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Apple Warns Companies About 'Pod' Naming

Posted by timothy on Thu Aug 17, 2006 08:58 AM
from the podcaster's-nightmare dept.
eldavojohn writes "In what may be a case of trademark trolling, Apple has issued warnings to makers of other electronic devices containing the word 'pod.' Two companies have been asked to remove the word from their products. Why might this be a mean action by Apple? These two companies don't manufacture MP3 players as one would think would cause confusion. From the article:
Profit Pod is a device that compiles data from vending machines, while TightPod manufactures slip-on covers designed to protect electronic products such as laptops and MP3 players.
Back in the day, if someone was calling an electronic device a 'pod,' I would have thought they were talking about Line 6's Guitar and Bass pods (which I believe have been around for a while). How come they aren't warning Apple about their iPod naming?"
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[+] Apple: Apple Goes After the Term 'Podcast' 419 comments
Udo Schmitz writes "Earlier this year, Apple went up against companies using the word 'pod' in their product names. Now, Apple is going after the term 'podcasting'. Wired has the complete text of Apple's cease-and-desist letter to Podcast Ready." From the article: "Robert Scoble -- whose own company, PodTech, may be at risk in this witch hunt -- has weighed in on the issue by suggesting that the tech community as a whole adopt other terms like "audiocast" and 'videocast' (or alternately, 'audcast' and 'vidcast') to describe this type of content, while other folks feel that fighting Apple and generating a ton of negative press for Cupertino is the best solution. Our take? Apple should be happy that its golden goose is getting so much free publicity, and if it isn't, we know of several companies that probably wouldn't mind if zencast, zunecast, or sansacast became the preferred terminology."
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  • Yeah... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by daveschroeder (516195) * on Thursday August 17 2006, @08:59AM (#15926300)
    ...because "Line 6's Guitar and Bass pods" were even remotely anywhere near the ballpark of being as well, universally, and ubiquitously known as "iPod", either "back in the day" or now.

    ...

    As to "how come they aren't warning Apple about their iPod naming"; sounds like a fallacious point to me, since the answer is pretty clear: they apparently chose not to "warn" anyone. Also, see the previous point above.

    The iPod is practically on the cusp (if not already) of being one of those universal words that is synonymous with "portable music player" - and, in this case, not even because of the same reasons as Kleenex and Xerox, but because nearly all - over 92% [com.com] - of all hard drive-based portable music players actually are iPods.

    So when Apple vigorously protects a mark of a product that is so well known and universally popular and desirable (yes, it is "desirable" to most people - that's why there are so many of them, at the price of entire entry level computer systems, no less), even when individual instances could be deemed questionable by others, is it any surprise?

    Also, both of these products - Profit Pod and TightPod - are new products, released long after the iPod has been established; while it might be questionable that the former is could be mistaken for an iPod, the latter is an accessory for portable music players. And regardless, Apple needs to defend the mark against real or perceived threats, lest an entity in the future claim that Apple wasn't vigorously protecting it from even possible infringement.

    For a mark and product as important as iPod, is it surprising that a company would be very thorough in protecting it? (Does this suck for smaller companies who might not have intended infringement, like Profit Pod? Yep. But if there is a possibility of non-defense in that instance ever being used against Apple as an argument that the mark wasn't properly defended, well, I'm sure you can at least understand the reasoning. Further, the "TightPod" was clearly chosen to play of iPod, unless you ca argue with a straight face that the word "Pod" was just coincidentally included on a protective cover for "portable music players".)

    You know what they say about trademarks: protect them, or lose them [wikipedia.org] - especially in an environment where someone might claim the owner didn't protect it.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      ...Escape Pod?
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        you'll have to call it an escape capsule. Until the next xbox gets tradmarked an xcapsule, then your fukced.
    • Re:Yeah... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by orangesquid (79734) <orangesquid@yaho o . c om> on Thursday August 17 2006, @09:08AM (#15926365) Homepage Journal
      No problem. TightPod can just rename their product the "TightSosumi". ;')

      Also, Line 6 and Apple's iPod are both music-related; Line 6's pod products came first, so, really, Apple should be careful about the word "pod," because maybe the reason Line 6 didn't care is that the emphasis is on the i in iPod. (But, who knows, really.)

