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Orkut Linked To Drug Ring Bust

Posted by Zonk on Fri Jul 22, 2005 05:19 PM
from the connecting-people-in-new-ways dept.
Government The Courts Businesses Google The Internet News
Dynamoo writes "Google's Orkut service has been allegedly used to sell drugs by a Brazilian outfit, according to a BBC news report. According to the report, the dealers offered pot and ecstasy for sale via the system to Brazil's large Orkut user community. Google is reported to be investigating. One interesting issue that springs to mind is: how can you monitor and moderate such a large, multilingual community such as Orkut? And what are the limits of criminal liability in a case like this?"
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  • Legal Liability (Score:5, Interesting)

    by netruner (588721) on Friday July 22 2005, @05:23PM (#13140087)
    What is Cingular, T-Mobile and Verizon's legal liability for illegal activity ranging from petty drug dealing all the way up to terrorism when their products and network are used to perpetrate those crimes?

    • Re:Legal Liability (Score:4, Insightful)

      by xiando (770382) on Friday July 22 2005, @05:36PM (#13140230) Homepage Journal
      What you need to know about using a Mobile Telephone in most parts of the world: They use something called GSM technology. Every GSM phone has a unique number. And every GSM customer in (almost all parts of the world) are required to be registered with the provider. It is illegal to provide anonymous cellphone subscriptions in this country and most others. Furthermore, cell phone providers must comply when police and other authorities require a real-time tap of your calls, a printout of all your text-messages and most importantly a mapped feed on your location at all times based on your phones distance from the GSM masts all over. This is how these cell phone companies are liable for criminal activity: They MUST assist fully to uncover and prove crime when asked to do so. They ARE HELD LIABLE if they are asked to comply in any criminal investigation and fail to comply.
      • Three words: Cash, prepaid cellular.
                  • What next, pub owners held liable in Ireland because they let IRA bomb plotters meet during happy hour? The London Underground Authority held liable because it is so trivially easy to leave a backpack filled with about 5 kilos of plastic explosives (or a bunch of repackaged M80 firecrackers) and ball bearings behind, yet SOMEONE must be found at fault?

                    This is a pretty lame argument against Orkut, etc. Who is to say that the "criminals" using the cell phones in other countries are actually who they say they

  • What is wrong with Marijuana? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by linzeal (197905) on Friday July 22 2005, @05:23PM (#13140092) Homepage Journal
    I'm sure such services facilitate the transaction between brewers of beer and makers of wine. Why does marijuana which is less damaging than both when injested instead of inhaled deserve any attention from police? MDMA is different and has been linked to brain damage by multiple studies I believe.

    • This has been refuted in recent times. In the 80s during the Reagan administration quite a few flawed and slanted studies were done on ecstasy that showed that it was dangerous. The reality of it is that long-term use of MDMA does not put "holes" in your brain or anything like it.

      People who trust everything the government says are fools, particularly when there's an agenda involved, like the "Just say no to drugs" campaign.

      • Re:What is wrong with Marijuana? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by 0x0000 (140863) <zerohex&zerohex,com> on Friday July 22 2005, @05:41PM (#13140273) Homepage

        The Reagan administration also told us catsup is a vegetable. Now the same idiots think they can convince teenagers to stop having sex.

        People who trust everything the government says are fools

        While that was once true, times have changed. Nowadays people who trust anything the government says are fools.

        • Re:What is wrong with Marijuana? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by runderwo (609077) * <runderwo&mail,win,org> on Friday July 22 2005, @06:24PM (#13140576)
          To elaborate on your statement against the inevitable rebuttal, saying that it is foolish to trust the government does *NOT* mean that none of the propaganda the government puts out is true. (Some of it *is* true.) It just means that so much of it is demonstrably false that now a statement being made by the government is an extremely weak predictor of whether or not the statement is actually true. Or in other words, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
    • Simple. The "War on Drugs" made pot the poster child in front of the public. In order to not back down and lose governmental credit to its citizens, it must always make pot "evil" as to save face.

