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AOL Allegedly Censors 'Email Tax' Opponents
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:32 AM
from the dirty-pool dept.
from the dirty-pool dept.
Mediacitizen writes "AOL was accused yesterday of censoring email to AOL customers that included a link to a site opposing AOL's proposed 'email tax.' Over 300 people reported that they had tried sending AOL subscribers messages that contained a link to www.DearAOL.com, but received a bounceback message informing them that their email 'failed permanently.' After the DearAOL.com Coalition -- 600 organizations convened by Free Press, MoveOn and EFF -- notified the press of this blocking, AOL quickly cleared the opposition URL from their filters, alleging a 'software glitch.'"
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IT: Pay-per-email and the "Market Myth" 295 comments
Bennett Haselton has written a thoughtful piece on the latest developments in the pay-for-email schemes making the rounds from some of the big players in the world of AOL. This one is really worth your time, so please click on and read what he has to say.
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AOL alienating its customers... (Score:5, Interesting)
This does not bode well for the acceptance of e-mail tax. As if the general public wasn't against it in the first place.
Re:AOL alienating its customers... (Score:3, Informative)
Because you had doubts? AOL is a for-profit organization, not a charity. Corporations do the most heinous, immoral things if they can get away with it. When they can't get away with it, they don't do it, not because they're afraid to look bad, but because it displeases customers and therefore hurts the bottomline.
In short: it's all about money.
Urge everyone to Cancel their AOL subscription (Score:3, Informative)
It IS a software glitch (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:AOL alienating its customers... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:AOL alienating its customers... (Score:4, Informative)
I think MS certainly would...they've been accused of blocking GMail invites before, though they never admitted to doing it:
http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/is-hotmail-blocki
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/internet/0,39020369,39157
http://google.weblogsinc.com/2004/06/23/hotmail-b
Parent
Natural selection? Ha! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:AOL alienating its customers... (Score:5, Insightful)
AOL has to protect its members from all sorts of attacks, and included in these are phishing and URL redirection that often come from email solicitation. AOL could simply have had a filter that would not link to anything with AOL in the URL except from specific sources (you see where I'm going with this
Sure, there is always an air of Big Brother and evil corporations trying to oppress something
Parent
Re:AOL alienating its customers... (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you think any significant quantity of AOL's users care about things like this? There are two and only two things that will get AOL's attention: legislation/legal action or if really popular websites started to block AOL users from using their services. If MySpace blocked all traffic from AOL users until AOL scrapped their email tax and fired the person who blocked this email then (after the necessary lawsuits which AOL would ultimately lose) AOL would fire the person responsible for blocking these emails (or at least a very public scapegoat) and would scrap the email tax.
Ain't gonna happen though.
Parent
Re:AOL alienating its customers... (Score:4, Funny)
Come on, this is AOL we're talking about. I could actually believe it is a software glitch.
Note, I said "could".
Parent
Re:AOL alienating its customers... (Score:3, Funny)
You have to give them a credit. They did not say "dog ate the line from
Disclaimer. My filter is set to Funny:-6
YOU!!!! The Devil! (Score:5, Funny)
AOL Rep: Thank you for waiting on hold for 53 minutes listening to the same 20 second recording over and over, how may I help you?
ME: I'd like to cancel AOL.
AOL Rep: Okay, no problem*. (*This is a trick)
ME: Great.
AOL Rep: I need to get your screen name.
ME: It's AOLSucks29785. I called myself that because AOLSucks1 through AOLSucks29784 were already taken.
AOL Rep: Do you live at 5022 Pheasant Circle, the white house with the blue shutters and a green Toyota parked in the front? Was you last telephone bill for $36.17? Did you have sex two nights ago for 28 minutes and could stand to put a little bit more fiber in your diet?
ME: [nervously] Uhhh... yeah.
AOL Rep: Okay, I've got you pulled up in our system. For verification purposes, what's your mother's maiden name?
ME: Henderson.
AOL Rep: I'm sorry, that's not correct.
ME: Um, yeah it is.
AOL Rep: Not according to our records. Has it changed recently?
ME: No, it's my mother's goddamn maiden name. It's been the same, like, forever.
AOL Rep: Well that's not what our computer says.
ME: I don't care about that, her maiden name is Henderson!
