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Microsoft Talks Daily With Your Computer

Posted by samzenpus on Wed Jun 07, 2006 08:20 PM
from the what-could-go-wrong dept.
Microsoft
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft Corp. acknowledged Wednesday that it needs to better inform users that its tool for determining whether a computer is running a pirated copy of Windows also quietly checks in daily with the software maker. The company said the undisclosed daily check is a safety measure designed to allow the tool, called Windows Genuine Advantage, to quickly shut down in case of a malfunction." The EULA is suppose to disclose this daily call-in feature. Lauren Weinstein, who is co-founder of People for Internet Responsibility, was one of the first people to notice the daily communications to Microsoft. Report from Yahoo.com"
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[+] Ask Slashdot: Has Orwell's '1984' Come 22 Years Later? 1272 comments
gabec asks: "This weekend my mother bought a grille lighter, something like this butane lighter. The self-scanner at Kroger's locked itself up and paged a clerk, who had to enter our drivers license numbers into her kiosk before we could continue. Last week my girlfriend bought four peaches. An alert came up stating that peaches were a restricted item and she had to identify herself before being able to purchase such a decidedly high quantity of the dangerous fruit. My video games spy on me, reporting the applications I run, the websites I visit, the accounts of the people I IM. My ISP is being strong-armed into a two-year archive of each action I take online under the guise of catching pedophiles, the companies I trust to free information are my enemies, the people looking out for me are being watched. As if that weren't enough, my own computer spies on me daily, my bank has been compromised, my phone is tapped--has been for years--and my phone company is A-OK with it. What's a guy that doesn't even consider himself paranoid to think of the current state of affairs?" The sad state of affairs is that Big Brother probably became a quiet part of our lives a lot earlier. The big question now is: how much worse can it get?
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  • Minor edit (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 07 2006, @08:23PM (#15491590)

    The EULA is suppose to

    That should be 'supposed'. What happened to the 'd'?

    disclosed this

    Oh, there it is.

    • remote deauthorization (Score:5, Insightful)

      by johnrpenner (40054) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @11:24PM (#15492428) Homepage

      if microsoft can remotely 'unlegitimize' a copy of windows,
      couldn't a virus or worm massively remotely cripple loads of machines
      by exploiting this...?

      • Re:remote deauthorization (Score:5, Informative)

        by Poltras (680608) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @11:40PM (#15492498) Homepage
        Actually it can, quite easily... with administrative rights, it can cripple most of your registry and many drivers/dlls (even those unchecked by Windows) and then reboot the machine :) that would work quite efficiently.

        The goal of many viruses is not to destroy stuff, but simple other goals such as:

        • Make money over advertisement (adware).
        • Botnets, in order to attain other goals (DoS, attacks, etc)
        • Get passwords, credit cards number and other information which could be useful.
        • Leave a message (think MSBLAST.exe kind). What better way to tell "I <3 you" than with the gift of a virus?
        A destroyed installation of Windows does not serve much...

          • Confused (Score:5, Funny)

            by alexhs (877055) on Thursday June 08 2006, @03:36AM (#15493085) Homepage Journal
            Then, on a certain date (sadly, 6/6/06, although very symbolic, passed without any such occurence)

            Excuse me, in what order did you write that date ?
            • American way : June 6th 2006
            • European way : 6th June 2006
            • Asian way : 2006 June 6th
            • Alien way : 6th 2006 June

            When all numbers are below 12, it's quite hard to get a clue ;)
            Is it even 2006 ? 1906 and 1006 fits in too...

            • Re:Confused (Score:5, Funny)

              by cp.tar (871488) <cp.tar.bz2@gmail.com> on Thursday June 08 2006, @05:27AM (#15493308) Journal
              Excuse me, in what order did you write that date ?
              Alien way : 6th 2006 June

              Ah, you have much to learn, young one...

              You were hoping to discern my location, political orientation and whatnot based on my date format?

              Do you really think I would let on that I'm an alien in such an obvious way?

              When you see a flying saucer in front of your house, that's when you'll know we've come for you...

      • Virus scenario (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 08 2006, @03:54AM (#15493128)
        A virus could use one of the "Product-Key Changer" scripts (see http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=328874 [microsoft.com]) to install a pirated product key on every infected computer (whiping all traces of the original key).

        This would render millions of genuine installations indistinguishable from pirated installations. What a mess for Microsoft! They would have to immediately "kill forever" the WGA helper, and maybe even remove the WGA check on Windows Update.

