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Settlement Good News for MotorolaV710 Owners
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Wed Oct 12, 2005 04:57 AM
from the sometimes-the-good-guys-win dept.
from the sometimes-the-good-guys-win dept.
bluebanzai writes "When hordes of people bought up the Motorola V710 upon its release a year ago, Slashdot readers may remember many impressive features including the cutting edge Bluetooth features (picture/mp3 transfer, wireless syncing) as described on Motorola's website. However, when used with the popular Verizon Wireless cell phone service provider, many Bluetooth features were sadly crippled (apart from a wireless headset) because OBEX features had been purposely disabled by Verizon. Hundreds of people donated to a hacker rewards program to unlock the full features of the phone to the tune of $3000, but was never fully successful.
Well, one year later, the Los Angeles Superior Court (PDF Warning) and Verizon have announced the initial steps of a Class Action Lawsuit that appears to be influenced by the user community allowing everyone who bought it before the start of 2005 a few options for compensation--including a refund up to the purchase price of another phone which, interestingly enough, is a lot easier to hack."
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How about... (Score:5, Insightful)
How about Verizon just stop crippling their customers and unlock the locked features?
Re:How about... (Score:5, Funny)
If they did that, then you could easily create your own wallpapers and mp3 ringtones on your PC and transfer them to your telephone by Bluetooth. This is obviously wrong, and the sort of thing only pirates would do. Therefore the phone company locks down the features, and you can then pay a modest sum of money for professionally-created multimedia products of much better quality. Isn't the Company great, looking out for you like that?
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The MONOPOLY industry. (Score:3, Insightful)
Basically, we have an industry which makes loads of cash by preventing their customers from using technology to make things cheaper and more efficient. It is in the industry's interest to make sure that we download expensive ring tones and backgrounds from them, rather than simply using an MP3 or an image downloaded from the web.
In other words: This industry artificially m
Re:The MONOPOLY industry. (Score:5, Insightful)
Where I come from the carrier doesn't "activate" the phone. I just bung my SIM chip in and use it.
Isn't it funny that your free market has produced monopolies that screw the customer and our regulated one has produced competition?
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Re:The MONOPOLY industry. (Score:3, Interesting)
I would say you're the one with the free market, my friend. I've been saying it for years..."a free market is a regulated market" (but not necessarily the reverse case).
Case in point? The U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission (SEC) which regulates our stock markets. You would never have gotten the general public investing in the stock market like it does today without
Re:How about... (Score:5, Funny)
They don't just cripple the phones, they also cripple their customers? I didn't know that they are that bad
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Re:How about... (Score:2)
thats the problem with US phone networks (Score:5, Insightful)
In any other part of the world, you buy your own phone from wherever you choose (even another country) and just plug in a sim card from your chosen provider and it just works.
If any provier here tried to pull those tricks, the market would take care of the problem very quickly.
Is GSM actually getting any foothold in the US market?
Re:thats the problem with US phone networks (Score:5, Interesting)
Still, it's great to see them getting their due. Their attempt to lock up basic features in the US market is ridiculous, and hopefully this practice will end soon.
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Re:thats the problem with US phone networks (Score:3, Informative)
Not true at all. I work for a wireless engineering firm in the DC area and have done quite a bit of work with a wide range of cellular equipment from all carriers. Verizon's EV-DO data service with a burst max of 2.4Mbps is the absolute best available right now, period. It will like
Re:thats the problem with US phone networks (Score:4, Interesting)
I've had one for a few months now, and I'm at least as disappointed with it as my buddy is with his Verizon V710. First, and most on-topic with this discussion, the bluetooth stack is incredibly buggy! If I try to use OBEX to browse its files, I can sometimes get files in and out of the phone, and sometimes not. And virtually any time I use OBEX or connect from any Windows XP machine (three different machines, three different manufacturer's Bluetooth devices) the Bluetooth on the phone goes south, and it will refuse to even acknowledge a headset afterwards. I need to pull and replace the battery to get it to come back.
And my complaints go much further. The phone does not support OBEX browsing of other phones (like my Sony-Ericsson T637 could do.) It does not support 24/7 discoverability, restricting it to 60 seconds max. It does not support an "advanced headset profile" (again like the T637) where it doesn't establish the Bluetooth headset connection until a call is made, allowing me to use Bluetooth networking even in the presence of a powered up headset. That's a very important feature with a hands-free car kit. Overall, bluetooth functionality on this phone is on a par with the V710 - a lot of promise, but nothing delivered.
