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Windows AntiSpyware Downgrades Claria Detections
Posted by
Zonk
on Thu Jul 07, 2005 08:23 AM
from the convenient-timing dept.
from the convenient-timing dept.
accihap writes "A week after word leaked out that Microsoft was negotiating an acquisition deal with Claria (See recent /. coverage), spyware researchers have noticed that the Windows antispyware application has downgraded Claria's Gator detections and changed the recommended action from 'quarantine' to 'ignore.' Screenshots of the new default settings."
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Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly...is anyone surprised by this? We all saw this coming.
Unfortunately, M$ can pull this sort of thing with near-impunity, as the only ones outraged by this are the ones who had issues with them in the first place (read: us).
The vast majority of Windows users out there are just going to shrug and say, "Oh well...if Microsoft says they're not a threat, then they must not be a threat."
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
If this indeed checks out, Microsoft Antispyware will be removed from our regional ISP's recommendation list by the end of the day. Our customer care people presently recommend it as the first tool for spyware infections due to its previous effectiveness in identifying items that several other no-fee tools did not.
Software that intentionally misleads users regarding the actual risk of unauthorized application behavior is malware, regardless of the vendor or intent.
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Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
And I disagree that most users will remove it anyway. The huge majority of users will accept the default recommendations.
Parent
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't. The price of freedom is eternal vigilence. Right now, the tool is very effective and I personally have the sense to flag Gator for removal. As the product evolves, I may change my evalutation of it. Many products get affected by mergers, acquisitions and threat of lawsuits. Microsoft deserves plenty of bad press for this. But to say that I'm going to throw out my mechanics tools because one wrench is broken is just plain silly.
Parent
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Interesting)
If anything, this shows that future Microsoft Operating Systems:
1) won't be anymore secure than previous versions
2) may even bundle Claria/Gator with their products
3) will be just as successful as their predecessors despite all of this
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Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
"...take control of your life..."
A lot of the MS vs. (everyone else) debate sounds like this.
My life? How is an anti-spyware tool on my computer going to really affect my life? Or how is my computer going to help me take control of my life?
My computer is just a stupid, noisy, power-sucking box that sits on the floor. I am the one that gives it life, not the other way around. Whatever operating system it runs doesn't really affect my life at all- I just use the thing.
Just like the hedge trimmers I bought last weekend- I went to the store, bought some, and used them. It wasn't a decision that would affect my life- just those few moments as I trimmed the bushes.
My whole point is...don't confuse a computer with real life. Real life is about people, love, adventure, relationships, hardships and successes.
Computers are about reading e-mail, and surfing for porn.
Parent
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
My computer is just a stupid, noisy, power-sucking box that sits on the floor. I am the one that gives it life, not the other way around. Whatever operating system it runs doesn't really affect my life at all- I just use the thing.
I think you're missing the point. A computer is a very powerful tool, and the more you use it to communicate and work (research, etc. counts as work), the more its correct operation impacts your life. This is analogous to buying a nice power drill -- if you rarely use it, a $20 cordless from Wal-Mart will suffice you; but, if you are remodelling your house and use it every day, you will need to buy a better drill and put some effort toward maintaining it (keeping the cord from getting worn, making sure not to strip out the chuck, etc.), or you will find your projects significantly delayed.
Viruses and other malware (spyware included) have become a fact of life for most Windows users. The more they use their tool (the computer), the more impact that being hit by malware will have on their life. Most people are at least somewhat aware of this, so they purchase anti-malware software to protect their Windows machines. The fact that such software is so popular indicates that people are aware that malware significantly impacts their lives if they are regular computer users.
The problem is that people have just accepted that malware is out there, and feel that forking over a few hundred dollars for someone to detect and fix infections is the only real course of action. This is akin to getting the flu frequently, accepting that we all get sick, and paying a doctor for medication for every infection; yet, if one were to simply wear properly-warm clothing, eat balanced meals, and ensure a sufficient supply of Vitamin C, etc., one could reduce their vulnerabilities significantly. This is how I see suggesting a user switch to Linux or Mac OSX. Yes, it requires some effort, some discipline and some self-education (just as changing your diet and other habits would), but the end result is significantly less vulnerability.
Why people continue to accept Windows' problems without much ire is a mystery to me.
Parent
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
Before getting into a stew it would be worthwhile considering whether it is likely that a significant number of people with Claria crap are opting to keep it.
