Microsoft's 'Naughty or Nice' Patent Application 125
theodp writes "Those of you worried about Microsoft's stance on network neutrality won't find much comfort in the software giant's just-published patent application for systems and methods to facilitate self regulation of social networks through trading and gift exchange, which classify users as good or bad and call for network bandwidth to be reduced for those deemed 'less desirable.'"
Ha, bloody ha. (Score:2)
Re:Ha, bloody ha. (Score:5, Funny)
$bandwidth--;
}
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If (Instr(Comments, "linux") Or Instr(Comments, "gnu")) Then
. . . Let Bandwidth = Bandwidth - 1
End If
(I haven't touched a BASIC-like language in a decade, so don't beat me up too badly if it's wrong.)
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And yes, there are dozens of scripting languages out there. But AFAIK, there is only one that MS supports out of box. Of course you can run perl.exe on Windows; but that rather defeats the purpose of my admittedly unremarkable attempt at humor, now doesn't it?
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You were close - with the advent of dot net, you could replace your let statement with Bandwidth -= 1
Ahh, the marvels of modern technology.
limitation (Score:3, Interesting)
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Re:limitation (Score:5, Insightful)
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"Discord5 Industries" is happy to announce that it has recently aqcuired the patent to "limiting the amounts of patents one company may have". While one may wonder what my company could possible have invented (or will invent) with this patent, we are happy to report that we have opened a lawsuit against the company "Eneville Technologies" for infringing our intellectual property.
While we are certain that our ridiculous patent will
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Brilliant! (Score:5, Funny)
If you post a link to the patent instead of an article, you're virtually guaranteeing that no one will read the fucking article, let alone understand it! And just think of the wacky hijinks and hilarity that are bound to ensue from there!
Re:Brilliant! (Score:5, Insightful)
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good/bad for microsoft i'm sure (Score:1)
A terrible idea (Score:5, Funny)
(PS pls mod me up!)
Not only that (Score:4, Funny)
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This would be great, but we'll need some UI changes. First off, you want to list karma score in Mb/s. Also, it would be nice to have a "+1 pity" moderation option for those who can no longer read their mail....
Net neutrality ONlY for natural monopolies (Score:5, Interesting)
In most other situations, market/social forces will usually make the right result come out.
only if you're in econ 101 (Score:3, Interesting)
there's a reason why phrases such as asymmetric information and channel management exist. and why poor people pay more for the same services as rich people. it's called marketing, appropriately enough.
weeeee. market forces!! they created the current patent system, moron, along with pro-business new jersey laws, and self-regulation schemes. not to mention redlining, and zipcode based insurance, and new products paying fo
Took a while... (Score:5, Interesting)
While you can look at it one way and say this is just a logical extension of rewarding 'good' users, the fact that the system can be used to punish 'bad' users and explains nothing about how this definition of 'good' and 'bad' will be determined makes me more concerned for the people using such a service.
I bloody well wouldn't.
Re:Took a while... (Score:4, Informative)
Never used p2p then? All modern p2p applications do this. For example, the ed2k protocol maintains a list of clients on each box. Whenever you download from someone, it remembers that. When it comes to uploading, the application checks the user against the file and jumps the queue if you have received from them in the past.
Rewarding those who give back is nothing new. The slashdot moderation system is an example of this. Jeez, even customer loyalty schemes are an equivalent in meatspace. There's a lot of prior art on this sort of thing.
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The only other system I can think of that actively rates down bad users is torrent-like applications that limit download bandwidth if you limit upload bandwidth.
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Agreed, this does seem to be deliberate punishment. However, ed2k maintains queues exceeding 3000 users on you upload queue. Believe me, that's punishment! Actually, the numbers may actually go in the opposite direction on really bad clients. I t
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Since when has meatspace prior art prevented a software patent from being approved? "It's just like $physicalprocess, except it's on a computer."
And as for the implications of a social networking site downgrading service to nebulously-defined 'bad' users, the effect is quite simple -- you lose those users to your competition. Good-bye clicks, good-bye revenue. Though, of course, 'bad' use
Will it work on Linux/Mac? (Score:2, Interesting)
But MS probably have insulated themselves against it anyway...
