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'Destroyed' Hard Drive Found At Flea Market

Posted by CowboyNeal on Thu Jun 01, 2006 06:01 PM
from the geek-squad-dark-sides dept.
Billosaur writes "From Yahoo News comes this tidbit about a couple who got a very shocking phone call. Henry and Roma Gerbus received a phone call from a man named Ed claiming he had purchased their old hard drive at a flea market. They had previously taken their computer to Best Buy to have the hard drive replaced and were told that the store would destroy it. Now it has turned up at a flea market, still containing their personal information, such as bank account numbers and Social Security numbers. The Gerbus' are a little perplexed and are very worried about identity theft."
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  • Scandalous! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ackthpt (218170) * on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:02PM (#15449483) Homepage Journal

    Memo to store managers throughout the country: "Rotate a new batch of minimum-wage slaves into all positions, which demand technical skills and adherence to moral and ethical code, post haste!"

    Gad! Whatever could motivate people who are compensated so well to scrap computers and sell parts at a flea market? I shall have to dwell further upon this great paradox this weekend at my summer cottage in the Hamptons.

    • Re:Scandalous! (Score:5, Informative)

      by zuzulo (136299) on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:32PM (#15449669) Homepage
      As a public service, links to three excellent, free, software based HDD wiping utilities. The first is even open source ...

      Darik's Boot and Nuke [sourceforge.net]
      Active Kill Disk [killdisk.com]
      PC Inspector [pcinspector.de]

      There should never be an excuse for selling or transfering ownership of a hard drive with pre-existing data when there are fast, free, and convienient utilities that can effectively remove all data without damaging HDD functionality. Physical destruction is of course, the most secure method of permanently wiping data, but for most folks good software based data destruction should be more than sufficient.

      Obligatory disclaimer: I am in no way associated with any of the above products except as a satisfied user.
      • There should never be an excuse for selling or transfering ownership of a hard drive with pre-existing data when there are fast, free, and convienient utilities that can effectively remove all data without damaging HDD functionality. Physical destruction is of course, the most secure method of permanently wiping data, but for most folks good software based data destruction should be more than sufficient.

        This is true, but if your computer hardware dies in a way that the computer won't boot or power on at a

    • Bizarre, When i brought my sister's POS into best buy they wouldn't even dispose of the bad dvd burner. Disposal apparently costs a considerable amount so policy by default is to return all defective parts to the 'owner' and have them dispose of it.

      Whatever could motivate people who are compensated so well to scrap computers and sell parts at a flea market?

      most likely someone who regularly sells at flea markets networked into a bunch of said stores and said 'if you want quick cash i'll buy junk computers fo
      • Re:Scandalous! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by imsabbel (611519) on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:26PM (#15449639)
        Its quite easy.

        Erasing the data would have been work.
        Setting it up again to be able to sell it as a "working computer" would have been more work.

        Just taking it and selling it as is: minimum work.
      • Re:Scandalous! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by ackthpt (218170) * on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:40PM (#15449712) Homepage Journal
        What could motivate them to sell it is one thiing, but what motivated them to sell it with the data on is surely harder to explain.

        You're assuming Best Buy sells off this scrap. In reality they should be turning it over to a disposal company (which, in theory, could sell the parts at flea market if not the most upstanding of ethical standards are adhered to.) But as the drive should have had Holes Drilled In it smells more like the monkey in charge of that job at BB chose not to, which strongly suggests it was they who pawned the drive, not corporate masters.

        Of course in a moment of doubt, always lean towards the simplest answer: the guy who did it was a really stupid mofo.

