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GoDaddy Caves To Irish Legal Threat
Posted by
kdawson
on Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:43 PM
from the lawyers-guns-and-money dept.
from the lawyers-guns-and-money dept.
crush writes, "An Irish website RateYourSolicitor.com, which aims to let clients find and rate solicitors (a British Isles flavor of lawyer), has received an Irish High Court injunction to remove defamatory material about one such rated solicitor. The site is hosted by a US provider, gmax.net, which has reportedly been served notice by lawyers acting for the defamed solicitor. According to the article, GoDaddy, as the domain name registrar, has locked access to the site (registration or bugmenot required). (Amusingly, the records are all for a 'John Smith' in the Russian Federation at 'lawyercatcher@lawyer.com'!) An interesting twist to all of this is that according to the Communications Decency Act, an ISP, as a publisher, cannot be held responsible or legally liable for what their clients do. So how can GoDaddy justify this censorship? Or are registrars the weak link in a system that seems like it ought to be robust against censorship?"
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GoDaddy Holds Domains Hostage 389 comments
saikou writes "There were previous reports of GoDaddy, one of the biggest domain name registrars, attacking Bittorrent sites with frivolous interpretation of their own Terms of Service (that story was resolved), and now similar events unfold with clients of one of Russian domain registrars Majordomo.ru -- GoDaddy has informed them that all 1399 client domains are now blocked (story in Russian) due to 'many of your domain names were
listed in the Spamhaus.org blacklist or were resolving to a name server
or IP address listed in the Spamhaus.org blacklist' with a demand of a neat '$199 non-refundable
administration fee to the credit card on file for your account for each
domain name you wish to reactivate' or $50 for each domain to be transferred out into another registrar.
I am all for fighting spam, but given how unreliable spam black-lists are such actions simply damage the internet. Instead of affecting people that use spam lists to control the inflow of mail to some degree, all users are effectively forced to be black-list clients.
Now all one needs to shut down a site is a few reports of spamming, and the domain (or even better, all domains of a given small registrar) will be suspended."
[+]
Ask Slashdot: Alternative Registrars to GoDaddy? 218 comments
Futurepower(R) wrote in to ask for your suggestions about reliable domain name registrars. With GoDaddy, the one-time favorite registrar, suspending domains based on the wishes of the Irish High Court, and 'requests' from MySpace, is it any wonder that people are starting to lose faith in it? A word of warning from the last article linked in the last sentence: "(GoDaddy) reserves the right to terminate your access to the services at any time, without notice, for any reason whatsoever." Chilling words from a domain name registrar. So what registrars would you recommend for people looking to replace GoDaddy, and how would you suggest they go about transferring their domains in a hassle-free manner?
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Maybe not censorship? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Censorship by any other name... (Score:5, Interesting)
We ostensibly have freedom of speech, and don't legally ban things like hate speech as they do in France, for example. Instead we use our corporations to enforce the same kinds of restrictions against "offensive content" and such.
In this case, GoDaddy's TOS includes this gem:
So any jackass could shut you down by threatening to sue GoDaddy. Niiiice.
"Freedom of the press belongs to those who own one."
[TOS = "Terms of Service", you know -- the huge page of small print that you scroll past in order to click the "I agree" button.]
Parent
Re:Censorship by any other name... (Score:4, Insightful)
So find yourself another host. One with pockets so deep they don't have to worry about limiting their exposure. Good luck on that one.
Parent
Re:Censorship by any other name... (Score:5, Informative)
Side note: "your" freedom of speech is one predicated on government involvement. Specifically, the lack therein. It does not, however, compel a newspaper to print your article or letter to the editor. It merely prevents the government (in theory) deciding for the newspaper that it won't. The newspaper is still free to deny your article for any reason, whether trivial (it spelled "its" wrong) or conspiratorial ("for the common good").