AOL Rep: Maybe when we first asked you, you told us her middle name instead of her maiden name.
ME: Well, her middle name is Sue.
AOL Rep: Nope, that's not it either. Try it one more time. What's your mother's maiden name?
ME: HENDERSON!
AOL Rep: Well why didn't you say that in the first place? Why did you tell me her maiden name was Williams?
ME: I DIDN'T!!
AOL Rep: Sir, I need you to calm down and speak to me respectfully or I will end this conversation.
ME: Look, I just need to cancel my AOL account. And please, don't waste your time or mine trying to read me that stupid script to get me to stay? Okay? I went through it before. The one where you ask me what I use the Internet for, and I tell you, and then you tell me all the ways that AOL supposedly makes it easier... don't do that. I just want to cancel.
AOL Rep: That's not a problem at all.
ME: Good.
AOL Rep: I would hate if someone used a script on me too.
ME: Well, exactly.
AOL Rep: So may I ask what sorts of things you use the Internet for?
ME: Dammit, you're using the script on me.
AOL Rep: No, sir, I wasn't. I was just making friendly conversation.
ME: I didn't call for friendly conversation, I called to get you to cancel a $30.00 per month bill for dial-up Internet when I can get super-fast high speed Internet for $19.99 per month.
AOL Rep: I bet that makes it really easy to watch movies and music videos online!
ME: I suppose, but --
AOL Rep: Did you know that AOL has a movie and music video service for high-speed internet that --
ME: Are you out of your mind?
AOL Rep: For just a low monthly fee, you can keep AOL and use it with your high-speed Internet!
ME: Why on God's Green Earth would I do that?
AOL Rep: AOL is so easy to use!
ME: I don't need Playskool Internet on my computer. I am capable of using a normal web browser.
AOL Rep: But it's --
ME: Just cancel my damn subscription.
Of course, two months later, what shows up on my credit card? AOL, charging me for their super-cool high-speed internet product that I specifically told them I didn't want. And in closing, I hate you forever.
Parent
Re:YOU!!!! The Devil! (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Opposing Opinion (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, yeah, no kidding. Since when did the "public interest" pay AOL for anything? Unless there is a law which says AOL cannot filter its "own" servers, too bad. It is AOL's right to do anything like this it wants to.
Is this the best thing to do? Obviously not, however don't be shocked when it does happen. Unless you control your own email completely (from the ISP right down to the server) you are relying on someone else. And that someone else ultimately has their interests in mind before yours.
Now, do some companies care about your interest? Sure, but they are not going to place your interest above theirs, otherwise they will be out of business. Supressing propangda which might cost you money; I don't think any business wouldn't consider that; and most, if not all, would try it.
Re:Opposing Opinion (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not a legal expert, but is there any "common carrier" issue here? An implication that if they start censoring to suit their own purposes, they might end up being responsible for illegal activities that might happen to use their mail servers?
I guess it's kind of thorny, because a logical ext
Re:Opposing Opinion (Score:2)
> is there any "common carrier" issue here?
I think there is, but the resolution is not (currently) in favor of the consumer. For some reason, the companies that have the big bucks had a bigger voice in the Telecommuncations Bills than the consumers. Why is that?
Lessig had some typically apt comments [lessig.org].
Re:Opposing Opinion (Score:2, Insightful)
That sentence about the "public interest" is misleading, as well. Sure, AOL doesn't need the public interest in the way an elected official does, but if you replace " the public interest" with "demand" (both are "what the people want"), I think the irrationality of AOL's actions becomes clear.
Re:Opposing Opinion (Score:3, Insightful)
sorry, my bad
The future of "free speech" (Score:2)
Re:The future of "free speech" (Score:2)
[automatically interrupted/edited by AOL software]
[AOL, the future is here]
[Do you have AOL broadband? Try now!]
[AOL is my friend]
[This post and all future posts and all content are now owned by AOL]
[Copyright (c) 1984 AOL/Time Warner All your rights are ours]
Re:The future of "free speech" (Score:4, Insightful)
You get caller ID
Telemarketing company pays extra to block caller ID on all outbound calls
You pay extra for an unlisted number
Telemarketing company pays extre for list of unlsted numbers
You pay for call block
Telemarketing company pays to bypass call block
Parent
Re:The future of "free speech" (Score:3, Interesting)
I've actually tried calling some of the caller ID #'s that have shown up that are a telemarketing contractor or subcontractor and wound up with either a dead-end recording or a busy signal.
