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French PM Unreceptive To RMS
Posted by
Hemos
on Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:29 AM
from the poor-reception dept.
from the poor-reception dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Six month after the publication of very bad amendments to French DRM law proposal, Richard Stallman has been pushed back by the chief of security team of French Prime minister.
On Friday 9th of June 2006 at 3.30pm, Richard Stallman, president of Free Software Foundation, led a delegation composed by Frédéric Couchet (Free Software Foundation France) and Christophe Espern (EUCD.INFO initiative) to meet the French Prime minister in order to talk about the French DRM law proposal and to deliver the EUCD.INFO petition signed by more than 165,000 French residents. Richard Stallman and his friends were pushed back by the chief of security team. "
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RMS! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:RMS! (Score:3, Insightful)
You missed a step:
Step 1.5: Try to schedule a meeting with the leader and get ignored
I'd be pissed off too if I represented 165,000 people and was twice blown off by some "leader" who was obviously too busy to do things like actually listen to his constituency!
Re:RMS! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:RMS! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:RMS! (Score:4, Insightful)
The PM doesn't have to schedule it himself; that's what secretaries are for. If nothing else, two weeks should have been enough time for the secretary to at least reply with something like "we received your request, and it's waiting to be processed" (assuming they sent it by some reasonably speedy method).
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Re:RMS! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:RMS! (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a thing called protocol. Diplomatic protocol has many functions, one of them is to serve as a spam filter.
It sounds as if what they did was to send the letter to the French PM's office directly where it would be mixed in with all the letters from the other hundred thousand or so cranks writing to him. The chance that the letter would even be read by a minor functionary in that time is small. The chance of a prompt reply smaller.
Correct protocol in the case of RMS would have been to send the letter to the French Embassy in the US and request a meeting with the minister in charge of technology. Demanding a meeting with the PM is pretty presumptuous for a private individual who is not even a citizen of the country concerned.
I was really hoping that this was going to be a case where I could say that I had zero sympathy for either party. However it appears that only RMS was acting in a meglamonaical fashion in this particular case.
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Re:RMS! (Score:3, Insightful)
The French PM may have "maturely" decided not to have the meeting but his lack of response to any of the letters requesting it was quite immature.
Re:RMS! (Score:5, Insightful)
This may be true, given that our PM is up shit creek with no paddle as he is implied in a major scandal involving weapon trading, false document and intra government back stabbing.
But OTOH all this DRM issue is being discussed in both parliaments at this moment, and to be fair, this was indeed the correct timing. Furthermore, at the moment the french government is making itself very unpopular by pushing laws without leaving much space for a proper democratic discussion.
Parent
Re:Actual excuse used... (Score:4, Funny)
"Yes, Mr Stallman, the Prime Minister would love to meet with you but I'm afraid he will be busy washing his hair that day."
A tactical mistake. Having met RMS, I suspect that hair-washing is something to which he does not attach particular importance.
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Re:RMS! (Score:5, Funny)
Geee and he wasn't allowed in right away......
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No appointment and he was pushed back? Horror! (Score:4, Insightful)
Is this really a news story? Someone without an appointment tries to seek a personal audience with a world leader and is denied? That's not anti-DRM, it's just common sense.
Re:No appointment and he was pushed back? Horror! (Score:5, Informative)
For they are not just "someone" but 3 individuals quite involved into this DRM saga, thus having points and a petition to be discussed.
Bill Gates is received with all the honors by the President and RMS & Co can't even reach the prime minister or even some random official guy ?
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Re:No appointment and he was pushed back? Horror! (Score:3, Interesting)
Umm... No. I fully support anyone who chooses not to meet with RMS, for whatever reason they choose.
-jcr
Re:No appointment and he was pushed back? Horror! (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:No appointment and he was pushed back? Horror! (Score:3, Insightful)
For they are not just "someone" but 3 individuals quite involved into this DRM saga, thus having points and a petition to be discussed.
Jeez, come on. Most of the geek community knows who RMS is, but in world leader terms, he is NOBODY. He has very little influence. Linus Torvalds has ten times the influence, and even he isn't that important in the big picture.
