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Apple's Billion Dollar Patent & Other Stories From Patentland

Posted by Hemos on Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:55 AM
from the it's-time-to-get-your-learn-on dept.
DECS writes "It has been widely reported that Apple secured a patent worth a "billion dollars." According to a patent attorney involved in the issue, Apple will be "after every phone company, film maker, computer maker and video producer to pay royalties." The good news is that all the news reports were based on misleading hyperbole. " Don't let the title fool you; the essay is a good background on patents, the horror stories of some of them but also why companies feel compelled to seek patents as a business "safety" precaution.
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  • Apple patented porn?
  • by The Zon (969911) <thezon@gmail.com> on Monday December 04 2006, @11:03AM (#17099852)
    "Apple Attorney Secures Patent For Film, Phones, Computers" If somebody had actually pulled this off, putting out a press release seems almost humble.
    • Re:Press Releases (Score:4, Insightful)

      by MECC (8478) * on Monday December 04 2006, @12:02PM (#17100660)
      Actually from here [yahoo.com] 'Starkweather wrote the patent in 1996 for a Vermont inventor who originally didn't show interest in patenting the idea or understand its value. The concept consisted of a desktop computer holding multiple songs with an interface allowing a hotel guest to select three songs and play them on an electric grand piano. Starkweather saw the broader value and broke the patent into three elements; remote music storage, selection of music to download and playing music on a music device. Starkweather realized that downloading movies was an obvious variation to downloading music. It was data manipulated in the same way. "Sometimes it's easy to break an invention down to its key components," Starkweather says. "That's why patent writing is an art, not a science, and requires creativity."'

      I would correct Starkweather's last statement to be "That's why patent writing is a dark art, and requires the surrender of all ethical bounds checking".

  • In my opinion (Score:5, Insightful)

    by El Lobo (994537) on Monday December 04 2006, @11:04AM (#17099854)
    In my maybe subjective opinion, if there is one company I would fear in the patent and legal feald, this is not MS, nor Sun nor IBM , but Apple. Apple's legal hounds are legendary by their actions going after even individual users for such small things like "making a MacOS theme for Windows XP", or such things. What could they do for such things like a billion dollar patent... I'm scared.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Hey mods, just because you don't agree doesn't make it flamebait.

      Apple has shown some very litigious behavior for many years, I think it's a valid point if a bit overblown (and not really relevant if you RTFA, but heck this _is_ slashdot).

      If you think it's not a valid point, why not refute it?

  • by FunkeyMonk (1034108) on Monday December 04 2006, @11:04AM (#17099860) Homepage
    Did Apple patent the Billion Dollar Bill?
  • Not getting it (Score:5, Interesting)

    by AKAImBatman (238306) * <akaimbatman@gm a i l . com> on Monday December 04 2006, @11:05AM (#17099870) Homepage Journal
    The story contains some great facts for people who are unaware, but the author doesn't seem to be going anywhere with it. First he talks about the "billion dollar patent" then goes off on a tangent about IP without ever explaining how any of it ties back into the original issue.

    I'd give it an A for research, but a C- for usefulness.

    Also, what is up with the "we're being censored by Digg" bit at the end? Following his Digg links, it seems like everything is working fine. The only thing I found on the subject was this accusation [googlepages.com] claiming that Roughly Drafted is trying to game digg. The only thing I can figure is that some of the new algorithms (which favor users who have gotten stories to the front page) killed the stories from getting to the front page. Whether someone is gaming the system or not, he needs more established users in order to get his stories to the front page.
    • Re:Not getting it (Score:4, Informative)

      by ZachPruckowski (918562) <zachary.pruckowski@gmail.com> on Monday December 04 2006, @11:22AM (#17100062)
      A lot of digg users bury Roughly Drafted stories on site. There's no algorithym change involved in his claims of being censored. Digg users just think he stories are very biased pro-Apple, and also are annoyed because he has dozens of digging sockpuppets.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Digg users just think he stories are very biased pro-Apple

        That's probably his stories are very biased pro-Apple. It took me one look at the Roughly Drafted Magazine [roughlydrafted.com] page a few weeks ago when his site hosted the Leopard vs. Vista article (linked to here on /.) to realize that. I didn't even have to read the aforementioned comparison, because I could already tell what it was going to say. The sad part is, I navigated to the RDM page to find Page 1 of the Leopard vs. Vista review thinking that maybe someone

    • Re:Not getting it (Score:5, Interesting)

      by DECS (891519) on Monday December 04 2006, @03:03PM (#17103444) Homepage Journal
      Hi - Thanks for the A. I described patent law and Apple's disasterous pit of litigation in 1988-1994 to answer the claim that Apple will, as the patent attorney says, convert from a hardware company to a patent lawsuit machine.

