FBI Foils Attack by Monitoring Chat Rooms 437
An anonymous reader writes "A planned terrorist attack on New York City was reportedly foiled by FBI agents who monitored chat rooms frequented by extremists. Lebanese authorities captured an Al Qaeda member who confessed to the plot, and stated that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi had pledged financial and other support for the operation. Although the planning for the operation was not far along, according to U.S. officials, they had already been monitoring the plot for a year." From the article: "A government official with knowledge of the investigation said the alleged plot did focus on New York's transport system, but did not target the Holland Tunnel. New York senator Charles Schumer said: 'This is one instance where intelligence was on top of its game and discovered the plot when it was just in the talking phase.' The Holland Tunnel is protected not just by bedrock, but also by concrete and cast-iron steel. One counter-terrorism source told the Daily News it was doubtful a plot to blow it up would be feasible, saying huge amounts of explosives and a detailed knowledge of blast effect would be necessary."
Where? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Where? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Where? (Score:4, Interesting)
But please note that as the elections of 2006 get closer --- we are being bombarded with more and more of these "attempted attacks" - just like that one in Liberty City section of Miami (you know, the one where those street punks didn't even have enough money for busfare to get to North Miami...).
Re:Where? (Score:5, Informative)
Similar to the Lodi case, where some poor schmuck was railroaded by the FBI. If he had been left alone, he'd never have done anything, but the FBI informant basically cajoled and incited him. Even then it was never proven that he had attended any terrorist camps. The court prevented a former FBI agent from testifying in his behalf.
These "high profile" cases the FBI is coming up with are pretty disgraceful. All they are uncovering are gullible people that can be convinced to do or say stupid things by a paid informant. If the FBI has uncovered any serious threats, hopefully they're using the info to work up the chain of command (and we're not hearing about them, of course) to actually disrupt terrorist networks.
But what we're seeing so far is the FBI setting up some clowns to take a fall and provide publicity.
Re:Where? (Score:3)
This is true. This was not a "terrorist plot", it was a couple of hotheads blowing air about something they knew nothing about. It will get blown out of all proportion and people will say "look what we are doing to fight terrorism"... if everytime someone was blowing air on
Re:Where? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr116.html [usip.org]
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Where? (Score:2)
Re:Where? (Score:5, Interesting)
So you really need like 20 or 30 of them, and a wide range of class C IP's that aren't swip'ed to you.
But yeah, quite easy to do. We even had one watching Yahoo rooms with a skinny text / Linux client for Y! chats, when the user rooms still existed.
After a few months it was really obvious that trying to monitor rooms to anticpate hassles caused more hassles than we were preventing.
But for something like the FBI would use it for, I guess its worth the hassles.
Really and honestly, I'm glad they do it. I only bitch when they cross the line of what I would consider to be a reasonable expectation of privacy. Eavesdropping on an open chat is much different than broad logging and analysis of bank transactions, phone conversations, etc.
I think (lately) anyway, they're realizing the latter is causing more hassles than it prevents.
I was thinking 'now this was obviously staged' when reading TFA, but then I thought about how stupid the plot uncovered was
So - good catch
Re:Where? (Score:2)
Re:Where? (Score:2)
Re:Where? (Score:5, Funny)
*s4dd4m has left the game*
george: PWN3D!
rlijunopeece: o rly george were stil gonna pwn u again
o54m4: ya how?
rlijunopeece: blow up ur tunnel n flood u like n00b orleans
054m4: d00d ur plan sux nycs above sea level
abdul: up urs n00b
*kimjongillin* has joined the game kimjongillin: NUKES! I GOT NUKES!
amacannapronounceit: d00d gimme some plz! benn workin on em 4 so long got so much cash just gimme one plz plz plz?
kimjongillin: ok ok d00d lemme test em 1st
*flowersbyirene* has joined the game
flowersbyirene: d00d i can help u get nukes frm kimmy just paypal me ill set it up
ackbar: IT'S A TRAP!
Re:Where? (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:Where? (Score:2)
Re:Where? (Score:3, Funny)
nope, #0 (Score:3, Funny)
Bash (Score:5, Funny)
Spying on you is good m'kay (Score:4, Insightful)
Shit, if only they had WMDs and lived in one place, maybe we would just take over the country or something.
