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Anti-DMCA Petition in Canadian Parliament
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:52 AM
from the they're-a-different-country,-see? dept.
from the they're-a-different-country,-see? dept.
Matthew Skala writes "Last month we heard that the Canadian government is rejecting some of the worst features of the DMCA (more analysis here), but with Heritage Minister Liza Frulla parroting the media-cartel lobby with a promise to "give the tools to companies and authors to sue" and persuade children that downloading music for free is morally wrong even though it's presently legal in Canada, the battle is far from won. Yesterday, Member of Parliament Peter Julian (Burnaby-New Westminster, NDP) introduced the first batch of signatures on Digital Copyright Canada's Petition for Users' Rights. This isn't just a Web click-through petition that politicians can freely ignore; more than a thousand real hardcopy signatures have already been collected from Canadian residents opposed to further expansion of copyright privileges, and the campaign is hoping for many more. Additional coverage on p2pnet.net."
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Legal vs. moral (Score:5, Insightful)
If something's legal, it doesn't mean it's also moral and conversely, doing the morally right thing might not be legal at the time.
Re:Legal vs. moral (Score:5, Funny)
"Once something has been approved by the Government, It's no longer immoral."
Parent
Laws based on Morals. (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Laws based on Morals. (Score:5, Funny)
I find also that my morals are always infringing on my own rights and freedoms. Which is weird, because they're my morals, so they're right, but also they're wrong.
> So you see, you can't simply force a set of moral upon an entire population.
Not simply. It takes a lot of weaponry and planning.
> Morality is a personal choice.
OK.
> If someone chooses not to be moral,
> well there's no way you're going to force them to have a sense of
> morality.
Wait. So morality exists, and people choose to be moral or immoral? If morality exists absolutely, then how can you force morality onto someone? They either choose to be moral, or not.
> Part of freedom is being free to choose
All of freedom is being free to choose. That's it.
> and in this case being free to choose what you think is moral and immoral.
So if I choose to have no sense of morality, then what have I chosen?
You're confusing me. Stop it.
Parent
Re:Laws based on Morals. (Score:3, Funny)
BWAHAHAHAHA! Funniest thing I've read all week!
FREE WILL (Score:3, Insightful)
>All of freedom is being free to choose. That's it.
In the words of Geddy Lee (a Canadian, so this post is certainly ON TOPIC):
Re:Legal vs. moral (Score:3, Insightful)
It isn't stealing in Canada, by definition. Your opinion does not make law.
Max
Re:Legal vs. moral (Score:5, Insightful)
As has been stated many times, the levy goes to the copywrite holders (in Canada) not to the government.
It is (IMHO) that it is immoral to take our money and then try to convince us that we can't use what we have purchased.
Parent
Re:Legal vs. moral (Score:3, Insightful)
To me, it's the equivalent of someone photocopying Dilbert from the news paper, and passing it out during business meetings, etc.
or someone taking the newspaper from the breakroom, photocopying Dilbert, and adding it to his Dilbert collection, perhaps even scanning it and leaving it on an obscure page in his website, for people he wants to have. Why is not important in this case.
I mention this because the issue of photocopied comic strips getting distributed in offices
Teaching right from wrong (Score:5, Funny)
From the article:
Mabye she could start up a hip, happening new ad campaign like the SPA's Don't Copy that Floppy [versiontwo.org].
Mabye it will be just as effective, too.
Mabye I'm a Chinese jet pilot.
Re:Teaching right from wrong (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Teaching right from wrong (Score:3, Funny)
Up next "Pinch my ride!"
Re:Teaching right from wrong (Score:2)
Re:It isn't stealing (Score:3, Interesting)
Yep. We have the same thing and IIRC the official line is that it doesn't entitle us to copy copyrighted material except for our own private use. It's not an excuse to burn copies of an audio CD to your friends outside the immediate family, for instance. That's copyright infringement.
Interestingly, our taxi companies also have to pay for the music if the drivers want to have a radio on while driving around
I'm downloading the petition now. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'm downloading the petition now. (Score:5, Funny)
Ah well, at least the Canadians aren't burning down the white house anymore..
Parent
Re:I'm downloading the petition now. (Score:2)
Re:I'm downloading the petition now. (Score:3, Interesting)
If you replace 'passive' with 'not antagonistic' then you have it right.