Re:Will it work on Linux/Mac? (Score:4, Insightful)
What happens if a lot of Linux/Mac users give Microsoft a bad rating.
I don't think enough Linux and Mac users could give enough bad rating to MS for it to matter
Neutrality of whom's network? (Score:2)
Confused? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Confused? (Score:4, Interesting)
I can't see anything in the article saying the network owner will start reducing your bandwidth for YouTube if you were a "bad" user on Microsoft Service X in this patent. You'd only be affected if using Microsoft Service X by Microsoft themselves. Like another way of punishing users than downmodding on Slashdot, but perhaps better applied to high bandwidth media content. Shouldn't Microsoft has the right to dedicate their server resources like they want?
My problem is mostly about companies paying actual network owners to get improved quality of service which could affect users in totally different ways than this.
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If it were ever applied to networking, it would most likely be a bandwidth reservation system that gives good uploaders more download bandwidth on a P2P network. That sounds kind of familiar, isn't there a P2P protocol out there that already does this? I can't remember what it's called, something about bits and torrents?
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I haven't uploaded for a while, so I'm still waiting for my shower of 3/8" Moly bits to complete.
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The Microsoft patent is all about different internet users getting allocated bandwidth based on some bullshit criteria.
See?
It's not their fault (Score:1)
Slashdot infringes (Score:5, Interesting)
"1. A system that facilitates self-regulation of a social network comprising: a network monitoring component that watches user behavior on the social network; and an asset allocation component that allocates or re-allocates one or more assets among one or more network users based at least in part on whether the user behavior is desirable."
As I read that, the Slashdot moderation system infringes. The "network monitoring component" is the editors and the moderators. They "watch user behavior on the social network". The "asset allocation component" is the karma, which affects how broadly users' messages get seen. Lastly, "based
Re:Slashdot infringes (Score:5, Informative)
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Uhh - if something exists before the patent, it's called "prior art", not infringement.
Surely that depends on how much cash you have for lawyers?
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1. a stored sequence of commands for instructing a computing device,
2. such that...
would cover every program ever written. Which, btw, is how every software patent used to start.
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"If the independent claim is determined to be invalid, however, a dependent claim may nevertheless survive, and may still be broad enough to bar competitors from valuable commercial territory. "
Bittorrent is prior art (Score:2)
"r systems and methods to facilitate self regulation of social networks through trading and gift exchange, which classify users as good or bad and call for network bandwidth to be reduced for those deemed 'less desirable.'"
Sounds a lot like how bittorrent does bandwidth throttling - give away a lot of chunks, you get back a lot of chunks; be miserly in your upload rate, and get bit-slapped (no, that's not a type - its a pun :-)
MOD PARENT UP!! (Score:1)
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As I read that, the Slashdot moderation system infringes.
Indeed the Slashdot mod system is prior art. But there's a much more clear-cut example: Bittorrent. And if you wan
Prior Art (Score:2)
Come on, guys....
Re:Prior Art (Score:5, Interesting)
There's so many prior art examples of this it's just silly.
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OK, so how do you/I/anyone go about emailing the USPTO to that effect?
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Tyranny of the masses (Score:4, Funny)
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Ive noticed if anyone says anything too anti-establishment (especially anti-religion or anti-USA) it gets modded to flamebait, even if it was a valid argument.
It's a website moderation system. (Score:5, Insightful)
Although the patent is questionable, (it sounds similar to the Slashdot Karma System to me) it doesn't sound like something that will be used for net neutrality.
Taxonomy of obvious ideas (Score:2)
Re:Taxonomy of obvious ideas (oops on parent) (Score:2)
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Maybe some stupid obvious patents could be prevented like this: Pick a friendly noble license everyone's likely to be comfortable with (Creative Commons, GPL, or whatever). Set up a site that allow two kinds of community contributions under that license: (1) Descriptions of individual algorithms in any of a number of languages (perhaps pseudocode among them), (2) Descriptions of possible systems that can be derived from combinations
AC (Score:5, Interesting)
For that matter does this mean my karma might buy me more bandwidth?