FUD.
More evidence of FUD from the article itself:
"There was nothing imminent, but it was being monitored for a long period of time," he said. "This is ongoing, that's why I've said nothing about it until now. It would have been better if this had not been disclosed."
A government official with knowledge of the investigation said the alleged plot did focus on New York's transport system, but did not target the Holland Tunnel.
New York senator Charles Schumer said: "This is one instance where intelligence was on top of its game and discovered the plot when it was just in the talking phase."
The Holland Tunnel is protected not just by bedrock, but also by concrete and cast-iron steel.
Who makes this shit up?
They were NOT going to attack the Holland Tunnel, but BTW, it is protected by bedrock, concrete, and cast-iron steel?
More confidence in their ignorance:
One counter-terrorism source told the Daily News it was doubtful a plot to blow it up would be feasible...
But the guy fessed up over a month ago without even being tortured! Now that is real progress!
I feel safer, don't you?
Re:Spying on you is good m'kay (Score:2)
I feel safer knowing that the CIA is doing it's job. Wait a minute here - the FBI has ABSOLUTELY no business monitoring chat rooms on the Internet, that is totally outside of its jurisdiction.
Re:Spying on you is good m'kay (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Spying on you is good m'kay (Score:2, Insightful)
Says who? If they were public chat rooms on a public network(i.e. Freenode), I don't see any reason why the FBI shouldn't be allowed to monitor the chat rooms. Now if it was a private server, and they brute-forced passwords or anything like that, now that would be different...
Re:Spying on you is good m'kay (Score:5, Funny)
I'd feel safer if you were in Guantanamo.
Wait, it gets better... (Score:4, Insightful)
Lebanese authorities captured an Al Qaeda member who confessed to the plot, and stated that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi had pledged financial and other support for the operation.
When the only source of information is an alleged confession of an unknown person in the custody of a government that uses torture, you should be very skeptical. Countries like Pakistan are famous for trotting out suspects and victories in the "War Against Terror" whenever they are required for public consumption. In most cases, these suspects are not available for independent interrogation, and there is mysteriously no other evidence available.
Forgive me for the tinfoil hat, but after the last great victory in the War Against Terror which we were lead to believe targeted the Sears Tower, but subsequently turned out to be a bunch of crazy homeless people, I've started wearing said hat with pride.
How many months 'till th elections? (Score:2)
And this "plot" was to hit the Holland Tunnel and, somehow, "flood" land that is ABOVE the water line. That's almost as funny as the last "terrorists" asking "al Queda" for boots and uniforms.
This is nothing more than a drive to crank up the fear among the centrist voters
Re:Spying on you is good m'kay (Score:2, Insightful)
Next you'll be saying that isn't it peculiar that this Bush fellow went after Iraq for WMDs while some nutbag in North Korea keeps lobbing WMDs at us and Bush keeps ignoring him!!!!!
With that kind of logic, I'll have to start actually thinking again --- and that just makes my poor widdle head hurt.....
Re:Spying on you is good m'kay (Score:5, Insightful)
I can just imagine this guy's response if the 9/11 hijackers had been captured BEFORE pulling off the attack:
"So, you want to convince intelligent people like those on slashdot that the FBI stopped people from around the world possibly funded by a CIA agent from hijacking airliners with box cutters?
FUD
I feel safer, don't you?"
Re:Spying on you is good m'kay (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably I would have reacted like most everybody else.
No reaction.
I don't believe it would have been much of a headline before 9/11/01. The people would have been dismissed as lunatics that could have never of pulled this thing off. However, after that date, something as ridiculous as this makes headlines, and the collective conscious here on slashdot is that this was silly and FUD just like my response.
News does not typically get made when things are OK or a potential threat is avoided. Nobody stands on the side of the Mississippi river and says, "Well, its not flooding, its just going North to South as usual". No headline says, "A 300 car pileup was avoided because John Doe went to the state inspection station today and got new brake pads!"
