Pirate Party Comes to the U.S. 543
Spy der Mann writes "Wired news has published an interview with the Pirate Party of the U.S., which was formed a week after the raid on Pirate Bay. The group patterns itself after Piratpartiet, the Swedish political party associated with The Pirate Bay, and says it wants to reform intellectual property and privacy laws."
I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Funny)
Arrrghhh.....Our first pirate party act, will be to capture that scurrvy ridden rodent, and have him walk the plank....yarrr....
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Funny)
"Everytime Mickey gets close to falling into PD congress will suddenly find it in their interest to extend copyright..."
Arrrghhh.....Our first pirate party act, will be to capture that scurrvy ridden rodent, and have him walk the plank....yarrr....
Not if the Ninja party has anything to say about it.
I've heard Disney just signed Masaaki Hatsumi http://www.geocities.com/mrdsouza/hatsumi.html [geocities.com] as their first line of
defense..
*ducks*
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:4, Funny)
There's also ninjas. They can flip out and kill a whole boatload.
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Insightful)
I know it feels good to support the Pirate Bay or something, but this will amount to a hill of beans - or The Pirate Party's servers being raided periodically.
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Insightful)
And, I'm pretty sure the Piracy Party is not supposed to be a 100% serious organization.
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:4, Insightful)
What makes you think the EFF isn't seen in this light anyways? More importantly, what makes you think it's relevant to many people in the political establishment if they are pirates or piracy sympathizers? I was under the impression that politics focused on either providing what the people want or trying to push people into issues so they'd decide based on them. The "pro-public domain" camp fits the former (clearly this new party is about issues that voters care about). The only real issue is that it's hard to compare "Iraq War" and "Public Domain" as talking points, so it's hard to use it to drive votes. To that end, I'm not sure it's possible to make the political establishment really care at all until these "pirates" go about looting ships.
Ie, I really don't see this changing much of anything.
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Insightful)
What on earth makes you think they should give a fuck? If you stand around politely waiting for permission from the "political establishment", you'll never get anywhere.
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Funny)
However, it is scientific fact that global warming is due to a lack of pirates, so with the advent of a pirate party global warming will reverse itself!
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's in there. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's in there. (Score:4, Funny)
So every movie Rob Schneider has ever made should be public domain the moment it's released. But that would mean Rob Schneider movies would never show a profit... and no more of them would never be made...
Let's get this amendment approved ASAP!
Re:It's in there. (Score:4, Interesting)
Why bother with all this math? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hint 2: it doesn't take 100+ years to realize a profit on your intellectual endeavor, if that's your taste. Especially nowadays. As a general rule, your book/record/film is going to profit in its first five years of life or never. If anything, terms should be getting shorter as distribution & marketing technologies continue to improve.
Re:Why bother with all this math? (Score:3, Insightful)
I think the biggest problem is the fact that
Re:Why bother with all this math? (Score:5, Insightful)
It would also be good to go back to having to explicitly register copyrights with the Library of Congress, and to require that the LOC gets a free, non-DRM-encumbered copy in the preferred format for making modifications to it. Considering that the Public Domain is designed to foster modification, it only makes sense that a "compiled work" such as a software binary or lossy-compressed digital video wouldn't be useful, and therefore shouldn't be sufficient to use as collateral to earn copyright protection.
Census Bureau anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)
The US Census Bureau exists to implement the constitutional requirement for an enumeration. A hard limit of half a life expectancy would be easy to implement based on data that the Census Bureau and similar government agencies already publish. But then pegging the copyright term to the progress of medical arts it might make the copyright industry support the drug industry.
Re:It's in there. (Score:5, Interesting)
But wait ... there's more (Score:5, Interesting)
"...when, as in this case, Congress has not altered the traditional contours of copyright protection, further First Amendment scrutiny is unnecessary."
By implication, this means laws that do alter the "contours" can be challenged constitutionally. I'm thinking DMCA, esp. anticircumvention... which goes beyond the prohibition of copying and denies mere access to works, as pointed out in a good chapter of a very mediocre book: Protecting Ideas by David L. Hudson.
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Insightful)
At first, I thought that the views of the Pirate Party were even a bit too extreme, but after reading a bit deeper, it seems that I agree with them on almost everything - reward the author for a reasonable amount of time, and don't patent the third world into a slow, painful death.
