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China Bans Running Your Own Email Server

Posted by Zonk on Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:39 AM
from the too-many-of-those-around-anyway dept.
Erwin_D writes "Under the guise of banning spam, China has ruled that running your own e-mail server has been banned, unless you have a license. To qualify for such a license, an 'e-mail service provider' must abide by some chilling rules: all e-mail must be stored for two months, and e-mail with discussing vaguely defined subject as network security or information security may not be transmitted. While the rules contains all the good measures we would all like to see to combat spam, such as prohibiting open relays and outlawing zombie network, the law is also geared toward controlling free speech. From the article: 'I believe that the intent to have an antispam regulation was a good one ... Unfortunately, it seems like during the policy formulation process, it got hijacked and went to one extreme.'"
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  • by Blrfl (46596) on Friday April 14 2006, @11:43AM (#15130285) Homepage
    That's how it is in China. There are many, many people there who have no idea that Tienamen Square ever happened...
    • by Vellmont (569020) on Friday April 14 2006, @11:59AM (#15130459)
      There was a really excellent episode of frontline [pbs.org] that aired this week that covered that very topic. Anyone over the age of 20 or so surely remembers the guy who stopped the tank in Tienamen Square. Of course if you google for "Tienamen Square" in China you get no images of Tank Man. In the rest of the world you get multiple images.
      • Google.cn image search for tiananmen and go to page 5 and you'll see images of tank man.
          • Well, you have the DMCA which was introduced by the US Goverment. Pretty high level of influence when you consider that private entities can force search engines to remove certain results.
      • Along those lines, does anybody know if there are public proxy servers in China that allow people in the rest of the world to see what the internet is like behind the great firewall?
          • I believe that the grandparent was talking about doing it the other way around: letting us use a proxy that is behind the great firewall in order for us to see exactly what they're missing out on.

        • I think what happened at Tiananman Square was a tragedy, but now imagine what would happen if you were to stop a US tank.. Even cops could shoot you if you didn't "freeze" right away.

          Well, I guess I'm not so jaded yet that I think the US military would actually run over a single unarmed man after all the craziness had mostly died down.

          I'd say that tank man was a troll while the camera man was just waiting to catch the pictures.

          That's really hard to believe. The camera man was a western journalist filming i
    • Not only that, only 111 million Chinese use the Internet [cia.gov] out of a population of 1.3 billion. Most people in China are really not going to notice this or care.
    • And a London mayor that knowingly trivializes it [thisislocallondon.co.uk].

      No, I didn't vote for him.
  • by fortinbras47 (457756) on Friday April 14 2006, @11:45AM (#15130305)
    Why should this surprise anyone?
    • Why news should be surprising?

      If you consider "news" as a revenue source, then "yes", the "surprisier" the better.

      If you consider news to be news, then they do not have to.
    • by cyber-dragon.net (899244) on Friday April 14 2006, @12:33PM (#15130816)
      Correction... China is still a dictatorship... according to communist theory (which china does not practice) free speech and criticism of the government is NESSISARY, not something to be stifled.

      Yell at them for their policy all you want, but get out of the cold war era and blame them correctly. I will use one of my favorite quotes from an American president:

      "How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
      • I don't know if I should laugh or cry when I hear this kind of oversimplified nonsense - it displays the same level of understanding as the average Hollywood movie's understanding of history, science and reality in general (ie. whatever sells the movie or sounds good in a slogan must be true).

        Let's take Marx - he lived in an era where belonging to the working class meant that you were desperately poor, and where the middle and upper classes believed that different classes were almost different species; rich
          • Marx was the single most influential economists of all times. He is the most widely read economist. His theories have penetrated just about all aspects of modern business.

            The primary theme of Das Kapital was the various ways in which the market undermines itself. A large number of business books have picked up on this theme and essentially teach business leaders that their goal is to undermine the market (or bust). In the dotcom market, you saw a large number of dotbombs play this game. To dominate the ma
    • I have to agree with OP, how is this a troll?
      China =is= a communist dictatorship. And I could care less about the communism, keyword is /dictatorship/.
      This isn't a troll, it just happens to be true.
  • by Osrin (599427) * on Friday April 14 2006, @11:46AM (#15130323) Homepage
    ... is the need for a license to run a mail server in a personal environment. Don't most ISPs in the western world have similar government imposed retention and intrusion legislation that they have to abide by? I see old emails delivered to courts from ISPs on a regular basis in the press US and European press.

    Maybe somebody could clarify US and UK law for me.
    • by gentimjs (930934) on Friday April 14 2006, @11:50AM (#15130370) Journal
      The main problem isnt the retention crap .. its the "Ye shalt not transmit email which speaks poorly of $SUBJECT" style restrictions that are going to piss people off ....
    • yeah but this is "in China".

      if China didn't have driving licenses or passports and introduced them tomorrow, the headline on /. (2 weeks later) would be "China destroys right to move about".
    • Generally speaking...

