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Former Health Secretary Pushes for VeriChip Implants
Posted by
CowboyNeal
on Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:02 AM
from the getting-under-your-skin dept.
from the getting-under-your-skin dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Tommy Thompson, the former Bush Health Secretary after implanting a chip into himself, is going to submit a proposal within the next 50 days to promote it for everyone in the USA. VeriChip spokesperson John Procter said 'virtually everyone could benefit from having a chip inserted.' Enjoy your assimilation in the land of the free, citizen."
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VeriChip Implants 222 People With RFID 306 comments
cnet-declan writes "Anyone remember VeriChip, a company that came up with the idea of implanting chips in humans for tracking them? They've been behind ideas like RFID tagging immigrant and guest workers at the border, and they've persuaded a former Bush Health Secretary to get himself chipped. In this CNET News.com article, we offer an update on how successful the idea has been. It turns out that, according to IPO documents, 222 people have been implanted, with sales revenue of $100,000."
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Medical Purposes Only (Score:5, Insightful)
This will be introduced as optional and quickly become as voluntary as credit cards, drivers licenses, and cell phones. Sure, you can opt-out of these, but you will never be accepted at a job that requires them.
Re:Medical Purposes Only (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Medical Purposes Only (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Medical Purposes Only (Score:3, Funny)
Now where have I heard that before?
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wis
Re:Disgusting (Score:5, Insightful)
Speaking as a life-long atheist, I find that most religious texts carry some wisdom, even though I don't believe in their literal truth ("Let him without sin cast the first stone" is a good tenet to live by, whether you believe in the godhood of the guy who said it or not).
In the same vein, I find a lot of wisdom in works of fiction without believing in their literal truth (go read Dune sometime, or anything by Vonnegut).
In this case, I'd say the Revelations comment is relevant: the book describes a nasty situation, whether you look at it as prophecy, allegory, or the ravings of a lunatic. It's a situation we don't want to get ourselves into, regardless of what we believe.
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Re:Disgusting (Score:5, Interesting)
I define it as "deliberately doing something I believe is wrong", usually "because I wouldn't want it done to me". Example: murder. I don't do it, and I hope nobody does it to me. Yes, there are fine shades of meaning I'm leaving out: is it murder to execute a murderer? What if he's a mass murderer? What if he killed your wife/kids? How about if you're drafted and forced to fight in a war where it's kill or be killed? What if you believe in the cause the war is about? You have to answer these yourself, honestly, and there will be no quiz after class. I won't hate you for answering them differently than I would, and I won't try to force you to see things my way.
I don't believe there is an easy yardstick to measure this stuff by. I also know that not everyone agrees, and I don't believe everybody should agree. I can only be responsible for my own choices and my own behaviour. Yours are up to you.
There is no "one size fits all" morality. You've asked me to define "sin" in a self-consistent way, but it's not self-consistent, any more than concepts like "love", "hate", or "fear" are. I decide what's right and wrong for me, and you decide what's right and wrong for you... or you accept a predefined "right and wrong" model from a religion (or maybe you start with a template and customize it a bit). Life is full of this sort of illogical stuff. To deny it, or to try to assign meaning where there is none, is an exercise in self-delusion.
At this point, a religious man would say "that's because God/Buddha/Allah/Odin/Whoever made things that way". I don't know the reasons (and neither do the truly faithful: they have faith, which doesn't require knowledge). I'm just stating what I've observed: the Universe doesn't always make sense to me (and to a lot of other people).
Sometimes I do ask myself, "What would Dad do?"... sometimes I call him up and ask. But ultimately I'm responsible for my own actions... because I hold myself responsible. (I find circular logic makes me dizzy, don't you?)
Wow, that was a long off-topic ramble. But you did ask...
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Re:Disgusting (Score:4, Funny)
B.
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Re:Medical Purposes Only (Score:5, Insightful)
As you point out:
Sure, you can opt-out of these, but you will never be accepted at a job that requires them.
We can add that a credit card is necessary to travel. Sooner or later this chip, or one like it will be required. Saying it is optional is kind of a misnomer if you want a life.