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:3, Interesting)
*I don't subscribe to this belief, but many do. Perception is reality.
Approval Voting (Score:4, Informative)
Basically, the idea is that you may vote for as many of the candidates as you approve of.
For instance, a good chunk of people enjoy many of the ideas that the Libertarian party believes in. This same chunk of people often has to make a choice between voting for a democrat or a republican, because everyone knows third parties stand no chance here.
Now, under the Approval voting system, you could vote for both the Libertarian candidate and the party you would have ended up voting for had you no choice.
Now, I do not believe that the Libertarian party would win. What I do believe is that they would receive a much larger number of votes, and many of the idea would be much harder for the main two parties to ignore.
The same, of course, would happen to the Pirate Party. They are not going to win, let's face it. But, if they were to receive a vote from 15-30% of the population (a reasonable goal), the major parties could not ignore that.
What makes this system so great, however, is the incredible ease of implementation. It isn't complicated for voters to understand, and ballots could already support multiple votes.
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:3, Informative)
Dastar v. 20 Cent Fox (Score:5, Informative)
The original Mickey Mouse film trilogy was Plane Crazy, Gallopin' Gaucho, and Steamboat Willie. Any traits of the character that appeared in the original trilogy would pass into PD along with the films.
O rly? The Supreme Court ruled the other way in Dastar Corp. v. Twentieth Century Fox Film Corp. [wikipedia.org], where Justice Scalia wrote that a trademark can't be hacked to extend copyright.
And this is why they will never succeed... (Score:5, Insightful)
Disney and all the rest of the those with vested interestes in intellectual property have more money than anyone could possibly counter with enough votes to make a difference.
It's all about the cash. Votes are just something to make you feel like you have a representative government.
Steve
Re:And this is why they will never succeed... (Score:5, Insightful)
Just a quick reality check to counter this sort of complete cyncism -- Crappy popular culture is pretty much the only thing of value that the US exports nowdays. The entertainment business is a critical national industry. So, of course politicians naturally support it.
Not to mention Hollywood being the largest industry in California, the most populous state. I can tell you that here in CA politicans aren't pro-*AA because of the money, but simply because that's what the jobs and economy is based on.
Entertainment is pretty much the perfect political storm -- you've got unions, you've got social liberals, you've got big business, you've got finance, you've got cultural imperalists, and a host of other groups supporting them. It's perfectly natural they have a ton of political power -- they don't *need* to bribe people.
There needs to be opposition to educate people and prevent the draconian types of proposals that always seem to be floating around in congressional committees. But ultimately is the US political establishment going to do anything to undermine entertainment? Never. What's good for Hollywood is good for America.
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Insightful)
Piracy is robbery committed at sea. Copyright infringement is
See, one involves killing and stealing. The other involves copyright infringement.
One has the effect of immediate and tangible harm to the victim. The other has the effect of infringing on someone's copyrights.
They're both crimes, but they're different kinds of crimes.
If someone tries to rob you at sea, and you fight back and kill them, you're probably justified. If someone is tries to infringe on your copyrights, and you kill them, you're probably a psychopath.
Re:I'll have to look into a donation... (Score:5, Interesting)
hey should rename themselves "The Entertainment Wants To Be Free Party,"
Pirate Party rolls off the tongue - your name sucks. In today's media saturated world, that's important. I for one would love to be the first Pirate President.
Or maybe the "Ugly Party"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Or maybe the "Ugly Party"? (Score:5, Funny)
Actually... (Score:5, Interesting)
After seeing how the Republicans are selling my ass out to the telecoms in the house*, I--someone who has been registered as a republican for as long as he could vote--am dumping that party until it comes to its senses.
Keel haul the blaggards!
* There are plenty of reasons to dump them, not just Net Neutrality. It's just that that's the absolute last straw. At this point, I feel like I'm throwing my vote away voting for either of the two main parties, anyhow so I might as well vote with someone I agree with...
As do I. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:As do I. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Or maybe the "Ugly Party"? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Or maybe the "Ugly Party"? (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, "Privateer" evokes a revolutionary-era image of our forefathers fighting for freedom from the (still) hated British.