      The www.roughlydrafteded.com site is censored by Digg, not because stories are ranked poorly, but because the system automatically bars URL submissions from sites that have had a given number of submitted articles buried.

      The anonymous poster of your link (ba01162.googlepages) is "Lackawack," a Digg user who announced he would set up a "vigalante army" of fake accounts on Digg and take down any articles that had been submitted from RoughlyDrafted. That was in response to unflattering reviews and general taunting of the Zune.

      That resulted in Lackawack getting his user banned on Digg, but he immediately resurfaced as lackawack2 and started buring old articles that had been on the front page. He also attacked everyone digging any RDM articles. He started keeping a McCarthy list of "suspicious Digg users" who digg RDM articles, which is the page you advertise in your post.

      Of course, if any of those users were fake, lackawack2 could have just submitted them to Digg and the site would ban them. Since he couldn't do that, he just raised a FUD screen of "sounds suspicious!!!" and kept working to bury old stories until enough articles on Digg had been sequentially banned so that Digg blocked further submissions.

      That mechanism is designed to prevent domains from dumping a bunch of junk into Digg, but it is entirely worthless, as plenty of spam anonyblog domains caputure Digg's front page. All the "top 10 lists of stuff you already know" that link to anonymous googlepages full of Adsense, or domains all run by the same group of pay for say astroturfers (some of which have been outted on RDM) happily consume much of Digg's bandwidth.

      The thing is, if you need to repress someone else's speech with your own noise, you're probably lying. I try to contribute original, worthwhile writing on subjects to balance the sensationalist and often poorly thought out press release regurgiations that are much easier and profitable to do. If you don't like my stuff, you can ignore it, but presenting a liar's troll campaign as a credable attack is just lame.

      The vast majority of comments on RDM articles on Digg were very positive. It is only the miniority of anonymous trolls there who want to censor opinions that fail to hail everythign from Microsoft with effusive kowtowing. Digg just has systems in place that allows that type of abuse. That's making it increasingly less interesting to use Digg.

      NewsFactor [roughlydrafted.com] looks interesting.

       
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            With all due respect, you lose a lot of credibility by dedicating article space to this minor personal spat, and even more by participating in this red herring of a conversation.
  • by jimstapleton (999106) on Monday December 04 2006, @11:15AM (#17099980) Journal
    interested in initiating lawsuits except in self defense from other lawsuits.

    Guess the author never heard of the "FreeType" library, I believe Apple threatened to sue them for the parts of their text rendering engine, that allowed them to effectively do things like antialiasing. Apple also, as mentioned in the article, tried to sue Microsoft for various violations.

    He also never mentioned what the actual patent was about did he?

    The article seems to have very little to do with the title, and the evidence is lackluster for the case, at best.
    • by gandreas (908538) on Monday December 04 2006, @11:28AM (#17100138)
      Apple never sued FreeType - see FreeType's own account about this myth [sourceforge.net]
      The patents Apple has in TrueType also have to do with grid-fitting of curves, and not antialiasing - basically a way to provide hints to adjust control points for curves on limited resolution contexts, effectively so that you don't have to do any antialiasing (which on a B&W device is impossible).
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        I never said they did, I said they /threatened too/, this was a couple of years ago, when the bytecode interperater wasn't turned off. Now they ship it with that functionality turned off to prevent such litigations.
    • In each of those cases, the patents involved affected only one company (FreeType or MS), whereas this patent threatens the entire phone and digital music industries. It's visible in the image on the right that the article covers downloading music to a computer and putting it on a portable device (most MP3 stores, podcasts, etc), or downloading directly to a portable device (phones). This is a "killer patent", and in my mind, one that has the potential to stagnate the industry until it's killed.
    • The article seems to have very little to do with the title,

      From the summary: "Don't let the title fool you; the essay is a good background on patents."

      He also never mentioned what the actual patent was about did he?

      Seeabove, and from TOA: "the clear intent of the press release...was really all about the patent attorney,"

      But, for the sake of reference, one more click gives you:
      "Patent that covers the downloading of music and video with the ability to play music and video on a device."

    • it's interesting that they say apple isn't...interested in initiating lawsuits except in self defense from other lawsuits.

      Not really. This is how things are done nowadays...especially in the BioTech sector. Its called "Mutually Assured Patent Destruction". Since it isn't really feasible to do anything without infringing on some company's patent, the best defense against lawsuits is a counter lawsuit. In the BioTech area, you will not get any kind of venture capital funding without a portfolio of pat
      • but given my full comment, it's still wrong.

        Apple /is/ interested in initiating lawsuits, just against people who have no patent shield.
      • They do now, doesn't mean they did back then.

        Kindof like we have computers now. Doesn't mean we have always had them.
  • by inKubus (199753) on Monday December 04 2006, @11:17AM (#17100000) Homepage Journal
    This is a novel method of storing data on light and color intensities of a frame of reference, captured with a lens system and matrix of light sensitive transistors. The resulting data is stored in a file called an "Image".