I recently attended a "National Identity Card" presentation and the subject of implants was raised. I initially walked into the conference thinking it was a good idea. But after listening to the speakers it became quite clear this is about population control by government. Business will love it as they can profile you for insurance (all kinds), purchasing habits, travel patterns and target marketing.
I walked out realizing liberty and freedom are in fact at risk from with-in.
Lets realize the fact that 95% of the terrorists of 9/11 and more recent bombings in London had valid papers. They could also have had valid implants too. It is a myth these new technologies of tracking people are any more effective than a tried and relatively cheap passport. Techo hype companies don't like this fact and the population is getting marketing, and not reality message. Good security is about people keeping their eyes open.
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Re:Medical Purposes Only (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Medical Purposes Only (Score:5, Insightful)
As I understand it, the London bombers were British citizens. They didn't just have valid papers, but a cast-iron legal right to be in the country. No amount of ID can protect from a legal citizen with no record "suddenly" turning suicide bomber.
Parent
Re:Medical Purposes Only (Score:3, Insightful)
~X~
Newsflash (Score:5, Insightful)
Newsflash 2: There is a revolving door between executive-level government and industry!
Newsflash 3: A former government official might use his contacts to lobby for his benefit!
Newsflash 4: Company in question presents its product in a positive light!
Newsflash 5: Melodramaic slashdot sumbission contains no actual news at all.
Frankly, there could be benefits from and novel uses for a universally globally unique identifier that is always with you and can't be lost. But the potential for abuse, obviously, outweighs those benefits. (In fact, if it could only be activated and/or read when you explicitly wished, it might be a good, albeit voluntary, idea. But that's not how this system is applied.)
And further, it's probably not a bad idea for health applications. However, like the Social Security number, it's bound to get misappropriated and misapplied for all manner of other uses. Some of which we
So far, where has it been used? Bars and clubs as gimmicks.
So what does this all mean?
We have a former government official with no official standing or position in government whatever promoting a product of a company of which he's a member of the board.
Stunning.
Bottom line: Sure, absolutely: be vigilant. But there will never be compulsory "implants" that will be required for all. Does that mean a company that would benefit massively from such an idea wouldn't try to promote it? In fact, I'd be worried if a for-profit company operating in a quasi-capitalist society didn't attempt to promote its products. (And no, having national standards for state driver licenses and identification cards was/is not a bad idea.)
[1] Tommy Thompson, while he incidentally may have been the former HHS secretary, is a director of the company that makes the RFID chips.
"MOVE ALONG NOTHING TO SEE HERE" (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, the company that makes them is lobbying to move things in the direction of making them compulsory for all. They may not ever succeed at this. But does that make it okay that they're trying?
Yes, the practice of ex-political officials entering industry and using their contacts for lobbying purposes is common. However just because it is a common thing does not make it a good thing.
At any rate, you are probably right that these things won't ever become mandatory-- in the United States. But there are lots of other places in the world. The government of China, for example, already has national "citizen identification" cards, and already has a precedent of compulsory medical care (for example abortions). Do you think it would be the least bit unusual if this kind of chipping became mandatory there? Because I don't.
Parent
Re:"MOVE ALONG NOTHING TO SEE HERE" (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't have any problem with a company making a product attempting to promote it. Viewed in a vacuum, as I said, these products, like many others, could have positive applications. That they would try to promote the product in such a fashion as it would be used as widely as possible comes as no surprise to me.
If we
Re:"MOVE ALONG NOTHING TO SEE HERE" (Score:3, Insightful)
Yah, but on this side of the pond they are called 'social security card', so that makes them completely different, and 'good' because a 'citizen identification' card is 'bad'.
Re:"MOVE ALONG NOTHING TO SEE HERE" (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't bet on it. Of course the first people to be tagged won't be Republicans. It will start with convicted felons. Then it will be required for other types of disenfranchised people, such as retarded citizens, "for their own good". Then it will be required for airline travel "for our own safety". Then there will be a knock on the door....
You never realize you're on the slippery slope until you've stepped on it.
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Re:"MOVE ALONG NOTHING TO SEE HERE" (Score:5, Insightful)
Fact is. You SSN *IS* your identifier. It's your second name in numerical format now.