So CID #'s are next to useless in the immediate time being, only worthwhile to a person putting together a lawsuit agianst the joker that stacks call upon call
Re:The future of "free speech" (Score:3, Informative)
People still use AOL?!?! (Score:3)
I remember when AOL was useful, back in the dialup BBS days. But seriously... why would anyone in their right mind still use AOL? The fact that they still survive is absolutely impressive. There is no need for AOL. If you use it, just stop and go with another provider.
http://religiousfreaks.com/ [religiousfreaks.com]Nah, Compuserve was better (Score:2)
Re:People still use AOL?!?! (Score:2)
You have a good memory. I can't remember AOL being useful ever, if you exclude the free diskettes. Back in the days, even Compuserve was a preferable option...
Re:People still use AOL?!?! (Score:3, Insightful)
I've tried to get her to move off. USfamily.net is $8.25/month. I would think saaving a single mom with a 16 year old $13/month would be a good thing.
AOL isn't marketing to the
Re:People still use AOL?!?! (Score:4, Interesting)
A large section of the population are idiots. These people can't figure out how to work a thermostat let alone the internet.
My boss is amoung them. I enjoy working for her, but we have been trying to wean her off AOL ever since work got a DSL line. That's right the company has a DSL line and spends whatever a month just for her AOL. She is the only one who wants it. She get's confused whenever we try to hide it on her. Heck she gets confused whenever we make minor changes.
As I said i do enjoy working for her(the side benefits aren't bad for the job) but she can't figure out how to download a file, or where to find it once it was downloaded. Those Concepts are above her head, and will always be that way.
so for her AOL is good. It's safe, and everything is in one place for her to use.
Parent
Stupid, but legal (Score:4, Insightful)
Time for AOL users to kick off the training wheels (Score:2, Insightful)
This is actually FUNNY (Score:4, Insightful)
I can see the future where such 'news articles' cause havoc at the next shareholder's meetings... sadly, that day has not yet arrived, but as the world of commerce gets flatter, it will...
"software glitch" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"software glitch" (Score:3, Funny)
It might've been a 'glitch' (Score:4, Interesting)
If they use heuristics and other methods for spam filtering that don't always work 100% reliably (I've had legit e-mail end up in the spam bin), it legitimately could have been because their spam filter just decided it was spam, and started dumping it. I'm not defending AOL, I think they suck, but just offering an alternate line of thought. Many ISPs use a human-based filter, the company I work for runs into it all the time, people sign up for our mailing list, and rather than cancel when they're done with it, they just click the "report as spam" button, and then all of our company is on their shit-list, even to those users who want to get our e-mails. Especially if somebody was mass-mailing AOL users that e-mail, it seems likely.
-JesseRe:It might've been a 'glitch' (Score:3, Interesting)
This case dealt with URLs in the message body, but let's consider a similar circumstance with the sending address and mail server name.
Suppose AOL decides to block mail from servers that claim to be part of aol.com, but aren't at one of their own IP addresses. Now suppose someone miscodes the filter to match "aol.com" instead of ".aol.com". So when they test it with fakename.aol.com, it trips the rule and triggers a "possi
SPAM? (Score:3, Interesting)
Sounds like a good candidate for a SPAM filter if you ask me.
Re:SPAM? (Score:3, Informative)
It's amazing how much ignorance about spam, spam filtering, and Goodmail is freely available these days. Maybe somebody should tax ignorance? You say something stupid, "DING!" it costs you ten cents.
Say "goodbye" to your common carrier status, AOL (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Say "goodbye" to your common carrier status, AO (Score:2)
Also, note that from the wiki entry on common carriers [wikipedia.com] ISPs aren't considered telecommunications services (where common carrier status applies)...they're "information services":
AOL - irking customers since 1983 (Score:4, Insightful)
AOL exists on name recognition and the ignorance of the customers that choose to use them as an ISP. Nothing new here. As such, this becomes the modus operandi for everything it does... "let's block these mails, but show them as bounced messages... our users are too dumb to know the difference anyway, right?" Still, nothing new here.
But AOL itself is stupid, thinking that EVERYONE is so blissfully unaware of it's business practices. Even moreso, that anyone would be OK with it.
