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HP's Dunn Stepping Down

Posted by Zonk on Tue Sep 12, 2006 09:34 AM
from the backlash dept.
XJHardware writes "Yahoo news is reporting that Patricia Dunn is stepping down from the chair of HP." From the article: "Hurd will retain his existing positions as chief executive and president and Dunn will remain as a director after she relinquishes the chair on Jan. 18. 'I am taking action to ensure that inappropriate investigative techniques will not be employed again. They have no place in HP,' Hurd said in a statement. Dunn apologized for the techniques used in the company's probe, which included 'pretexting' in which private investigators impersonated board members and journalists to acquire their phone records."
+ -
story

Related Stories

[+] HP Spying Incident Included Journalists 177 comments
rufey writes "It is now being reported that the HP boardroom spying incident that occurred earlier this year also involved obtaining phone records of journalists from at least two news outlets. Journalists from CNET and the Wall Street Journal had their phone records obtained through a method called 'pretexting' to see who, if any, of the HP board members the journalists may have been in contact with."
[+] HP Witch Hunt Also Targeted Reporter's Father 149 comments
theodp writes "Patriciagate gets even stranger. In a twist that indicates the extent of HP's investigation, the CA Attorney General's office said HP's investigators also targeted the personal phone records of CNET reporter Stephen Shankland's father, Thomas, a semi-retired physicist in New Mexico. The scandal prompts CNNMoney to ask Chairwoman Patricia Dunn: Are you lying or incompetent? An emergency HP Board meeting is scheduled for Sunday."
[+] HP's Dunn as Newsweek Cover Girl 198 comments
theodp writes "In The Boss Who Spied on Her Board, Newsweek likens HP Chairwoman Pattie Dunn's attempts to escape culpability with her I-knew-nothing defense to both a head of state, who wants 'plausible deniability' while ordering an assassination plot, and to Henry II, who had the Archbishop of Canterbury removed by simply muttering 'Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?' in front of his knights."
[+] Politics: Congress Asks HP for Information 106 comments
An anonymous reader writes "Yahoo! is reporting that HP has been asked by Congress to turn over records related to the internal investigation of possible illegal media leaks. This request came as a part of the continuing look by the U.S. House Energy and Commerce Committee into 'pretexting.' From the article: 'The Federal Communications Commission has also taken interest in HP, asking AT&T Inc. last week how the company's private investigators managed to obtain the private phone records of board members and journalists. Following the investigation, board member George Keyworth II was identified as the source of the leak, and HP responded by barring him from seeking re-election.'"
[+] Calif. AG Files Felony Charges In HP Probe 171 comments
PreacherTom writes, "Former Hewlett-Packard Chair Patricia Dunn, along with 'ethics chief' Kevin Hunsaker and others, was indicted yesterday on four felony counts by the California Attorney General. The charges, including wire fraud and conspiracy, carry a maximum penalty of 12 years in prison and $30,000 in fines. The indictments follow on the heels of an HP investigation of internal leaks that conducted "bugged" emails to C-Net reporter Dawn Kawamoto, illicitly obtained hundreds of phone numbers, and spied on HP board members." One of the indictments was for a private investigator retained by HP. The article has links to the complaints and warrants.
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  • by eldavojohn (898314) * <my/.username@@@gmail.com> on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:35AM (#16088356) Homepage Journal
    This really isn't a surprise if HP wanted to hold together as a company. This damage may be deeper than you think as their Head of Global Operations, Giles Bouchard is leaving [theinquirer.net] by October 31st. It doesn't indicate what his reasons are but he's been working there for two years, why now? Will we see others follow or will Dunn's resignation stop others from jumping ship?
    • by biglig2 (89374) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:39AM (#16088370) Homepage Journal
      She's remaining a director after scamming the phone records of other directors? Frankly the entire board should go: the crooks should go because they're crooks, and the rest should go because they're crazy to stay on the board of a company that does this sort of thing.

      By the way, isn't this sort of thing kind of illegal? Shouldn't people be going to jail?
      • by operagost (62405) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:52AM (#16088456) Homepage Journal
        Well, Kevin Mitnick got himself jail time doing this sort of thing. The only difference is that, not being a company insider, he had to start from scratch. When you already have people's SSNs because you are a high-level executive with power or influence over HR, it should be trivial.
      • A corporate officer? Going to jail? What are you, some kind of communist?

        Look what happened the last time we put a corporate officer in jail, he had a heart attack. Your jealousy of the rich & powerful is overwhelmingly hateful in its magnitude.

        Won't somebody think of the CEOs, oh the horror of it all!!!
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          CEOs of Big Companies were not made to suffer the indignity of being subject to so vulgar a thing as "the law".