And then it suffers from all the other endemic Motorola problems. It has the world's worst address book application, which cannot handle the simple task of storing multiple numbers per contact, instead creating new contacts for each number. It also suffers from a byzantine one-touch speed dial reconfiguration mechanism. Their whole speed dial thing is still based on the "order" in which numbers are stored, so if you want to change speed dials you have to first renumber the old record, then renumber the new record into its place. And it takes it about a minute to boot -- I have no idea what can be taking it so long. Finally, even though the phone is perfectly capable of shooting video, (there are mods to turn it on) it's not available out of the box.
There are some really good features on the phone though that I do like: battery life is very, very good. Audio quality is excellent. The camera is a crisp 640x480. Voice dial recognition has impressive performance, especially in the noisy environment of my car using the handsfree kit. And of course it's small and light. But overall, it's far short of a "great" phone. I was much happier with my T637.
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Re:thats the problem with US phone networks (Score:3, Informative)
Re:thats the problem with US phone networks (Score:5, Informative)
Like CDMA carriers, GSM isn't problem free.
For example, if you buy a GSM phone, it is most likely locked to the carrier you bought it from. Why do they do this? Because most phones are either "free" or "discountted" with the signing of a contract.
Now, I figure they lock phones for 3 purposes:
1. If your family member destroys their phone somehow, your "locked" phone won't work because they have a different carrier. Thus, they'll be forced to buy a new phone.
2. So you can pay their roaming/international charges when you travel (because a locally bought SIM doesn't work on the locked phone).
3. Profit!
Thankfully, unlock codes/reflashing can easily be done if you know where to find a code calculator, or willing to buy a $10 data cable.
Grump
Unlocked Siemens S40, Mot V400.
Unlocked half my family's nokia phones.
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Re:thats the problem with US phone networks (Score:4, Funny)
Grump
Unlocked Siemens S40, Mot V400.
Unlocked half my family's nokia phones.
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still looking for a wife...
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Re:thats the problem with US phone networks (Score:3, Informative)
Only the major US carriers use "locked phones", smaller regional carriers can't afford to pay the manufacturers to lock their phones. (These fees also include the special logos, menus, and apps) So, if you purchase a GSM phone (CDMA is another story) from one of these small guys, odds are that it won't be sim locked. This means you can use it with any service provider. No hacks required. The only real drawback is that these small carriers don't always carry the latest tech due to cost. As for
Not just US, UK too (Score:2)
Each operator seems to tailor some of the interface for their network. Vodaphone are well known for butchering the interface, many people are known to flash back to manufacturer sourced firmware where possible as the interface mods can be annoying.
Re:thats the problem with US phone networks (Score:3, Insightful)
Doesn't seem quite so bad, but they still do annoying things in the UK.
IE. you get a free phone from vodafone, it is locked to the vodafone network so you have to pay 10 quid down the local corner shop to get it unlocked if you want to use it on another network.
Then vodafone put firmware on it that maps various function keys to automatically launch the browser and go to their "live!" website, and you can't map the button to more useful functions, e.g. launch new txt msg.
Of course you can alw
Re:thats the problem with US phone networks (Score:3, Informative)
The REAL winners (Score:3, Interesting)
are the lawyers with (fta) 6.3 million dollars + 60k expenses
seems everyday to a lawyer is like winning the lottery except you win every time !
now all they need to decide is which to buy , a speedboat or a Lear jet..hmmmm decisions decisions
steps to profit (for lawyers only) (Score:3, Insightful)
Step 2: Find group of disgruntled customers and file class action suit, and let them pay you.
Step 3: Profit from step 1 & 2, with in step 2 the added bonus of a percentage of the settlement.
Re:The REAL winners (Score:3, Insightful)
Verizon is horrible about this (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure, you CAN add custom photos and ringtones, which I might do if I had to pay ONCE for, but Verizon charges a monthly fee just for having them on your phone. It's a blatent ripoff and I got tired of being fucked by Verizon.
I don't have any input on them crippling bluetooth, but frankly it doesn't suprise me. This company is a shit providor and I don't understand why anyone has their service. I'm sure they will offer better Bluetooth enabled devices, with many new features, as long as you pay X amount per month to have them enabled, and a fee for using them, and the fee for airtime, and the activation fee, and
Re:Verizon is horrible about this (Score:2)
Re:Verizon is horrible about this (Score:3, Interesting)
We're talking about keeping an image you created on your screen. It's not like they're providing new images, installing images, or changing even a single bit in any way as they take your fee every month. Not deleting data that you don't own off of a device that you don't own for a fee is extortion.