        Such a virus would be a hard lesson to learn for the writers of all kinds of automated "genuine" checks.

        Regards,
        M.

  • What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ScrewMaster (602015) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @08:24PM (#15491593)
    ... quickly shut down in case of a malfunction.

    So Genuine Advantage needs to contact the mothership in order to be told that it's broken and needs to terminate?

    Please.

    • Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by caitsith01 (606117) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @09:32PM (#15491913) Homepage Journal
      Whilst I generally agree that it is indeed bullshit, it is possible to imagine the scenario in which, for some reason, there is a bug in Genuine Advantage which leads to a denial of access to the Windows Update service for legitimately registered users.

      I have often wondered whether Steam has a similar feature - if Valve goes bankrupt, for instance, does it release you from the (ridiculous) copy protection/licensing arrangements put in place when you install Half Life 2 and other products?

      The best way to do any of this would be to simply check if the parent company's server is still there and able to provide authentication/updating. If it is unavailable for some reason the local software should function autonomously, as it always should, but without the need for approval from the parent.

      Of course the *real* best solution is to stop trying to monitor usage on a micro-level and just make good products at a reasonable price. As has been demonstrated over and over again, this is the way to stop piracy.
    • I hate that tool...it seems like it is the only update that gets pulled down regularily. It pulls itself down and gets installed when I finally relent to it (since I am in no hurry to update it, even though updates come out all of the time) but then it wants me to restart. That's all fine and dandy, I'll let it do its business the next time I feel like restarting.

      Oh, whats this? It pops up every 10 minutes asking me to reboot and gives me no option like "remind me tomorrow"

      Come on microsoft...dont force me to sit through this shit on nonessential updates

    • OK. I agree It's total BS. Anyone here remember win98 1st ed phone home info disclosure (on connect to windows update)? Oh and they forgot to disclose that in the EULA too.

      Same tricks, different year.

      However it's not like Redhat's Up2date doesn't phone home daily too. Oh and doesn't it NOT allow you to automagically install patches unless you have current support agreement (which you could rotate between servers if you had one).

      I only happen to know because a certain software vendor likes to use RHEL (maybe they're just rolling back prices like walmart).

      I guess that's within the rules (but they're still scumbags)?

      I run Fedora.

      • Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 07 2006, @08:32PM (#15491636)
        I haven't had it happen, but maybe this [vnunet.com] is what you're looking for?

      • Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Informative)

        by pro_virus (980758) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @09:09PM (#15491827)
        My Sygate got the beast on the fly and there wasn't any registry key that started it... So I couldn't block it from starting at each boot. So I simply renamed the file and I have not any trouble since that :D

        The file is in the system32 directory and the filename is : "WgaTray.exe". I simply renamed it :"WgaTray.bak" and it left my alone :D

        Hope this help. Chow

          • Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Insightful)

            by JonahDark1 (63703) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @10:26PM (#15492144)
            I'm sorry, but you've completely missed the point. I don't want my computer talking to Microsoft daily. I don't believe Microsoft has any right to know what's going on with my computer. My software is a legal copy and if they want to check that when I download updates, I'll tolerate that, but it shouldn't be sliently calling home.

            • Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Interesting)

              by ScrappyLaptop (733753) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @11:58PM (#15492559)
              And luckily, you have that choice, but I am afraid it is you that has missed the point. Microsoft owns that software, not you. You are merely licensed to use it. By agreeing to the EULA and continuing to use Windows, you agree to whatever conditions Microsoft sets forth. The best part of it is that you *pay* for the honor of doing so. If you disagree with Microsoft's actions, you are free to use another operating system or office suite or what have you. I just wonder when that final choice will disappear; imagine if the EULA had a clause that stated, in legalese, "...and I further agree to only run Microsoft Operating Systems on this PC from this point forward". You know, all in the name of allowing Microsoft to provide better support, etc. No reason not to add a clause like that, really...

              • Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Insightful)

                by Archtech (159117) on Thursday June 08 2006, @03:16AM (#15493033)
                "If you disagree with Microsoft's actions, you are free to use another operating system or office suite or what have you".

                And there you have it. As more and more users come to understand the legal facts of the matter, as expounded in this thread, they will have a strong incentive to adopt other operating systems that cost less and impose less unreasonable conditions.