          Tell it to Ken Lay, Bernie Ebbers, and Michael Milken.

          I'm sure this class-warfare rhetoric of yoursgoes over great with impressionable undergrads, but the fact of the matter is that wealth doesn't shield anyone from prosecution.

          -jcr
          • by spun (1352) <[loverevolutionary] [at] [yahoo.com]> on Tuesday September 12 2006, @11:13AM (#16089018) Journal
            Bullshit. For every CEO jailed to keep the masses appeased, 10 more who did far worse go free. At that level of wealth and power, 90% of the people are sociopaths if not outright psychopaths. You can chant "class warfare rhetoric" with your fingers in your ears all you want, but the fact is, they know the difference, and we simply do not matter to people like that. They screw us over all the time, and when the story breaks, someone has to be sacrificed to appease the masses and keep up the illusion that it's only a "few bad apples" instead of a bushel of rotten worm infested fruit. Class is still an issues, as much as the owning class would like you to believe it isn't. Why do 10% of the people own and control 90% of the resources? Unless you are making over a million a year, you simply have no interests in common with these people, and anyone who defends them or mocks those who speak of class issues is traitor to their own kind, a toading sycophant who hopes that if they talk the owning class talk, they'll be let into the club. The only way your getting into that club is as a busboy.
                    • Estate tax is a good place to start, but I'm an old school anarchist of the Proudhon variety, and I believe that property is theft. Not personal property, but natural resources. There is no justification for fencing off land and taking away other people's freedom to use it. You have to have labored over something before you have a right to call it your own, and you have to own something before you have a right to keep others from using it. Therefore, no one has any justification in holding natural resources as their own.

                      I have not come up with the perfect solution to this dilemma. As Proudhon also, less famously said, property is also the only real protection against tyranny and is inherently anarchistic because it respects no king or lord. I feel their are two choices, Proudhon's idea of communal control of resources or some form of distributarianism. In communal control there is the plus that the process of deciding on how to use resources is democratic, but without a strong constitution and a system of checks and balances this can lead to a tyranny of the majority. With distributarianism, everyone owns their little portion of the means of production, but who arbitrates this ownership, and how do we ensure that the means are distribuited equitably.

                      There are many problems with the free market as a system of arbitration. It requires perfect information on the part of all actors to work efficiently. It can not correctly value the costs and benefits of externalities. It does not operate efficiently where the marginal cost of entry into markets is very high (commonly known as a monopoly.) It has no negative feedback cycle to prevent a runaway accumulation of wealth by a few people. The more wealth one has, the easier it is to make more by using your wealth to game the system and ensure their isn't a level playing field. The free market can not think ahead and come up with solutions. It can only say what isn't working, not what might work better, and if what might work better is locked out due to any of the previously mentioned root causes of market failure, we will be stuck with what we have.

                      We have a system that expects and rewards selfishness. So much so that even though the majority of people have been shown in modern economic experiments to favor fairness and reciprocity over personal gain, they will act selfishly rather than cooperatively because that is what the system rewards. In fact, the system gives free reign to screw over the naturally cooperative (and this is a large part of the reason behind my "bad luck." I'm too nice and too trusting, and I am not willing to sell out that part of myself just to get ahead.)

                      Remember, your friends, relatives and acquantences are not a random sample of the population. You have probably not met the legions of people for whom the system has not worked, despite their best efforts, so it is no stretch for you to think of those people in the abstract sense, and to believe that they had all the opportunities that you did. It's just easier to think that they are where they are because they are lazy than to feel like you have to change the whole system.
    • Perkins quit when he heard about the spying and lying. He held his fire, then he outed Dunn and the board. The company was supposed to disclose why Hackborn quit when he did. And the board should have disclosed the investigation started by Dunn as well as the results of the investigation.

      I agree that the rest of the board, including Hackborn, has some responsibility. But how to get rid of them? I usually withhold my votes, but the big institutions usually vote for the boards.
  • Pretexting?? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Harmonious Botch (921977) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:36AM (#16088360) Homepage Journal
    Maybe I'm old-fashioned. But in my day we called it 'lying'.
    • This must be some sort of joke. Every single article about this event has gone out of its way to mention pretexting? I smell a conspiracy.
    • Re:Pretexting?? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Chris Burke (6130) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:52AM (#16088458) Homepage
      Well, obviously the name "pretexting" is a lie itself, designed to cover up the uglier truth of "lying". It's all part of marketing corporate-speak, in which negative aspects of what you do are covered up through language trickery, in this case making up a word that nobody knows the meaning of.