Similarly, ISPs are free to restrict who gets to use their service. (Of course, there are other repercussions here - if they take an overtly active role in this, for example, they lose common-carrier status, and thus become liable for everything, where "overtly" and "active" are loosely defined based on case law.) If GoDaddy doesn't want to provide service to pornographers or spammers, that's their business. If GoDaddy has a weak stomach for lawsuits, that, too, is their business. However, even if they do have a strong stomach for lawsuits, their TOS says that they reserve the right to make decisions to terminate service unilaterally based on their perception of the lawsuit. The "with or without merit" part is simply a cover-your-ass statement that says that you and they could even disagree about the winnability of a lawsuit, but they still get to make the call. That's there just because someone got sued at some point in the past for doing something like capitulating over what turned out to be nothing, I'm sure.
So, please. Do not bring up freedom of speech. Your constitutional amendment to that effect is irrelevant. At least to this situation.
(Disclaimer: nothing in here says you are wrong for disliking GoDaddy. Just as you're free to express your view, I am mine. I'm not preventing you from blaming free speech - just trying to explain it a bit more.)
Parent
Don't you get it? (Score:5, Interesting)
You can't go anywhere now and put out fliers because there's ordninances against it. You can't broadcast online because ISP's shut you down when you say something "objectionable enough".
We need free speech zones on the internet that do not depend on corporations or Government.
Parent
Re:Don't you get it? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's called your computer. Specifically, for you, the one you own.
You have the Freedom of Speech. Nowhere is it written that you have Freedom of Easy-to-Access Speech or the Freedom of Everyone-has-to-help-you-so-ISP's-gimme-a-cable-l
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Tell me, Mr. Infernal, what good is a phone call... if you are unable to speak?
Re:Don't you get it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Technically speaking, using the rules of English, that's Mr. Device. Be that as it may
what good is a phone call... if you are unable to speak?
Let's see here. There's pen and paper (could get your hands lopped off or perhaps your eyes gouged out) or ultimately, you can still walk out the door and communicate directly with your supplicants.
I get the general gist of your argument - really, I do. But you need to understand that no one person, corporation, business, or other entity is required to help you with whatever your mission is. Count yourself lucky that for the most part, these businesses aren't too worried about it - it's a side effect of the communications business that you have the ability to spread your screed over a wide area.
But it doesn't have to be that way and you should not count on it if what you have to say is particularly disturbing to the rest of society (or even some small part of it - as long as it's influential). Ultimately, you are only guaranteed the Freedom, not the means to utilize it in a convenient manner.
Parent
Mod parent up. (Score:2)
Mod parent up. So few people seem to get this.
No, I get it. (Score:3, Insightful)
However, do you really want to live in a place where Freedom of Speech is merely a hypothetical idea rather than a practical truth? Is the US really a better place than China, Russia or any other country when freedom of speech only exists when it doesn't offend anyone? Do you have freedom of speech if anyone can shut down your speech?
Re: (Score:2)
So, you would force them to behave as you would wish? Against their free will? Nice.
There is no issue of freedom of speech as the parent said. You are free to set up the same service and not cave to whomever. No freedom of speech issue, regardless of your desire to cloak your agenda.
"You can't go anywhere now and put out fliers because there's ordninances against it."
That is a bla
DNS Registrar free speech zone (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
You never could go "anywhere" to hand out fliers. You can hand out fliers on your property, and on public property. You cannot hand out your fliers on someone else's property.
It sounds to me like you've never tried. Every lunchtime where I live there are dozens of people standing on the streetcorners handing out leaflets for various sandwich joints. It's all perfectly legal. You should go outside and try stuff, in
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I drive around here every day. No fliers anywhere, except a few staked signs during election time. The ones that do go up, get taken down within a day. I actually timed it once for an unbelieving in-law.
no.. (Score:5, Insightful)
No landlord, once the person has signed a lease, is allowed to evict their tenant for things like voting habits, their tendency to protest their favorite political party, their tendency to denounce the company they work for, etc.
If they tried it they could be sued into destitution.
The same thing with wrongful termination. While empolyers have the right to not hire you, once you are hired theyre not allowed to fire you for things like the hobbies you keep in your spare time or your political affiliation.
