Yahoo Exec Speaks Against DRM 244
AWhiteFlame writes "Dave Goldberg of Yahoo spoke against DRM on media files last Thursday at the Music 2.0 conference in Los Angeles. From the article: 'According to attendees, Goldberg pointed to the experience of eMusic, which offers its subscribers access to MP3 files without any digital rights management attached. Rights management restrictions have created a barrier for consumers, he said, making it a hurdle to transfer music to portable devices, and creating incompatibility between music services and MP3 players ... A Yahoo spokeswoman said that Goldberg was 'basically trying to move the industry forward,' and wanted to prompt industry-wide discussion about what the consumer experience is."
Interesting.. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Interesting.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Interesting.. (Score:3, Interesting)
- no royalties for a DRM system to pay
- systems easier to implement
- customers more satisfied
- good for the image...
The don't own any DRM technology, and thus have no interest in such, adding some only frustrates customers and make them look bad. These days, they only want Google to look bad
Re:Too little? Too late? (Score:2)
Re:Interesting.. (Score:3, Informative)
I'm not going to use a program which charges me for a basic operation like burning a CD. I'll stick with foobar2000, thanks
Re:Interesting.. (Score:3, Informative)
Subscription music services are a big jukebox in the sky, for which you pay $10/mo or so for access. Of course burning CDs is going to cost you more, because in burning a song, you're buying it, not just playing from their big streaming repository.
They're completely different types of services: with one, you pay a little, and you get to listen to whatever you want from their site; with the other, you pay a lot, and get to keep the music yo
Re:Interesting.. (Score:2)
Especially considering that YME doesn't work with my OS of choice (Windows 2000), I'll DEFINITELY stick with fb2k now
I think the commenter UNDERSTOOD it ... (Score:2)
Re:Interesting.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Not really when you translate what he says to [QUOTE]Our DRM is incompatible with the iPod which really sucks for us[/QUOTE], it makes perfect sense
Re:Interesting.. (Score:2)
Normally I might agree that Yahoo (in this instance) would be the source of such aggravation. But if you look a little deeper you will see the truth.
It's in Yahoo's best interest to have as many subscribers as possible. Restricting format options (such as not offering MP3s) only decreases subscribers.
I do not think that it is any coincidence that there is no legal means of buying an MP3 download of music (outside of Mindawn, other indie labels, or Russia).
I suspect that th
Re:Interesting.. (Score:2)
Since being pedantic is apparently encouraged on /., here it goes:
There are plenty of places where you can buy "an MP3 download of music". Just not the stuff you hear on the radio. If stations started playing something other than only what is sent out by the major labels then some of these other sites could get some traffic.
If you mean that the only way to get legal non-DRM copies of what you hear on the radio... then you are pretty much right
Re:Interesting.. (Score:2)
Re:Interesting.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Very, very interesting... that this is the guy saying 'DRM hurts the customer experience' speaks volumes, because he's speaking from the experience of the online music retailer. He's speaking from the experience of running a service which ostensibly makes the same offering, b
Re:Interesting.. (Score:2)
Otherwise it's just unlimited downloads for a fixed fee, which can't be a profitable business model.
But you're going into it knowing it's a subscription service, so it's all on the up-and-up.
Re:Interesting.. (Score:2)
The basic problem with the concept of a good business model is that present technologies allow for hypothetical models in which the industry takes a cut with every time you play a song or watch a movie in perpetuity. As long as this is held up as t
Re:Interesting.. (Score:2)
irony? (Score:2)
It's only the Yahoo Music Unlimited music jukebox that has the DRM restriction.
Irony = only the Yahoo "Music Unlimited" has the DRM restriction!
Re:Interesting.. (Score:2)
Without it you're stuck without any "worthwhile" content. I'm really happy that this guy from Yahoo is talking about it, because he's right. This kind of DRM as in No DRM, or invisible, manageable DRM with a good customer experience is exactly what the i
Re:Interesting.. (Score:2)
Because it's cheaper (Score:3, Interesting)
Now consider you put that $1500 in a savings account and collect 4% on it. You'll get back $60/year which is exactly what yahoo music costs.