But, these guys cant seriously expect votes, it's just a publicity stunt to get people to notice them and get some press. Unfortunately, they'll likely make a joke of the whole issue and hurt the cause more
What's in a name? (Score:5, Insightful)
These guys are trying to throw a wrench into the machinery; calling themselves "The Pirate Party" helps.
If they can get themselves sued over the name, all the better. They need all the mainstream attention they can get.
Re:What's in a name? (Score:5, Funny)
Just saying.
Re:Or maybe the "Ugly Party"? (Score:3, Insightful)
Take the EFF -- one one hand they try to be a legit public policy/civil rights organization, and on the other they wink and nod to downloaders with slick ads in Wired magazine. It's duplicitious and undermines their credibility. It's better to be honest and sa
Re:Or maybe the "Ugly Party"? (Score:5, Funny)
---------------------
<Brenty> You know, I think the media really fucked up when they called it "software piracy"
<Brenty> Everyone WANTS to be a pirate
<Brenty> If they'd called it "software faggotry" everyone would still buy all their shit
Pirate Bay US (Score:3, Interesting)
Too bad it's futile (Score:5, Insightful)
But I support the idea. The idea has been picked up by our communists. I guess I'll become a comrade.
Re:Too bad it's futile (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't tell Jim Jeffords [wikipedia.org] or Bernie Sanders [wikipedia.org].
-h-
Re:Too bad it's futile (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Too bad it's futile (Score:5, Insightful)
With the election system of the US, it's always 2 parties with nobody having thet slightest chance to muscle in, at best in local elections (which, frankly, have no impact on copyright laws).
But that's the best place to start, locally. Some small town, say here in NJ. A Pirate Party candidate runs, solicits donations via Internet, runs a clean campaign and overwhelms some lowlife local mayor by making him/her look out of touch with the modern world. If elected, that candidiate becomes a news item; next up - city council elections! You just work your way through, starting at the grass roots level, shoe-horning your way into every nook and cranny of local politics until you have a large enough power base to build state organizations. It's only a couple more jumps until you're in the national spotlight. The whole thing hinges, however, on getting youth to vote, because they would probably identify more strongly from the start with a Pirate Party candidate.
As an aside, the name is fine; after all there used to be "Whigs" and "Tories"; how lame are those?
Re:Too bad it's futile (Score:5, Insightful)
* The drinking age would be 18 again.
* Publicly owned Colleges and Universities would be Free
* Insurance rates would be equitable
* etc.. etc..
Fact is that they DON'T get involved in politics in large numbers because Public Schools, by and large, arn't preparing kids to be adults - they're makeing "human resources."
Ohh, and Mom and Dad are too busy working or playing with their riches to notice that big bright place outside the front door.
Re:Too bad it's futile (Score:3, Insightful)
I think that starting a 527 committee and/or hiring a lobbyist is a better idea. Put together some well placed bribes^H^H^H^H^H^H campaign contributions to existing Congressional representatives (since your chances of getting one elected are
It's only futile because of you (Score:5, Interesting)
Then on election day, we see some bullshit like "49% people favor John Kerry and 51% people favor George Bush". Which we all know is wrong. Nearly everybody, in the last election, thought both candidates sucked.
Vote for who you want to vote for. They may not win, but we won't be sending some assclown to the whitehouse with some bullshit "51% american support" argument. The next time the republicrats win, I want to see the number say "7%", followed by maybe Greens or Libertarians with 4% and 5% type numbers. I want the numbers to clearly demonstrate what the people want.
If that were to happen, and the two parties will realize just how tenuous their connection to the voters are, and things will start to change.
But instead, all of the apathetic slugs out there contribute the the problem by saying "I really like blah-blahs positions but I dont want to waste my vote so I dunno, Hillary Clinton I guess".
Vote for the Pirate Party if you like them. They don't have to win to send a message.
Re:It's only futile because of you (Score:3, Insightful)
If no Presidential candidate gets a majority of the
Re:It's only futile because of you (Score:3, Insightful)
I see. So the lack of proportional party representation in the legislature, a century of gerrymandering, winner-take-all electoral college voting, and a bevy of exclusionary state election laws have nothing to do with it.