Or do you think that paying "protection money" to the guy who cleans the trash out of the alley behind your business in order to continue to have windows tha
I got the mailling (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Current Verizon customers that want to keep the phone and the service may get a $25 credit to their bill.
2) Current customers who want to keep their service but not their phone may send it in for a refund.
3) Customers who cancelled their service and paid the cancellation fee can get a refund of the fee.
I am not sure why they just don't enable OBEX?! That is what everyone wanted in the first place.
Re:I got the mailling (Score:2)
That would require Verizon to admit that they did something wrong.
Fix the Blackberry please (Score:3, Interesting)
I've heard that RIM did this because of security implications; maybe so. But it said Bluetooth on the box, not partial Bluetooth.
Re:Fix the Blackberry please (Score:3, Interesting)
and yes, of course things like OBEX are better fits than the mouse profile. but "bluetooth" does not inherently imply any given set of profiles. if you wanted a specific capability, you should have a
Nice, weak microphone addressed by Lameware cool (Score:3, Interesting)
The complaint was personally confirmed as a common grief experienced by V710 Verizon phone users.
The solution which did not work was to reset the phone using the stencil.
Glad I'll be able to get something for the piece of junk.
I stopped using the phone about 6 months ago due the bad microphone sound quality.
I would pick the 3rd option on the claim form. I hope they offer a phone of equivalent function and price/value.
The first claim form option was for $25 which in no way near covers the $430 cost of the junk phone.
Another complaint is that when I purchased a replacement, Verizon had no way of transferring Contact phone #'s to another phone.
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Avian flu dosen't kill people, people kill people.
Re:Nice, weak microphone addressed by Lameware coo (Score:2)
This is still bogus... (Score:5, Interesting)
Also,with regards to EVDO, they SHOULD allow you to plug the card into that switch unit(forget the name of it). IF Verizon did this, then some people just might use this as thier ONLY connection to the web. When at home, plug it into the switch, when on the road, take another switch or just plug it into the laptop. Verizon could make TONS of cash if they were to do this, however they want to FORCE you to do things their way because they are afraid the network may not be able to handle it or some other stupid reason.
Re:This is still bogus... (Score:2)
Good question. However, the rest of this post demonstrates zero understanding of basic business or economics.
Verizion is just screwed up on a great many things. Why must I pay 79 bucks or even 59 for 1XRTT or even EVDO?? Can't they have a unlimited plan that's a little more economical?
Verizon currently has almost a monopoly on hig
I wish I was that lucky (Score:5, Interesting)
So, I get back, read up on providers and such. I eventually decided that Virgin Mobile worked best for me, since I don't use my cell phone a whole lot but do find it a useful gadget. Their rates are pretty good for people who don't need to use their cell phones every day.
Now, here's where I screwed up: I did a Google for "Virgin Mobile" to see what kind of features the plan offered. This of course brought up the Virgin Mobile USA website. I live in Canada. There's no obvious indication on the site that it's the Virgin Mobile USA site, so I figured it was just a general Virgin Mobile site. These days most corporate sites redirect you to the appropriate page based on where your IP is located anyway, right?
So I'm looking at the features and I see that they have internet access and instant messenger support, among other things. So I go out and buy a phone (Audiovox CDM8910). Not a top of the line model, but it's got a camera, superphonic ringtones, and all that. Pretty nice, I think.
Of course, to my horror, when I open the package there is no data cable. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Instead, I discover, Virgin wants me to pay 50 cents per picture to get my pictures off of the phone, up to $4 per ringtone to download new ringtones (normally I wouldn't mind, but the phone's default selection is pathetic - none of them are suitable for anything, really), and up to $2 per picture to download new "wallpapers." Yeah right!
It is possible to purchase a data cable for this phone, and I've done so. The problem is that there's no software that really supports the phone, and of course the phone's firmware is completely undocumented... so I CAN get my pictures and upload new ringtones without paying Virgin's outrageous fees, but because of the shoddy, undocumented firmware, there's a good chance I could completely wreck my phone in the process. I doubt I'd have an easy time of getting a replacement, either...