Action by all animals regarding safety is directly proportional to the degree of perceived danger. Cats have no problem climbing on furniture or a few feat off of the ground. Get them stuck high up in a tree, and the fire department comes out. One time when I was working construction, I walked about 200 feet around a 90 degree corner on 8" wide cinder blocks from 2.5 stories up, and I had to be very objective about it and convince myself that 8" was more than sufficient to walk a straight line. If I had to do the same thing one foot off of the ground, I wouldn't of cared.
Humans have this revenge/fear complex of other humans that is pretty much over 99% completely irrational.
Off the top of your head, tell me how many people died on 9/11/01 in the attacks. Now, off the top of your head, tell me how many people died in hurricane Katrina? Now, how about the number in the 2004 tsunami? What about annually due to the flu? Car accidents?
In general, humans are irrational. I would like to believe that slashdotters and others that have scientific thought are a little more on the rational side of things and can look at the raw data and let that speak vs their perception of the data. What I'm getting at, is that the terrorists on 9/11/01 were irrational, and the thing was like a big car accident, and the thing was not preventable then and another thing like it is not preventable now, and if it were, it would be as evident as the avoided 300 car pileup from a person getting their brakes repaired. Negatives cannot be proven, and they just are not that interesting.
The US government uses FUD all the time to maintain their perception of power. Parents (more uneducated ones) do this with their kids as well.
Being a scientist and trying to understand the world in rational terms, I get annoyed when FUD is used to deceive people. I don't see that as progress, but entirely the opposite.
If I were really concerned about my safety, I would not drive to work or anywhere after that. That is the most likely cause of death for a young, healthy person. But people drive to work every day, without fear, but many of the same people fear terrorists, and there is no basis for this from a rational point of view.
Re:Spying on you is good m'kay (Score:3, Insightful)
What you say? The 9/11 highjackers didn't need to be caught. They could have been thrarted by a simple locked cockpit door like they have been doing in Israel since the 1980's.
A $20 dollar locking device and common sense could have saved thousands of lives and billions of dollars, but yet we have to keep on harping about security and giving over reaching powers to the police and government.
If not the
Thank god! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Thank god! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Thank god! (Score:2)
You can do that in just about every country in the world.
to be expected (Score:2, Interesting)
First post?
Laws? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmm...yeah.. that's what I thought.
Re:Laws? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Laws? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Laws? (Score:2)
Quite possibly, they monitor (or try to monitor) everything. This time, the "Chat Room Monitoring Unit" (nickname charm4u) got lucky... Next month it may be the phone-wiretapping folks.
Read all about it (Score:5, Funny)
Not to worry, the New York Times will be publishing a how-to guide next week complete with tunnel schematics and rates of expansion for various explosives.
Re:Read all about it (Score:3, Insightful)
cause y'know, republishing public data is totally treasonous.
Re:Read all about it (Score:2)
At the same time, you can compile non-secret facts in such a way that the compilation itself can be classified as secret.
The only examples I can think of off the top of my head were back in the day, some guy compiled a bunch of public facts about nucleur weapons and tried to submit a paper about how you'd make one. The gov't did their damnest to classify & suppress it. More recently, that kid who wrote a masters thesis mapping out all the buried fiber
Re:Free education (Score:2, Insightful)
Dude, the Belgian government didn't realize Hitler was there, so it's not that hard to imagine.
Re:Free education (Score:2)
god, like i needed more evidence that powerline is full of crap.
Re:Read all about it, and buy from our advertisers (Score:2)
And check out their Classifieds for local suppliers.
Re:Read all about it (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Blame the press.
2. Demand bloodlust.
3. Ask for more government protection.
And all the while it does nothing to prevent terrorism and just gives the government more power over its citizens. That's how dictatorships start, people don't mind giving the government a little more power. And as time goes on more and more powers are given away. Sure this administration and the next may use that power for good but down the road we might elect some maniac(if elections are even in place by then) who will abuse that power. The Romans didn't have a problem with Augustus but they sure did have a problem with Caligula.
Approval ratings. (Score:2)
Probably, but there is another side to this coin that isn't quite so funny. I once watched an interview with a retired KGB commander. The reporter asked him what he thought were the three best spies ever. The Russian grinned and replied: "Three people you have never heard of". The reporter didn't ask him to explain so I'm guessing that it wasn't until aft
Where's the overt act? (Score:5, Insightful)
This sounds more like some guys mouthing off rather than a real threat. The real players do not discuss their plans in chat rooms. It's like the group from Miami that was "trying to blow up the John Hancock Building". Turns out they're a bunch of small-time crooks and losers who ran into an FBI agent while blithering.