                In this context it is interesting to note that the difference between Windows and Linux is steadily being eroded. Indeed, in some ways Linux is distinctly superior; but the key point is that its weaknesses relative to Windows (read: buying objections) are rapidly disappearing. SuSE, to which I am in the process of migrating, is easier to install than Windows; just as efficient; more flexible; and, AFAICS, just as easy to use once you get used to it (which takes a few days). On the plus side, it's far less expensive, offers far better support, and is open and extensible.

                Applications used to be a deal-breaker, but I have been using OpenOffice.org recently and it is, if anything, better than Office for my purposes. (Admittedly, I still have Office 97 which is arguably inferior to Office 2003, but why should I shell out big bucks every few years for what is essentially the same product?) Quicken used to be an issue, until Intuit suddenly withdrew from the UK market at the same time as my copy of Quicken mysteriously stopped working. So now there is really no reason why I would prefer Windows to Linux.

          • Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Insightful)

            by oh_bugger (906574) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @10:35PM (#15492191)
            According to some comments on a webpage posted earlier in the thread (hunt for it), people have been incorrectly accused of having non-genuine versions of Windows when they actually have completly paid for versions. If this is true then one day turning on their computer to find it's formated and not working will probably piss them off, even more if they realise it was Microsoft that did it. Also someone might deside to write some malware which fools the program into telling Microsoft that the copy of Windows is pirated, a while later Microsoft will go ahead and do the damage for them.

            Whether or not Windows is or isn't the best OS to have, these people chose to pay their money to Microsoft and the excuse "It'll teach some pirates a lesson" is not enough to waste their time and money.

            • Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Interesting)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 07 2006, @11:23PM (#15492420)
              Last week my "genuine" copy of Windows was accused of being pirated when I accidentally changed the date on my computer. There was no way to fix it, I spoke with several members of Windows customer support who could not help me and transfered me in a complete circle ending up with the original number that I called. I had to reinstall windows, hoping it would help and that I wouldn't lose everything (since I was prevented from accessing windows during this time). Reinstalling (repairing existing installation) helped but I still got the "not genuine windows" warning until I changed the date back to the correct date.

              Thank you, Microsoft! :(

            • Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this? (Score:5, Informative)

              by Zemran (3101) on Thursday June 08 2006, @02:06AM (#15492855) Homepage Journal
              The skanky copies of XP have a prog that fires randomly generated license codes at the server until it finds one that works. That means that when a skanky copy works a genuine copy ceases to work. It is simply a matter of who gets there first. With all these skanky copies using up so many genuine license codes it is not surprising that so many people are getting pissed off. Despite what the post further down says I have tried this out and found the prog worked well and did not cause any noticable delay. That is not to say that I advocate the use of such progs and in fact I personally would not use XP on a machine that is actually connected to the internet and only use Linux for the net except to try certain things out.

          • I am running... (Score:5, Interesting)

            by Belial6 (794905) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @11:09PM (#15492365) Homepage
            I am running 3 copies of WinXP, and own 5 legal licenses. I still don't want MS invading my privacy. If the only thing your worried about is whether it annoys you or not, you shouldn't mind your neighbor putting a web cam in your shower as long as he covers the little red light.

      • Re:Old News (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 07 2006, @08:49PM (#15491719)
        WTF? This isn't old news. Every time I have downloaded this to do installations on the computers we setup at work it says very clearly it performs a "one time check". When did "one time check" become every day? Microsoft is fucking scum.

        • Marketing opportunity (Score:5, Interesting)

          by zCyl (14362) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @10:51PM (#15492283)
          And how long until their regular check-in procedure for whether or not your computer is running legal copies of software morphs into a marketing opportunity by linking your ip address to your windows registration for tracking purposes? It would be the ultimate cookie, since it could essentially link every Windows user on the internet to the purchaser of the windows license, no matter where the computer moves to. Companies would leap all over this database in backroom deals, since it could allow advertisers or other companies to know the full identity of users the moment they bring up a page.

  • Whoa! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rahrens (939941) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @08:24PM (#15491594)
    Just one more reason NOT to use Windows as my operating system!

  • I'm protected. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 07 2006, @08:25PM (#15491598)
    *wraps computer in tin foil and duct tape*

    BRING IT ON!!!

  • XP Phone Home! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 07 2006, @08:25PM (#15491601)
    XP Phone Home!