      I'm rather pleased that they have failed to pull the wool over anyone's eyes, but the fact that the word keeps getting repeated is bothersome. The news outlets should only be using that word in the context of explaining Dunn's lame attempt to cover up for fraud.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Here on uber-leet slashdot, we call it 'social engineering'.
    • Re:Pretexting?? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Himring (646324) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:55AM (#16088476) Homepage Journal
      This truly boggles the mind. I work at a large corporation and watch/put up with insanity every day. It seems, at times, that the higher up you go the more insane things are. The old tale of "The Emporer's New Clothes," where insanity leads to a king walking naked down the streets, and only a child can see the truth, applies greatly.

      I could write volumes on things that have happened in my career, but this HP debacle takes the cake. And the thing is, they feel entirely in their rights while they were doing it, after they were doing it and on up until they realized that they really had to explain themselves. They are confessing now because they got caught, not because they really felt it to be wrong. Thus are the ills of capitalism.

      As a wise man once said: "Capitalism is the notion that evil men, doing evil things, will bring about the greatest good...." Or something to that effect....

      • Re:Pretexting?? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Pharmboy (216950) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @10:11AM (#16088571) Journal
        I am pretty sure that Communism had plenty of examples of spying and evil deeds. To assign this purely to the "ills of capitalism" demonstrates you are prejudiced against capitalism in general. My bet is that Ms. Dunn would be just as much of an ass if she were in power in a communist economy.

        Capitalism does not require people act unethically, illegally or immorally. My fear is that people like you will simply use this situation to "prove" how capitalism is bad (and why whatever brand of economics you prefer is "right"), rather than understand it for what it is: PEOPLE that are bad, and would be just as bad, in any other economic system.

        Another pisser is that by blaming capitalism, you are releasing her from fault, as it is "capitalism" that is at fault, and not an overzealous and unethical person, Ms. Dunn. She shares the blame with no one.
          • The problem is that you mentioned capitalism, as though you were saying something distinctive about it, or that different economic systems might not have powerful people who think they can get away with being assholes.

            Imagine if I went to the zoo and dropped 16-ton weights on all the animals. They all died. Then I said, "The problem with parrots is that they fail to resist a 16-ton weight." It sounds like I'm talking about parrots, but parrots actually have nothing to do with it. The real issue is the

              • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                I only have a couple of years on you, but my bitter cynicism is directed toward the government and those who are elected on promises they have no intention of keeping. What give ME faith in capitalism is that it is practiced by everyday people, every day. Most of them are pretty good people, and most people are smart enough to know a bad one when they see them. Dunn is not just a bad Chairman, but a bad person.

                Winston Churchill put it best: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of bless
                • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                  I have no doubt that Ms Dunn has character issues.

                  And she owns that.

                  Capitalism has a flaw in that it "prefers" ( as an
                  emergent behaviour ) people without character for high
                  positions like this. Because those people will do
                  whatever it takes, regardless of of ethics or legality,
                  and that makes more money.
      • by Colin Smith (2679) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @10:26AM (#16088687)
        Thus are the ills of capitalism.

        As a wise man once said: "Capitalism is the notion that evil men, doing evil things, will bring about the greatest good...." Or something to that effect....


        Whoever said that was a fool, not a wise man. Capitalism has never been anything to do with right, wrong, good or evil, it's about self interest. It's human nature and will happen no matter what type of society we have. What do you propose as an alternative?

         
  • Pretexting (Score:4, Interesting)

    by TheRecklessWanderer (929556) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:37AM (#16088362) Journal
    So calling the phone company and pretending to be somebody else to get their records is called Pretexting??? I kinda thought that was called fraud. As for Dunn stepping down, the buck stops here, and if she can't keep control of her ship, then she would step down. Of course, it's probably a case of Nixonitis, i.e. everybody does it, but HP got caught.
    • Re:Pretexting (Score:4, Insightful)

      by CerebusUS (21051) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:40AM (#16088378)
      Step down? Shouldn't someone go to jail for this? I agree it's fraud, let's treat it as such.
      • by Fishstick (150821) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @11:09AM (#16088992) Journal
        but for some reason the idiodic press thought it was really cool and neat to invent a new word nobody would understand


        close, the idiotic federal government apparently thought it needed an important sounding new word

        There ought to be a law... There is! [ftc.gov]

        Pretexting: Your Personal Information Revealed

        When you think of your own personal assets, chances are your home, car, and savings and investments come to mind. But what about your Social Security number (SSN), telephone records and your bank and credit card account numbers? To people known as "pretexters," that information is a personal asset, too.