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Re:Newsflash (Score:4, Insightful)
While I agree with most of your post, I'd be careful with statements like that. Never say never - there's already lots of stuff going on today that people probably wouldn't have believed would ever happen some 230 years ago.
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Re:Newsflash (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Newsflash (Score:4, Insightful)
Let me know when the chimneys are being raised and the forced labor begins.
I'm not happy iwht the things my government is doing right now, but it's a far cry between the current policies of the US government and that of the Nazis of the 1930s and 40s.
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Company spokesman endorses own product (Score:4, Funny)
Film at eleven.
Re:Company spokesman endorses own product (Score:5, Funny)
If they're only thinking that, they're doing it wrong. They should be paying off some dumb-ass politician so that he can introduce legislation mandating that everyone has to buy an UmbrellaCo brand umbrella.
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Only if it includes DRM (Score:5, Funny)
Too easy (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Too easy (Score:3, Funny)
The best part is that his last name is derived from the Greek word proktos, which means anus.
My RFID is blinking red.... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:My RFID is blinking red.... (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Just a "health chip"? (Score:5, Informative)
"According to Procter, the chips can also be used for financial transactions."
Which reminded me of:
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to
receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Easy access for doctors to our medical records or an easy way for someone to control everything we do, go or buy? "Sorry sir, no chip, no entry". hmm.
What does the Electronic Frontiers Foundation say about all this?!
Re:Just a "health chip"? (Score:4, Interesting)
The Bible says that "spiritual Israel" will exist, that is, the people who actually want to serve God will be his approved people and will have his protection. It also says that the "war of the great day of God the Almighty" will happen when they "gather at the place that is, in Hebrew, called Har-magedon". That literally translates to "mountain of Megiddo" but there isn't a mountain anywhere near the plains of Megiddo.
Megiddo was a place where many decisive battles took place in ancient times. A battle on a mountain would be something everyone would see for miles around. So when all the nations gather at the "mountain of Megiddo", expect a battle of all the nations of the world vs. God's kingdom army. Everyone will see it, and it will be a decisive battle. As it says numerous times in Ezekiel, "and they shall come to know that I am Jehovah." There will be no escape from this conclusion. It will be completely evident to all onlookers, and that will include everyone in the entire world.
The nation of Israel has no more to do with this than any other nation. They'll be destroyed like all the rest. Why? Because God rejected them when they rejected and killed his son. Their rulership was "cut down" in 607 BC, but they were restored to freedom. But when they out-and-out rejected the Messiah, that was the end of any favor shown to them by God. The Romans destroyed their "nation" in 70 AD and there wasn't even a fight. Even when they were "punished" in 617-607 BC, there was a 10-year fight. The literal nation of Israel no longer has any backing from God. Heck, they went completely out of existence for almost 2000 years.
Of course, you're correct in your assertion that Bush (and the rest of the world's leaders) are pushing toward that final battle. "The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." So said the apostle Paul in an inspired letter to a first-century Christian congregation. Satan has control of the political, economic and religious systems of the world. That makes George W. Bush a tool of the devil. (Along with every other president in history, and all other kings, chancellors, prime ministers, premieres, dictators, etc...)
Jeremiah 10:23 states that "It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." Man should not, cannot, and will not rule himself. Only God's kingdom has the ability to rule mankind. And that is the issue here.
People think that the number "666" is going to literally show up on tax forms or something. It's not. 6 is a number that signifies something falling short of heavenly perfection (which is symbolized by 7). 3 is used for emphasis. So the number 6 repeated 3 times is something emphatically deficient. The failing governments of the world fit that bill perfectly.
Perhaps you're an atheist because of all the "fundie" idiots out there that sound crazy. (And truly, they are!) Don't misunderstand the Bible and reject it because people have twisted it. Read it. Study it. Perhaps you too may learn what it says and why it says that. Then you can calm down, enjoy life, have a happy hope for the future, and laugh when people start mingling conspiracy theories with biblical allusions. (Yes, I laughed before I posted all this. It's quite refreshing to be able to laugh and shrug something off when it's as disturbing as this story is.)
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hacking (Score:3, Funny)
Re:hacking (Score:4, Insightful)
Most likely the people responsible will exempt themselves from the system, as they always do.