        Stupid, certainly. Unethical, most definitely. He or she should be sacked and then turned over to authorities for prosecution on theft, sale of stolen property, etc.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:04PM (#15449495)
    Anyone that is taking a PC to Best Buy for a HDD replacement is probably sending money to Prince Abul Smith of Nigeria anyways.
  • by crummyname (977083) on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:04PM (#15449503)
    If the information on the hard drive was so sensitive, why didn't the couple destroy it themselves? Even if Best Buy did destroy it, an employee would have had access to it anyway before its destruction. That's a security risk either way.
    • by ackthpt (218170) * on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:11PM (#15449545) Homepage Journal
      If the information on the hard drive was so sensitive, why didn't the couple destroy it themselves? Even if Best Buy did destroy it, an employee would have had access to it anyway before its destruction. That's a security risk either way.

      It's called: "Misplaced Trust in Corporate America"

      Why, just look at these words which follow, meant to calm and sooth the worried customer:

      "Our company values and places the utmost importance on maintaining the privacy of our customers. We will fully investigate these allegations."
      They no doubt came from some tome of boilerplate Corporate Communications and Public Relations.

      The real translation behind the scenes is doubtless anything less than a fast call to the law firm Best Buy retains to see how much they could be sued for and another call to the PR department to get the above phrase looked up in the Table of Contents and issued to media outlets. Meanwhile in the board room the executives are probably all bent over, like a circular conga-line holding covers over the arses of those in front of them.

        • Proper Planning (Score:4, Interesting)

          by ackthpt (218170) * on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:33PM (#15449675) Homepage Journal
          Most likely, but then the "cats out of the bag","the horse has left the barn". What should have been done wasn't. Now weither that was due to corporate neglect, or employee neglect isn't known.

          Here's the problem: A low paid employee, rather than drill holes in a drive, took it home and sold it off at a flea market. It's a small object of possibly (depending upon contents) very great value.

          Where are the controls to prevent such action taking place? Consider the bank teller -- not likely a very highly paid employee, yet thousands of dollars in coin and currency pass through their hands every day. Banks have worked out procedures to ensure their employees remain honest, whether balancing their drawers, surveillance cameras, or limiting how much they may hold in at their station at any given time (i.e. if Bill Gates walks in with a suitcase full of money, the teller must turn the large deposit over to a bank officer.)

          Clearly as things of great risk assume different (smaller) dimensions people in charge have not adapted their procedures. This is a failure of Best Buy at the corporate level, not just some store. They need these items to be handled with full accountability.

    • by Frogbert (589961) <frogbert@@@gmail...com> on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:16PM (#15449580)
      Perhaps because they didn't know what a "hard drive" was, save for the box that came with their computer (the screen).
    • Because most of the people I do computer work for think their "hard drive" is the whole computer.
    • by sysadmn (29788) <sysadmn@noSpAM.gmail.com> on Thursday June 01 2006, @07:02PM (#15449875) Homepage
      It's not at all unlikely they took a "broken" computer into Best Buy. Best Buy told them it was the hard drive (meaning it almost surely wasn't the hard drive), and replaced it for them. They asked about the old one, and were assured it would be destroyed. Would you have asked to take it home before reading this story?
      • Would you have asked to take it home before reading this story?

        Nope, becuase I wouldn't have taken my computer to them in the first place. That said, the average computer user is completely ignorant about the actual innards of a computer, let alone how to wipe a drive clean (if their computer would even pass POST and allow them to boot off a floppy). Heck, they may not even be aware that there are discreet parts in the computer, one of which stores all of your data. To many people, the innards of a PC ar
    • Because they wanted all their data on their new hard drive.

      Somehow I doubt they'd be pleased to give Best Buy their Windows XP box with their applications and data + $$$ just to be handed back a computer with a big blank drive and no OS or a clean XP install.

      Their alternative was to back everything up and destroy the hard drive themselves. But then if they could do that they'd have fitted the drive themselves anyway.
  • by Kesch (943326) on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:06PM (#15449517)
    If you want something wiped correctly, smash it yourself.

    Even if Best Buy assured me they would destroy it, I would still grab a couple utilities to write nonsense bits onto the entire drive several times.