        Pretexting is the practice of getting your personal information under false pretenses. Pretexters sell your information to people who may use it to get credit in your name, steal your assets, or to investigate or sue you. Pretexting is against the law.

        How Pretexting Works
        Pretexters use a variety of tactics to get your personal information. For example, a pretexter may call, claim he's from a survey firm, and ask you a few questions. When the pretexter has the information he wants, he uses it to call your financial institution. He pretends to be you or someone with authorized access to your account. He might claim that he's forgotten his checkbook and needs information about his account. In this way, the pretexter may be able to obtain personal information about you such as your SSN, bank and credit card account numbers, information in your credit report, and the existence and size of your savings and investment portfolios.

        Keep in mind that some information about you may be a matter of public record, such as whether you own a home, pay your real estate taxes, or have ever filed for bankruptcy. It is not pretexting for another person to collect this kind of information.

        There Ought to Be a Law -- There Is
        Under federal law -- the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act -- it's illegal for anyone to:

                * use false, fictitious or fraudulent statements or documents to get customer information from a financial institution or directly from a customer of a financial institution.
                * use forged, counterfeit, lost, or stolen documents to get customer information from a financial institution or directly from a customer of a financial institution.
                * ask another person to get someone else's customer information using false, fictitious or fraudulent statements or using false, fictitious or fraudulent documents or forged, counterfeit, lost, or stolen documents.

        The Federal Trade Commission Act also generally prohibits pretexting for sensitive consumer information.


  • HP Boise (Score:3, Interesting)

    by WED Fan (911325) <akahige&trashmail,net> on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:39AM (#16088369) Homepage Journal

    I left HP, Boise during the disaster that was Carly.

    Her "I-came-up-from-the-mailroom" speech was enough to make most in the Departmental LaserJet Division to wretch. But, at least she didn't go all Richard Nixon on everyone and send out eaves-dropping goon squads.

  • by onkelonkel (560274) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:40AM (#16088384)
    When you hit the cover of Newsweek as a shining example of corporate misbehaviour, it's safe to say your days are numbered.
    • Re:No Big Surprise (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Pharmboy (216950) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @10:16AM (#16088609) Journal
      When you hit the cover of Newsweek as a shining example of corporate misbehaviour, it's safe to say your days are numbered.

      Two words: Book Deal

      This is America, where we celebrate those that do wrong and actually had to make a LAW that says if you murder or rape someone, you can't make money off any books/tv deals (but other crimes, and it's ok). Think about that, that means that people will buy books written by these criminals, and make the criminals potentially RICH, if you don't make it illegal. Might even get a "made for TV movie" out of it.
  • I am taking action to ensure that inappropriate investigative techniques will not be employed again. They have no place in HP


    Urr, isn't this just stating the obvious since she's the one responsible for the inappropriate techniques in the first place. Or at least, she signed off on them in some fashion. Isn't this a little like a thief retiring from thievery so that no more robberies will be committed?
  • FTA: (emphasis mine)
    Hewlett-Packard Co. said Tuesday that Patricia Dunn will step down as chairwoman of the computer and printer maker in January amid a widening scandal involving a possibly illegal probe into media leaks. She will be succeeded by CEO Mark Hurd. Hurd will retain his existing positions as chief executive and president and Dunn will remain as a director.
    Strange. So she knew about illegal practices being carried out because of her request, and then continues to have a seat??

    Why is it that I get a visit from the police when I do some good ole' social engineering and get caught? And this woman gets a seat as a director?
    • She wont have one for long. They usually allow them to have a seat because its tough to kick them outright without the person being able to use something to legally screw the people doing the kicking out. But they will make her stay so much hell (keeping he missinformed, talking behind her back, things that would be considered harrasement but hard to prove in court) that after 2-3 months she'll want to leave.
  • It's badPR when your CEO gets arrested for wire fraud...
    • She's not the CEO. She's the chairman. Hurd is the CEO. At HP the responsibilites for those two offices are divided.
  • I guess... (Score:3, Funny)

    by chriswaclawik (859112) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:45AM (#16088420)
    I guess you can say his time at HP is... DUNN for! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... sigh.
  • Have the phone companies, or any other company that deals with customer's sensitive data is to mail the report to the person's mailing address along with a letter saying that you asked for this data to be sent, from a phone call on this date, from such-n-such phone number.
    They should then refuse, 100% to fax or email the information out.
    Change of address? Certainly, after we send out a letter confirming your address change.

    Just like when I change my address (or do anything else) with my 401(k), IRAs, and b
  • Hooray! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Captain Sarcastic (109765) * on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:47AM (#16088435)
    At least she did the right thing there.