Bill Gates is received with all the honors by the President and RMS & Co can't even reach the prime minister or even some random official g
Re:No appointment and he was pushed back? Horror! (Score:3, Insightful)
-Rick
Thank you! (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, the khakis and polo shirt may partially balance off the boxcar hobo facial hair for your normal everyday operations, but it doesn't show a proper degree of respect for the person you're trying to meet who happens to be an elected official. Remember the hooplah about the college girls' soccer team who met the President in nice sun dresses and flip-flops? Just a hint: you don't half look as good as those girls -- maybe less. Work harder at your appearance. They did you a favor by not letting you in the door. You'd have embarrassed yourself and us looking like that.
When you are a leader, delegate, or some other form of representative, you need to give the proper impression of the people you are representing. It may well be that F/OSS people are old hippies with too much facial hair and a beer gut, but you do them a grave disservice to paint them that way. By showing up with that list of 165,000 people, you have appointed yourself their representative, and you painted them with a bad brush from first glance. You need to be their best face. The impression of you is the impression of them.
You want respect (and that's what this is all about, right?), you need to:
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Re:No appointment and he was pushed back? Horror! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes and no. For starters, he is representing 165,000 people, so in addition to himself, he needs to be true to those 165,000 people. Second, politics is a job for salesmen/saleswomen. It is not enough to say to the PM "This is who we are, this is what we think, and this is a list of a huge number of voters who agree with us!" They have to sell the idea to the PM. And in this position, your previous point is partially true, if the PM doesn't think you look respectable, he won't respect you. You could have the greatest issue ever, with the whole country supporting you, but if you send someone who looks like a pressure washed street bum in to talk to the PM, your spokes person won't likely get a word in.
The PM of France probably gets thousands of requests similar to the ones that RMS sent in. Some undersecretary flips through them and determines who gets in. Will that person schedule some of the PM's limited time to 3 guys with a petition which would likely have little gain for the country, or schedule some time with the leader of an international software firm that employees thousands and provides software and services to a huge portion of the economy? It's a no brain-er.
To get philosophical about the whole deal, society is extremely discriminating. Everyone is, it is the norm. Some forms of discrimination are frowned on (race, sex, heritage, religion, etc...) but many more forms are not only acceptable, but expected. Appearance, money, affluence, education, clout, and profit potential are all acceptable things to judge someone on. If set upon by three individuals wearing nice suits appearing professional and politely requesting a moment of his time (30 seconds or less to spout off who they are, their voting block, and that they would like to arrange a meeting), he may go for it. If set upon by two college kids and a showered hippy asking for a moment of his time with papers and a huge role of paper, he's just going to blow them off.
They should hire a lobbyist to at least teach them the etiquette of the position so they can use the system to their advantage in stead of parading about like a bunch of college kids on a crusade.
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Tag: Obvious (Score:3, Insightful)
In the PCInpact article Frédéric Couchet, from FSF France, evokes the difference in treatment between the reception of Bill Gates as a Head of State by the president of the Republic and that of Richard Stallman by the chief of the security team of Matignon . Richard Stallman believes to have the explanation: Gates is the emperor, we are only citizens , he said. - duh. Earth to RMS: some French dude, who happens to be a PM of France doesn't HAVE to listen to you and choses not to listen to you, but if you offer money he may reconsider, are you surprised?
(note: I am not saying BG offered money, I am saying BG is seen as someone, who can bring monetary advantages to a country.)
He Was Not Invited, And Wanted An Audience... (Score:4, Insightful)
Lucky he wasn't shot... (Score:5, Insightful)
Even outside of politics that isn't acceptable behaviour. How would you feel if you ran a business and as you left the office the CEO of another company was trying to convince you to sell your shares to him, following you about and such?
Normal people make a meeting... Or if failing that they write the grievance down and hand deliver it. They don't make a run at the guy, and try and get it words and then act like a victim when it doesn't work.
Damn right the security pushed him back... He should have been asked to leave if he acts like that.
Re:Lucky he wasn't shot... (Score:5, Informative)
Letters were sent a few days ago to tell the day and hour of his coming (he flew from Boston especially for this occasion), so he wasn't exactly "forcing his way" and the guards said that de decision to refuse him was "maturely decided"... This is a political decision of not receiving him, and nothing else.
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What the hell? (Score:4, Insightful)
The arrogance of that is simply astounding. "I shall arrive, you shall se me." Pardon? It doesn't help that he insists on showing up looking like Robbie Coltrane on holiday and certainly not combined with that downright papal attitude. Newsflash, Richard, the rest of the world DOES expect to be treated with respect and that includes making appointments--in reasonable time--and showing up properly attired. Oh yes, you're an eccentric genius...yeah, and he's the Prime Minister of France. Wear a fucking suit and comb your goddamned hair, you lazy slob.