      I've only seen ISP's keep short term backups. ie, mail server storage method completely dies and then backups are restored. I'm not wholly sure how long the rest of the industry keeps these, but I never kept them past a few weeks.

      Mail logs are generally kept for much longer...

      Now, I think you are refering to the regulations that were pending/passed/speculated regarding business mail for large companies. This is taken from the company rather then the ISP. I believe there were some regula
    • > ... is the need for a license to run a mail server in a personal environment. Don't most ISPs in the western world have similar government imposed retention and intrusion legislation that they have to abide by? I see old emails delivered to courts from ISPs on a regular basis in the press US and European press.
      >
      > Maybe somebody could clarify US and UK law for me.

      UK: Alpha test site. It's a "Voluntary Code of Practice on Data Retention" [wikipedia.org], for values of "voluntary" approaching the sort of stat


    • Don't most ISPs in the western world have similar government imposed retention and intrusion legislation that they have to abide by?

      I don't know about other governemnts, but there's certainly no data retention laws for ISPs in the United States. I'm not certain if email has been ruled to be covered by privacy laws, but I'd certainly hope so.

      There's some requirements about email for publically traded companies through a new law called Sarbanes-Oxley. Even that I'm not sure if there's specific requirements
    • [the only difference] is the need for a license to run a mail server in a personal environment

      For the vast majority of US households lucky enough to have better than dial up, the ISP forbids running "servers" of any kind. So there's no difference on that front except the penalties. In China, you will be put under then jail and your organs sold to the highest bidder for running anything like a press. In the US, right now, you will simply lose your connection to the network.

  • And... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Cherita Chen (936355) on Friday April 14 2006, @11:47AM (#15130334) Homepage
    This shouldn't come as a suprise to anyone. Remember this Wikipedia Blocked [wikipedia.org]
  • ... and e-mail with discussing vaguely defined subject as network security or information security may not be transmitted
    What does that mean? Was this story processed from Chinese using babelfish? Does anyone at /. edit or are they too busy writing stories justifying why they shouldn't bother editing?
  • i am sure we can eventually come up with a smarted way to eliminate/control spam. outright banning of any personal email servers is just ridiculous.

    before we know it, they would start banning sending snail mail, sending faxes, using phones - all in the name of quality control and eliminating spam.
  • by mrowton (828923) on Friday April 14 2006, @11:52AM (#15130383) Homepage
    From the article [vnunet.com]
    "China's new rules also prohibit use of email to discuss certain vaguely defined subjects related to 'network security' and ' information security', "

    From the regulation [isc.org.cn] that the article links to
    taking advantage of emails to engage in activities which are detrimental to network and information security is strictly prohibited in accordance with related laws.

    There is a big difference between "engaging in activities that are detrimental to information security" and "discussing information security"

    But with a title like "China Outlaws Outlook" are you really surprised that they are sensationalizing it.
  • Come again? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Vorondil28 (864578) <goodjearb@NospAM.gmail.com> on Friday April 14 2006, @12:00PM (#15130473) Homepage Journal
    ...and e-mail with discussing vaguely defined subject as network security or information security may not be transmitted.

    What you say? China set us up the bomb?

    Seriously though, is this a big surprise. No doubt it's a sad day for liberty in China, but with the Chicoms' history when it comes to the Internet, we had to see stuff like this coming.
  • by msauve (701917) on Friday April 14 2006, @12:05PM (#15130517)
    Under the guise of preventing spam, most US ISPs have decided that running your own e-mail server must be banned, unless you pay extra for a commercial account. They enforce this by blocking SMTP connections except to their own servers, which they do not provide SLA or privacy guarantees on.
  • by posterlogo (943853) on Friday April 14 2006, @12:07PM (#15130532)
    ...whereas us, with all our "freedom", find out that our government is spying on us only when some whistleblower exposes it. What, we've just learned that at AT&T, NSA has the potential to spy on ANY communications that go through the switches there. Does anyone really feel 100% shielded from our own government here in the US? Atleast it's all out in the open there, pretty much. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
  • by night_flyer (453866) on Friday April 14 2006, @12:09PM (#15130559) Homepage
    why do *WE* keep financing these people?
  • hijacked? (Score:3, Funny)

    by nurb432 (527695) on Friday April 14 2006, @12:12PM (#15130587) Homepage Journal
    This is china remember. This is how things work over there.

    2 points for them trying to combat spam.
  • Whatever, it's their country and if they want to oppress themselves all the power to them. More so this is a draft n'est pas? How many american bills when drafted seemed daffy?

    It's entirely possible that this is

    [ ] Incorrect news
    [ ] Making the wrong conclusions
    [X] Jumping to conclusions
    [X] Flamebait
    [X] Copying another post, sorry I had to

    Personally I look forward to getting back to Canada and out of the USA so I can get the icky feeling off myself.