No way would I have Claria crap on my machine but it does appear that there are people downloading the trash intentionally.
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Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
My point being, most users don't know or understand what is in the programs, and so the determination of their adware/ non-adware status should not be left up to them.
Additionally, what is going to stop the AdWare networks from running bots that mark their programs as Keep or Ignore and thus flooding the SpyWareNet with false info.
If the change comes becuse of user feed back, then the system is flawed. If the change came because MS got paid, or threatened to be sued then MS is just corrupt.
Parent
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
Does that sufficiently explain it?
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Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:4, Informative)
Opera says in plain English that it'll send stuff to Google, and only if you use the Google text ads (which I use). Not nearly as bad, because it's made obvious (FWIW, I DO use Opera with the Google ads).
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Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:3, Insightful)
They just downgraded the threat level to Moderate and changed recommended action to Ignore.
Those who care can change it to Remove. It's that easy.
No big deal.
I've seem some other utilities that call everything threats and/or infections - even cookies. That's even worse that MS's downgrade of Claria/Gator.
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:4, Insightful)
Those who care don't get spyware IN THE FIRST PLACE. They already use firefox, have their firewall, and often run ad-aware and spybot SnD.
But here it's the Joe user we're talking about.
Besides - who says malware authors won't disguise their malware as Claria's? (Expect a Secunia report issued in the following months about this exact issue)
Parent
Re:Sadly, no surprise. (Score:3, Insightful)
There's Microsoft saying that in the future we should let them run our lives and give them control of our home applicances and such. Then they go and do this.
Makes you think: In 10 - 15 years when Microsoft will probably own half the home security alarms market, I wonder what will happen if they were to acquire 'Burglers Inc.'?
Its not hard to imagine Microsoft downgrading the threat posed by them to 'ignore' either.
It could be worse... (Score:3, Interesting)
It's worrying... (Score:5, Insightful)
Spy vs. Spy (Score:3, Funny)
This makes my head hurt.
[whattofix.com]
Let the conspiracy theories fly! (Score:3, Interesting)
Either way it will certainly feed the gnashing-of-teeth syndrome that occurs anytime the words 'Microsoft' and 'spyware' are uttered in the same sentence.
Re:Let the conspiracy theories fly! (Score:5, Insightful)
One has to wonder if companies such as Microsoft do things like this intentionally or, as the comment in the article indicated, simply miss some things in the wash?
Of course this was done intentionally. GAIN must be the most widespread and well-known spyware out there, do you think that a team of people working on one of the world's biggest anti-spyware programs accidentally thought it was not a threat and should be set to "ignore"? Or do you think someone "accidentally" modified the status in the database by clicking a few wrong buttons, and that quality control didn't check before a product release that their anti-spyware program happens to ignore the world's biggest spyware? There is just no way this happened by mistake.
Parent
And people trust a firewall to them (Score:5, Interesting)
Spyware works because Microsoft designed their softwarein such a way that lets it work. The premise of trusting their anti-spyware tools is ludicrous.
Re:And people trust a firewall to them (Score:5, Insightful)
Marketing a security product for your own operating system is like correcting your own spelling test.
I might just have to go make up some more bumper stickers or something.
Parent
Confirmed (Score:5, Insightful)
When a for-profit organization releases a product that can adversely (or positively) affect another for-profit organization we must expect, at least sometimes, to have some negative effects on the consumer. Its a capitalist society and companies are free to do anything and everything they need to maximize profits, within the scope of the law.
Yes, it's real (Score:4, Informative)
Part of the article...
Sunbeltblog reports: A brief check of our database updates from Microsoft shows that Claria adware has been set to a default action of "Ignore" since at least early June (Claria continues to be listed in our database with a default action of "Quarantine").
You might recall that Microsoft acquired its antispyware application from GIANT, who had a close business relationship with Sunbelt Software. As part of the deal, Sunbelt continues to receive definitions from Microsoft until June 2007. Sunbelt, however, has its own research team and adds its own definitions to the database in addition to what they get from Microsoft.
In the current Spyware Weekly newsletter, Mike Healan of SpywareInfo.com comments:
I can't imagine what they are thinking at Microsoft. I would be hard pressed to think of a better way for Microsoft to alienate their users. I certainly hope that the opposition from within Microsoft prevails and that this deal dies on the negotiating table.