    Of course, my biggest question is who is silly enough to throw out working storage space? My inner packrat insists that precious Gigabytes should coveted.
    • Of course, my biggest question is who is silly enough to throw out working storage space? My inner packrat insists that precious Gigabytes should coveted.

      Packrat?

      Pfffft.

      I've only recently thrown out (destroyed) 150 Mb MFM drives.

      (though I do tend to save any 0.1" IDC jumpers on them).

    • by Anonymous Coward
      Even if Best Buy assured me they would destroy it, I would still grab a couple utilities to write nonsense bits onto the entire drive several times.

      So, you figure installing Windows 98 two or three times would fit the bill?
  • Why do people try to do physical things to "destroy" magnetic media. You would think that Best Buy would have some software to erase the data (writing random 0/1's repeatedly). I suppose if they were replacing the hard drive Best Buy might have figured it wouldn't work, but at least they should have used a strong magnetic field.
  • Why (Score:5, Funny)

    by User 956 (568564) on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:08PM (#15449528) Homepage
    Why would you pay a store to destroy something like a hard drive? Destroying it *yourself* is clearly way more fun.
  • by a_nonamiss (743253) on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:08PM (#15449530)
    ...do it yourself [killdisk.com].
  • by syousef (465911) on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:08PM (#15449531) Journal
    "I'm not leaving myself open to identity theft," said Gerbus.

    Quick! Close the barn door! The horse has bolted!

    If the drive was being destroyed the store had no reason not to hand it over. He should have asked for it, or at the very least asked to be present at it's destruction.
  • by TLouden (677335) on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:11PM (#15449547)
    Isn't it just great when your comppetition fucks themselves for you, saves so much on PR.
  • by digitalhermit (113459) on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:36PM (#15449692) Homepage
    I send back, on average, one drive every few months under warranty. Most times the drives have failed so I can't even low-level format it. I've always wondered what happens to these drives. Are they destroyed? Re-used? As drives get bigger and more and more files are placed on them, it's not surprising that people may *think* the drives are clean when they are not. And I know it's easy to blame the folks for letting the drive out of their possession, but think about it: they were told it was to be destroyed; people put files on their drives (that's what they're for); if the store offered to "dispose" of their old PC (many places do this), there's a reasonable expectation (especially if they're told) that their data would be destroyed, if not the hardware.
    • Most times the drives have failed so I can't even low-level format it.

      The last time I had a drive too screwed up to wipe that was under warranty, fortunatly a tech came onsite for the replacement (business). He agreed that since the drive was dead it would be OK to finish destroying it while he watched. I'm sure sandpaper on the platters followed by a propane torch placed any data recovery cost beyond the value of the data.

      It should be possible to arrange something like that for bad drives, much as bo

  • Former Employee.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jangell (633044) on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:38PM (#15449702)
    As a former BestBuy/GeekSquad employee I can tell you that the company procedure was: 1.) Drill holes in hard drive. 2.) Send Computer to Best Buy Service Center to be discarded. When a customer would bring a computer in to be recycled I would open the cover with them standing there. I'd remove the hard drive and take a drill and put multiple 1/4 inch holes through the hard drive. I'd have the customer watch me do this and drill until they were happy. After that I would put the hard drive back into the computer and send it to a service center. 90% of your GeekSquad/BestBuy Employees have no idea what they are doing. They are also only getting paid $10 / hr. Don't expect much. There are one or two in each store that generally know more then you'd expect. But they are also only getting paid $10 / hr. If you want great service, It helps to have boobs. I'm not joking.
    • by rsilvergun (571051) on Thursday June 01 2006, @07:39PM (#15450108)
      probably 80% of /. users have boobs, and we _still_ get lousy service!
    • When a customer would bring a computer in to be recycled I would open the cover with them standing there. I'd remove the hard drive and take a drill and put multiple 1/4 inch holes through the hard drive.

      I'm sorry, but I find this hard to believe!