Al-queda used to have some competent people, and they might eventually get their act together for another big act of terrorism, but what we're seeing now are wannabee terrorists.
Re:Where's the overt act? (Score:4, Insightful)
No shit. If blather in a chatroom qualifies as a threat, what do the US military contigency plans qualify as? Evidence that the US military is poised to invade Canada?
Gather enough information and apply your imagination to it, and you can find evidence of anything anywhere. Cut the words out of a lexicon and have a paranoid lunatic rearrange them and it's not surprising if you get a sinister message. That doesnt mean we'll be served particularly well by employing the asylum as threat assessors.
But hey, nobody ever got fired for foiling an imaginary threat.
Re:Where's the overt act? (Score:2)
Yes, they can. (Score:2)
Yes, they can.
But, 99.9% of the time, they don't. That's because they're "wannabe's", not real terrorists.
All it takes to be a terrorist is a rifle and a political objective. Both of which are easily acquired in the US. If you cannot start there, then you aren't even a "wannabe". You're a "poser". Here's the breakdown:
"Poser" - all talk, no action. No threat - but they make good newsprint.
"Wannabe" - Lots of talk and has the tools needed. Lacks the guts / drive /
Well paint me cynical (Score:3, Insightful)
Especially since the last announcement by the administration which turned out to not be AQ related, had no real plan or ability to carry it out.
Considering they found the guys on IRC its more likely they found a shower of idiots then actual terrorists.
honestly... (Score:5, Funny)
Have you ever actually tried driving on them?
Re:honestly... (Score:3, Funny)
Not to mention that they'd do it for less that it'd cost to pay the Union guys.
Wanted: Terrorists with expertise in explosives & road demolition work. Pay will be half of the prevailing union wages. Benefits include: A first class plane ticket to/from your country of origin, free housing in a former prison converted to a 3-star hotel, and round the clock VIP police escort.
Re:honestly... (Score:2)
In a chat room. Sure... (Score:2, Insightful)
Trust (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Trust (Score:2)
Re:Trust (Score:2)
Seems to be that way with a lot of these captured 'terrorists' - the poster child is Jose Padilla, the one they grabbed getting off a plane at O'Hare a couple of years back and crowed about what a danger he was - dirty nukes, all kinds of terrible carnage he was going to wreck. The guy couldn't even hold down a job at taco bell, but they kept him locked up without access to counsel for years claiming because he w
Re:Trust (Score:2)
When is someone a danger? (Score:5, Insightful)
There was another really goofy guy - Richard Reid. You may remember him from exciting life moments as "I have to take my my shoes off in the airport?!"
I mean he tried to light his shoe on fire on a plane with a lighter. Yet even that bumbling moron managed to aquire explosives and get them on a plane. If he managed, why not the Florida guys eventually as well? Why should we not take someone seriously when they claim they want to blow up something no matter how inept they seem? Would you leave them wandering without supervision until they did manage to succeed?
Not on the street (Score:3, Insightful)
As for the "Wal-Mart" guns, sure you can get a few guns but those are little good if you're looking to take out a building or a large number of people. Wal-Mart doesn't sell dynamite you know. It's substiantally harder to get real explosives, and that is what they were asking after.
Now I don't know about you but at the point where a cult starts asking after high explosives I'd say that
Bridges and Tunnels (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe the terrorists just need toAsk a Navy SEAL [theonion.com]:
Dear Navy SEAL,
I am a happily married man with a warm and loving wife who is also my best friend. We've been together for 17 years and couldn't be happier. But lately she says she wants separate beds. I'm reeling! We're barely in our 40s, and in my mind separate sleeping is for seniors. Am I making too much of this? Help!