    Because Canada

    [ ] Is so much better
    [ ] Has less immigrants
    [X] Doesn't have Bush
    [X] Can tolerate more than one point of view
    [ ] A nation which enjoys equal protection under the law
    [ ] Has quality politicians
    [ ] Has Effective journalism
    [X] Has poutine

    Tom
  • Creeping freedoms (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BeanThere (28381) on Friday April 14 2006, @12:29PM (#15130771)

    Is this a sign of the increasing freedoms that politicians argue(d) liberalised trade with China would bring about?

  • Same law in Denmark (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Per Abrahamsen (1397) on Friday April 14 2006, @12:36PM (#15130849) Homepage
    > all e-mail must be stored for two months

    except here it is part of an "anti-terrorism" law package.
  • Workaround (Score:3, Insightful)

    by VincenzoRomano (881055) on Friday April 14 2006, @12:55PM (#15131044) Homepage Journal
    running your own e-mail server (in China) has been banned
    So you just need to run your own email server outside China. It will cost you a mere buch of bucks a year.
    • "Altough this raises several other issues, this is THE SOLUTION to spam."

      Hmm... In that case, don't you think the cure seems to be worse than the disease? Reminds me of the New Hampshire license plates... "Live Free or Die".

      S

    • Because as we of course all know, no malware anywhere ever ships itself with it's own SMTP server in order to act as an open relay or mail exchanger. All zombie networks and open relays out there are simply people wanting to run their own email server and failing.

      Right?
    • Re:In other news (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Sure, until this happens everywhere else. Make no mistake about it. This is what all governments and corporations want. They want to keep their grubby little hands on your data and money. They don't want you to provide your own services. They also don't want your data stored, processed and transmitted by anyone but them.

      End Of Times!!
      • Sure, until this happens everywhere else. Make no mistake about it. This is what all governments and corporations want. They want to keep their grubby little hands on your data and money. They don't want you to provide your own services. They also don't want your data stored, processed and transmitted by anyone but them.

        The more they tighten their grip, the more (email) systems will slip through their fingers.
    • Re:In other news (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Guppy06 (410832) on Friday April 14 2006, @12:01PM (#15130486) Journal
      "in the worst case american webmail..."

      Like Yahoo, Hotmail and Gmail, whose parent companies have a presence in China and are more than willing to comply with China's censorship regime and turn people in?

      If you want free speech in China, you do not use an American company to do it with.
    • by pete6677 (681676) on Friday April 14 2006, @12:01PM (#15130478)
      You would be correct, if spammers didn't take measures to disguise their messages and get around spam filters. If people want their messages, fine. But forcing your "speech" on others is NOT constitutionally protected, especially if the material you are advertising is more often than not fraudulent.
    • This means that everyone has the right to express themselves. EVEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, THEY STILL HAVE THE RIGHT. Spam is a great example defining whose responsibility is it to determine what you hear?

      Spam isn't a free speech issue. Spam forces the burden of the cost onto the receiver, rather than the sender. It is exactly analagous to junk faxes, which cost very little to send but a great deal to receive.

      Marketers are welcome to send emails to those people that have given their permission. Spamme

    • by JerkBoB (7130) on Friday April 14 2006, @12:28PM (#15130754)
      Email addresses are effectively public domain - like standing out in public. It's the inbox owner who must decide what they want.

      That's stupid and dangerous. You've clearly never run a mail server of any real size. There is a very real and quantifiable cost to spam filtering. For an organization of any significant size (we're talking at least tens of thousands of email addresses), spam and virus filtering needs its own infrastructure. A lot of companies outsource to someone (e.g. Postini). That costs thousands (I know this, I am not talking out of my ass) of dollars every month. Even if the infrastructure is kept in-house, there is a significant up-front investment in hardware, plus the cost of staff to administer the spam/virus filtering infrastructre (if the org is big enough, this could be close to a full-time job). Not to mention the extra bandwidth costs when four spammers do a simultaneous distributed spam run, etc. etc.

      It's not enough to allow the "mailbox owner" (a term that dodges the fact that corporate email is owned by the corporation) to decide whether or not they want to use spam filtering. First of all, most end-users have no idea how to make it happen, second, the company has to pay for the disk to store the shit that users never clean out.

      Spam is not first-amendment-protected speech. If someone is standing on a soapbox yammering about their religion or hawking viagra or whatever, I can choose not to listen, and it doesn't cost me anything either way. Spam, on the other hand, does cost businesses a lot of money, and it costs the spammer virtually nothing. If spammers had to pay per recipient the way direct (postal) mailing marketers do, spam wouldn't be a problem.

      It's 2006. Why are we having this conversation? This was all debated and decided in the late 90s. Did you miss the memo?
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Certainly. However, you seem to forget that we may approve or disapprove without need of approval from China.
    • Why not just use instant messaging when dealing with a "touchy" subject? Or is that monitored also?

      If the US Government [unesco.org] can do it, I don't see why the Chinese can't monitor emails, IM, mobile phone calls, etc. I don't think anyone in China can believe that there's a safe medium for communication that the government won't tap.