      You use a drill with a drill bit designed to go through metal and it's platters. Were you using safety glassess/goggles? How far was the customer in relation do you doing this work? Did you mount the drive in a vice? What did you place the drive on in case the dril
  • by itunes keith (900814) on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:38PM (#15449703)
    I do not think this is the couple's fault at all. Best Buy supposedly was serviced to erase/destroy the hard drive. In a perfect world, people would take care of destroying their own data. Apparently, in this case, the couple seemingly didn't know how, so they hired Best Buy to take care of this - which is (usually) the next most responsible choice.
  • by E8086 (698978) on Thursday June 01 2006, @07:13PM (#15449948)
    I've never sold off or threw out or RMAed any of my hard drives. I give them a few good software whipes and use as paperweights or get an external case and there's another backup drive.
    HDDs are around 50 cents or less per GB. Except those people who do their hardware shopping at BestBuy and arn't reading this.
    If you really have to get it replaced look for someone who will let you keep the platters and just send back some of it. If they exist, have to keep the "refurbished" industry in business.
  • by thogard (43403) on Thursday June 01 2006, @07:44PM (#15450147) Homepage
    If I have a disk with a bad bearing or head crash, I have to send the drive back intact to claim my warranty and so I'm trusting my data to someone else. At work thats a violation of our security policy so we don't ever send disks back unless we are very sure what data was on it which effectively means drives that died within a few hours of being installed in a machine.

    What needs to happen is the S.M.A.R.T. software on the drive needs to be a bit smarter and allow the diagnostics tools to coordinate with the manufacturers web site so that the company is sure the disk is in fact defective and they know the cause. If they determine that they don't want the disk back anyway, then let the consumer dispose of it. If they can repair the disk, then its most likely not an internal problem so if its repairable, the data should still be on it when it gets back.
  • by caller9 (764851) on Thursday June 01 2006, @08:16PM (#15450342)
    How did this thing end up at a flea market? I can think of a few scenarios where the BBY employee was unscrupulously selling broken or even working equipment at a flea market, but I kind-of doubt that. Not saying it's impossible just like to present a more likely scenario.

    This is the fast-food of computer repair so the guy probably took out the old drive which reported several bad sectors in scandisk, dropped it in the trash and forgot about it. Later that day/week a bum that regularly dives their dumpster for crap to sell at a flea market did his normal job. Some dude out for the cheapest possible hard drive buys it then looks to see what is on it, because he's a perv and expects amature porn. Then because he rode the short bus he calls the previous owner to admit guilt.

    Why is this hapless joe who accidentally mounted a hard drive then scoured it's contents closely enough to find social security numbers and the like guilty? It's like walking down a street and seeing a house with a door open. You can see the open door, and anything plainly visible from the street because of the open door. The second you walk through that door, you have trespassed.

    But forget that amature porn collector.

    Best Buy could solve all of this by issuing a 2lb hammer to all employees. It would help morale by providing an outlet for the rage incited by the latest management-speak directive from coorporate or the GM.
  • Nothing new (Score:4, Interesting)

    by DCheesi (150068) on Thursday June 01 2006, @08:26PM (#15450402) Homepage
    Several years ago, the small company worked for used a local mom & pop outfit to buy & repair the office computers. This particular shop made a point of offering "great deals" on refurbished and used equipment. Of course we bought only the best, all-new PCs from them...

    Well, one cow-orker's HDD failed, and the aforementioned computer shop swapped it out for a new one. A little while later, we got a new employee in and ordered a new PC for him. When the "new" PC's C: drive was examined, it turned out to still have the first cow-orker's data on it!