Ben Edelman has updated his write up to include the news of the changed detections.
This is exactly the kind of conflict of interest I worried about three paragraphs above--but I didn't anticipate how quickly this problem would come into effect!
Wayne Porter, blogging at ReveNews calls it Conflict of Interest 102 His site at SpywareGuide.com reports, interestingly enough, that Gator (Claria) is currently the top detection. See the site for full the top 10 list.
1 Gator 6.55% 2 MySearch 5.53% 3 CoolWebSearch 4.38% 4 180 Search Assistant 4.02%
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Re:Confirmed (Score:3, Informative)
Indeed, OR Mac OS X .. no spyware so far here either.
Re:Confirmed (Score:3, Interesting)
Personally, I do run Linux as my primary OS, with an install of Windows 2000 for all those times Linux just won't do. It's probably an 80/20 thing, maybe more, maybe less, depending on what I'm doing that day. Things like Photoshop, Dreamweaver and other "productivity apps" either don't have a Linux equivalent or don't have an equally functional Linux Equivalent. This
I guess it's "just" typical MS (Score:5, Insightful)
This sort of thing boils my blood. There is a certain level of trust I have with a vendor who provides detection and removal of spyware, etc. I've not payed as much attention as maybe I should have, but what other vendors are strong in detecting spyware that don't give in or at least haven't thus far? The product they purchased from Giant was really good to boot. Doesn't take look for the MS taint to occur, does it?
Unrelated, I get the impression, MS doesn't need more competent competition to fail. Instead, they need to continue doing just what they are doing. Between moves like this, the failure to manage projects, etc. they are hurting themselves just fine and making everything that isn't MS look better.
Every so often the MS marketing machine almost gets me to believe they might be changing. The developer blogs have helped a lot in that respect. Then MS does something like this. On the one hand they say they are concerned about this threat and then, not too long into the future, they pull a move like this which says the exact opposite.
In a related story (Score:3, Funny)
Photoshop? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Photoshop? (Score:5, Informative)
To their credit though you had to dig to find the Moderate label. The first thing a user will see is a rather largish (scary looking) red box encouraging them to block the software.
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Conflict of interest (Score:5, Interesting)
This is why you want your anti-spyware company making anti-spyware software and nothing else. Of all the software I've installed at one point or another, I remember Gator (along with later versions of Kazaa) being the worst about installing obnoxious unwanted software, not mentioning it, and then the software is a pain in the ass to remove. It clearly SHOULD be targeted by any software out there purporting to keep the user's best interests in mind, but Microsoft the Fox is, once again, guarding the henhouse that is your computer.
Anybody who puts their sole trust in a MS spyware-protector deserves what they get, especially when MS starts buying up spyware companies.
How Long (Score:3, Insightful)
How long before MS integrates Gator into the OS where it cannot be removed without corrupting the system?
My personal policy... (Score:4, Informative)
Therefore, I offer the following:
And, of course, the usual suspects: Firefox, Thunderbird, Open Office, etc... This is not just a good idea, it's THE LAW on the networks I manage!
Replace your Microsoft software today and avoid 90% of all problems that plague other Windows users.
You are welcome.
Re:My personal policy... (Score:4, Informative)
Sadly, on a network of any respectable size, this is a hard thing to accoplish. On my simple network of 50 stations I am forced to work with software that requires IE6.x, poweruser access along with unfettered access to the internet. It communicates over https, but it won't work through a proxy, so I have to open it up entirely.
I have a few apps that simply require power user along with some other weirdness.
So while I'd like to get rid of as many MS packages as possible, it's usually not practical.
Parent
I can confirm (Score:5, Informative)
Anyways, CONFIRMED.
Reasonable Explanation (Score:5, Funny)
Friggin' M$.
Slashdot Users: Stop Fixing Windows (Score:5, Interesting)
At this point I'm only supporting OS X and recommending anyone to get a Mac Mini when applicable. The world has moved on, the browser is the new platform, and it's time to stop supporting Microsoft if they continue to make the user experience miserable.
People might still complain a Mac Mini is expensive, but if you stop fixing Windows for them -- those Best Buy Geek Squad visits aren't cheap, either.
Interesting turn of events (Score:4, Insightful)
1. MS buying Giant means putting a great anti-spyware product into Windows. Windows becomes *stronger* at stopping such attacks.
