Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Microsoft Using Personal Data to Target Ads

Posted by timothy on Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:27 PM
from the so-be-good-for-bidness'-sake dept.
smooth wombat writes "Microsoft is combing personal data with your search habits to produce targeted ads. Users who use Microsoft's Hotmail email service, msn.com news service and other Microsoft-owned sites will see ads specific to their demographic and interests. From the article: 'Microsoft executives say the system works anonymously and they won't pass on people's names or addresses to advertisers. Executives say they want to foster confidence in users to build a long-term business, and one that gives an incentive to not misuse personal details.' "We're in the early days of behavioral targeting but it's an idea whose time has come,' says Simon Andrews, chief digital strategy officer for WPP Group's MindShare, a large buyer of ad time. 'There is a lot of potential to know if people have been looking at specific sites.'"
+ -
story
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • by vmfedor (586158) on Thursday December 28 2006, @12:29PM (#17389106)
    This article is sure to be greeted positively by the Slashdot community!
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Would that be based on Microsoft, Yahoo! or Google research results? Or did you just bump your into the wall to get this idea? Inquiring minds want to know...
    • Being honest, if these guys think they can defeat the combination of my appalling typing in search engine boxes and the spoofed mail account details, they're welcome to try (what, you think I'm really called 'Wibble Blah'?). And if they suceed, I'll ditch the account and get a new one.
    • by Jason Earl (1894) on Thursday December 28 2006, @03:05PM (#17391206) Homepage

      I've never understood this myself. Microsoft and friends are going to push ads at us either way, I would just as soon see ads for stuff that I am actually interested in. When I go to a store and the salesman knows me well enough to actually be helpful I chalk that up to good service. Why should a website be any different?

      I think that the real problem is that a lot of slashdotters don't like the picture that the sum of their online information paints about them. If you don't like the picture that your online experience paints of you, then you might want to reconsider how you act while online.

        • Perhaps it is just because I grew up in a small town, but I am used to people knowing who I am. When I go shopping in my home town chances are good that the person behind the counter not only knows who I am, but who my parents and grandparents are as well. Heck, chances are good that they taught me in Sunday School and know all sorts of embarrassing stories about me.

          Likewise I have never considered my full name to be some sort of secret. I'll happily supply my name to anyone that asks. In fact, I don'

  • This is AWESOME! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mmell (832646) <mike@the-mells.com> on Thursday December 28 2006, @12:32PM (#17389134) Homepage
    I use my hotmail address as a spam honeypot anyhow; now Microsoft is leading the (sp)lambs to the slaughter!

    What a shame I don't use Microsoft's "Start" search. ;^D

    Oh, and BTW - First Post?

  • Hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Twench (580538) on Thursday December 28 2006, @12:32PM (#17389136)
    Good thing Google doesn't do this with Gmail by scanning your info and producing targeted ads in a side bar ... oh ... wait!
    • seriously, it's nothing real new. It just sounds like MS is playing catchup.

      Besides, some of those targeted ads are pretty handy for the senseless emails I've been sending out about 'planning trips with friends' and whatnot - I wonder why people are still screaming for blood about their privacy, I figured by this time the majority of the population have gone to learn not to email their ssn, bank statements or tax info around.

    • It's not the same thing. The article is about Microsoft using personal data (admittedly, data that is entered by the users themselves) along with search and browsing habits to create ads. This is a whole different ballpark from delivering ads that are relevant to content you are viewing at some particular moment, i.e. an email you're reading mentions cats, you get ads about cats, to take an example I noticed on Gmail just today. Personally, I'm fine with that. But creating a huge database that combines pers

      • yeah, the same as it is with google.

        They will also scan your emails and your searches, create a profile and use if for the ads.
      • by Mateo_LeFou (859634) on Thursday December 28 2006, @01:11PM (#17389620) Homepage
        is stated here:

        http://www.google.com/privacy.html [google.com]

        Personal information and other data we collect

                * Google collects personal information when you register for a Google service or otherwise voluntarily provide such information. We may combine personal information collected from you with information from other Google services or third parties to provide a better user experience, including customizing content for you.
                * Google uses cookies and other technologies to enhance your online experience and to learn about how you use Google services in order to improve the quality of our services.
                * Google's servers automatically record information when you visit our website or use some of our products, including the URL, IP address, browser type and language, and the date and time of your request.
                * Read more in the full privacy policy.