    I don't know which was worse, the fact that sensitive company data had been potentially exposed, or the fact that they sold us a used, known-bad hard drive as new?!
  • Geek Squad (Score:5, Interesting)

    by amattas (978636) <anthony@ m a t t as.net> on Thursday June 01 2006, @08:29PM (#15450421) Homepage
    I actually used to work for the geeksquad and there was a lot of problems there, so I will list them. 1. Employees took parts from computers we threw out home, including hard drives, and the managers really didn't care. 2. Employees copied customers files from their computers onto the store computers (aka, found porn on the customers computers, often of customers or of the people they knew and kept it). 3. Employees often didn't fix problems completely because they thought it was too much work. 4. And to top it off, I often found managers browsing through the files that the employees kept and thought it was the coolest thing in the world.
    • Re:SSN? (Score:3, Insightful)

      Tax records? Personal finance records?
    • Re:SSN? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Detritus (11846) on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:06PM (#15449514) Homepage
      Someone who has electronic account statements from their bank and/or brokerage.
    • On tax documents, perhaps. I know I do.
    • Anybody who has to enter it on a web page (i.e. college, bank, whatever) and has it stored in their cache.
    • Re:SSN? (Score:5, Funny)

      by plams (744927) on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:07PM (#15449519) Homepage
      I had, but luckily it got mf2lro8sw03ufvnsq034jfowr18f3cszc20vmw'd.
    • Many people use turboxtax/etc... Tax Software. It stores a backup of your return (and SSNs) in pdf format - easily readable by anyone with access to the drive. Is it smart to leave it on the hard drive? No - but then again, turning in your PC without asking for the parts replaced back isn't smart either.
    • Re:SSN? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by nuOpus (463845) on Thursday June 01 2006, @06:17PM (#15449588)
      Ahhhh now this is by far the dumbest comment I have heard. Is he joking? Or does he not know that personal computers as well as business computers are used to assist users in managing things like oh ... taxes, perform banking, store financial records, act as an archive for scanned documents, so on and so forth.

      Or ... does this person think computers are used purely for playing games and watching a blue and red bar move as you defrag a hard drive? Or maybe people play games with folders to see how straight they can make the icons?

      In my world, computers are used for far more than entertainment, toys and gimmicks. It is a way for people to manage their day to day lives, simplify complex tasks or just act as a way to get away from a paper based society. Well, they can play games just as easy too, but you get the point.

      Hard drives are often a wealth of private information and it is up to the person disposing of it to ensure that it cannot be read.

      And to the people getting ready to reply with "well that is the problem with computers" or "never keep personal information on a HD". It is akin to countless people (yes there are many) throwing documents like credit card bills or ANY paper information with private information in the trash. Ultimately it is up to the person to ensure he/she SHREDS the documents FIRST before trashing. This is no different than electronic media.
      • Re:SSN? (Score:3, Insightful)

        I just find it pretty shocking that Best Buy doesn't seem to have any set policy regarding handling of sensitive data.

        I work for a small non-profit that refurbishes used computers for re-use, and we wipe every hard drive with an 11-pass system. (Probably overkill, DoD specifies just 7). Every volunteer who works on the computers is trained in how to do it, and in the importance of doing so. It doesn't take much person-time: Hook up the hard drive to a computer, boot from the Knoppix CD, and enter the comm
    • So you are actually suggesting people open the hard drive and run a rare earth magnetic over the platters? Because anything short of an MRI is going to do jack squat to a modern hard drive. I have dropped a 1" cube nneodymiun magnet on a hard drive and it did nothing.

      I have had friends try erasing hard drives with a bulk tape eraser. One failed to spin up. The other two would boot up fine and still had all thier data.
        • 4,000 to 6,000 Gauss might not be enough. One of Quantum's partners claims you need 7,000 Oersteds (Gauss) to erase 300GB disks. link [quantum.com.hk] The newest generation of vertical write HDD's use media with even higher magnetic coercivity and so would require correspondingly higher magnetic fields to erase.
    • You'd need a magnet far more powerful than most people have access to. Most people don't even know that there are two quite strong permanent magnets inside the drive itself used to control the motion of the head assemblies over the platters. I've taken drives apart from lots of vintages and while the platters get thinner (and once made of metal now made of a glass like substance), the support electronics get smaller and lighter, the magnets are always the same. And so strong that they can be difficult to re