So assuming prices/rates dont change, it costs the same to buy 100 cds outright or to lease unlimited music for the rest of your life.
My tastes change pretty frequently, so it's a better deal for me to lease my music. That may not be true for you.
Re:Russian Sites (Score:2)
If the ??AA would get it through their skulls that they can have their profits and no piracy by lowering the barrier to entry (i.e. low prices and minimal if any DRM, or damn near free with
Re:Russian Sites (Score:2)
Re:Russian Sites (Score:2)
Re:Russian Sites (Score:2)
Re:Russian Sites (Score:2)
Like I've stated elsewhere, I have no issue paying more, except that the wrong people get the money. Also, to deal with a later post saying I should just use P2P because that at least is tracked:
So is allofmp3. In addition, by using a pay service I accomplish two things: 1) at least a
Re:Russian Sites (Score:2)
As long as you're ripping off the artist by buying on allofmp3, you might as well rip off the label as well, and save yourself a few cents by getting it for free.
At least your p2p download will be tracked by the label, which will make them more likely to support the artist with promotional funding (for videos, concerts, kickbacks to DJs, etc.)Re:Russian Sites (Score:2)
That's just what they want you to think so they can gain critical mass before they harvest their credit card database. I mean, every good trap has tasty bait.
OK, I just made that up, but consider the defense strategy should such a thing come to pass.
And allofmp3 still gives $0 to the artist, right? Something like it with a cut to the artist and recourse in the users' juristictions would be more ethically and economically acceptible.
Re:Russian Sites (Score:2)
-nB
Re:Russian Sites (Score:2)
That's the killer business model. I wonder how the iTunes Indy price scales work.
Promising, but... (Score:3, Interesting)
If you live in the UK... (Gowers) (Score:5, Informative)
Sadly, the Slashdot eds decided not to run my story about the Gowers Review [hm-treasury.gov.uk] calling for evidence as of yesterday, so since it's directly relevant I'll mention it here.
For those who don't know, this is a government-ordered review into the current state of intellectual property, and whether it needs amending in light of new technologies, easy distribution over the Internet, etc.
The review is concerned with several quite general questions, quite a few specific issues, and any other comments interested parties care to make. Among the specific issues explicitly mentioned in the call for evidence (available on the web site linked above) are:
So, if you're from the UK and you've ever bitched on Slashdot about the unfairness of DRM, the media cartels gaining ever longer "temporary" protections, the daftness that format-shifting is illegal even when the industry is happy to sell you equipment that all but requires it to be useful, the use of patents to create a barrier to entry for OSS, or any number of other IP-related issues, stop complaining on here and write to the Gowers Review to make your case. You can bet the big businesses all will be.
Re:Promising, but... (Score:2)
The sweet spot for music sales has always been the Teen Market. Teens in America have traditionally had the most disposable income. Trends, fads, "cool" (whatever the current, this week only, word for "cool" is) stuff has been a money maker.
When all media was a one way, we put it on, shut up and consume paradigm...music was a way to print money for those who controlled it. Today.... well, there is this Internet thing I keep reading about in the news...
My 15 year old son keeps me appraised of th
Re:Promising, but... (Score:2)
I've often wondered what point people will start to notice. Will it be when the owner of one of the "phone home" type DRM systems goes out of business and millions of people suddently can't listen to music they paid for? Will it be when new devices don't support the DRM on the music people bought just a few years earlier?
Would people buy cars that had restrictions making them only work on certain types of
I never got it (Score:2)
In the day of the tape/casette/VCR players, nobody would cry about people with tape/casette/VCR recorders because they copied some music/movies from a rental service, or TV, or the radio.
I wonder what would happend if EVERYTHING got DRM-enabled, and "piracy" would all but dissapear.