      Line 6's stuff is nearly universally known among guitarists and bassists. "People who enjoy music" is simply a bigger market than "people who play guitars." Considering that, I'd say Line 6 has very good recognition (although their 'pod' products aren't as popular now as they once were... I think Zoom's cheaper copycats took care of that).
        • Re:Yeah... (Score:5, Interesting)

          by joe 155 (937621) on Thursday August 17 2006, @09:36AM (#15926577) Journal
          "Also, it doesn't really matter if Line 6's products came first: they clearly didn't do anything to defend the mark in the context of the iPod mark, period, so the point is moot."

          it is an interesting point though, Line 6 didn't defend, so couldn't it be claimed that the "POD" is already in the public domain? in which case what are Apple defending? or does trademark law work in such a way that they can effectively steal one by defending it when another company doesn't?
        • Re:Yeah... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by dolson (634094) on Thursday August 17 2006, @09:36AM (#15926579) Homepage Journal
          Actually, it does matter.

          And trying to protect words that are used in everyday life is ridiculous, and I can't believe anyone in their right mind is arguing for that. First "Windows" and now "Pod" what next, "Mouse"? "Can"? "Pen"?

          Will Nintendo start warning people about using the word "Paper" because they have a successful Paper Mario franchise? This is bullshit of the highest degree, right up there with software patents.

          If I want to start up a brand of frozen vegetables, I shouldn't have to worry if I wanna call them "Peas-In-A-Pod" for fear of legal issues from Apple. Next thing you know, they'll be taking Granny Smith to court because they call them "apples".
          • I agree, although I love my ipod nano, ibook, and G5 tower in an almost fanboyish manner, the takeover of the English language by corporations HAS to be stopped if we are not to enter into an age of Orwellian new speak.

            I think Apple should be ridiculed about this as "invasion of the pod people", ala invasion of the body snatchers.

            If this is about trademark law then it is the law that is wrong not our usage of common English words. Change the law not our heritage of the English language that is thousands o
            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              Windows was a word used by microsoft to name their operating system. It has since become rather a popular operating system, but it is still a trademark! No-one else can use windows as the name of their operating system for very good reason. Its called deception.

              Sure, but I can still call the windows in my house Windows. I could invent and patent a plastic window to install in your stomach to view what you've eaten and call it bodyWindows. People can create products that work WITH MS Windows like WindowBlind

        • so the point is moot
          I accept your apology.
    • Listen, I played bass, I worked at a music store that sold effects pedals. "Pod" meant Line 6's guitar pod. People came in and literally said, "I'll take one pod, please." I'm not kidding you, these things were huge and still are. Go into your local Guitar Center or what ever you have and say, "I'll take one pod, please." You can bet your ass the guy at the counter will pull up a guitar pod and ring it up right there.

      If you want more evidence, read this article [sweetwater.com]:
      By the end of 2002, the Line 6 people had proven themselves by designing what were unquestionably (to me, in any case) the best amp and effects models available, including the remarkable Vetta amplifiers and the best selling POD modules.
      It's very popular among artists, to quote Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]: "Their products are used and endorsed by artists such as James Hetfield of Metallica, Matthew Bellamy of Muse, Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails, and The Edge of U2."
    • Re:Yeah... (Score:5, Informative)

      by hankwang (413283) * on Thursday August 17 2006, @09:15AM (#15926410) Homepage
      The iPod is practically [...] synonymous with "portable music player"
      Maybe in the US. Here in Netherlands they are commonly called 'mp3-speler' (=mp3 player).
      nearly all - over 92% - of all hard drive-based portable music players actually are iPods.
      Again, maybe in the US. The US is not the whole world. From what I have seen a typical electronics store here devotes some 5 to 10% of the digital audio player shelve space to iPods. For HD-based players is might be a bit more, but nowhere near the majority. It might have to do with the fact that in the first few years, the iTMS would not sell outside the US.

      My mp3 player is an iAudio which I use almost exclusively for Ogg Vorbis files. Maybe Apple should also go after them for using the 'i'?

      • Re:Yeah... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by gnasher719 (869701) on Thursday August 17 2006, @10:18AM (#15926913)
        '' From what I have seen a typical electronics store here devotes some 5 to 10% of the digital audio player shelve space to iPods. ''

        And what percentage of the cupboard space below the display shelves?
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        From what I have seen a typical electronics store here devotes some 5 to 10% of the digital audio player shelve space to iPods.

        That's because there are exactly three different kinds of iPods, while there are umpteen-thousand other random players. The amount of something actually sold doesn't necessarily have any relationship to the amount of display space it has.

    • Re:Yeah... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by st0rmshad0w (412661) on Thursday August 17 2006, @09:31AM (#15926534)
      Further, the "TightPod" was clearly chosen to play of iPod, unless you ca argue with a straight face that the word "Pod" was just coincidentally included on a protective cover for "portable music players".)