Oh, and I think the Republican attempt to have the *federal* executive and legislative branches overturn a *state* *judicial* matter gives lie to that other bit.
Man, a hundred years ago, an attempt like that would have seen armed citizens in the streets.
Re:I'm downloading the petition now. (Score:5, Funny)
And this is a good thing???
Max
Parent
Re:I'm downloading the petition now. (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:I'm downloading the petition now. (Score:3, Funny)
And they sure did kick their own asses!
Re:I'm downloading the petition now. (Score:5, Informative)
And boy, does it show.
At the time of the War of 1812, there were two territories with the name "Canada" in them -- Upper Canada, and Lower Canada. People who lived in those territories were known as "Canadians" (or, in the case of Lower Canada, "les Canadiens").
A group can be a people with having a nation. Ever hear of the Kurds? The Palestinians? The Welsh?
There was a Canada before Confederation, and the people who lived there were Canadians. Yes, they were British subjects (although their loyalties to the British crown certain varied -- Native Canadians and French Canadians also participated in the War, but generally held no special loyalty to the crown), but there is nothing preventing anyone from calling them "Canadians", and being perfectly understandable and correct when they do so.
Yaz.
Parent
Re:I'm downloading the petition now. (Score:3, Informative)
Not saying that's neccessarily what happened here, but that would be my first guess given the situation you descr
Re:I'm downloading the petition now. (Score:3, Insightful)
You do the math, dear reader. For every one million dollars of revenue received by the record company, we got $50,000, to be split four ways. And we had to repay the recording, production and artwork expenses (also note we couldn't shop around to get the best rates on
Canada Rocks (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Canada Rocks (Score:5, Funny)
For God's sake, they've been here for four hundred years!
At this point they're about as French as English-speaking North America is British, no matter what Triumph the Insult Comic Dog says.
Parent
Here... (Score:4, Funny)
Enjoy.
Signatures (Score:3, Funny)
Shoot, that's half the country right there alrady opposed to it!
1000 Signatures... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:1000 Signatures... (Score:3, Interesting)
Something you should know about political contributions in Canada. There are strict limits on how much a company (or an individual) can contribute to politicians. Last I checked, it was something like $10,000 per party.
In theory, this is supposed to prevent politicians from being bought.
Canada Icon? (Score:5, Interesting)
I mean, how many YRO stories involve Canada doing something we wish was happening here? Don't we get more 'Canada' stories than, say, 'Transmeta' stories or 'Geeks in Space' stories?
Oh, sure, a Canada Icon. Next thing... (Score:5, Funny)
...you Canadians will be saying you want your own country, too. Then your own laws, maybe even your own economy...
Slippery slope, buddy. Slippery slope.
d^_^b
Parent
NDP took opposite stand during election (Score:3, Interesting)
In any case, no matter what Liz Frulla is saying to appease the lobby groups, if the legislation sticks to the proposed plan there should be no problem.
And what the article summary appears to have missed is that one of the things in the plan is to close the loophole that probably makes unauthorized downloading of copyrighted music legal in Canada.
This should go hand-in-hand with repealing the blank media levy, since it is supposed to be linked to the legalization of 'private copying', but no word on that yet.
Not that I'd expect it, though, the government has never met a tax dollar it didn't like.
Won't someone PLEASE think of the children? (Score:3, Funny)
"Everything starts with the children," she said. "They're the ones who say `recycle' and `don't smoke.' The Internet is their world."
Ah, yes, the children, and all the terrible things that might happen to them if this isn't passed.
Re:Won't someone PLEASE think of the children? (Score:3, Interesting)
At a recent conference on copyright at University of Toronto's Faculty of Law, she buttonholed the former chair of the standing committee, Sarmite Bu
I hope America decides to butt in... (Score:5, Funny)
Ive done it (Score:4, Funny)
Total time: 25 minutes
Cost to me: 50cents (postage)
Feeling empowered istead of victimized: Priceless
theres some laws you cant buy, for everything else theres internet petitions
Re:Ive done it (Score:3, Funny)
Postage: $0.50
Employees dumb enough to brag about their slackness on Slashdot so that you can conveniently round them up and fire them: priceless
There are some forms of misbehavior you can't punish. For everything else, there's Human Resources.