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Evil bits (Score:3, Funny)
Many ISPs and social networks already use similar criteria to guide subscribers on correct behaviour of the network. My ISP imposes restrictions on the bandwidth I can use every month and when I can use it during the day (a maximum of 10Gb@peak time every month). Many bit torrent communities also specify that you have to share at least the amount of data that you have downloaded, to deter leechers.
The Microsoft Tax (Score:1)
Has anyone tried patenting oxygen lately?
Heh. Prior Art? You're read it. (Score:4, Insightful)
*chuckle*
Anyhoo, just what we need -- more technologically-enforced tyranny by majority.
The Mother of All Prior Art (Score:2)
Presumably Microsoft's point is that this is bad patent claim feedback, so if you submit it, you'll get less bandwidth for submitting future patent claim feedback.
But seriously, yes, this is the Mother of all Prior Art, or rather, to untangle the metaphor properly, the Ungrateful Stepchild of all Prior Art. After all, creating a predicate for goodness and badness and then throttling bandwidth based on that seems to me to be a descripti
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I'm sure the hardline chi-comms would loooove something like this, but for those of us who want a free world and a free market, it's damned nearly the end of the line. Ah well.
Understanding Survival of the Fittest (Score:3, Insightful)
If you think that evolution and neural nets are doing anything more grandiose, you're in for a rude awakening one day.
The phrase "survival of the fittest" should always cause you to ask "fittest for what?". You should not assume "fit" in this sentence means the kind of "fit" that your doctor (hopefully) proclaims you when you go in for a physical, meaning "fit in all ways". Fittest in the "survival of the fitt
Prior art. (Score:5, Funny)
high school again? (Score:1)
network neutrality is BS from the start... (Score:1)
I PAY to have bandwidth on my ISP... THEY PAY to have LOTS of bandwidth to sell to the customers... the People that they get it from PAY some HUGE company (used to be Sprint I think... , Still is?) for that bandwidth to sell and they maintain those lines for ME. Everyone making profit on they way up the ladder.
Now YouTube comes along... And I want to watch a video... Gues what... SAME thing tracks back as above for YouTube. YouTube is paying
Preferential Attachment (Score:1)
Live Service? (Score:1)
XBox live? (Score:2, Interesting)
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How much of this is prior art? (Score:2)
Is slashdot prior art? (Score:1, Redundant)
I think this one is yet another example of the USPTO granting patents for things that are obvious.
And this is Novel, how? (Score:1)
Metamoderation? (Score:1)
Anybody remember Alan Sokal? (Score:2)
Is this intentional mockery of a broken patent system? These guys are patenting a system to reward people who tell some tracker they've emailed links and photos to friends? (And no, I'm not making this up. See pp 54,55.) A system that can forbid transfer *based on content or identity* (p 53)?
A system that can optionally run on your computer? (p 43)?
And these are the details?
um (Score:1)
Some other p2p systems do this too
Amazon beat them to it (Score:3)
Is this not what Bittorrent does already? (Score:1)
Or does this mean that they are going to buy Bittorent?
sigh (Score:2)
Also, not all prior art is obvious. Sure it muight be obvious to YOU, but not to everyone.
Also, Obvious mean thinking ahead, not using hindsight.
Sounds like torrent (Score:1)
Microsoft's gifts... (Score:2)
Based on the "gifts" MS has bestowed on us, I'd have have to deem them "less desirable". Maybe this is why MS Update seems so slow... </troll> :-)
I like it (Score:2)
I think
Hel, I think lifes response time should be based on your karma.
Prohibitive patent (Score:2)
Just a thought... You know, one of those thoughts...
Sounds Taxable. I hope MS plan to pay (Score:2)
This sounds like payment in kind [urbandictionary.com] (aka benefit in kind [ir35calc.co.uk]) which could be taxable [babinc.org].
IANAA and tax rules vary.
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Let's see if we can't find some prior art on this.
1. Nelson Mandela
2. Ghandi
3. Jean D'Arc
4. Jesus
I doubt even Billy G. is going to be able to rip this patent out from the hands of the Vatican
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