  • Ethereal anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by caryw (131578) <carywiedemann AT gmail DOT com> on Wednesday June 07 2006, @08:26PM (#15491602) Homepage
    Anyone sniff out the offending packets yet? I'm sure they can't be too hard to identify. Probably simple HTTP posts.

    If nobody has I'll sniff anything going to Microsoft's Class B (207.46.*.*) later tonight.
    --
    From Northern Virginia? Visit Fairfax Underground [fairfaxunderground.com]! (Just added: Fairfax County wiki, need submissions)

    • Re:Ethereal anyone? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Crazyscottie (947072) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @09:08PM (#15491822)
      Or better yet, you can just prevent those packets from ever reaching their destination.

      The DOS command route -p add 207.46.0.0 mask 255.255.0.0 [192.168.0.254] (replace the address in brackets with a random address on your current subnet) will permanently route all would-be "phone home" packets to the random address that you specified.
       
      ... You could also, of course, use a firewall, but where's the fun in that? ;-)

    • Re:Ethereal anyone? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Billly Gates (198444) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @09:15PM (#15491852) Homepage Journal
      Its been known for years since NT4 about the Windows Update manager.

      I have seen it with the NT Server Network manager (I think that was it?) that sniffed out the packets. I remember reading how to enable your firewall to block it. ITs been awhile since I read about it but its old news.

  • Ooops! (Score:5, Funny)

    by kozumik (946298) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @08:28PM (#15491612)
    I guess they forgot to disclose that in the EULA. Honest mistake, stuff happens. Now let's go back to not worrying about DRM or Net Neutrality because Big Bussiness is looking out for our best interests.
  • My moms computer which was bought from Best Buy and NEVER had windows re-installed on it was determined by Microsoft to be "not genuine". What fucking bullshit, I never was a Microsoft hater before that even though I used OS X, but calling my mom a criminal even though she isnt is just plain fucking bullshit. Microsoft, you made me a hater, though out of principle I refuse to use "M$"

    • Re:This happened to my moms computer yesterday (Score:5, Informative)

      by oscartheduck (866357) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @08:37PM (#15491654)
      Just be aware that there's a piece of malware going around that performs this function also. It looks like a microsoft box, comes up before you sign in and claims that your copy of windows is not genuine.

      • Re:This happened to my moms computer yesterday (Score:5, Interesting)

        by spectecjr (31235) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @09:30PM (#15491902) Homepage
        This happened to my Uncle's computer yesterday - Uncle Sam that is. The WinBlows PC that is my email machine popped up the "This copy of Windows is not genuine" tag yesterday. This is on a major DoD site that has Everything legit, monitored, and locked up. It locked the system down so that I could not access the system with either the CAC card/PIN method nor the username/password means.

        The Genuine Advantage tool doesn't lock your system. It just doesn't let you download cool freebies (at this time).

        You got hit by something else. Upthread someone said that there's some spyware which masquerades as the Genuine Advantage system, and *does* lock your system down.

  • Talks daily to whose computer? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Entropy (6967) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @08:31PM (#15491630)
    TFA says "your computer", but aren't all Windows installs "my computer" on the desktop? Shouldn't it say "your my computer"? Or is it "my your computer"?

    Ah screw it! And screw Microsoft, too.

  • OMG! Everyday?! (Score:5, Funny)

    by creimer (824291) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @08:32PM (#15491635) Homepage
    I knew my PC was cheating on me after I got a Mac. But Microsoft...

  • ...the hell? (Score:5, Funny)

    by AWhiteFlame (928642) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @08:41PM (#15491678) Homepage
    Here at Microsoft, we care about the Customer Experience. As a result, we've taken the following measures to make sure your experience is as pleasant and beneficial to you as possible.

    - Our new operating system, Windows Vista, requires only the best high-end hardware so that, even on a system well beyond the power you should ever need, you'll still get the true Windows Experience(TM)

    - The new Windows Media Player 11 features all-new and exclusive DRM, or Degradation Resistment Technology by Microsoft, which not only provides wonderful sound in the new and improved WMA format, but protects your rights as well.

    - Our operating systems now report back with system information and other information which we feel should be collected from your system at any given time to improve your computing experience.

    Microsoft: Where do we want to take you today?
  • I've discovered a patch which disables Windows' "phone home" reporting. It's a fairly large download [ubuntu.com], but it seems to work.