Who the frag would even BUY some (?crappy?) music AT ALL if they never heard a single verse, nor seen a single scene, etc.
I'd have to argue internet piracy has BOOSTED sales of crappy stuff
Re:I never got it (Score:5, Informative)
On the contrary: Jack Valenti Testimony at 1982 House Hearing on Home Recording of Copyrighted Works [cryptome.org]
To quote: But now we are facing a very new and a very troubling assault on our fiscal security, on our very economic life and we are facing it from a thing called the video cassette recorder and its necessary companion called the blank tape. And it is like a great tidal wave just off the shore. This video cassette recorder and the blank tape threaten profoundly the life-sustaining protection, I guess you would call it, on which copyright owners depend, on which film people depend, on which television people depend and it is called copyright. And that was 1982!
Re:I never got it (Score:2)
While the old tech allowed you to make copies, new tech allows you to make a high quality copy and send it to several hundred people in under an hour with very little effort. So they certainly have a reason to be more worried of copying now than they were before.
That said, I think they've gone from "worried" to "insane" and need to tone it down a bit.
Macrovision? (Score:3, Interesting)
So true... (Score:2)
Re:So true... (Score:2, Flamebait)
Why do people buy iPods? (Score:2)
I don't know what you mean about not backing up music that is on your iPod. My music is already on my Mac. And its copied to my i
Re:So true... (Score:2)
First of all, the RIAA is not Congress, nor are they a law enforcement agency. So, just because they tell you something is illegal doesn't make it so. In fact the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 says the following:
Re:So true... (Score:2)
Re:So true... (Score:2)
I'm pretty much fed up with the major labels as a whole. I'm far more likely to listen to some little-known artist via web radio than Britney Spears anyhow. So, bottom line, I don't give a crap what they do as long as they don't get laws passed that restrict how I use the music I purchase from other sources (such as Magnatune.com)
I'm not a criminal and I don't like having my hands tied behind my back as if I were one.
Re:So true... (Score:2)
Re:So true... (Score:2)
EMusic's problem (Score:2)
I don't want to sign up for anything unless I know WTF I am going to be able to buy. I find most people fit into the same mindset. You need to know what artists are available before you are going to jump into this new unknown site.
Re:EMusic's problem (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.emusic.com/browse/all.html [emusic.com]
Well that's nice! (Score:2)
Re:EMusic's problem (Score:2)
could spur growth or not (Score:2)
what you are asking for exists (Score:2)
Nothing's free, you have to give a little to get a little. In your case, you gave $$$ (ipod) to get compatability with a piece of software and the DRM that comes w
"A Yahoo spokeswoman said" (Score:2)
Quick and Easy way to beat iTMS (Score:2)
However there is another way, if Yahoo's store sold, instead of DRM encumbered MS only files, un-DRMed AAC or MP3 files, these would work fine with the iPod, they could sell them at a lower cost than iTunes and compete with Apple.
Of course the RIAA will never allow them to do this, because non-DRMed music is bad, right?
Re:Quick and Easy way to beat iTMS (Score:2)
Only way I'll get downloaded music (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Only way I'll get downloaded music (Score:2)
The only way anybody will get me to download music at all is when they pry my 60 CD-changer stereo from my cold, dead hands...
Re:Only way I'll get downloaded music (Score:2)
Re:Only way I'll get downloaded music (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Medical uses are realistic (Score:2)
lossless encoding whiners (Score:2, Insightful)
What I decided to do was to offer MP3's at around 260-270 kbps. If you can tell the difference between that and lossless, .. you should be an audio compression engineer.
david
BTW, have you bought my compilation yet? It'll cost ya 1 lousy buck.
http://www.bitworksmusic.com/ [bitworksmusic.com]
odd tunes for odd times
Re:lossless encoding whiners (Score:2)
Lossless? give me a break... (Score:2)
Look, it's very simple.