        Uses

                * We may use personal information to provide the services you've requested, including services that display customized content and advertising.
                * We may also use personal information for auditing, research and analysis to operate and improve Google technologies and services.
                * We may share aggregated non-personal information with third parties outside of Google.
                * When we use third parties to assist us in processing your personal information, we require that they comply with our Privacy Policy and any other appropriate confidentiality and security measures.
                * We may also share information with third parties in limited circumstances, including when complying with legal process, preventing fraud or imminent harm, and ensuring the security of our network and services.
                * Google processes personal information on our servers in the United States of America and in other countries. In some cases, we process personal information on a server outside your own country.
                * Read more in the full privacy policy.

        Your choices

                * We offer you choices when we ask for personal information, whenever reasonably possible. You can find more information about your choices in the privacy notices or FAQs for specific services.
                * You may decline to provide personal information to us and/or refuse cookies in your browser, although some of our features or services may not function properly as a result.
                * We make good faith efforts to provide you access to your personal information upon request and to let you correct such data if it is inaccurate and delete it, when reasonably possible.
                * Read more in the full privacy policy.
    • Difference is, Google doesn't also create the operating system that 99% of these people use.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No, my friend, that's a totally different can of worms.
      Gmail presents you with ads based on the content of the page you are *currently* looking at. It does not rely on any personal information about you.
      It sounds like what Microsoft is doing is identifying who are every time you use any of their web services and building up a persistent personal profile of what you are interested in. So next time your significant other asks you why she keeps getting porn ads on every site she visits when she uses your compu
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        ...ads based on the content of the page you are *currently* looking at...

        That is a major distinction, and my chief concern. Persistence over sessions can be a pain. People are not, despite the marketers' opinions, single mode entities. One can be privately looking for bare boobs at 10 PM, even though at 6 PM, in the company of a wide eyed 3 year old, you were looking for pooh bear. Same computer, same account, but not at ALL the same marketing opportunity.

      • Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Achromatic1978 (916097) <robert AT pennyonthesidewalk DOT com> on Thursday December 28 2006, @03:47PM (#17391702)
        Gmail presents you with ads based on the content of the page you are *currently* looking at. It does not rely on any personal information about you. It sounds like what Microsoft is doing is identifying who are every time you use any of their web services and building up a persistent personal profile of what you are interested in.

        You keep on believing that Gmail does no such thing. As previously pointed out, even their privacy policy says different. Signed up for Orkut? With all your profile data there? Guess what, "Google uses personal information provided when you register for any Google service..."

        So, again, I'm confused, what's the difference, other than "Most slashdotters make brownnosers look amateur with their efforts to worship the ground Google walks on"?

    • So the trick for MS to get away with evil is to let Google do it first. Then just copy them. As long as Google does it first everybody will justify it as somehow being okay.
  • Meh (Score:2, Insightful)

    I suppose this sort of thing doesn't really bother me. Frankly oftentimes I even opt-in to this sort of stuff. I like seeing things I am interested in (tech, games, etc) and I am not interested in seeing ads for things that I have zero interest in (donkey calliopes). At least this makes the ad-spam more interesting.
    • I suppose this sort of thing doesn't really bother me. Frankly oftentimes I even opt-in to this sort of stuff. I like seeing things I am interested in (tech, games, etc) and I am not interested in seeing ads for things that I have zero interest in (donkey calliopes). At least this makes the ad-spam more interesting.

      I worked in the ad business for a short time, and one of the many horrible things I learned then is that advertisers don't want to show you ads for stuff you're interested in, they want to harass you with ads for stuff you're not YET interested in, to change your mind.

      You'll find out about your own interests on your dime.

  • Isn't this exactly what people were afraid Doubleclick was going to do six or seven years ago when they bought that mass junk mail database? Public outcry was so huge then that Doubleclick had to very publically back off.

    I wonder if the majority of people even care now? I do, and I suspect a fair number of Slashdotters do, but I don't think most people even notice these days. Or they've given up.
  • 'There is a lot of potential to know if people have been looking at specific sites'
    Spammers say the same thing; so where's the opt-out button? Granted, people could just refuse to use the service, but they have to be aware of what's going on, too.

    Of course, it's not like I expect privacy on the Internet, anyway. :P
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      I don't know if its still there but somewhere in the privacy statements for MSN sites was a 1-800 number you could call to opt out of all ad targeting that was linked to your passport account.
  • by monkeyserver.com (311067) on Thursday December 28 2006, @12:35PM (#17389172) Homepage Journal
    I'm sure people will get up in arms, but this is what everyone does. They take all the info they have about you and they try to find out how to use that to most effectively market to you. Google does it, and so do most retailers. Retailers look at demographic info they have, purchase and return behaviors, and they often buy "data appends", or data about you collected by third parties, to augment their info.