    OR worse

    This is a novel method of representing nothing. In the past, nothing was always something. We propose a special character that represents nothing (the lack of something) to be used in communication purposes. We shall call this character the "zero."

  • by Anonymous Coward
    In case you don't know, this article was submited by Daniel Eran who was caught spamming Digg with his useless articles...

    Check out how he was caught:
    http://ba01162.googlepages.com/RoughlyDraftedBUSTE D.html [googlepages.com]
  • by MrSquishy (916581) on Monday December 04 2006, @11:26AM (#17100114)
    phone company, film maker, computer maker and video producer
    Hmm... phone company, film maker, computer maker and video producer.
    It also doesnt exist in "Prior Art".

    My god, they have found 3) ????:
    3) Patent the letter "E"
    4) Profit!
  • A link within TFA showed:

    "A recent out-of-court settlement between Apple Computer and the owner of the patent that covers the downloading of music and video with the ability to play music and video on a device (technology essential to the iPod and other music and video technology)"

    That's pretty major.

    Here's the link:
    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061130/lath054.html?.v =80 [yahoo.com]
  • by ThosLives (686517) on Monday December 04 2006, @11:40AM (#17100306) Journal

    My favorite is the line in the article about how without patents there would be no incentive for pharmas to, say, develop a new treatment.

    Innovation will always be driven by necessity, not by profit. That, and laziness: if I can invent a cotton gin so I don't have to spend hours and hours picking seeds out of cotton by hand, what do I care if I don't have a patent on it? My life is still simpler. What about drugs? If enough people are getting sick, then people will pool together their resources and develop a treatment. Sure, it might not happen in the same way we know things today, but I think that patents are a form of competition, and I'm beginning to think that cooperation is a more powerful force in economics than competition, despite the prevalent thinking.

    • Eli Whitney cared (Score:5, Insightful)

      by kansas1051 (720008) on Monday December 04 2006, @12:07PM (#17100718)
      That, and laziness: if I can invent a cotton gin so I don't have to spend hours and hours picking seeds out of cotton by hand, what do I care if I don't have a patent on it?

      Eli Whitney, and the U.S Congress certainly cared. Although Whitney was able to patent his cotton gin, the U.S. patent laws at the time (under the first Patent Act of 1790) were so weak he was unable to enforce his patent and nearly went bankrupt. Whitney himself sold few cotton gins as large manufacturers could undercut his prices due to their established distribution chains. The next two patent acts (1810 and 1836) were drafted with Whitney's story in mind and provided greater protection for inventors (Abraham Lincoln's famous "patents are the fuel for the fire of innovation" quote was referring to the 1836 act).

      So, out of all the examples you could pick as to why patents don't matter, Whitney's cotton gin isn't one of them (it is probably the worst possible example).

      • Ok, so maybe Eli Whitney's case isn't the best to use to support my case; however, my example is that particular device - or something similar - would be invented anyway even without patents. Indeed, your example proves my point there; the cotton gin was invented without the benefit of a good patent system!

        I think as long as people have enough resources and free time, innovation will occur just because some people like to innovate.

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward
          The cotton gin is the perfect example. After all, it was invented? So the system did not make him rich. BFD. Had he NOT spent his time trying to collect royalties (rent seeking), and instead produced value, then maybe he would have faired better. Back then, the big guys took his shit and ran with it. Add 200 years of reform and what happens: the big guys just take shit and run with it. No matter how clever your patent, if you try to sell something using it, other aspects of your device may be covere
      • So, out of all the examples you could pick as to why patents don't matter, Whitney's cotton gin isn't one of them (it is probably the worst possible example).

        Not that this article [wikipedia.org] is authoritative, but I have heard similar claims in the past and wouldn't doubt them a bit. Apparently there are several possible inventors of the cotton gin around the time Eli Whitney got his patent. Most likely several people influenced the design, but Eli Whitney just happened to be the first to submit a patent application
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        Necessity for drugs is not going to drive development. Money is.

        Exactly, and there's no reason patents are needed. Other industries still make products there is demand for, without ever registering a single patent.

        Pharma research costs big money, because 1) paying your PHDs to do the research, and maintaining research facilities, costs quite a lot, and 2) the FDA approval process is costly and takes years.

        They spend more on advertising than they do on research. The FDA thing is another government created
  • by Animats (122034) on Monday December 04 2006, @12:14PM (#17100806) Homepage

    So we have an press release about a supposed Apple patent. The article doesn't identify the patent or give the patent number. Then we have a blog entry about the press release about the supposed patent. That doesn't identify the patent. Then we have the Slashdot article about the blog entry about the press release. Which doesn't identify the patent either. The end result is a clueless Slashdot article.