2. MS possibly buying Claria means that Microsoft could eliminate one of the biggest pieces of spyware out there. In other words, Claria/Gator becomes *weaker*.
Now, it's possible that things will look like this:
1. Anti-spyware becomes *weaker*.
2. Claria/Gator becomes *stronger*.
So much for doing the right thing(s).
How much spyware? (Score:3, Interesting)
My laptop does not have an antivirus, spyware remover, or firewall. However, I've never had a problem. Probably because I update windows every time I use the computer and I disabled all but the imperative system services. And I've never had a virus, spyware, or any other sort of issue. Then again, I use firefox w/ flashblock & adblock and the like.
Is this the case for other slashdotters? Or am I the luckiest person this side of the Atlantic?
Cringely was right... (Score:3, Interesting)
January 7, 2005
Betting a Billion
Bob's Predictions for 2005
By Robert X. Cringely
1) Microsoft's entry into the anti-virus and anti-spyware businesses will be a disaster for users. This is based on everything I know about Microsoft, having watched the company for almost 28 years. They will make a big fanfare, spend a lot of marketing dollars, but in the end, the company simply won't be able to keep up with the demands of keeping virus signatures current, which isn't the real point of this gambit, anyway. There is so much to this story and so much that I could write that I think I'll do so next week, and just move on to the next prediction.
THIS IS EVIL! AND FLAME BAIT! (Score:4, Funny)
Claria = Gator = Spyware = Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
the price of desire (Score:5, Funny)
A week after I start dating some totally hot babe, event though she's a nagging idiot, I've downgraded my idiot detections and changed my recommended action from "quarantine" to "ignore".
-kgj
Not just Claria. (Score:5, Informative)
MS isn't dumb, and they have criteria for determining what is a moderate/high/critical spyware threat. A lot of times it comes from feedback to SpyNet. If adware comes bundled with an ad-supported product, doesn't hijack your browser, and removes cleanly when you uninstall the software it supports, it's a only moderate threat.
MS is also a big legal target and a monster in the eyes of many smaller software companies. They'd be getting sued non-stop if MSAS indiscriminately removed the adware from ad-supported products.
I did a cleanup of a seriously crufted-up machine last night. Claria, 180Solutions, WhenU, Comet Cursors were all set to Ignore. Kazaa and BearShare were set to Quarantine, and quarantining them would have snagged the adware they came bundled with.
CoolWebSearch, VX2, and the other real bastards were rated "Critical Risk" and set to "Remove."
I set everything to "Remove" and MSAS did just that without problems. Can't really complain.
Re:first post (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Take off the tin-foil hats... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, it's true that the usual reaction to MS stories tends to be kneejerk criticism often without much evidence of thought or rational balance. The baby gets the old heave ho along with the bath water more times than not. I usually urge a more reasonable approach based on the real contributions that MS has made to the IT industry and the fact that most major corporations behave the same way. I may not agree with MS's methods, but I try to keep an open mind, always aware of what MS has always represented. That said...NOT THIS TIME!
It's bad enough that the most pernicious and persistant tattle tale software on a MS box is probably the operating system. Take for example the index files in WIN98 that have never been explaned, the automatic updates in apps that can't be disabled, and services that reinstall themselves behind your back. I really do buy the 'least common denominator' explanation for a lot of these 'features', most users really don't understand their computers enough to maintain them, much less integrate new codecs, standards, and protocols. I do believe that making the default behaviors in many programs more update and security focused was a necessary step. MS often gets a bad rap for problems users could avoid by performing their recommended chores, especially installing patches. Bill Gates has recently touted a new focus on security, wanting to win back some customer trust. Whew, it was nice to see MS finally starting to turn in a new direction. Maybe I should have known better. The attitude expressed in this situation seems to be "Oh that's OK, it's just us, your friendly neighborhood MS. It was bad when those other guys did it, but you can trust us! By the way, could you enter your 16 digit authentication code and explain what that new unsupported by XP hardware is, since we really can't trust you?"
Microsoft could take the lead in creating really secure, customer oriented products. Maybe they would make a little less money if they gave up the drive to control every part of the industry. Would that kill them? IT is past the point where it needs one firm hand on the tiller to keep from sinking. Microsoft has the power and influence to change the face of software development. They could help make the world a better, freer place. Too bad the accountants have taken over from the dreamers.
billy - say it ain't so Bill...
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