    • Re:Yawn (Score:5, Insightful)

      by sweetooth (21075) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @08:37PM (#15491652) Homepage
      A safety feature that it doesn't need. Genuine Advantage only needs to be checked once. Upon verifying your Windows install it should never communicate with Microsoft unless specifically asked to do so. Doing anything else is highly suspicious and bad form. Failing to put this communication information in the EULA is also bad, but is likely an oversight on someones part so can probably be forgiven, we all make mistakes.

      • Re:Yawn (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Agent Green (231202) * on Wednesday June 07 2006, @09:21PM (#15491870) Homepage
        Microsoft doesn't really give a shit about the single-use, single-pc key so much. The whole crux of the Genuine Advantage thing is to keep an eye on the corporate volume licensing keys.

        If a corp. license gets out into the wild, it's going to spread like mad (duh). With all those updated PCs phoning home on a daily basis, Microsoft should be quick to get wise to whose key just slipped out and put the kibosh on it.

        How many people had the FCKGW key before that got pulled in SP1? :)

    • Re:Yawn (Score:5, Insightful)

      by collectivescott (885118) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @08:43PM (#15491687)
      Regarding point 1: My copy of windows checks time.nist.gov, not microsoft. In addition, however, I was asked before this function was enabled, and I can disable it at will.

      Regarding point 2: Where is the safety switch for internet explorer? I'm sure IE causes way more "computer explosions" than genuine advantage.

      Let's be honest here. A phone-home capability in genuine advantage is suspicious, given the function of the genuine advantage program. It makes people running pirated versions of windows especially nervous. The bottom line is, if it isn't a spy tool, there ought to be an option to disable it. If it is a spy tool, get it the fuck off my computer. Period.

      • Re:Yawn (Score:5, Insightful)

        by StikyPad (445176) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @09:02PM (#15491782) Homepage
        It makes people running pirated versions of windows especially nervous.

        Boo hoo.. poor people running pirated copies.

        If they're too stupid/lazy/cocky to keep themselves isolated by a good firewall, then I have no sympathy.

        There are plenty of valid reasons why this "feature," or at least the lack of disclosure, is immoral. Protecting piracy is not one of them.

    • Re:So what? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by BFaucet (635036) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @09:14PM (#15491849) Homepage
      A) They didn't tell anyone the software would do this.

      B) We are supposed to trust MS that this thing is only asking MS if it needs to be shut off? What the hell kind of reason is that to phone home?

      C) Why the hell does this software need to be running all the time? It's taking resources doing nothing but asking MS if it should be shut off?! Why can't it be started up and shut off only when needed?

      D) There have been false reports of pirated software. Will this software one day just decide you're using a pirated version and kill your machine? Some people depend on their computers to feed themselves. If this software screws up and kills a machine and the owner has several days of downtime who's going to compensate them?

      E) If you really think MS (or any large corporation for that matter) is above abusing phone home programs you got blinders on. Why should we trust large companies with our private informaton while not trusting actual people with our social security number?

      F) The reason megacorps and the people who run them are so successful is always a combination of luck, smarts, and ability to stab people in the back and laugh about it. I'm not saying large corporations should be ended, but they should be approached with caution. They will try to get away with whatever the hell they can. It's the consumer's job to keep them in check... Well it's the goverment's job too, but they seem to be doing a shit job to say the least.

          • Re:Surprise ??? (Score:5, Insightful)

            by hahiss (696716) on Wednesday June 07 2006, @10:38PM (#15492217) Homepage
            All ubuntu does is use the network time protocol [wikipedia.org] to sync your system's clock so that it always reports the right time. There are many public ntp servers that you could configure your computer to use instead, or you could turn it off pretty simply.

            In contrast, the ``phoning home" talked about in the article involved sending information TO Microsoft about your computer but for their purposes.

      • Re:WgaTray.exe (Score:5, Interesting)

        by MikeBabcock (65886) <mtb-slashdot@mikebabcock.ca> on Thursday June 08 2006, @01:01AM (#15492738) Homepage Journal
        Don't forget that the Windows firewall software (which will supposedly protect outbound traffic as well as inbound in Vista) allows software to change the rules dynamically and without asking you.

        I looked for a very long time on McAfee's site to figure out how the ASAP intranet updating software worked so I could set appropriate firewall rules. Then I noticed that with a fully locked-down PC, it was already receiving said updates and connecting to other locked-down PCs for them.

        Great, I thought, the Windows firewall really is useless.

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