I don't know which is worse... that AOL thinks it can get away with an e-mail tax, that it can censor e-mails opposing it, or that it thought it was perfectly OK to do either (or both).
Hey, AOL... there are still parts of your feet still down there... keep shooting.
The common user needs to understand this situation (Score:3, Insightful)
ISPs in my experience have an attitude that it is their service and the users who depend on it are merely 'subs' (subscribers). While this perception may in fact be accurate, most users see it as 'their service' and view the ISP merely as a provider. So on one hand, most users spend their days thinking they are the 'always right' and 'all powerful due to their dollar' consumer. On the other hand ISPs tend to see their users as 'fat dumb and happy till something needs maintenance'.
This dichotomy can exist, because in the end most users are too ignorant about IT to know what they can reasonably demand and not reasonably demand. A user is just as likely to call AOL to demand help with excel as they are about their mail being filtered.
In the end users don't own the service they are renting, but ISPs need to learn to respect the rights of their users. The only way that is going to happen is if somehow, Joe six pack gets as pissed about this, as he would be if someone was filtering his mail.
Crazy customers (Score:2, Funny)
Corporations always put shareholders first (Score:2, Insightful)
Good reason to sign on... (Score:3, Insightful)
Their petition states:
In February 2006, AOL announced that it would accept payment for incoming emails. For these certified emails, it would skip its usual anti-spam filters and guarantee delivery for cash. Our coalition believes that the free passage of email between Internet users is a vital part of what makes the Internet work. When ISPs demand a cut of "pay-to-send" email, they're raising tollbooths on the open Net, interfering with the passage of data by demanding protection money at the gates of their customers' computers.
Where's the problem? (Score:3, Insightful)
I do not like AOL, and that is why I am not an AOL subscriber.
You join as a subscriber, you play by their rules. Once you join, you make a connection to their network and, that's just it, you are on THEIR NETWORK. It is their land and their 'domain.' They make the laws - their rules. I think you get the point.
I don't see the issue (Score:3, Insightful)
This WAS spam was it not? The article clearly says that 300 people reported they couldn't send a copy of this email. If 300 people reported it, I can only imagine how many thousands tried to send it.
If I was a spam filter, and I saw thousands of copies of the same email going out, I'd filter it too.
Nice timing (Score:3, Interesting)
AOL filters lots more.... (Score:3, Insightful)
I've got several dozen subscribers in the AOL domain, and have consistently have had problems with bouncing / filtering out of AOL. And usually for bogus reasons.
About one year ago they were filtering ALL email that contained tinurl tags, as a "security" measure. Just to show you how totally bogus it was, even the text tinyurl, tiny (space) url , etc were filtered - that is, just the phrase or two words, NOT EVEN A URL!
Recently someone replied to a post with a string of profanity, including the word FUCK several times in a row. Now everyone on the list are good friends, have been for years, and we jerk each others chains a great deal. No problem. For us at least, as AOL didn't see it that way, and banned ALL email from you-suck.com due to what the headers of their bounces claimed were"profanity violations". I know for a fact that nobody on my list complained to AOL as most are family and the rest good friends.
Totally bogus.
I couldn't even email folks exaplaing what was going on from you-suck.com, and had to use Gmail to tell folks about the problem and ask them for their help in getting email from my domain unblocked (AOL won't do squat for non subscribers).
Bingo. I sent out Gmail invites to every one of my AOL subscribers and two weeks ago the last switched over. Problem solved.
But not really - from AOLs pov. Several of those impacted noted that lots of email was helpfully being screened by AOL, including loads of email from what should be whitelisted, top of the shelf domains - CitiBank, Fidelity, yahoo!, I'm not sure what else.
So of these two dozen former AOL subscribers from my list, at least six are now former AOL subscribers as well, and several others are making plans to bolt as well.
And telling all their friends about AOL, the Nanny ISP.
A couple frustrating years of my time dealing with AOL bogus bounces, and I managed to get a bunch of folks off AOL.
Works for me.
Re:How do they do this? (Score:2)
My server, my rules. (Score:3, Insightful)
That's a key issue: AOL's mail filters are not accountable to MoveOn, the EFF, Craigslist, or anyone else involved in DearAOL. They are accountable only to AOL and AOL's users.