    They don't use this to hunt you down, spy on you in the bathroom, or brainwash you. What they do is figure out, statistically, based on this info, what you will buy, and try to sell that to you. It's how they make money more effeciently, and when done right, it's a service to you too. This is on the rise too, the best thing to do here is to embrace it and encourage companies to behave responsibly with this new-found knowledge.
    • Service? (Score:3, Insightful)

      Well. Maybe you're right. I remember last time I clicked on a banner and bought something that was....
      Wait. That was... Sorry. Can't remember.

      Well let's say that was WAY before 2003.
    • Yah, but this is based on search results! I, I mean this guy I know, doesn't want to be constantly bombarded with people trying to sell him midget porn.

  • by malfunct (120790) * on Thursday December 28 2006, @12:36PM (#17389194) Homepage
    This is not new and so far as I know not unique to Microsoft. The advertiser buys a "segment" of people and when a person in the segment views a Microsoft owned website they see the add that is "targeted" to them. A segment of people would be like Male 18-25 who likes cars. To be honest this is the same sort of thing that advertisers have purchased for years its just that Microsoft has the ability to better know if the viewer has those tastes. I'm not sure at all why this is some sort of new privacy concern for people. I also think most of the readers here understand that every other major advertising player online is trying to do the same thing. Those big players probably being Yahoo and Google of course.

    Ways to avoid being "tracked" are to clear your cookies and don't sign in to sites. Of course then you will get to see the ads you could care less about instead of something that might possibly be useful to you.

    As far as the claim that a person that buys a large portion of ads could start to identify people I don't at all buy it because Microsoft states, and I trust they follow the statement given the scrutiny that they recieve from all sides, that they don't pass your data on. Whats likely is that a person buys a segment for thier ads and at the end they get a report that says, "We were able to satisfy xx% of your request in xx days". They might also get info like "If you had booked your add on xxx.msn.com instead of zzz.msn.com we could have satisfied tt% more of your request and if you had booked both we could have satisfied the entire request."

    One way that you could be "identified" is if you actually clicked through any of the ads in which case they could assign your IP or a cookie on your machine to a profile that has the segment information from the ad you clicked through on pre-populated.
  • I am curious (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 28 2006, @12:40PM (#17389256)
    As to how /. readers will react to this compared to the privacy concerns with Gmail [slashdot.org].

    To refresh your memory:

    Don't want your messages to be readable by the 'wrong' people? Encrypt 'em real good, or don't use email.

    But if someone wants to provide a free service, then you get what you pay for. Be sure you read the terms of service. If you don't like it, use something else.

    Erase the cookie. Don't use the service. How do you know Yahoo! doesn't read all it's mail?
  • GOOGLE DOES THE EXACT SAME THING!

    Their incoming mailserver reads your e-mail and gives you things to potentially see or do with it. It finds parcel tracking numbers, assuming they're correctly formatted, for USPS, UPS, FedEx, and DHL and maybe more, addresses to map -- and also links to products and services with keywords the same as phrases found in the e-mail you're reading.

    There isn't anything wrong with this, either -- you're using their service, they're providing ads in a non-invasive manner to recoup
  • This really isn't anything new. A few years ago I worked on an advertising project that involved tracking your preferences which pulled information from your profile to tailor the ads that you received. It was smart advertising, because it led to higher click-through rates. We didn't pass your information on to other firms unless it was noted in our privacy contract - and even that was a completely separate process. For ads, it was a lot wiser to fill your sidebar and popups with age/sex/interest specific a
    • pulled information from your profile to tailor the ads that you received. It was smart advertising

            I fail to see the logic in that. Oh look, he bought , that means he must like , let's bombard him with offers for MORE of . If I just bought one, it's actually LESS likely I am going to buy that same kind of product again...no matter how many ads.
    • "I worked on an advertising project that involved tracking your preferences which pulled information from your profile .. We didn't pass your information on to other firms unless it was noted in our privacy contract" I don't want people tracking my preferences, not for any nefarious purpose, it's just none of your business. Even so see what happened to this Fireman, er .. gender neutral/fighter when he bought something with his Store Card.

      "Philip Scott Lyons .. was arrested last August and charged with
  • > There is a lot of potential to know if people have been looking at specific sites.

    And this is why I've given up my mobile phone, why my hard disks are encrypted, why I'm going to run my own SMTP/POP servers, and why I'm starting to think about not using Google any more.

    If you don't reject it, you're passively accepting it.
  • Clippy (Score:5, Funny)

    by justkarl (775856) * on Thursday December 28 2006, @12:43PM (#17389292) Homepage
    "I see you're trying to search for Porn. Would you like to try Microsoft Porn for free?"
  • by Dachannien (617929) on Thursday December 28 2006, @12:47PM (#17389340)
    There is a lot of potential to know if people have been looking at specific sites.