Finally, and most importantly, with increased power or wealth comes increased responsibility. Webhosting companies, like corporations who dominate a geographic area in terms of employment opportunity, estensibly have power rivaling a government and carrying the same weight.. as such they should be held to the same constitutional standards as the government, otherwise those constitutional guarantees don't mean jack.
Parent
Are you surprised? (Score:2)
You have GoDaddy charging next to nothing for domain names and you expect to get the same service you'd get from a real registrar? C'mon.
Not exactly! (Score:2)
This is not just somebody threatening to sue. This is a solicitor/lawyer threatening to sue. Of course a threat is not a lawsuit, but a lawyer threatening to sue on their own behalf and then filing a lawsuit is more likely than someone who has to pay an attorney $300/hour.
I had an attorney not take my threat of filing a suit seriously, until I provided h
Re: (Score:2)
If you are going to have a any sort of domain that may cause any kind of controversy the first thing you need is an acurate address. I have had a couple domains shut down because of this.
All it takes is one person who doesn't agree with you to report your domain name WHOIS information as inacurate!
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps GoDaddy is blocking them not out of pure censorship, but because this scandal has revealed that one of the domains they manage doesn't have correct WHOIS information, which many registrars require in the TOS?
GoDaddy has a record of "shoot first ask questions later" when it comes to whois details. A previous employer used to have his domains shut down several times a year because the whois info pointed to the Dominican Republic and Godaddy just couldn't get their heads around the fact that the ad
GoDaddy, cowardice, and non-free speech. (Score:5, Informative)
Check out this excerpt from their Registration Agreement [godaddy.com]:
It's not exactly a free-speech-friendly contract, is it? You can lose your registration for embarrassing someone. This is why I never moved any of my domains to GoDaddy when I was working for them. You can't count on them to stay out of legal battles that other registrars would ignore. Instead, they'll kill your registration, and expect to be patted on the back for being good citizens.
Sometimes, I think their real problem is that they want everyone to like them.
Parent
(-1, Wrong) (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
The Republic of Ireland is contained within the geographic area of the British Isles. That's not politics, it's geography. Which obviously neither those of you who modded this insightful, nor the original poster have ever studied.
What Do You Expect For 8.95? (Score:3, Insightful)
Frankly you get what you pay for. I'm a happy GoDaddy customer but I if I wanted a registrar who will stand up under legal challenges I don't think it would be unreasonable to switch to a registrar who charges more per domain.
Re:What Do You Expect For 8.95? More than this (Score:2)
Your argument might be valid if they had to defend every domain from legal challenges. But they don't. Nobody does. And by standing up against the few challenges for the many domains they manage along the way, they probably both reduce the likelihood of future challenges (especially if they seek repayment of legal fees afterwards each time they win
Your logic is bad. (Score:2)
It's quite reasonable that for $8.95/month, GoDaddy can't afford your 'insurance', and if you want to participate in 'domain name lawsuit insurance', you'll have to go with a provider who provides it, and charges $14.95/yr, or more.
Re: (Score:2)
Um, because they aren't IN the US? 1. The US would not have jurisdiction against the Defendant, since he's apparently an Irishman, in Ireland. 2. US courts would have no reason to judge the case, since basically everything about it (except for a few servers) is in Ireland. All the evidence and witnesses are in Ireland. 3. It's going to be governed b
Who's Your Daddy (Score:3, Interesting)
After all, GoDaddy is owned by a Conservative [bobparsons.com] making his fortune from domain squatting [google.com]. I expect there's quite a lot going on under the hood. I'm looking forward to his explanation, as are many, many people who registered with GoDaddy who expect due process before sudden shutdown.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Your turn.
Not a surprise (Score:2)
Seriously, I'm not surprised. It's been a controversial idea in Ireland and there's really not much of an ability to defend your reputation without resorting to tougher measures. There was a lot of similar controversy with ratemyteacher.com when some of the allegations made on the site were troubling. In some cases the site was used to make (false) allegations of sexual and/or physical abuse. Teachers were rightly outraged.