      Yeah, because things in the natural world are never enclosed in a protective pod.
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          No, I'm arguing with a straight face that the word "pod" is from both a textbook definition and a marketing perspective, a perfect label for "slip-on covers designed to protect electronic products"
            • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

              Would it be OK if they made cases for things besides mp3 players? Because if you check their site it seems they only make covers for laptops. So I'm thinking the iPod wasn't a consideration in their brand, their focus appears to be laptops.

              Trademarks need to use Scrabble rules. Anything in common usage shouldn't be allowed to be trademarked.
              • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

                The funny thing is that many people here seem to think I'm assuming that Apple doing this is the greatest thing ever. If you'll look at some of the other highly-moderated comments to this story, they note this isn't really an Apple problem, this is a problem of the way US trademark law works: if it can ever possibly be shown you didn't vigorously defend, you can lose a whole broad scope of rights. I agree with you about trademarks and common words. But the fact is that Apple has an extremely profitable, wel
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          And you're stating with a straight face that you can't tell the difference? What, you bought a TightPod, got home, and lost it when it wasn't an Apple iPod?

          What pisses me off, is the name of the freaking product is "iPod", NOT "Pod".

          Pod is a freaking WORD, not a NAME. I can't believe this damned discussion has to exist, shoot the lawyers, shoot em all!!! Take something as brutally simple and obvious as this and spew FUD until it is no longer so.

    • Apple would be in trouble if it ever sells the next-gen iPod as iPodXT.

      Next up would probably be iPodXTLive for DJs. Bring it on.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        Yes, some people who have music players that aren't iPods answer, "Yes," when asked "Do you have an iPod?" because it's universally known and simpler than saying "Yes, well, no, I do have a music player, but it's not an iPod, it's something else. I wanted an iPod, but I guess my parents got suckered into the wrong thing at Walgreens."

        Techy types and most people who read and post to slashdot would consider it ridiculous to call something that's not an iPod an iPod, but yes, it has gotten that universal in so
      • Re:Yeah... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by eln (21727) * on Thursday August 17 2006, @09:18AM (#15926433) Homepage
        That's true that it often happens, and if it does the trademark is lost. This is why companies with very popular products spend so much time and money suing people and embarking on public education campaigns to get people to stop using their name generically.

        All of these companies try to get people to call their product by its full name, including function, such as "Zamboni ice resurfacing machine" rather than just "Zamboni," and encourage people to call competitors' products by the actual product description ("ice resurfacing machine"). These campaigns are rarely successful, but the companies still try.

        After all, genericization (that's probably not a real word) of a product name is really only the first step in commoditization of that product. After all, if you can't use your name to distinguish your product from anyone else's anymore, that product has essentially become a commodity, and that makes the competitive environment much more challenging. After all, when people buy tissues these days, how many are really loyal to the particular brand Kleenex anymore? How many people care if the personal casette player they buy is actually a Sony Walkman? Or that the copier they buy is actually a Xerox? Or the aspirin they buy is really Bayer Aspirin? And so on.
          • Re:Yeah... (Score:5, Insightful)

            by 70Bang (805280) on Thursday August 17 2006, @09:47AM (#15926662)


            If they're going after the use of a word or use of pod, what are they going to do about podcast?

            They're either going to have to remove that word from everyone's vocabulary (that genie has already left the bottle), or everyone will say they are using the fragment pod from podcast, not iPod.

            Apple's not in a good defensive, let alone offensive, position.

              • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)


                If they're going after the use of a word or use of pod, what are they going to do about podcast?

                Nothing. Podcast is just a word in the common language.

                They're either going to have to remove that word from everyone's vocabulary (that genie has already left the bottle), or everyone will say they are using the fragment pod from podcast, not iPod.

                That actually wouldn't be a defense. If they were to sue, what they have to show is that the use of the word "pod" is likely to cause confusion in the eyes of
              • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                Well, iTunes lets you subscribe to "Podcasts" (their word) without an iPod; I don't know if this contradicts your statement or not. If they were opposed to NPR shows being called "Podcasts", they would probably start by calling them something else on the iTunes Music Store.

