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Airport To Tag Passengers With RFID
Posted by
kdawson
on Sat Oct 14, 2006 06:45 AM
from the say-baaaaa dept.
from the say-baaaaa dept.
denebian devil writes "A new technology is to be trialled in Debrecen Airport in Hungary that will involve tagging all passengers with high-powered RFID tags. From the Register article: 'People will be told to wear radio tags round their necks when they get to the airport. The tag would notify a computer system of their identity and whereabouts. The system would then track their activities in the airport using a network of high definition cameras. "[The tags] have got a long range, of 10m to 20m," said Dr. Paul Brennan of University College London's antennas and radar group which developed the tags, "and the system has been designed so the tag can be located to within a meter, and it can locate thousands of tags in one area at a given time."' The system is being touted for 'Improving airport efficiency, security and passenger flow by enhanced passenger monitoring.' BBC is also reporting this story, and brings up such hurdles to the project as 'finding a way of ensuring the tags cannot be switched between passengers or removed without notification.' As for any mention of the 'hurdle' of people's rights, the article vaguely and briefly states that 'The issue of infringement of civil liberties will also be key,' but doesn't bother to go into any pesky details."
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Dog collars. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Dog collars. (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Dog collars. (Score:5, Funny)
Airport Security: "Those are all the passangers and people in the airport."
FBI: "Well how do we find the terrorist in that sea of dots?"
Airport Security: "Well, they will be the . . . suspicious . . . dots."
FBI: "Whats a suspicious dot look like?"
Airport Security: "You'll have to talk to my supervisor. I just watch the dots."
Parent
Re:Dog collars. (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Dog collars. (Score:4, Insightful)
Terrorists Win!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Or am I thinking lightsabres?
Yeah, real funny... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Airport Security: "Sure. Here you go [quest3d.com]."
"Security" is a misnomer (Score:4, Insightful)
The word is enforcement. Better still, control. These measures are all designed to control the population, not to ensure its security.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Luggage? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Luggage? (Score:5, Funny)
Thats the idea. Passengers and luggage will be merged. You bring along an extra suitcase and they seal you inside at the check in counter.
Parent
Re: (Score:3)
and yet they still manage to lose mine...
Wouldn't this be a little late? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd be interested to know exactly what problem tagging everyone is supposed to solve. Airports are already compartmentalised and people must show their boarding card / passport to move from one area to the next . So what difference would an RFID tag make? It might actually weaken the system since humans will be less attentive than they are now. I suppose it might have marginal benefits such as when you're trying to locate a person exactly but it hardly appears to warrant the expense of the system.
Besides, a bad person who is intent on blowing themselves up on the plane makes every effort to abide by the same rules as other passengers. How does this system do anything at all to detect them? And terrorists who just want to kill a bunch of people at the airport can do that easily too - there are enough densely packed queues in airports to easily facilitate mass murder whether the terrorist has a valid passport, ticket, id or RFID or not. I'm surprised that it doesn't happen all the time. The queues are out the door on some days of the year.
Parent
Re: (Score:3)
Well, I believe one of the side benefits mentioned was being able to find lost kids. Think of the children!!
Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? Sales, man SALE (Score:3, Insightful)
1. Don't kill off the SALES man! This is the fine work of government to RFP for bids. Lockheed can win global contracts and then farm them out to their privileged few subcontractors.
2. I suspect the anti-tamper feature will incorporate some sort of stun mechanism.
3. Imagine being pulled into an on-site interrogation room and being asked:
- WHY did you visit the bathrooms 13 times. WHY THOSE 13?
- WHY did you hug THOSE two people? Do you know they hugged 3 others elsewhere in the airport?
4. Maybe they sho
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The cynical answer would be, the problem of people who think they are free citizens.
Is it just me, or has commercial air travel hit the floor of tolerability already?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Are airport operators really so stupid that they need to pay someone huge sums of money to tell them when there's a long queue of people at security? Are they blind?
Well, it does say "Tag" (Score:5, Funny)
Just count yourself fortunate that they've given up on their branding idea...