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Re:Lucky he wasn't shot... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, one difference is that the PM is in charge of a democracy, whereas the two people in your analogy are economic competitors. One might reasonably be inclined to think that those in charge of a democracy have some duty to listen to their citizens, and one might also wonder just how accessible our ``leaders" are these days. (I live in Texas, and I'm way to the left. Do you think I'm going to get an audience with my insanely conservative senators to explain why they should support net neutrality or abortion rights or drug legalization or gay marriage? Yeah, ``make an appointment"---that's a great idea.)
Of course, RMS is not a citizen of France (though other members of the delegation are), and we can always debate the effectiveness of any particular political action/stunt. But the idea that he was just being rude because he was demanding attention from the elected leaders of a democracy is the kind of notion that ensures that the status quo (and whoever owns it) rules the day.
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Re:Lucky he wasn't shot... (Score:3, Insightful)
I mean this in all seriousness - have you tried? Have you met with the staffers? Have you written letters? Or are you using your assumptions of failure as a reason not to make the effort?
Re:Lucky he wasn't shot... (Score:4, Insightful)
In theory, yes. In practice, there's no way a senior official can personally meet each and every citizen and discuss his or her concerns with them. That's why different levels of government and "official channels" exist - you start with the secretary (or whatever) and someone at each level decides whether the matter can be handled at that level, or kicked up to the next. You'd be amazed how many nutjobs want to go directly to the President to discuss issues that would be more appropriate for their city's Mayor. It's almost like a DDOS attack on the bureacracy - it makes it much more difficult for a legitimate request to work its way through.
All told, only an idiot would seriously expect to receive an appointment with a senior official on two weeks notice, and I don't think RMS is an idiot. This looks to me like he knew full well he wouldn't get in, so he made a cheap publicity stunt out of it. Unfortunately for the "movement", this stunt puts him on about the same level as the guy who climbed Buckingham Palace in a superhero (Batman, I think...) costume.
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no offense to RMS (Score:5, Insightful)
newsflash (Score:3, Insightful)
Confused... (Score:4, Interesting)
The French government seem to be split on issues relating to open source (Software patents and DRM etc.) but do seem to be discussing it in public and with some authority, putting France somewhere at the top of the list of countries doing something about the issues at hand. We don't know which way it will swing, but at least we know it will be discussed first. Oh and congratulations to the 165,000 French People and 1000 Organisations who signed the EUCD.INFO petition, your doing something and this story should have focused on you, not on getting the most interesting headline.
Give Me A Break (Score:4, Interesting)
Give me a freakin' break.
Although Stallman has done a lot for free software, government officials probably don't know nor care who he is. I'm sure the French PM's schedule is CRAZY, and like any head of state they would NEVER allow a walk-in visitor. The behavior of the PM's office is predictable, and yet they decided to go anyway instead of finding some better method of getting their petition to the PM.
Stallman should focus on actually trying to improve the state of things instead of weak publicity stunts like this. He's an attention whore, plain and simple.
Re:Give Me A Break (Score:5, Insightful)
How were they supposed to find some better method when the PM's office wouldn't even dignify their request with a response, pray tell? If the secretary had even made an attempt to arrange something that would be one thing, but being ignored completely is unacceptable.
Parent
Now go away... (Score:5, Funny)
On Friday 9th of June 2006 at 3.30pm, Richard Stallman led a delegation composed by Frédéric Couchet (Free Software Foundation France) and Christophe Espern (EUCD.INFO initiative) to meet the French Prime minister in order to talk about the French DRM law proposal. Richard Stallman and his friends were pushed back by the chief of security team.
...or we will taunt you a second time!
Arg! I am embarrassed by my countrymen. (Score:4, Insightful)
Please wear a suit when trying to meet with foreign dignitaries.
And at least wear your hair back and trim your beard a little. You look like a hippy slob, and that was how you were received.
You do free software a disservice by appearing like don't you give a crap. You expect them to take you seriously looking like you don't take them seriously?