Re:Too bad it's futile (Score:3, Informative)
This is especially true during times of "fierce social change." See the election just
Re:Too bad it's futile (Score:5, Interesting)
Compare this to say, Sweden, where you vote for parties, and any party garnering over 4% of the vote (country-wide) gets legislative representation, without having to have majority support in any region. Then, such a party can make demands upon the larger parties seeking their support in forming a government.
I'm not advocating either form of democracy (I've seen the downside of both systems, having lived in both above-named countries), I personally dislike political parties and their influence. In fact the US constitution was intentionally crafted to prevent the influence of "factions" (source: The Federalist Papers), however futile this effort was...
Re:Too bad it's futile (Score:4, Interesting)
Avast! (Score:5, Interesting)
It be about time that someone be takin' up the mantle of IP reform and greater privacy! Fer sure, the twin armadas of the Republicrats and Democans have failed to take it on, and e'en the Libertarians and Greens don't talk too much about it.
Avast, mateys! Perchance finally there be a Party worth votin' for.
The sad this is, they appear to be serious! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The sad this is, they appear to be serious! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The sad this is, they appear to be serious! (Score:3, Insightful)
Newsletter? (Score:4, Funny)
Slogan: (Score:5, Funny)
They should hire Al Gore! (Score:5, Funny)
Holy convergance of idealologies Batman!
We all know Al Gore is all about Global Warming (See Here [wikipedia.org]), and we also know there is a direct link between the number of pirates and the average temperature of the earth! (See Here [venganza.org])
This cannot be an accident - it's fate!
DG
overkill...? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes.. (Score:5, Funny)
Very well written statement on their webpage! (Score:3, Funny)
waste of time (Score:4, Interesting)
Please spare me (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Please spare me (Score:5, Insightful)
Public backlast against *IAA (Score:4, Insightful)
Sigal: I think the raid is what brought this whole thing to my attention, and to the attention of people around the world. The raid in Sweden could turn out to be the best thing that happened to the internet community. I think it backfired on the MPAA. They wanted to take down a site they thought was illegal, but everyone noticed that the MPAA is terrorizing the people.
No kidding. Whether or not the party manages to elect any members, its time to bring these issues to the public on every front possible, including the political front. A strong grassroots effort behind the Pirate Party would throw these tactics right back in the face of the *IAA organizations.
i see alot of comments (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me know... (Score:4, Funny)
Privateers (Score:3, Funny)
I'd call the cops.
Libertarians have been saying this for decades (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcelroy/mcelroy17.html [lewrockwell.com] Patently Absurd
http://www.lewrockwell.com/sapienza/sapienza36.ht
http://www.mises.org/blog/archives/002935.asp [mises.org] Mises Economics Blog: Bill Gates: Anti-IP Movement Is Communist
I wish the Pirate party far better success than the Libertarians have had. It is surprising that the message of Liberty does not resonate in the United States.
Bob-
Unelectable (Score:4, Insightful)
Granted, no established party is going to really take this issue on in such a way either so I guess it leaves the public that wants this type of reform SOL.
Re:Unelectable (Score:3, Insightful)
thanks (Score:3, Interesting)
As such, the Pirate party will, if it gets anywhere (and it won't) would just suck off energy from the Democrat party.
If they were wise, which they are not, they would recognize the way to have their voice heard and actually get stuff done is to act as a caucus within one of the two established parties.
Years and years ago the presidential campaign of Pat Robertson did the same thing. After LOSING, they formed an organization known as the Christian Coalition. They decided not to form their own political party but to ingrain themselves and take over the Republican party from the ground up. They were largely successful. The Christian Coalition on the national level is just a shel but their mission has largely been accomplished and they, in many cases, _are_ the Republican Party.
The Democrat party can be taken over (or at least heavily influenced) in the same way by an organized group - but it seems the Pirate Party is not it.
Could be worse (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This is what we need, but named horribly (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is what we need, but named horribly (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is what we need, but named horribly (Score:3, Insightful)
Also this way the "piracy thing" is right there to discuss at the beginning instead of the **AA bringing it up at some other inopportune time.
Re:This is what we need, but named horribly (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This is what we need, but named horribly (Score:4, Funny)
Re:This is what we need, but named horribly (Score:5, Insightful)
This is not a normal political party. They do not want to act within the established sphere of law and government, they want to change them. Maybe calling themselves Pirates will make people (especially the millions and millions of people who want the same things) realize that the *AA's of the world are villainizing intelligent people who contribute to society. If someone identifies with the Pirate Party, maybe they'll say, hey, I don't feel good about being called evil all the time.