                  • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                    I'm using iTunes to listen to generic MP3/whatever podcasts which, yes, I can listen to on non-Apple software/hardware. (I only own Apple hardware, but still....) I don't even have to go through the Music Store; there's a menu item called "Subscribe to Podcast" where I type in a web address. Apple could have made a distinction between "podcasts" from the iTMS and, I don't know, "audio stories" from the web. The fact that they call both types "podcasts" suggests an implicit recognition of the term as a g
                  • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                    of course you can - all a so-called 'podcast' is, is an rss feed that links to audio files instead of text files.

                    there are numerous clients that can listen / download podcasts on the net.

                    personally i would LIKE podcasts to be renamed, the whole 'pod' part of the name confuses people to the point that they think that they can ONLY listen / watch (in the case of video podcasting) to these feeds in iTunes.

                    which of course, is a fallacy that apple would like to continue propogating i'm sure.

                    we have podcasts on a
              • Re:Yeah... (Score:4, Insightful)

                by Fordiman (689627) <fordimanNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday August 17 2006, @01:52PM (#15928741) Homepage Journal
                No, Apple didn't invent podcasting. In fact, they didn't even coin the term. It was a concept implemented by Tristan Louis and Dave Winer, originally referred to as 'audioblogging'.

                In fact, at one point, Apple tried to snuff the first podcasting client, 'iPodder'.

                So yeah. Quiet, fanboy. They didn't invent the GUI either.
          • Bayer AG lost the Bayer and the aspirin trademarks in North America when the Treaty of Versailles was signed after WW1. Sterling Drug bought the Bayer and Aspirin trademarks from the US government in 1918 and then lost the US aspirin trademark in 1921 because it had been genericised (Aspirin is still a trademark in Canada). Bayer AG bought the company that owned the North American Bayer tradmark and the Canadian Aspirin trademark in 1994. Bayer, a former member of I.G. Farben is selling insecticide in th
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Apple likes to quote market share of the higher-penetration countries, but their worldwide market share of dedicated music player devices is closer to 25%

        What the hell does this even mean? "dedicated music player devices"? I guess that includes transistor radios, boomboxes, cassette tape players, and turntables? Obviously, if you include all music players ever made in any category, Apple's market share is going to be a lot lower than the numbers they quote. But that hardly matters; they're not competing
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            What!!! That artical is totally worthless. The first half of it contains data from a "Nokia-comissioned study" suggesting that outside the US, more people want combined cellphones and music players. Okay, a little lesson in marketting tactics.
            1. Comission a study, centered around your product market.
            2. Twist wording specifically to elicit a desired response. Even something as trivial as, "Would you like your cellphone to also play music?" would elicit a "yes" from most people, even if, when faced with all the
  • by yagu (721525) * <yayagu@gmail.cDEGASom minus painter> on Thursday August 17 2006, @09:00AM (#15926308) Journal

    Dave. Open the pod bay doors, Hal.

    Hal. I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

    Dave. What's the problem?

    Hal. Apple discovered my ties to IBM and issued a cease and desist order. You are no longer allowed to open the pod bay door.

  • Apple's afraid that the term ipod will become generic (genericided?). Suing random '*pod' named businesses show's they're 'actively defending' their mark.

    Problem is more with trademark law than apple methinks.

    For a mild laugh, check out the tightpod website [tightpod.com] (one of the sued comapnies) - spandex clad notebooks (including tiger skin for the suitably inclined osx user)
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Problem is more with trademark law than apple methinks.

      Bingo. This sounds similar to the story about Google telling media organizations to be cautious about using the words "Google" and "google" now that "google" is in the OED. If you don't at least make an effort to defend, your options on even the most blatant cases get much more difficult.

      • on even the most blatant cases

        Uh, uh - you're thinking logically, try to think like a lawyer for a big company.

        You want court cases where you've successfully defended your mark, so rather than go after a blatant case, you go after small, weak companies who are unlikely to afford a court defense. Bingo, another case won, to be used as proof that you've been vigorously defending your mark should you need to go up against a real competitor.

        Its not exactly what I'd describe as ethical, but as most companies seem to do it, I'd say the solution lies in trademark law reform.
  • by vishbar (862440) on Thursday August 17 2006, @09:02AM (#15926321)
    They've gone half-way, but now it's time to make SURE that the iPod's name will never be infringed upon. The next logical step is to not allow others to use any name beginning with the letter "i", ESPECIALLY a lower-case "i". Good for Apple, glad to see they're supporting free speech! Because I know that if I see a piece of technology with the word "pod" in it, it immediately becomes indistiguishable from an MP3 player.
  • I Did Some Research (Score:4, Informative)

    by eldavojohn (898314) * <my/.username@@@gmail.com> on Thursday August 17 2006, @09:02AM (#15926322) Homepage Journal
    Hey, I did a bit of research on Line 6. According to Wikipedia [wikipedia.org], the iPod debuted on October 23, 2001 (or at least was unveiled).

    Thanks to the internet archive, there is evidence of Line 6 having fully developed pods for sale during 2000 [archive.org] and 1999 [archive.org].