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Why. (Score:5, Insightful)
"Yes, and as you can see that the terrorist loitered a lot near the toilets. Of course, quite a few people do that as well while waiting for relatives to finish their business, so we can't use that as a reliable indicator of evil intent. But I'm sure, in time, we'll find something that will show us for certain. Please, we need more funds for research."
the script on the monitoring side (Score:3, Funny)
if ($country_trust_level{$RFID->citizenship} < 5) {
run_1984($RFID);
}
would you trust someone from Andorra? (Score:4, Funny)
Andorra? Their twitchy antennea and their smurfy complexion always make me so nervous.
Parent
Information overload (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Security? (Score:4, Insightful)
To me, this sounds like an efficiency study that they tacked on the word "Security" in order to sidestep the civil liberties issues. We've seen this done plenty of times before, but I'm amazed at how transparent it is here.
Re:Security? (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with these techniques, of course, is the normalizing effect. Everybody that does something weird, or out of the ordinary gets observed. Little charming quirks in your personality, like sitting down on the floor in some empty space instead of sitting in on a bench in the crowded waiting area, will instantly arouse suspicion. Do what everybody does, or you'll be suspected, watched and usually, gently prodded back in line. All human societies have an inherent normalizing effect. In this case the reason isn't just security, improving efficiency usually means weeding out the weirdos as well. And all technology does in these cases is amplify that effect. Just think of the whole slashdot moderation thing, it works beautifully, but it also makes the groupthink a lot stronger (and the slashdot crowd is on the whole a relatively intelligent and critical subset of society).
Of course any real terrorist will make sure that he (or she) acts as normal as possible. In fact with the amount of attention being paid to air travel, terrorists are probably just looking for less secured areas (like the the Spanish train bombings or the London subway).
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
This is the classic geek mistake when examining security - to assume it's a logic puzzle or chessboard. In the real world, if you can place an obstacle in your adversary's path, you gain an advantage. Of course he will probably go around it, but it gives him an additional burden and an additional chance to make a mistake.
There are probably thousands of variations on an airplane terrorist attack,
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
People wouldn't be treated like sheep, if they didn't behave like sheep.
A matter of trust (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:A matter of trust (Score:4, Interesting)
But...but...I'm still alive!
Tell that to the court! We have solid evidence that you were involved in the bombing; your tag was found at the explosion site!
My tag? My tag! Where's my tag? It's been stolen!
Enough of that! We have it on record: you were in the middle of the explosion when it happened. You can object all you want, but everybody knows that computers don't make mistakes. You're guilty and you know it!
Parent
10m to 20m? (Score:3, Insightful)
If their maximum range is only 20 meters, I would certainly hope they can be accurate to within 1.
</pedant>
High Powered RFID tags? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID#Active [wikipedia.org]
Before everyone starts jumping the gun (Score:3, Insightful)
Sheeple gave up their liberties long ago (Score:3, Insightful)
+Godwinned?
Story sumbitted two days ago (Score:2)
Re:Story sumbitted two days ago (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
How does this improve security? (Score:3, Insightful)
Worse, this system is actually going to make matters worse: it costs money, people need to be watching the system, and people need to investigate whateven "suspicious behavior" occurs. All this takes resources away from more effective measures.
At least, that's how I see it. Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe this system is dumb. Or maybe it actually rather cleverly serves a purpose _other_ than security (e.g. putting money in the pockets of the designers).
Terrorists rare, tourists common. (Score:5, Insightful)
Evaluation (Score:3, Funny)
We proudly present the results of the evaluation of the ultra airport security system. During the evaluation, no acts of terrorism were committed in this airport. Clearly, the system is a great success and well worth the investment. We recommend the system to be kept in place and be installed in other airports and public places, as well.
oh those pesky little details... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's because the people setting all this up consider "civil liberties" to be one of those "pesky details".
Civil Liberties is not a set of rules that inconvenience you, that you should work to find ways around. If you are trying to find ways around laws designed to protect the public from abuse, you are not assulting the law, you are assulting the principles and ideals that the law was made for, and endangering those people whom those laws are designed to protect.