Note: obviously, I see your point, I could have made it myself and I don't think you're dumb, nor do I disagree with you all that much. But c'mon. Would a party by any other name be able to get attention, respect, and votes if they had the same agenda? I think if anything, somebody else would give them the nickname "the Pirate Party," and then they'd be guilty of dressing that up, but the public would still see the name "Pirate Party" being thrown around.
Have you seen '8 Mile'? In the battle at the end, where Em/B. Rabbit throws out all the obvious ammo his opponent would have? I see this as pretty similar.
It's an uphill, probably impossible battle in either case; it's just a bold stroke to come out with it and call themselves "the Pirate Party," and I'm interested to see where they go with it and how much we'll hear about it from other outlets.
Re:This is what we need, but named horribly (Score:5, Insightful)
Ugh. If someone likes your house, and they take it away from you, you no longer have it. If someone likes your house, and replicates it on their own property (the method is unimportant to this discussion), does that diminish the value of your home?
Why do you, as an artist feel that you should be able to mooch off your one big work for the rest of your life (and your children's lives, etc.)? Do you think it would be equitable for the person who painted your house to receive a royalty check every time someone admires your house? Should the plumber get a check every time you flush your toilet?
This is not intended as a flame. I seriously want to know, from someone who feels this entitlement, where do you draw the line? How can you make these comparisons with a straight face?
Re:This is what we need, but named horribly (Score:4, Insightful)
He didn't create the money in the bank. He created something of value (to someone) and was paid for it. He got paid for the perceived value he added. If he stopped adding that value, he would stop getting paid. Now he has enough money that he can invest it in other venues that add value, and claim some of the reward for that added value, but that is neither here nor there. It's the same thing for office workers. They stop adding value they stop getting paid. Let's say I'm a psychologist. I create contentment (if I'm any good). Do I get to control the level of contentment in the people I treat after I'm done treating them? I created it (it wasn't there before I did my work). Is it not mine?
No problems here. This is really how I feel it should work. You created something, you got paid for your work. As a painter, or a sculptor you charge admission to view your work. As a singer you hold concerts. As a songwriter, you write music for singers to sing.
And if you found that people were not willing to pay this much, would you complain about the fact that you couldn't make a living at it?
I imagine the pun was unintentional. In any case, this is simply not true. If you are a good plumber, then people will continue to call on your services. If you are a good artist, people will continue to call on your services. If your plumbing skills are sub-par, you are likely not going to be able to make a living at it*. Same thing for an artist. If nobody likes your work enough to make it worth your while to continue to produce it, why should you continue to get paid for the work that you did in the past? The biggest difference I see is the potential glamor of being a big name artist means there is a glut of supply there. Contrast the number of people who wish to be a rock star as a career, versus the number of people who dream of being a plumber.
I still feel my question is left unanswered. Where does this sense of entitlement to be paid for past work come in?
Re:This is not what we need. (Score:3, Funny)
They should just talk people into sending them a percentage of the purchase price every time someone pirates something! Even Bush couldn't raise that much money...
Re:This is not what we need. (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree with you, the world's nuts. One of these days we'll have a Finnish kid and a beardy hacker saying "Hey, let's make an operating system!". And I bet they'll give it a cryptic name and a penguin for mascot. And then they'd say stupid things like "Software should be Free". How can a stupid idea like that prosper in today's capitalistic world? Sheesh.
Re:truly not an american way (Score:5, Insightful)
Likewise, OSS was labeled as terrorism/communism by some, and now it is pretty much understood that it is one of the truer forms of capitalism (and charity).
Somewhere down the road, as ip laws are changed, this group may be changed from being consider terrorists to heros.
Re:Good start but needs more (Score:3, Interesting)
1. People found a party around an issue they feel is important but neither major party agrees.
2. Small single-issue party grows bigger
3. One major party takes notice, and absorbs the issue, effectively disbanding the party
I'm not saing it's great, but I suppose it's a kind of victory
Re:Guantanamo beckons... (Score:3, Informative)