    I mentioned this in the summary because I used to play bass pretty regularly and I recall around 2002 when all of the sudden these devices were the de facto standard for high quality multi-effects. Everyone came into the store I worked at asking for "pods." I recall when iPod came out that I was figuring there might be fall out but it never came. They're both associated with playing music but with completely different markets. I only wonder what logic Apple is using to sue these companies using the term Pods.

    Afterall, there's a company called Pods that owns www.pods.com that rents pods for people to move their stuff in and that was established in 1998. I'm sure they've trademarked 'pod.' It's so funny how Apple is sending to cease and desist letters to companies when they should send themselves one. What a crazy double standard.
    • I only wonder what logic Apple is using to sue these companies using the term Pods.

      "You didn't sue us to defend your trademark against our use, so you've already lost it; now we're suing you to defend our trademark against your use"?

      "Or maybe we can Beatle out a deal?"
  • by hey! (33014) on Thursday August 17 2006, @09:03AM (#15926329) Homepage Journal
    When you were small, Apple Records could put the squeeze on you for being "Apple Computer". But when you get big, you get to do to unto others as once you hoped would not be done unto you.
  • Obvious answer (Score:5, Informative)

    by mhazen (144368) * on Thursday August 17 2006, @09:06AM (#15926349) Homepage

    How come they aren't warning Apple about their iPod naming?



    Because unlike Apple, they don't have a history of being overly litigious. Apple has sued or threatened to everyone from their own customers, to Google.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Because unlike Apple, they don't have a history of being overly litigious. Apple has sued or threatened to everyone from their own customers, to Google.
      That, in my opinion, is what makes Apple far more evil than Microsoft. Microsoft, at least, loves its users and developers.

      (Okay, so Microsoft products crash from time to time. Let's call it tough love.)
  • Trademark dilution (Score:5, Informative)

    by russotto (537200) on Thursday August 17 2006, @09:09AM (#15926375) Journal
    The problem is an absolutely stupid and misguided part of US trademark law called the Federal Anti-Dilution Act. This allows owners of famous marks to go after users of similar marks in any field, even fields where there would be no confusion. There's no doubt that "iPod" is a famous mark. It's the trademark winner-take-all act.

    Though to be fair, Apple might have a case against a maker of MP3 player sleeves even without anti-dilution.
  • by GoatMonkey2112 (875417) on Thursday August 17 2006, @09:12AM (#15926390)
    ...for putting peas in a pod.
  • by Shannon Love (705240) on Thursday August 17 2006, @09:32AM (#15926543) Homepage
    The sad truth is that unless a trademark holder defends their trademark to a near insane degree courts in the last 30 years have shown a hair trigger willingness to rule that the trademark has moved into the public domain. The courts don't just take into evidence the infringement cases that a holder won but all the cases the holder filed. The courts consider the mere filing of the suit as evidence of defense of the trademark regardless of the merits of the case. Accused infringers will defend themselves by pointing out all possible cases of infringement in which the holder did not sue. As a result the trademark holder files a blizzard of suits, many if not most without strong merit, merely to demonstrated to the courts that they vigorously defend their trademark.

    This is definitely a case of "don't blame the player, blame the game."
  • Cupertino, CA -- In an unusual move, Apple Computer, Inc., makers of the ubiquitous iPod, has filed civil litigation against an orca. The company has taken advantage of a loophole in the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA) which allows organizations to sue members of other species in order to dispute alleged trademark abuses. "At issue in this case is an infringement on the use of the word 'Pod'," said a spokesperson for Apple. These killer whales have taken to referring to themselves as a "Pod", and we believe that their doing so dilutes the value of the word." When asked about the lawsuit, Ruffles, an Orca who claims to be a leader of "J-Pod", only replied "Grrrrrrrrrhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu".
  • by grapeape (137008) <mpope7@NOsPAm.kc.rr.com> on Thursday August 17 2006, @10:56AM (#15927182) Homepage
    Portable On Demand Storage (pods.com) has been around since 1998
    Line 6 has been selling the pod since 1996
    Personal Open Directory since the early 90's

    Ipod since 2001

    If I was Apple i'd be real careful with this strategy.
  • Pod people (Score:3, Funny)

    by Animats (122034) on Thursday August 17 2006, @12:33PM (#15927937) Homepage

    Just keep referring to those dweebs with wires hanging out of their ears as "pod people". Laugh at them behind their back. They can't hear you. They can't even hear the bus that's about to run them over. Don't they look stupid? Too cool for school, too dumb for the real world.

    Live by the hype, die by the hype