    I don't know if it was a King Richard II thing ("Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?") or if it was a cold-blooded decision ("Commander, tear this ship apart, and bring me the passengers... ahem, I mean, dig up anything and everything you can on whoever seems a likely target."), but either way there was no way that HP could have kept any customer or shareholder faith with her remaining at the helm.

    What I find interesting is that the Justice department is checking this "pretexting" business out. Are they interested in prosecuting it... or duplicating it?
  • Screw That (Score:2, Insightful)

    At least the slimy mofo George Keyworth who was blabbing to the press got his name slimed.
    • by twitter (104583) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @11:24AM (#16089113) Homepage Journal

      At least the slimy mofo George Keyworth who was blabbing to the press got his name slimed.

      I'd love to know just what he "leaked" and why you hate him for doing it. The nearest I can tell from reading the Wikipedia, the "leak" was about Fiorina's $42,000,000 severance package which has two HP investors suing HP for violating their own payment caps. If that's all there is, Keyworth is a whistle blower. If you know something, I'd love to hear it.

  • by mre5565 (305546) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:50AM (#16088451)
    The CEO is now the chairman of the board. While
    Hurd was probably exasperated, and rightly felt
    he had to take the reigns to prevent further
    damage to his company, the post-Enron concept
    of an independent board has just taken a big
    step backward. In the long run this is bad
    for shareholders (not just HP shareholders).
  • Now ... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:51AM (#16088452)
    Dunn: "Now, just give me my 'agreed-upon compensation that will pay the salary for 100 people over a lifetime' and I'll be gone."
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:54AM (#16088470)
    crushing a woman simply because she is powerful. Well, and amoral. Illegal, too.

    Anyway, it's just the establishment putting someone down just because they are female and criminal.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      No need to attach her gender to the issue. Criminal is enough.

      Curiously, I've always felt that board members were inherently criminal ;-) For the most part, board member seats are used to gain inside access to politics and favor within other large corporations. It's scary to see just how interconnected boards really are.
  • High Crimes (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby (173196) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @10:02AM (#16088526) Homepage Journal
    Enough of this "pretexting" mumbo jumbo. It's "lying", fraud. Just because an exec does it doesn't require a euphamism to protect them from punishment like a mere human would get. They're not royalty who must be referred to with a "royal we" or "your highness". Their problems aren't "issues".

    They're criminals. If anything, their crimes are worse, because they have more power and do more damage, while requiring more trust.
  • I find it offensive (Score:4, Interesting)

    by tkrotchko (124118) * on Tuesday September 12 2006, @10:08AM (#16088556) Homepage
    I find out that people won't calling what they did by the proper name:
          LYING

    Pretexting? It sounds so much nicer, like what a kid would do to talk to their friends on a cell phone. And I blame the press for buying into it and reporting it rather than saying "Patricia Dunn lied to the phone company to fraudulently obtain phone records".

  • by Yuioup (452151) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @10:14AM (#16088589)
    So maybe now GNU/Hurd will finally be Dunn...

    Y
    • HP is going to be roiled hard over this when the state and feds get done. there will be new law, and pretexting is going to be outlawed. HP is going to stain like a cheap rug when Congress is done with them.

      Cause Sony's sure hurting after pissing off the DoD with those rootkits...

      Sad but true, give this 6 months, who's going to remember Pattie Dunn's little wiretapping? They'll go back to making their subpar consumer printers and whatnot and keep chugging along.
    • by scardicat (987721) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @09:57AM (#16088494)
      As a former employee of HP, I must agree. Today's HP is a far cry from the ethical 'roots in the garage' company I once used to be proud of. They fire workers who get anything done and keep the filth - it must be stinking up there now. I am watching with tears in my eyes, as Hurd and his band are tearing up the legacy of Bill and Dave. Bill and Dave must be rolling in their graves. May their souls rest in peace. HP still has some great engineers, but it wont be long before they all get booted out. From a company of engineers in overalls building amazing products, its turning into a place with PHBs in suits. RIP HP. scardicat
      • by $RANDOMLUSER (804576) on Tuesday September 12 2006, @10:47AM (#16088863)
        I know just what you mean. I remember years ago when the HP Field Service guys would come out, it was like a visit from the Federal Marshals they were so not fucking around. Those guys could glance at a hex error code on an LCD and tell you (from memory) that SIMM #5 had failed, or tell you that CPU #3 had failed by the taste of the dust on top of the cabinet. Then they'd go out to their trunk and get a new CPU card for your T500 or 847 or whatever because they remembered which model you had and brought one along "just in case"...

        Those days started to die with Lou Platt; Carly killed and buried them; the current crop of clowns are just dancing on their grave.