--Anxious In Andersonville
Dear Anxious,
Destroying a bridge might look easy in the movies, but remember: They're designed to withstand the immense shear-forces of wind and weather. Deploying an underwater M-32 satchel charge at the base of each load-bearing pylon looks like the answer, but it might not even shake a modern riveted steel highway or railroad bridge. Without delving into the complex language of the guerrilla combat engineer, the best advice I can give you is to forgo subtlety in favor of brute force: Put two satchel charges at each X-shaped trestle buck, and this should rob the bridge of any reinforcing strength and cause it to buckle nicely.
pwning noobs (Score:2)
It's about economic damage... (Score:3, Insightful)
Blowing up a tunnel is hard work (Score:5, Informative)
The difference... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Blowing up a tunnel is hard work (Score:3, Funny)
All that would happen (God forbid) if anyone tried to blow up a tunnel would be to cripple the traffic in Manhattan (which pretty bad as is) but it would take a lot of explosives to actually destroy a tunnel from within if it's a tube.
Screw the tunnel - just take out the roadbed. Let's see all those tards in H2s try and negotiate a 2 foot crater - comedy gold!
Re:Blowing up a tunnel is hard work (Score:3, Insightful)
It doesn't seem to be a matter of obtaining enough explosives to make such a blast that would be problematic, McVeigh demonstrated what home chemistry is capable of and terrorists have demonstrated proficiency with other various explo
How it went down (Score:3, Funny)
<Lailaha> Dudez! WTF is that abu-ass-grab torture sh!tz?
<Iqbal> Totally.
<Lailaha> We should do something about it.
<Iqbal> Yeah, like blow something up
<Lailaha> No wayz, that's so 911.
<Iqbal> Ok, get this - we flood the new york subway!
<Lailaha> My uncle's 3rd wife's brother's couzin is zawqari's best bud, he could hook us up!
<Iqbal> Isn't he dead?
<Lailaha> Nah, that's just the cover story. He's hiding out with 20 virgins, practicing for the big day!
<Iqbal> That's sooo cool, I wish I had 20 virgins.
<Lailaha> Yah, me twoz
<Iqbal> Hey, wtf, someone is banging on my door.
<Iqbal> BRB
<Lailaha> ?? u there ??
<Lailaha> I gotz school, culaterz
Web-surfing at Work (Score:2)
I'll bet extremists use eBay too. Where else can you buy everything you need for anything you want? So can I tell my boss the next time I'm watching my auction of Fancy Teapot Doilies that I'm actually secretly fighting terrorism?
Paranoia alert (Score:5, Funny)
Whenever I hear something like this, I immediately think "What are they trying to distract me from now?"
Did Bush's daughters invade Namibia or something?
Re:Paranoia alert (Score:3, Insightful)
What the hell is cast-iron steel? (Score:4, Insightful)
Cast iron and steel are two different things. I'm assuming they mean steel. Cast iron is kind of brittle.
Re:What the hell is cast-iron steel? (Score:2)
In general, they get the overal "item" of news correct, but be careful about believing specifics in news stories...
And you thought scambaiting was fun - try this! (Score:2)
From the blurb:
Lebanese authorities captured an Al Qaeda member who confessed to the plot, and stated that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi had pledged financial and other support for the operation.
One counter-terrorism source told the Daily News it was doubtful a plot to blow it up would be feasible, saying huge amounts of explosives and a detailed knowledge of blast effect would be necessary.
Ok, so all I have to do is hang out in chatrooms until I find some Al Qaeda guy and tell him some off-the-wall plan f
Extremists? (Score:2, Interesting)
Extremists? Wow. I sure am glad they caught those extremists. Just one quick question: what sort of extremists are we talking about here? Extremist Buddhists? Confucianists? Taoists? Shintoists? Zoroastrians? Hellenic Polytheists? Liberals? Classical Liberals? Neoliberals? Libertarians? Inquiring minds want to know...
P.S. I am always intrigued by the sort of information tha
US/CAN relations. . . (Score:5, Interesting)
The first of many (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The first of many (Score:3, Insightful)
That list is a joke, did you read it?
The first two entries are "hijack airplane and fly into buildings" plots. As if anyone would fall for that again. I'm willing to bet those "plots" were pre-911 and long abandoned by the time they were "thwarted."