To be fair I think that
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Not a surprise (Score:5, Insightful)
A car mechanic who does a bad job can waste money and cause inconvenience. Lawers abusing the system can shut down entire industries, for example light aircraft manufacturing.
An electrician who does a bad job can make someone's house burn down. A lawyer who does a bad job can let a client go to Death Row (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid
A floor tile installer who does a bad job can shake someone's faith in floor tile installers. A lawyer who does a bad job can shake the trust in the court system that holds society together.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
A car mechanic who does a bad job can waste money and cause inconvenience.
Said car mechanic could potentially cause death and destruction, if their work screws up the car's brakes or accelerator, etc. In fact, even the bad floor tile installer could lead to someone being injured (or even killed, if particularly unlucky), if they slip or trip on the tiles.
All the examples you quote could lead to people dying. I agree, though, that in terms of maximum like
How is it censorship... (Score:2)
Also, it *sounds* as though the domain was registered with fraudulent information (okay, I guess there *could* be a John Smith in Russia). If this is true it would be a violation of ICANN's policy on domain registration, not GoDaddy's.
WHOIS (Score:3, Informative)
John Smith
krasnaya ploschad
Moskva 00000
Russian Federation
Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: RATEYOURSOLICITOR.COM
Created on: 02-Jul-05
Expires on: 02-Jul-10
Last Updated on: 15-Jul-05
Administrative Contact:
Smith, John lawyercatcher@lawyer.com
krasnaya ploschad
Moskva 00000
Russian Federation
714987650
Technical Contact:
Smith, John lawyercatcher@lawyer.com
krasnaya ploschad
Moskva 00000
Russian Federation
714987650
Domain servers in listed order:
PARK13.SECURESERVER.NET
PARK14.SECURESERVER.NET
Registry Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Registry Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Registry Status: clientUpdateProhibited
Registry Status: clientTransferProhibited
Registry Status: clientRenewProhibited
Go Daddy Caves To Irish Legal Threat (Score:2)
The Communications Deceny Act is American law. That doesn't insulate you from the law of the U.K.
The CD Act protects ISPs from liability for third-party content. Not from content that the ISP creates or publishes itself. You might want to host MySpace. You might not want to o
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Ireland is not in the U.K. so the laws there have absolutely no bearing on this situation. It is my understanding that the Irish fought against British occupation for several centuries and then topped it off with a war from 1916 to 1922. There's a good new movie out called The Wind that Shakes the Barley [imdb.com] about it.
So, a better question might be, are US hosted websites and registrars under the control of Irish courts? I don't understand how an Irish court ruling makes any difference to a US company. Wha
Re: (Score:2)
Oh and one other point, its not the British Isles, submitter. Except in Britain. As far as the rest of the world is concerned, its the Republic of Ireland, something that irritates the brits no end. :D
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
But sure don't all English people take it up the arse? Its a well known fact! Lord knows every english bird I've ever known does. :D Whats your name, maybe you're related?
One More Strike Against GoDaddy (Score:4, Interesting)
But GD was already on my don't do business with list when they tried to trick me into transferring my own domain to them. Mine is paid through 2008, and they sent several e-mails to the contact address basically implying that to save it I needed to transfer it to them quickly and pay more money. I despise that tactic from any domain registrar of trying to poach customers in this manner.
Having very sexy women in their TV ads isn't enough to make up for the above.
Do meddle in the affairs of solicitors.. (Score:2)
And, being solicitors, are never far from, er, a solicitor.
Fair play to them for trying though.
The price of phony domain registration (Score:4, Informative)
The owner of that domain is listed as
John Smith
krasnaya ploschad
Moskva 00000
Russian Federation
714987650
lawyercatcher@lawyer.com
("krasnaya ploschad" is Red Square, the big plaza in front of the Kremlin.)
Ordinarily, faced with obnoxious registrar behavior, you can transfer the domain to another registrar. Given this phony domain registration info, thus domain owner can't do that.
That's the price of phony domain registration info - any trouble, and you lose the domain.
Recommendations on better registrars? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:"British"? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Sites that require registration (Score:4, Informative)
Parent