And what (Score:3)
So pretentious... (Score:5, Insightful)
If anything, those who insist that people in positions of respect (managers, political officials, etc.) listen to them even if they dress in a slovenly way are the ones guilty of assuming superiority -- they think they are (or their message is) important enough to disregard the manners and cultural expectations of their audience. That is, simply put, snobbery of the worst kind -- it masquerades as egalitarianism.
You know why people are taken more seriously in a suit? Because it's our culture's accepted formal attire for business. If your audience is important enough, you will respect their culture. If their culture says "formal meetings involve suits", then you should wear a suit. Simple.
We already implicitly acknowledge this when it comes to other formalities like the exchange of business cards, shaking of hands, etc. For example, in Japan, one offers and accepts business cards with both hands, out of respect for the Japanese culture. In France, as in the US, one wears a suit to meet with those in positions of respect or power (politicians, management, etc.).
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Re:Arg! I am embarrassed by my countrymen. (Score:3, Insightful)
Heh, what's wrong with you? You're forgetting a very fundamental thing:
Freedom does not mean lack of responsibility.
Freedom comes at a price - and sometimes, that price is you having to do things that will get you noticed.
If you really value freedom more than simply making a statement, you would do whatever it takes to make sure that your call for freedom gets noticed. If you value your dress-code more than what you represent, you d
You may not agree... (Score:5, Insightful)
Bill Gates is a citizen of the US, just like Stallman. Gates and Stallman take opposing viewpoints on the particular issue, and both are well known and intelligent individuals with strong arguments. However, only Gates was allowed to talk to the PM.
Stallman tried to get an audience with the PM, but was refused. It was only after the refusal that he tried to just "barge in", and there is *nothing wrong with this*. This kind of thing has happened throughout history -- a corrupt goverment has favored a certain group of people, and the unfavored group resorts to any tactics necessary to get themesleves heard.
Those of you who are criticizing Stallman, saying thing like "duh, I could have told you this would fail"... You're totally missing the point. Stallman also knew it would fail. Why else would he have a cameraman on hand ready to document the event. He's making a point, and it seems like a lot of people are missing it.
In a very real sense, Stallman represents the little guy, and Gates represents the corporate interests. In a very real sense, the goverments are NOT listening to the people. When the governments are only hearing one side of the story on DRM/copyright, it should be obvious that the laws are going to be heavily biased. And *this* is what is bad. Nobody from the opposite end of the spectrum is being listened to, and we are LOSING OUR RIGHTS.
Stallman is out there putting his ass on the line to show people this, and hopefully reach a larger audience than the few geeks on Slashdot who already know how bad everything has gotten. Before you get too critical of his methods, ask yourself what *you* have done to help turn the tide. Because sitting on your ass complaining about the shutdown of The Pirate Bay isn't accomplishing a damn thing.
Re:You may not agree... (Score:5, Interesting)
Your quite right Stallman knew this was going to fail. But the real issue is something you neglected to point out is, that DRM is not about copying songs and video.
This is a much bigger issue than that.
It has to do with education, who gets knowledge, who can pay for knowledge and those that can't are screwed.
This goes for anything science or technology related.
Throughout history corrupt regimes and governments have known all too well that citizens that can read or write, or are empowered to discover or reorganize information without dogma are "disruptive" to the state as a whole.
Whether you like it or not, Universities, school systems etc are not setup by what one accomplishes or contributes. They are setup for those who want to play "the game" so to speak. Don't play the "game" and your out. This is painfully obvious if you are in a computer science department and are doing research. If someone doesn't like your ideas, your out.
See it happen to my prof personally and the process is disgusting because it ties everything to money and corporate contributors and very little of it has to do with any real science.
What Stallman is really advocating is that information and technology should be available for all, free for all and there should be no barriers constructed artifically or legislated by governments.
Since most of his arguments revolve around software this makes sense because software is what directs computers to share or not share information. As the world becomes fully networked, obviously there is going to be a huge divide if something isn't done about it soon.
The little guy here as you should point out is every Slashdot reader.
I also believe you made a interesting point about governments listening. If it hasn't hit everyone in the head by now, governments ARE listening quite well to thier citizens. But these citizens are not individuals, they are corporations.
I do not even believe governments such as those in the US for example even listen to citizens as defined as "voter" anymore.