Honestly, the cell phone market in North America is absolutely pathetic. I'm sick of being locked in by providers and being promised features that I don't receive. To be fair, I should have been more careful about my research in this case, but I'm sure several Slashdotters have experienced similar letdowns with cell phones. A lot of people seemed to think that the "Cell Phone User's Bill of Rights" was ridiculous. Maybe it was. But we all know that when North American cell phone providers aren't outright lying to their customers, they're crippling the phones they provide so that the only way to make use of all of the technology in the phone you buy is to pay outrageous fees.
Re:I wish I was that lucky (Score:3, Informative)
This is both true AND inaccurate. It is true because you do get charged outrageous fees for ringtones, wallpapers, etc. However, it is inaccurate because, in Europe, callers pay to make phone calls to a mobile phone. Try calling a European mobile phone from
have they learned their lesson? (Score:2)
Greed IS Verizon's business model (Score:4, Insightful)
A. Verizon does business unlike any other carrier, and we make no apologies for that.
'we make no apologies for that' =Translation= We do what we want, when we want, and you do not matter.
'don't work with our business model' =Translation= It is much more profitable for us this way
'Every customer is certainly entitled to their own feelings.' =Translation= F You!!!
Yay Free Market Capialism! (Score:2)
Over here is "Socialist Europe" I can buy a phone direct from the manufacturer and use it on any network, if that's what I want to do.
Instead you have half-a-dozen incompatible phone standards, poor coverage, restricted phones and dreadful service.
Sometimes cooperation and capitalism go hand in hand.
Re:Yay Free Market Capialism! (Score:3, Informative)
The fact that US CDMA phones can interoperate with AMPS networks is ultimately both its advantage and its crux. Qualcomm could have made IS-95 interoperable with GSM. They could have, as the UMTS people did, produced IS-9
Why only before 2005? (Score:2)
Re:Why only before 2005? (Score:2)
European cellphones (Score:2)
I've never seen or heart about any phones being crippled (in the literal
I like the phone but.... (Score:2)
* When plugged in to charge will say "Unable to Charge"
* If I open the phone to turn an alarm on, then close it, the backlight
stays on (that's normal), however, if I now plug the phone in to charge it,
the backlight never goes off (or into it's reduced brightness mode).
I have to wait untilt he backlight goes off, THEN plug the phone in.
* The camera says "BUSY
T-Mobile and Motorola (Score:2, Informative)
I am fully able to transfer files back and forth between my computer and my Motorola RAZR phone. I even sync my addressbook between my phone and my computer (and it was one of the big reasons I went T-Mobile and bought this particular phone).
I bet you could probably go to Japan, get one of those ultra-cool phones they have
Re:T-Mobile and Motorola (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you shop at Walmart, Target, Old Navy? Do you scour fatwallet or slickdeals? Do you shop for the cheapest broadband service? Well, why then would a manufacturer waste storeshelf space on really expensive stuff when you only buy cheap crap?
Showing prices after mailin rebates work in the US for a reason...because most people focus o
OBEX? Feh, Verizon disables Transfer from T-Flash! (Score:3, Informative)
Most importantly, the latest version of the v710 software from Verizon disables the other free transport -- Transflash. You can no longer copy wallpaper and ringtones (or anything at all) from the flash card to the phone. You can't copy your own pictures from the phone internal memory to the card either!
Early v710 phones from Verizon did have this feature. In fact, it can be re-enabled by some well-published hacks. Highly Recommended.
The e815 phone, of course, does have OBEX which can be re-enabled through more well-published hacks.
Verizon also doesn't publish the more significant differences between the e815 and v710, listing only "VCast" as a feature.
Re:Cutting edge? (Score:2, Funny)
Try closing the open
Re:Cutting edge? (Score:2)
That was going to be my comment. OBEX is hardly a new protocol, and it's been fully implemented on every bluetooth phone I've seen in the last few years. Indeed, even on pre-bluetooth phones, OBEX was supported over IR. Bluetooth just speeds up the transfer somewhat.
Re:Cutting edge? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Pity about Linux Users (Score:2)
Re:CDMA and SIM card question (Score:5, Informative)
but is there any technological barrier? is there any reason that cdma cell phones couldn't be paired with SIM cards?
no, there is no technological barrier. further, some people believe that the importance of supporting next-generation provisioning and wi-fi/3g roaming will lead more of the carriers to support gsm on their networks. you could easily support the gsm provisioning/billing/roaming features on top of a cdma transport. in fact, i believe that some cdma phones with gsm/tdma chipsets built-in for global roaming have been announced/discussed.
it will be interesting to see how long verizon can maintain this technological provincialism. based on their dominance in the marketplace, i would imagine they'll be able to maintain for some time.
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