      In other words, regardless of medical evidence now days, the "war on drugs" mantra is past the point of no return in regards to its immage. As such, the lie must continue for the "greater good" of the war.
    • The point of this topic is not if Marijuana should be legalized, but how can this type of illict transaction be stopped in the future? Regardless of the hazards of Marijuana and Ecstasy, the fact remains that they are illegal, and as such, the laws should be enforced. The drug trade is such a problem in the common parents head, that enforcing the laws against trafficing is much more important to the police then other laws that they may choose to put lesser importance on.
    • The problem is that the War On Drugs is pure propaganda completely based in slanted studies. Let the true facts be damned! If the war on drugs were to be stopped and only opiates, cocaine and illegal behind the counter related drugs were consider illegal we could end starvatation in this country as well as repair our defunct medical system and cure many other ills.
    • The fact that marijuana is completely harmless and far less dangerous than alcohol is totally irrelevant for Orkuts involvement in the distribution of illegal substances. Orkut, and any other public service for that matter, can not condone or assist in the breaking of any (local) law regardless of their personal view on the matter. Orkuts view on the legal status of cannabis, if they for some strange reason have one, is irrelevant for their obligation to assist authorities in striking down on criminal activ
    • Actually, MDMA may not be all that bad. It is linked to brain damage in rats, but the same study also proved that you could prevent 100% of the damage by administering an SSRI (Prozac, Zoloft, St. John's Wort, etc.)

  • Multilingual? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by the_rev_matt (239420) <slashbot.revmatt@com> on Friday July 22 2005, @05:23PM (#13140095) Homepage
    Since when is Orkut multilingual? I gave up on the site many many months ago when posting something in english in any of the dozens of forums I was in resulted in 20-30 abusive responses in portuguese.

    The Brazilians took over Orkut long ago, it's useless to anyone else.

    • Re:Multilingual? (Score:4, Funny)

      by wronski (821189) on Friday July 22 2005, @05:37PM (#13140239)
      You should welcome your new Brazilian overlords!
    • I was kinda getting used to all the responses in Dutch, now I have to worry about Brazilian?

    • Re:Multilingual? (Score:5, Funny)

      by IronChef (164482) on Friday July 22 2005, @07:40PM (#13141052) Homepage
      How do you know the replies were abusive if you don't speak Portuguese? Maybe they were inviting you over to meet their sisters.
    • There are also substantial Iranian, Estonian, Pakistani communities... If you don't speak their languages, how is that their problem? Most of them have made the effort to learn yours. Here are Orkut's actual demographic statistics [orkut.com]. It would be interesting to see statistics based on proportion-of-population. I think Estonia would be quite high on the list. Where else could you meet these guys if you don't travel?

      • Re:Multilingual? (Score:5, Funny)

        by Wonko (15033) on Friday July 22 2005, @06:41PM (#13140695) Homepage Journal

        Americans, especially, are totally obnoxious when it comes to languages: many of them refuse to speak any other language unless they REALLY have to

        That is a completely FALSE statement. I am an American, and I absolutely REFUSE to put myself in a situation where I would be required to speak any other language.

        :)

      • (French and Americans, especially, are totally obnoxious when it comes to languages: many of them refuse to speak any other language unless they REALLY have to).

        You have it slightly wrong. Most French people at least know a couple other languages. The vast, vast majority of Americans simply do not have any ability in any language other than English. Blame the crappy setup of the school system.

        • Blame the lack of necessity. I can travel in the U.S. and Canada, an area about the size of Europe, and except for small enclaves, everyone will know English. On the other hand, a French person is unlikely to be able to travel more than a few hundred miles before he needs to speak another language to blend in with the culture.
        • You have it slightly wrong. Most French people at least know a couple other languages. The vast, vast majority of Americans simply do not have any ability in any language other than English. Blame the crappy setup of the school system.

          That isn't all that true. I would imagine if you counted the numbers of both legal and illegal immigrants, and the numbers of college educated individuals in the U.S. you would have a fairly sizable portion of the U.S. that speaks two or more languages.

          One of the main reaso

  • Whoa! This is heavy.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by PDXNerd (654900) on Friday July 22 2005, @05:23PM (#13140096)
    In other news, a new device called a "cellphone" was recently used in the bust of three columbian druglords. Apparently they were using the address book feature to store phone numbers of other drug lords and were using the "voice" features to network and make deals. How does one go about "wiretapping" and busting such a multi-lingual and diverse group of folk who use "cellphones?"