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Oh god (Score:3, Insightful)
WHAT THE FUCK?
This is a terrible idea (Score:4, Insightful)
The second problem is that there is very little benefit compared to the cost. The cost being the pain and suffering involved in getting implanted in addition to the medical costs involved in having it inserted.
Add to this the amount of conspiracy talk that's bound to arise, and you're looking at a real lashback from the populace.
You'll find me in favor of the government doing a lot of things, but this is not one of them. It's a poorly thought-through idea and should be resisted as much as possible.
"We finally got it right" (Score:5, Funny)
Way ahead of you! (Score:4, Funny)
And if they decide to plant the chip in a more sensitive place, my tin-foil cup has been protecting my precious bodily fluids for years.
(Yes, I know that RFIDs respond to outside RF, not generate it themselves. The gag is funnier my way. Relax.)
New tech, same old issues. (Score:4, Insightful)
From TFA:
That's really what this is all about, isn't it? Unfortunately, although many may consider implanted RFID chips to be the security 'magic wand', this simply isn't the case. If a beach club can program and insert a chip for you, it's not too far a stretch to imagine terrorist groups programming and inserting bogus chips in their operatives. In the context of security, all this does is create a false sense of security.
The other major concern regarding implanted RFID chips is the increased danger of information/identity theft. If all a thief needs to do to lift your information, including your identity, medical records, and bar tabs, is stand next to you on the subway, we're going to see a whole new chapter written in the history of information theft.
Re:New tech, same old issues. (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd rather a mugger demanded my wallet, than scanned me for my ID chip and cut it out.
This is a bad idea for anything but livestock. If anyone ever pressures me to get one of these, he will get a vigorous refusal, which may include the use of firearms.
-jcr
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Good luck (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't disagree with you. But, if this sort of thing becomes "mandatory by law", that reaction will generally mean you either get killed in the shoot-out, or incarcerated -- and doubtless when you are incarcerated, you get implanted involuntarily. So it's death or implantation. Maybe you'll choose death. I might just make that choice as well, if it came right down to it. But I suspect most people won't make that choice, and I'm not just talking about the mindless sheep. Most people value their lives more then their freedom.
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Medical uses are realistic (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Medical uses are realistic (Score:4, Insightful)
Thing is, this could be put in a card or a brecelet and be only minimally less effective, with fewer bad implications.
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Re:Medical uses are realistic (Score:4, Insightful)
Instead of storing this data in an implanted chip, why not encode this data on re-writable magnetic strip on a credit-card-type card (with no personally identifiable info) that you can keep in your wallet/purse/keychain etc?
It's a good idea to have this info available for legitimate medical uses, but an implanted RFID doesn't do enough to strike a balance between privacy and usefulness.
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I Am Not A Number, I'm A Free Man! (Score:3, Insightful)
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
Yeah... (Score:3, Funny)
Dont do it (Score:3, Funny)
I can see it now... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Be very afraid... (Score:5, Insightful)
Who said it would need an act of Congress? Get yourself chipped and get a decent reduction in insurance premiums in return and people will wait in line to get one.
Get chipped and you don't have to wait in line at the supermarket.
Get your kids chipped and you can tell where they are at all times and protect them from baddies...
Don't need a law to make it compulsory. I reckon the free market will do just nicely.
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Re:Be very afraid... (Score:3, Insightful)
This assumes people know it is there, and even then it's an iffy assumption. Remember, riders can be added quite literally at the last minute. Slip it in a 100+ page bill that's up for a vote in less than a day, and watch it slip under the radar. It's happened before and will probably happen again.
Re:Be very afraid... (Score:3, Insightful)
From TFA:
No, it's not a proposal -- YET. But it will be soon.
100
Re:No way. (Score:4, Funny)
"VeriChip and Ruffles join, create new RFID 'chip'"
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Re:New Agers did a good job at warning us, (Score:3, Insightful)
10 years ago people were saying exactly the same thing about bank cards and a "cashless society". Some places I have been recently have actually told me that they don't accept cash anymore because of the risk. You'd be surprised what people will accept, only in small increments. This is coming, too. And when it does you will have a choice. But they'll mandate it for newborns, just like vaccines and the