The world is becoming like the one in Aliens (Score:3, Insightful)
The quote might not be accurate but the power of corporations keep growing lately. Especially in the US where the laws keeping corporations in check are too weak.
A lot of conflicts where people died were partly because of corporations. Corporations get too powerful, violence has to happen to get the situation back to normal/livable. Happened in history lots of times. Mussolini said something like: "Fascism can be more accurately called corporatism"
It's happening right now as well, there was this piece in Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 911" where the population in a South-American country/province rebelled against a corporation and it's corrupt helpers. They were forbidden to collect and use rainwater from their own roofs because the water company wanted to sell more water at starvation prices.
I hope we can fight off software patents in Europe, I hope Canada can fight off this law. Better to do it now peacefully than having to do it violently later. Might already be too late for the US. Incredible how the doofuses there vote their enemies into government.
The most important thing is to keep thinking logically and optimistically. Keep an image of what you want in your head and things will work out. For example, think: "it's not too late for the US, things WILL work out better if we can just convince people of the truth, the brainwashed can not be convinced should be labeled not sane" etc.
Let them pass their meaningless laws... (Score:3, Interesting)
Until someone breaking such a law shows up in court, this will all mean nothing anyway. I would prefer the petition succeeds, but sooner or later, the entire damn thing will come crashing down simply because the law that the petition is against is essentially unenforcible anyway.
Trying to pass laws preventing computers from copying information and using the internet from sharing that information is like trying to pass a law saying you can buy scissors, but cannot use scissors to cut things.
It makes no sense to pass a law preventing you from using an item that you are permitted to own in a manner it is designed to be used.
END COMMUNICATION
Re:The NDP isn't in power. (Score:2)
Liza, a member of the NDP, wants the WIPO changes ratified into Canadian law, making the Canadian equivalent of the DMCA.
The petition is to uphold the rights of the user as-is and also to uphold the decision of the superior court than downloading is not stealing.
Re:The NDP isn't in power. (Score:2)
References:
http://www.liberal.ca/bio_e.aspx?&id=24024 [liberal.ca]
http://pm.gc.ca/eng/bio.asp?id=13 [pm.gc.ca]
Re:The NDP isn't in power. (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:The NDP isn't in power. (Score:5, Informative)
Also, given the latest sponsorship scandal (biggest scandal in Canadian politics in the last 10, maybe 20 years) the opposition parties will be looking for publically popular positions to use to 'gang up' on the ruling party.
This petition has some weight given its timing, and private member's bills have been known to successfully be passed...especially during minority governments.
Parent
Re:The NDP isn't in power. (Score:5, Informative)
Erm - WTF are you talking about? This isn't an "NDP" initiative, and even if it were our government is currently a MINORITY government, which gives all MP's, especially those sitting in opposition, significantly more power.
While I do not doubt that the politicians WILL ignore it, I think they do so at their peril. And just because I have no hope that they will lend credence to the petition does not mean I will not get everyone I know to sign it and send it to Parliament Hill in my MP's hands.
Parent
Weather The NDP is in power or not... (Score:4, Informative)
My MP (Jaff Brya Victoria-Becon Hill, [Libral]) happens to be a member of the ruling party, and ther more MP's whose contsituants ask their MP's to Present the petition to Parliament the stronger it looks!
Here is the Cool part: If I am correct, only 25 signitures are needed for each MP, so the more Rideings (Canadian for an MP's electoral district) who collect signitures, the better!
Copied from MY OWN AC post cus I forgot to turn cookies on in Firefox!
Parent
Re:Not about copyright at all (Score:3, Insightful)
Real, upstanding, proud citizens of the USA who carry themselves with humility, share their many gifts with their neighbours, and accept our many differences with grace are much loved here. I mean, we're family, right? I wouldn't discard my brother
Off-topic but needs to be said (Score:5, Insightful)
We could all learn a lot more about each other if we got rid of these attitudes and spent a little time getting to know one another's countries.
Parent
Re:Get the facts straight. (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, if by "downloading" you mean making a personal copy of someone else's commercial music, then you're wrong.
The Canadian Copyright Act specifically allows personal copies of music to be made. The U.S.A. has never had an equivalent exclusion in its copyright laws.
Parent
Re:Get the facts straight. (Score:4, Informative)
Parent