At this point (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
From now on, I'm no longer flying.
Re:Outright refusal to be tagged! (Score:5, Insightful)
The idea of collars sounds horrible, but after people realize that the consequences of "their choise" to not wear one are much worse, people will start to accept them.
Stay citizen, come here citizen, fetch your papers citizen. Good citizen, here is a boarding pass for you.( Pats citizen on head )
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
In that sense, as long as I can fly a Cessna full of gas into the passenger cabin of a airliner that is about to take off, I don't think we need to worry about exactly where people are inside the airport.
Re:The 'hurdle' of people's rights? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm no fucking not-a-suicide-pact posner [amazon.com] but in my opinion when the 'monitoring' goes from the guys with the donuts to the billion-dollar government contracts for systemic automated surveillance the government has already overstepped the bounds of what constitutes a reasonable search and is in violation of the 4th Amendement.
Parent
Re:What about its benefits? (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Being able to locate passengers in areas that are off-limits
Sounds good on the surface, in reality it's really fucking stupid and it's obvious that you have no idea of how security works. Where I work we wear keycard badges and have access controlled areas (labs, machine rooms, etc) that the badges will let you into. If you are in one of these areas and you see someone who doesn't have a badge and who you don't know you're supposed to ask who they are and what they are doing there, I'm certainly going to do this if I find someone in my machine room and I don't know who they are and they don't have a badge. At the airport you do the same thing, you restrict access to certain areas and you require anyone who works in those areas to wear a badge. Anyone who doesn't have a badge isn't supposed to be there. Passengers shouldn't ever be able to get into areas that are off-limits and placing guards at the access points of the restricted areas and having a few that roam the restricted areas checking up on things is a cheaper, less intrusive and more effective than tagging everyone and implemeting ubiquitous surveillance. Also all someone has to do is take this tag off, in which case your magical locating system doesn't work any more, unless of course you're advocating shoving them up everyone's ass or something.
2. In the event of a catastrophy sic being able to find passengers that are missing or potentially injured and being able to get there quicker to potentially save a life.
Sounds nice, but it's blatantly stupid. What kind of catastrophe are we talking about here? Airports are limited areas, if something bad happens finding people is going to be pretty easy, unless of course it's a WTC style collapse, in which case all that those RFID tags are going to tell you is that you've got a lot of corpses in the rubble. Also if something really bad happens any conscientious group of rescuers is going to have to check the whole area anyways in case someone's RFID tag was damaged or torn from their body.
3. Locating lost children
I'm not wearing a dog collar so that some breeder can find his fucking kids. Keep an eye on your fucking brat and stop trying to restrict my freedom or take away my dignity by saying "it's for the children".
4. Making sure the amount of passengers that are checked in / checked out / boarded at any time eliminating any discrepancies should a problem arise.
We already have this. Well we don't in the US, but that's because our airport security is shit, despite TSA's claims to the contrary. But if you fly through London Heathrow or Munich or Frankfurt or Schiphol your bags don't get on the plane unless you're on the plane. If you are late boarding the plane, and I've had a couple of close calls at LHR, your bags will end up staying at the airport and will go out on the next flight. This is the biggest security threat we have, bombs in luggage, not knowing where everyone is at all times. Implementing positive bag matching would do a lot more to improve secuirty than requirinhg everyone to wear an RFID dog collar.
5) From a marketer's perspective - selling the data to the shops / food stands inside. Selling the data to advertisers and designating high value areas where there is the most traffic.
Marketers are shit and should be rounded up and sent to death camps, anyone who advocates making me wear an RFID dog collar so it's easier for marketers to track me and get data about me without my consent should be gut shot and left to die on a lonely stretch of desert highway on a hot summer's day.
6. If there is a problem, checking that passenger's last known whereabouts to see what they were doing from the moment they checked in. If they met with airport staff posing as an insider prior to boarding etc. With that information, it could lead to the quicker arrest and breakup of other terrorist cells.
Great, ex post facto law enforce
Parent