The third entry - which is the only one we have any independent reporting of beyond the administr
I Just Saved America from a Terrist Attack! (Score:2)
confession or "confession" (Score:3, Insightful)
So was this a true confession or was this a "confession" when the person was being tortured? Now we all know Lebanon would never torture anyone! You can torture anyone to say anything, including confessing that your mother is commie and a fat capitalist in the same sentence and that you are your own grandfather. After all, why spend time trying to prove someone would actually go though with the plot when you can just torture them?
Heck, you can just take random people off the streets and torture them into confessing they are Al Qaeda sleepers.
Idiots (Score:2)
Too much information (Score:2)
I dont get why you tell the public how you uncovered the master plan when they are part of the public. I dont care if its only part of the information, it still tips them off.
At least the news didnt say the FBI is watching #osama tomarow to record a conversation with the leaders of what ever.
This happens all the time (Score:2)
I call bullshit! (Score:2, Insightful)
What's the issue? (Score:3, Insightful)
Leaks! (Score:3, Insightful)
Why does the NY Times^D^D^D^D^D^D^D^D FBI hate America? Why?
Well, color me relieved (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally, I'd feel safer had we gotten the smart ones.
Re:Here's the log (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Wow I'm impressed... (Score:2)
Re:Trend of Bush admin secrecy must be stopped! (Score:2)
Re:Trend of Bush admin secrecy must be stopped! (Score:2)
lameinnocentguy: Dude, the Holland tunnel sucks.
B1GGu|\|G-ma|\|: [deleted in order to protect national security]
anotherlameinnocentguy: Yeah, the traffic always is screwed up there.
T3rr0r15t: [deleted in order to protect national security]
B1GGu|\|G-ma|\|: [deleted in order to protect national security]
lameinnocentguy: That's why I always use the trains when I can.
T3rr0r15t: [deleted in order to protect national security]
B1GGu|\|G-ma|\|: [deleted in o
Re:Helping extremists? (Score:2)
I'm on the other side. There are things that need to be secret because it's the only way to protect our country. Even the anti-Bush crowd should be protected, whether they like it or not.
Re:Helping extremists? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Helping extremists? (Score:3, Insightful)
The NYT published the article knowing it would damage national security, but hey, they made a buck! As long as a major corporation makes money, I guess it's OK?
Of course, at the rate that the cre
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:2)
Re:Blast + Gravity = No more Holland Tunnel (Score:5, Informative)
Now for the real issue: Do you have any idea how hard it is to dig tunnels through rock with explosives? You dig holes into the rock. You put explosives into the holes. You carefully tamp each of the charges. You set off the explosives in their neat little holes in the rock. And what do you get?
A few feet. That's all.
Yeah, the terrorists would set off a bigger explosion. But it wouldn't be tamped - the force of the blast would escape both directions along the tunnel. For "gravity" to work for you, you'd first have to crack the rock enough that it's no longer structural. (It's not just the concrete and steel that holds all that rock up. The rock holds itself up.)
And if a tamped explosion only breaks a few feet of rock, a bigger but untamped one isn't going to do much more...
Re:Blast + Gravity = No more Holland Tunnel (Score:2, Interesting)
Now, for the explosion in a tunnel. I understand how they make tunnels. Those are called controlled blasts. They do a little at a time for a reason. It's called, "Creating something not destroying something." Someone who wanted to destroy the tunnell would only have to create a huge explosion that couldn't vent out the tunnel's two ends. By doing so, force from the blast would damage rock. That is when Gravity would come into effect.
You can't compare cont
Re:Blast + Gravity = No more Holland Tunnel (Score:3, Interesting)
Explosives are used to create tunnels (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Blast + Gravity = No more Holland Tunnel (Score:3, Interesting)
A lot more than you think - the OKC building wasn't lined with steel sections that are probably half a foot thick, held in compression by the surrounding rock. That's not to say that an explosion in the tunnel would be a minor event - the blast itself would kill or injure a lot of people in the tunnel, plus critical systems like ventilation and pum
Damaged? (Score:2)
What is your definition of damaged [indystar.com]?
I'd call a third of the building just plain gone with the rest being totally uninhabitable a little more than just damaged. Remember they had to get people off the upper floors using ladders which meant not even a stairway survived, as a lot of the third of the building that vanished went through the rest of the building.
That said I have to wonder if the tunnel is