  • Duh! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Locke2005 (849178) on Friday July 22 2005, @05:25PM (#13140116)
    And what are the limits of criminal liability in a case like this? Gee, I don't know... what are the limits of liability for the phone companies, postal server, or the package delivery companies if they are used by drug distributors? I beleive the answer is "no liability whatsoever". Why do people think that everything is different if it's done on a computer?

  • GoogleDrugs (Score:5, Funny)

    by Lord Marlborough (897605) on Friday July 22 2005, @05:26PM (#13140122)
    332 dime bags jamacain hashish to kilos ::search:: 332 dime bags = 0.71548362344 kilos

  • Legal basis in brick and mortar law (Score:3, Interesting)

    by sterno (16320) on Friday July 22 2005, @05:26PM (#13140127) Homepage
    How would Orkut be any different than having a coffee shop where some people were dealing drugs without your knowledge? Yes you provided a gathering place, but it's not like you really did anything other than that to facillitate it.

    Obviously if you knew about it and didn't make some effort to stop it, that would be a different scenario but there's no indication that's the case here.

  • How exactly would one police such a thing? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Tink2000 (524407) on Friday July 22 2005, @05:27PM (#13140129) Homepage Journal
    These guys seem to have gotten caught after being found out on a telephone conversation - leading to the authorities to get access at their internet connection. First rule of traffic is to keep a low profile, and apparently someone broke that rule (and got phonetapped in the process, which blew the rest of this open).

    I honestly don't see how Google (or anyone else for that matter) could manage policing this type of environment. Instead of saying "Hey I have $SUBSTANCE", smart dealers will say things like, "Free kittens to good home" or whatnot.

    Of course, I could springboard from here to legalization arguments, but that would bring me way OT...

  • And in other news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nettdata (88196) on Friday July 22 2005, @05:28PM (#13140141) Homepage
    ...the phone companies were charged with conspiracy to sell narcotics after it was discovered that people were using the phone to help sell drugs. Not.

    Seriously, I don't see any legal implications for Google, as they didn't set up the system to sell drugs... it was just an avenue of communication that drug dealers/users took advantage of to sell and buy drugs.

    Any form of communication can be used for that purpose... photocopiers, phones, carrier pigeons.... Actually, that's not a bad idea... hmmm...
    • Same here. The only thing I can see screwing Google is if they don't comply with cooperating.

      Assuming that the Brazillian and American authorities play nice, which, typically they do.
      • Exactly... and even then I tend to think that it wouldn't be any kind of drug charges, it would be some sort of obstruction charge... assuming the international issues weren't actually issues.

        Jurisdiction and enforcement could be a bitch.
  • I don't think there should be any liability for providing a service like this. Thats like saying the US government is responsible for drugs that someone sold using the US mail. Or UPS being responsible for the same thing. However this begs the question should a more dangerous item such as a bomb be the shippers responsibiliy? Personally I think it should not be. However in a good free market I think you should see some competition in this area, "our service is better because we scan your packege before you
  • Well, communicating about illegal activity on a public forum is a pretty stupid idea. Especially considering evidence that Orkut may be involved with the CIA and NSA [infiltrated.net]. Chances are those organizations were involved in this drug bust.
  • what has made Orkut such a popular site for Brazilians? (aside from drugs!)
  • I guess this explains how Google beat forecaster's predictions on profitability.

    Gates won't take this sitting down. Maybe we need to take another look at that recently discovered drug tunnel on the Canadian border. I wonder if it was meant to go all the way to Redmond?

  • People are using a communications medium for drugs and it's something newsworthy? I would think the proper response would be duh. Careful guys, next thing you know they'll start using IRC networks even, or maybe IM services like AIM and ICQ! Criminal liability? What a joke. What next, holding telephone service providers accountable when a drug deal goes down on their network? Give me a break.

  • What should be the limit of criminal liabilit is obvious: If you are aware something criminal is going on, then you should be held liable. If you know nothing then obviously you are not liable. This is the simple bulletin board v.s. the street corner cafe thing. The cafe owner is not responsible if a drug dealer stops by while in possession of drugs, but if the cafe owner knows someone is dealing drugs at his cafe and approves of it, then that is something completely different.
    • So, take a quick look at craigslist.org - I'd say one in 5 personal ads includes the dollar-sign refernce for "will pay" or "for pay" and a similar ratio of them includes a "420" reference for pot smokers.