    The actual patent is US# 5,864,868 (Contois, January 26, 1999), "Computer control system and user interface for media playing devices". The main claim is:

    1. A computer user interface menu selection process for allowing the user to select music to be played on a music device controlled by a computer, comprising the steps of:
    a) simultaneously displaying on a display device, at least two individual data fields selected from music categories, composers, artists, and songs;
    b) selecting at least one item from at least one of the data fields;
    c) in response to step b), redisplaying all data fields not having an item selected therefrom with data related only to the at least one item selected in step b), and simultaneously maintaining all items originally displayed in the data fields with at lest one item selected therefrom;
    d) selecting an item in the songs data field in response to step c), and
    e) playing the selected song item from step d) on the computer responsive music device.

    So it's an interface for a specific format of playlist interaction. Some players might have to change their interfaces a bit. Big deal.

  • Cheaper To Fight It (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DrKyle (818035) on Monday December 04 2006, @12:25PM (#17100992)
    If I was one of the corporations that Apple tried to extort by buying this patent I would just form a nice alliance of lawyers with the other "infringers" and fight the thing tooth and nail. There is probably a better chance of spending 100 million getting the patent voided than giving Apple a billion and bending over.
    • If I was one of the corporations that Apple tried to extort by buying this patent I would just form a nice alliance of lawyers with the other "infringers" and fight the thing tooth and nail. There is probably a better chance of spending 100 million getting the patent voided than giving Apple a billion and bending over.

      If you were one of the corporations that Apple tried to extort, you'd be a sociopath, willing to fund a shadow war of assassination and terror to dominate your market. Sue you for patent inf

  • to even get a patent when there is so much obvious prior art already in exisitence?
    Are the patent office asleep?
    More to the point, why can apple think they stand a chance in court?
    Surely everyone apple attempts to sue can easily get out of it by proving they had prior art?
    • Apple knows it would not stand up in court. It also knows it is valid enough that they could get sued, so Apple bought the patent from the company who threatend Apple with it before they got tied up in a messy legal battle dealing with another stupid patent aka the Creative BS.
    • More likely they're overworked and underpaid.
  • If Apple follows through on a "good" patent and pisses off a lot of people, it might just be the spark to get the current patenting overturned and software patents outlawed.
  • by bill_mcgonigle (4333) * on Monday December 04 2006, @01:45PM (#17102250) Homepage Journal
    Science Friday had a good episode [libsyn.com] last week covering some of the more absurd patents and the culture at the USPTO.
    • Nope, it will be the citizens of the country. The attornies can already buy their short term safety.
    • Depends who initiates the revolution - given the increasing number of people joining the legal proffesion, and the consistent bad press they get, some might just sanp and go 'legal'...
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Wow, you're a bright one aren't you? Take a look at Mac hardware... it's practically IDENTICAL to PC hardware, including that of graphics processors. The problem isn't hardware, it's software companies not willing to port games on mac. And from what I've seen since I bought my MacBook, any games that are on here run so damn well that it's not funny.
      • by VGPowerlord (621254) on Monday December 04 2006, @02:39PM (#17103068) Homepage
        Wow, you're a bright one aren't you? Take a look at Mac hardware... it's practically IDENTICAL to PC hardware, including that of graphics processors. The problem isn't hardware, it's software companies not willing to port games on mac. And from what I've seen since I bought my MacBook, any games that are on here run so damn well that it's not funny.

        It's also been that way for all of a year now?

        Then again, software these days rarely, if ever, interact directly with the hardware. APIs are what matters now, and unfortunately APIs are something Microsoft has in spades.

        Microsoft pushes for developers on Windows to use DirectX so that the game they create aren't portable. If they were to use OpenGL, or even worse for Microsoft, SDL [libsdl.org], they could build portable games. Do you really think Microsoft wants that?
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          First of all, any use of OSX on a PC platform is a royal pain in the ass because it requires you to do so many workarounds... why even bother. If you're a person who actually needs OSX (designers, videographers, etc) then you will buy the hardware because you know its worth it. If you don't have a need to use one, yeah, you don't get one... and porting games isn't as big of a deal as people think... there are at least a few companies still dedicated to not screwing over mac users (read BLIZZARD).
        • by be-fan (61476) on Monday December 04 2006, @12:18PM (#17100868)

          Practically identical to PC hardware but much more costly, which is exactly why I stick to PCs, especially now that you can run OSX on just about any PC.The reason most software companies don't port games to mac is because the audience is so much smaller it's just not worth their time and money.
          Have you looked at Mac prices since the Intel transition? All across the lines, the machines are extremely price-competitive. The iMac and Macbook are within 10% of a comparable PC, and the PowerMac severely undercuts a comparable PC (even if you build it yourself!). Just about the only machine that still carries a premium is the Macbook Pro.