Until my $10^H^H 15^H^H 20 (inflation, you know) buys me a live, in-person, on-demand performance by the artist no matter where I'm located, I am not buying into this "recorded" music line of crap. For 1/5 to 1/10 the price of a honest-to-goodness ticket (well, ignoring the +20% processing/handling fee) for a live performance, they want me to buy this inferior, static (and static-filled!) recording? What a racket. My highly-evolved sense of hearing can't
Re:lossless encoding whiners (Score:2)
What the consumer experience is ? (Score:2)
Commie! (Score:2)
Consumer experience? Consumer experience?!? Look, the corporations are the corporations because they know what makes a good consumer experience. They wouldn't be so rich, and they wouldn't be running this country if they didn't know what was best for us. Now buy what they tell you to, the way they tell you to, and quit your bitching. Why can't you people just see it their way?
the people have spoken (Score:2)
We want free music that can run on all devices (PC, portable players, cell phones, etc.)
We're sick of getting gouged by $20(or more) CDs with little, if any, worthy content. Does anyone remember how we were told CDs would go down in price after they became more popular than tapes? Well, that point arrived 10+ years ago! So until I see musicians starving on the streets, I'm
Re:the people have spoken (Score:2)
Re:the people have spoken (Score:2)
He's not entitled to make music from a CD. It's a recording. Just information, and information is very easy to transfer. If he wants to make money, he should be out playing on the stage, and actually working. I also know a number of bands and musicians who make a pretty decent living just playing local gigs. And they give their CD's away.
The music/video market is artifically inflated, and kept that way through stupid,
What needs to be done (Score:2)
What needs to be done is a format used which has good quality at a decent file size (something like Musepack would be ideal), a DRM scheme added to it and lots of plugins released for lots of players on lots of different OSes. Maybe something like Steam could be worked out, so that the plugin talks to the client, makes sure the music is authori
Re:What needs to be done (Score:2)
Even if they do, there will still be the analog hole, and I wonder what that will look like. In theory it only takes one person to do that "analog rip" and then watch it spread through the
Re:What needs to be done (Score:2)
Goldberg? (Score:3, Funny)
dear Dave Goldberg, (Score:2)
thank you,
the consumers
Music name limitation (Score:2, Funny)
look at Yahoo China... no, not THAT... (Score:2, Informative)
None of his business (Score:2)
Re:It's my and everyone's business. (Score:2)
Re:It's my and everyone's business. (Score:2)
Yep. Next dumb question?
Re:It's my and everyone's business. (Score:2)
From a Consumer's Point of View? (Score:2)
I think it should be required that corporate execs spend a week without a charge card and 'only' $1000 in cash. Their goal is to use their own service as much as possible in one week. See how many times they have to call tech, etc. I think it would be a good test of their own infrastructure: put the top at the bottom and see how far they get before they want to stab someone.
my humble experience (Score:3, Interesting)
I stopped listening to music. It's too much hassle. Between bullshit restrictions on what players I can buy to go with what music stores and what artists are on what website and who does what with their precioussss intellectual property, FUCK IT ALL.
Beethoven, perhaps the greatest musician of all time once said something along the lines of he dreams that there should be but one big warehouse where all the artists of the world can drag their art to and come away with what they needed.
That's called the internet people, his dream has come true but you so called "musicians" and "record labels" have botched it. I don't listen to new music anymore. It's too hard for me to get some tunes that are still true to the spirit of music and art. I have my small collection of rock and roll and jazz and classical and I do just fine popping it into the car once in a while.
So ROCK ON Yahoo! man, I hope they listen to you. (disclaimer: I hate Yahoo and worship Google)
The Consumer Experience is... (Score:2)
Translation (Score:2)
Apple's Rights management restrictions have created a barrier for consumers, he said, making it a hurdle to transfer Yahoo DRMed music to iPods, by creating incompatibility between music services and iPods.
Well ok then... (Score:2)
Re: Invest 2 years of your life.. (Score:2)
Current DRM schemes prevent people from doing things they used to be able to do. Things they WANT to be able to do.