Which brings me to a rather not so nice future painting. The entire globe is one huge computer network. If you don't work for a corporation, you can't learn. Can't learn, can't get a job. Can't get a job, your even lower than the guy working for the corporation so you get substandard or next to no healthcare, your kids can't go to college because it is too expensive. (i.e. every public university will be corporate owned in about 20-30 years anyway at the rate its going. Form a buget perspective anyway.) Furthermore, if you are caught making copies of information say about "Calculas" or "American History" DRM books you can instantly be imprisoned for hard labor with no trial.
Sounds absolutely rediculous if it wasn't for the fact that it has already happened.
-Hack
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Re:You may not agree... (Score:4, Insightful)
Then he didn't make the point very well, did he?
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And here I was thinking (Score:4, Funny)
165,000 signatures??? (Score:3, Informative)
Since there were so little signatures, this could mean three things: a) there's and evil scheme to supress free speech and petition signing, b) people are not well educated on the subject or c) people simply don't agree with the petition. Choose one.
Re:165,000 signatures??? (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe France is different, but here in the US there's a huge discrepancy between the number of people who hold an opinion and the number of people willing to take the effort to express it (by signing a petition, voting, or whatever). I would say 165,000 signatures is a lot even here, let alone in France.
Not to mention the difficulty in advertizing the thing in the first place, and the logistics of getting the document and the signer in the same place.... it's likely that most of those 63 million people nev
Look at the photos (Score:5, Interesting)
parfume (Score:4, Funny)
This was a maturely decided political decision.. (Score:3, Insightful)
What's the point of visiting Mr. De Villepin? (Score:3, Insightful)
I misread that! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Shocking (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Not very funny. (Score:5, Interesting)
In point of fact, what Americans who have issues with France don't understand about themselves is they hate France not because they "surrender," but because in their contrarian nature as per American-directed foreign policy, France asserts itself in precisely the same way as the French would if the situation were reversed.
In the same way the French government doesn't just roll over every time the US government wants to play GI Joe somewhere in the world, the US does the same when it comes to the UN. If the situation were reversed and France was the so-called "superpower," the US government would act just as France does. This reality is so uncomfortable to modern Americans, that it is psychologically blocked out. One would think given the purported values system of the US that we would respect people who had enough stones to say, "No" when the US demanded something. Instead on one hand Americans criticize the French for standing up for themselves and their own interests, but praise certain other countries for rolling over like bitches whenever the US wants to go launch some dumb war.
There are those of us here in the US who experience distinct amusement when France opts out of some harebrained US scheme, and Americans get all wound up. The "freedom fries" incident is just further proof of the devolution of a distinct segment of American society; a decent into dumb simian weirdness; I'm looking for atavistic traits to start to appear so we can identify these people on sight.
You know, as an American I get sick of having to listen to how horrible we are every ten seconds on the net, and I get sick of getting lumped in with a certain ugly element now dominant in our culture. I can understand how French people get sick of hearing this "surrender" shit every five minutes (and I'm sure modern Germans get tired of watching people try to wind them up about a certain period in their past).
Making blanket nationalistic statements against a whole people may be satisfying for a moment, but it can also be dispiriting to those of us in these countries who on one hand acknowledge the excesses of our own governments and cultures, and are kind of stuck with the situation, and get lumped in with the loudest and most obnoxious of our fellow citizens.
And while I acknowledge this growing cloud of Dumb hanging over the United States, I also refuse to accept that that cloud of Dumb exclusively defines us as a people. I refuse to look at the most ugly and obnoxious people in our country, who have in recent years been ascendant and have controlled the debate, and allow others to point to them and say, "That, there, is what the United States is." Because I am here too, as are many people who are disgusted. Our time will come, too.
Believe me, as much as it may annoy you to read tired, worn, cliche, unoriginal, trite comments about France, keep in mind that there are many reasonably intelligent people who have to live here next door to the people who make these idiotic comments on a daily basis. Their aggressive stupidity is not limited to the France-bashing. The France bashing is a symptom of a deeper problem, and these people vote.
I'd apologize for the freedom fries crap except, the people who did that don't represent me. They may claim to and people may recognize them as such but they are, to me, a distinctly alien crowd of people who have nothing to do with me, my interests, or my personal ideas of what the United States is supposed to be about (not that I even grant that the common criticisms of the US are all entirely valid, though many of them are).
Besides, we all know the reality about war - Americans have for several decades now truly enjoyed war...so long as it happens far away and doesn't impact them. I guarantee that as soon as war *inconveniences* the average American by, say, oh, happening on US soil, we'll
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