punch, and I'm sure they thought of this feature and just didn't have time to build the infrastructure.
Hmmm (Score:2)
Stop thinking about downloads (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd love to have my ipod receive Internet radio.
Just imagine (Score:2)
Imagine chatting with someone on the bus or airplane and sharing music with them or listening to the same thing. Imagine plugging in to a small local wireless network comprise
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What other impossible features will this require? (Score:2)
A TMCnet article states that Apple has filed a patent for iPods that can purchase music wireles
WiFi wil be used with iTV (Score:2)
As I stated in a previous post discussing the Zune [slashdot.org], I think iTV is being developed specifically for use with an upcoming WiFi iPod (or is it the WiFiPod?).
Zune Wifi (Score:3, Insightful)
Keeping this in mind (that this is an MS product, and that it's the H&E people behind it), just because the Zune _software_ doesn't do something today (or at launch) doesn't mean it won't do it for ZuneOS "SP1"
After all, Xbox Live didn't come out for 1 year after Xbox was shipped, and X360 1080P support was issued as a software _patch_ on the 360 after Sony thought they could use it to make noise in the competitive space. Progessive Scan dashboard support was another software patch on the original Xbox. Those products _had_ to get out in the market place at the right time to be viable, the cut list must have been severe. Everyone knew the hardware was capable of more than what it launched with, and as the Xbox team got their feet under them, and heard the real-world feedback, and had a chance to breathe a bit, some of the more interesting features that didn't make the original bar started to show up.
I'm telling myself that the current idiotic 3/3 DRM model and the lack of wifi sync on the Zune are temporary things. They'll be corrected via a software update after the Zune launches (even if it means a Linux-based "software update"
This is what I am _telling_ myself (and as an MS employee, I hope it turns out to be accurate) but I don't think i'll actually put my money down until I see it happen.
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And the comment about the battery meter is just stupid.
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I don't run Windows, and I'd never install iTunes even if I did.
And no, the comment about the battery is not stupid if you're sitting at an airport waiting for a 10 hour flight, you have to gauge whether you can listen to music while waiting for the flight or leave it for then....
Part of the problem with the battery life is the amount of buffering the thing does. It tries to read entire songs into memory and shut off the HD, FOR EVERY SONG YOU PLAY. Which is wasteful i
uh, ok (Score:3, Informative)
Oh, and a quick check using df (if you have some form of automounting going on) or a check with dmesg when you plug it in should give you the path
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Good to know.
Tom
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I want to know how to do the same thing you do only on Plan 9 using my homemade iPod to RS485 cable, but of course stupid Apple doesn't put that in their manual.
Stupid Apple!
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Assumptions and ad hominem attacks! You must be very proud.
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First, *nix is a distant third in terms of OSes Apple cares about their ipods running on, so it's not really surprising they don't give this sort of information.
Second, do you have experience with other external storage devices in linux? I eject my external harddrives before disconnecting them, as it occasionally yells at me if I don't.
Also, my creative zen xtra *sometimes* won't go out of usb transfer mode if I don't eject first (it's interesting th
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For FSes like Reiser you can literally just do "sync" and pull the drive out. The FS is entirely atomic and the FS is always intact.
Tom
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If it didn't buffer songs, you'd have a 2-hour battery life instead of 10 hours. Seems like an acceptable tradeoff to me.
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Why Apple didn't just use the filesystem for storing the songs is beyond me. Granted gnupod isn't impossible to use, but god help you if you screw up your XML listing... I had to hand edit mine [too lazy to write a perl script] to remove some dubious song listings...
Also if battery life was such a concern why does Apple do all of the decode in the
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Playing the first 15 seconds of every song without buffering would still reduce battery life dramatically.
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Re:How about play in USB mode? (Score:5, Informative)
This is mostly false. The iPod fills it's buffer with the next songs in the playlist, not one song at a time. Even if it's on shuffle play, it reads ahead the next songs it has cued up. Twenty minutes of buffering is usually five or six songs, depending on song length.
You are correct that choosing a new song or playlist that wasn't cued will force the harddrive to spin up again, but that's what playlists are for, specifically the on-the-go playlists. In actual usage, when I do skip around a bit, I haven't noticed a significant shortening of battery life, but I don't find myself switching around after every single song, either.
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I guess I'm the only person on the entire planet who isn't a DJist about music and has to hear it to know the mood/tempo/etc.
Tom
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What if he's using linux? Or what if he finds the itunes software bloated and annoying, and wishes to use a better program? What if he (logically) wants it to function just like an external harddrive?
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I hook it up to the puter because after my commute to work I want to charge it. It would be nice to be able to listen at the same time.
I have OTHER mp3 players that can accomplish just that task. One of them is a Nintendo DS
Tom
Re:How about play in USB mode? (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux boxes CAN play music, can't they???
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This is the most to-the-point counterargument for the "it doesn't play when plugged in" line I've ever heard. Bravo!
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It's a nice idea, but wireless is slow. Certainly slower than firewire anyway. And these havea lot of storage. Will people really want to spend several hours uploading their mp3 collection?
Well, 802.11g isn't all that slow. I don't think you'd want to fill your new 30GB iPod wirelessly, but it would be fine for syncing, buying music, and exchanging music if such a feature were enabled. Basically, use firewire/USB2 the first time, and wireless after that. I certainly wouldn't mind having such a feature.
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Re:Wireless (Score:5, Interesting)
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Plus by turning the crank you didn't need batteries. Much more reliable IMO...
Now where's my stupid horse wandered off to ?
Re:What's the big deal with wireless? (Score:5, Insightful)
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And even better for Apple, the moment one of these gets stolen with a credit card number on it (I'm assuming here that all that information is stored on the device, they are not making the user enter it in each time they buy a song), they will quickly max it out on iTunes music.
I think there is a reason MS decided to go without this for the Zune.
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I'm thinking this feature would be pretty cool to have; think of a song or album you're dying to have and download it from iTunes store without breaking out the laptop - or maybe even without having the laptop with me! Sweet.
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Just think of the stolen iPod recovery potential, too. "Mr. Smith, the iPod you reported stolen yesterday just logged onto the network in the Starbucks at Central Ave. and Main St. The device has been disabled, an
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Who's the sucker - the one who cherry-picks the two or three songs off an album that they actually like and buys them at 79p each, or the one who buys the CD for £15?
Re:Breaks the 'pod' model (Score:5, Insightful)
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I think Steve really means the Zune use of WiFi is stupid. It could have been really cool but MS decided on a very limited and crippled use to the point where it isn't really functional. That's what he was talking about. MS has hyped it as a big selling feature when it really isn't that useful.