For what? So-called "pirates" aren't hindered by DRM in any real way. The only people that it affects are the average consumers that the media producers rely on for almost all of thier revenue.
What it amounts to is, the media companies HATE the idea of distributing stuff over the internet. It bypasses their ENTIRE distribution network, their entire marketing net
One thing... (Score:2)
I own a Treo 650. It is my only portable device other than my laptop. It will stay that way until I replace it wholesale with another PDA/phone combo.
I will willingly pay for music, under one condition - it will play back on my Treo. This means no DRM. I HAVE purchased music from iTMS during the periods where PyMusique worked, and I have never made the un-DRMed purchased tracks
Re: Invest 2 years of your life.. (Score:2)
Did those two years have value? That's a question for a philosopher or theologian. As to the more concrete question of whether the guy got any money from it, if he's like my friend he did because people heard his music and came to see his gigs. He could never get a recording contract with any promotion but when he uploaded his music with ID3 tags going to his website he started getting hits and fans.
This idea of making money by holding a monopoly on reproducing certain
Re: Invest 2 years of your life.. (Score:2)
The artists will find a way to survive, and even prosper, since the distribution companies will be weakened, and those companies have often exploited the artists severely.
The Internet takes care of (digital) distribution and promotion. As for the need for physical CD's, one could hire a CD pressing firm, rather than needing a full blown record company.
Re: Invest 2 years of your life.. (Score:2)
Before recorded music, composers survived by begging rich people to support them.
Re: Invest 2 years of your life.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, this doesn't mean I should be allowed to upload my music or
Re:surprisingly I don't like it either... (Score:2)
I don't know what sort of work you do, although you gave the impression from your original post that you are more of a struggling artist than a big time one. I do think P2P networks do hurt the little guy, but not in the way most people think.
Without P2P you can only obtain so much music from the big artists (if you're not rich). Once your money runs out, you'll need to start looking to other sources for your music fix. A small time
Re: Invest 2 years of your life.. (Score:2)
The problem is that you have NO INHERENT ENTITLEMENT TO MAKE MONEY. Zip. Nada. Zilch. The industry has been so controlled for so long that people don't realize that that's not how it should be. Only in the 50's did music stars start making assloads of money. Music was just another performance art before then, and that's
Re: Invest 2 years of your life.. (Score:2)
In what world do you live in? You mean he could have waited tables for two years.
Re:If you notice carefully... (Score:2)
Re:If you notice carefully... (Score:2)
Re: Invest 2 years of your life.. (Score:2)
Just because someone wasted a lot of effort doing something does not mean that they should get paid for it. To be paid for something you have to create something people actually want. The effort spent is not a measure of value to the buyer.
For example consider someone who is a violinist in a symphony orchestra with a dr
And no they won't beg for more... (Score:2, Interesting)
Upload it to a P2P server, and people will hear it. If it isn't pure shit, they will open their wallets and beg you for more.
Once it's uploaded to the P2P server it has become free. There is no need to open the wallet for something they can get.... FREE.
Back to your original point, I'm not going to buy a song I've never heard.
Using this logic you wouldn't buy the follow-on work I produce either because.. you haven't heard THAT yet either. So again, you want it free.
At this point one would have pr
Re:Mod Parent Up! (Score:2)
There goes those damn computer nerds spoiling the Industry. Well, it ain't gonna happen at Yahoo. That's for sure.
Re:does he care? (Score:2)
It does. Although it has recordings of many well-known artists--Cold Play, Miles Davis, Sigur Ros, etc.--these recordings were done on smaller labels before they became famous and were tied to more restrictive contracts.
EMusic can sell unencumbered MP3s because it deals mainly in artists that would benefit from more casual sharing of their material. They are still in (or stuck in) that stage of popularity where they need to gain more fans--who will go to the shows, b
Re:does he care? (Score:2)
Hmmm... These artists don't seem stuck to me: Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, Louis Armstrong.