      Is craigslist responsible too? Or are they just a "common carrier" of information? [As a voting libertarian, you know my feelings, but, it is an interesting question anyway.]
  • Why do the authorities even bother looking/searching for drug crimes? They lost this war decades ago, didn't anybody tell them it's time to surrender? Or maybe it's time to adopt a new approach to dealing with drugs.. What a waste of fucking resources this whole god damn thing is. Let me go back to smoking my Canadian hash, thank you.
  • This isn't bad -- this is GREAT! This is an investigators dream; documented evidence of the social structure of a drug ring. They know who's friends with who and have leads galore.

  • Who's Fault Was It? (Score:5, Funny)

    by greymond (539980) on Friday July 22 2005, @05:36PM (#13140227) Homepage Journal
    So since Ortuk is an "Invite Only" community who invited thier Law Enforcement friend? Guess they don't have to worry about getting "wacked" since on the internet everyone is anonymous...oh wait...shit...
  • What's the liability of the government for building the roads on which the drug transport takes place?

  • Thank God they were caught! (Score:4, Funny)

    by hotspotbloc (767418) on Friday July 22 2005, @05:41PM (#13140269) Homepage Journal
    And that will put an end to illegal drug sales. The War on Drugs has been won!

  • Got 420? (Score:3, Funny)

    by value_added (719364) on Friday July 22 2005, @06:01PM (#13140423)
    This just in:

    "The popular Craigslist bulletin board service has been allegedly used to offer sex and drugs. According to the report, members are using the system to conspire with other members, offering companionship, massage, and sex in conjunction with variety of controlled substances for fun and possibly profit.

    One official was quoted as saying, "It took some time, but the guys in our Cybersecurity Department finally cracked the secret codes"

  • A BRAZILIAN drug bust? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Lord_Dweomer (648696) on Friday July 22 2005, @06:01PM (#13140425) Homepage
    Wow....this happened in Brazil, and through Orkut? Who would have ever imagined. This post is not a troll or a flame, but I have to say...as the owner of the Japanese Food/Sushi Lovers community which has 88.7 THOUSAND members right now (the vast majority of which are Brazilian), it is the Brazilians that have ruined Orkut for everybody else.

    Don't get me wrong, most of them are extremely nice people who are eager to learn about other cultures, however there are some who are incredibly racist, and think that just because they have the largest population on Orkut, that they don't have to follow the rules when it says English Only in a community.

    I've since enforced a rule that drew a LOT of hostility whereby I deleted every post that did not contain an English translation, and banned people for disruptive behavior (you have no idea how many attacks there were on the community).

    I've grown a little lax due to work lately, but I can easily say they ruined it for the rest of us. Too bad, with a bit more work, Orkut could have been quite cool.

  • Will they even bother? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by EvilStein (414640) <spamNO@SPAMpbp.net> on Friday July 22 2005, @06:35PM (#13140653) Homepage
    There are DOZENS of drug deals happening on Craigslist all the time.

    Check it out.. look for the names like "Crystal," "Tina," "Mary Jane," and any post that says "party tonight."

    They're all dealing with drugs. People flag them, but more just pop up.

    • Re:Think of the implications... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by mabhatter654 (561290) on Friday July 22 2005, @07:32PM (#13141013)
      this is the result of the misguided idea that law enforcemtn is to prevent crime rather than punish it. Like you just said, openness of the internet is a 2 way street!! reading a public page and "worming" your way into a social circle "old school" is the best way to go! What it means in the USA is we have to become more "amoral" like the europeans and less reactionary and prudish. We need to reduce the number of silly laws officers must enforce... things like public swearing, blow-jobs, some low end drugs, and the host of silly laws designed to give officers a reason to "harrass" you. We need to rid ourselves of the prudish, "bible belt" rules that have everybody checking themselves in fear at the sight of and officer... that's not how a free society should live! Banning nailclippers at the airport checkpoint is no substitute for 100 citizens paying attention to the people around them... i.e. the creepy guy acting stupid planting a bomb!!

      back on track, used properly, they could net a lot of good intel in the drug trade keeping quite instead of playing cowboy... there's no reason Google wouldn't cooperate with investigations by providing logs or even fake accounts if the police just asked rather than made a heavy-handed power grab out of everything they don't understand.

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