    The only sites I look at are Slashdot and pron, so put that in your database and smoke it.
  • "Executives say they want to foster confidence in users to build a long-term business"

    Shouldn't they start with building a secure operating system, rather than targeted ads?
  • Everybody does this, or is trying too. News would be a simple,100 per cent effective way of defeating it's use.
  • by Ph33r th3 g(O)at (592622) on Thursday December 28 2006, @01:13PM (#17389646)
    . . . while logged in, be it with the Great Satan Microsoft or the All-Angelic Google, is a recipe for having a dossier built on yourself that Bob-knows-who will have access to in perpetuity. If you must use Hotmail, Gmail, MSN messenger, or what-have-you, at least use a separate browser instance running through TOR or JAP that's not logged in as you for your searching needs. Years later, when you need a security clearance, have to have a background investigation, or heaven forbid run for office, you'll thank yourself for not having left those behavioral breadcrumbs behind. Even if your searches are totally innocent, their being dredged up can't be of benefit to you, only detriment.
  • This is _exactly_ what I want.

    You know what pisses me off more than ads?

    Ads that do not apply to me in any way whatsoever. I do not want spam about penis enlargement, about meeting women, or about hot stock tips.

    If I only ever saw ads for:
    - specials on go-fast parts for the particular year and model of each of my cars
    - deals on ram from brands i trust for types of computers i already own
    - used sun equipment on ebay
    - lenses for Canon EOS systems

    i'd probably click on a ton more ads, and buy more stuff. I wi
  • Virtually every advertiser in the world wants the ability to target their ads since it's more economical. Other search engines have been doing it for years. Companies like DoubleClick, etc. have been doing it for years. The advertising that's starting to appear on mobile phones (like Tuesday's article [slashdot.org] about Verizon Wireless) is all targeted as much as possible. The only way you can target ads is by using some sort of personal information, whether it's anonymous cookies, the physical location that your ce
    • Companies like DoubleClick, etc. have been doing it for years.

      I'd love to see philanthropic hacker create a worm that updates the host table to 127.0.0.1 DoubleClick, etc.
  • Big Deal (Score:3, Interesting)

    by KwKSilver (857599) on Thursday December 28 2006, @01:29PM (#17389828)
    I'm no fan of MS, but what else is new? If you don't like it don't use the product. MS's EULAs give MS the right to do whatever they want to with your data, and even if the EULA didn't it gives MS the right to change the EULA to say whatever they want it to say & you can agree or kiss your files goodbye. Isn't stuff like this the real reason why index.dat link [wikipedia.org] files are around? To feed MS data to use? Again, if you don't like it, don't use the stuff. There are ways out.

  • by blahplusplus (757119) on Thursday December 28 2006, @01:39PM (#17389966)
    It's very trivial to discover who people are, especially if you're combing and data mining their email for details to build reports to give to advertisers. Not only that, it's trivially simpler to correlate who people are with email and their IP addresses. So much private information passes through the email system, I would not be surprised if their are entire databases decribing everything about a person, their interests and their life that they have revealed through public email system to private friends, lovers and colleagues over the internet.

    You cannot have privacy in a modern economy everyone leaves breadcrumbs everywhere by interacting with businesses.
  • by WPIDalamar (122110) on Thursday December 28 2006, @03:26PM (#17391466) Homepage
    Ad's aren't annoying in themselves, ad's you don't care about are annoying.

    If you happen to see an ad that tells you about something you're interested in, that's a good thing for you and for the marketer and things like this just make that more likely.

  • Even more so ... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kbahey (102895) on Thursday December 28 2006, @05:15PM (#17392738) Homepage
    Well, here is a real life case from a relative of mine:

    Last October, he was searching Yahoo for a website of a conference that was held in Sao Paolo, Brazil. Less than an hour later he receives an email from Expedia, which he used before to book travel (and probably checked off or left checked, a box that says "send me spam").

    The email from Expedia says:

    "Dear X, Looking for a hotel in Sao Paulo? We make it easy, thanks to a variety of ways to search. Plus, with our Best Price Guarantee, you'll always get the lowest price. The best rooms and rates go fast--start your hotel search now."


    So, does Yahoo sell the info in real time to rival Microsoft, rather than their own Yahoo Travel? Or what?

    It can't be a coincidence for sure.
    • Adblock is a great firefox plugin, but still...ads are everywhere.
      If you are still seeing ads, you aren't using adblock correctly.

      Unless they make them serve from the same server the content is from and don't have the path different from other graphics, or just make them text that is part of the normal served page, I see no advertising at all.