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iDownload Tries to Silence Spyware Critics
Posted by
timothy
on Wed Feb 23, 2005 01:33 PM
from the o-muerta dept.
from the o-muerta dept.
Doug Muth writes "According to this article over on DSL Reports, yet another spyware author, iDownload, has been sending out cease and desist letters to sites that classify their iSearch toolbar as Spyware. Some research reveals that yes, iSearch really does take over users' computers. A search on Spyware Guide also turns up a writeup on iSearch."
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Packets (Score:5, Interesting)
I have seen packets of it sending the current URL to questionable websites... especially right before it pops up a window.
Spyware, no doubt.
Re:Packets (Score:5, Insightful)
Spyware, no doubt.
So today's lesson is: Weasels will turn to the courts to shut up those who would warn the public
funny thing is, it's the same lesson we've been presented before [216.239.57.104].
Parent
Re:Packets (Score:5, Informative)
If you define "problem" to mean that you can loose in court, then I suspect that you would be OK.
If you define "problem" to mean that you wind up in court in the first place and have to blow your life savings and any equity in your house on lawyer fees, then I could see that there might be a problem.
Remember, the court appoints you an attorney for free ONLY in criminal matters. In civil court, you are on your own.
Parent
Re:Packets (Score:5, Funny)
Simple solution. Kill the CEO of the company suing you.*
*I'm joking, please don't sue me... or I'll kill your CEO.
Parent
Re:Packets (Score:4, Insightful)
It is a bully tactic...they are betting that the small anti-spyware sites don't have the cash flow to afford the inevitable legal fees. Fortunately, Kyle at [H]ard|OCP was willing to spend a quarter of a million dollars defending his right to have an opinion.
Parent
Remover? (Score:4, Informative)
My expierence with spyware companies leads me to belive that this is even worse than the original spyware, but if anyone with a computer they're willing to sacrifice or a honeypot for spyware wants to try it, they've at least provided something that they claim will remove their spyware...
Parent
Re:Remover? (Score:5, Interesting)
iDownload.com, Inc. DBA iSearch Internet provides applications which help to subsidize the free content and product offerings of many publishers. iSearch applications are not spy ware and do not collect any personally identifiable information about users. Additionally, iSearch applications do not hijack home pages, promote obscene material, alter/add items to user's favorites, modify security related settings, prevent security related applications from running, or alter cookies or url's to receive credit for affiliate driven sales.
If you wish to remove the iSearch applications from your computer, you may download our automated removal mechanism.
Please be aware that many so called "ad ware removers" and "spy ware removers" can cause damage to your computer and may alter your computer in such a way that our automated removal application will not function. At the present time, there is no third party software which is capable of removing iSearch applications. If you have purchased an application which claims to remove iSearch, we encourage you to contact your credit card company and request an immediate reversal with the reason of "Product Not As Described" and/or contact the Better Business Bureau.
Parent
Cute. Nice cancerware. (Score:5, Interesting)
Gee, and how might they do that? Surely not anything that'll annoy the fuck out of me?
iSearch applications are not spy ware and do not collect any personally identifiable information about users.
No, just everything else. Methinks iDownload doth protest too much - I've never heard a EULA (or whatever) claim NOT to be spyware unless it WAS spyware.
Additionally, iSearch applications do not hijack home pages, promote obscene material, alter/add items to user's favorites, modify security related settings, prevent security related applications from running, or alter cookies or url's to receive credit for affiliate driven sales.
That's a better definition of malware than spyware, though not inclusive regardless.
At the present time, there is no third party software which is capable of removing iSearch applications.
Hm. So, in other words, we've p0wned your box. But we're not spyware, of course not.
If you have purchased an application which claims to remove iSearch, we encourage you to contact your credit card company and request an immediate reversal with the reason of "Product Not As Described" and/or contact the Better Business Bureau.
Uh huh, it's Norton who needs to be reported to the BBB. Not the bunch of assholes who have done everything possible to keep their cancerware on your box.
Parent
Re:Packets (Score:5, Insightful)
Suck-AssWare?
Parent
Doesn't matter (Score:5, Insightful)
If it gets into the court system and doesn't get outright dismissed, then its a problem.
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:5, Insightful)
Gator became Claria, as I recall, right around the time they started using these tactics. I wonder if someone can find an update on the outcome of their C&D orders. My guess is there wasn't any - it was just hot air.
Parent
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:5, Interesting)
WARNING: 'ChangeYourToolBar.exe' isn't spyware. It is a program that changes your toolbar with its own custom version, without asking your permission. If you think this is an illegitimate program, please click on the check box to delete.
Now this removes the burden-of-proof from anti-spyware programs, and lets the user decide whether he should keep it or not based on the description.
Kashif
Parent
Does too matter (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus there's always the chance that iDownload has discovered some obscure bit of legislation or precedent that gives them the upper hand legally. You think the people who write laws and court decisions always have the same view of "fair" as you do?
New Yorker cartoon, showing lawyer talking to client. "Sir, you have a very good case. But before we can proceed, we have to settle one small issue: exactly how much justice can you afford?"
If this outrages you, well, it should. Best way to express this is by contributing to any anti-spyware defenese funds that get organized.
Parent
Re:Does too matter (Score:5, Informative)
That's one way. Another is to rediscover our right of Jury Nullification [greenmac.com].
People will quit filing bullshit lawsuits when juries stop handing them victories.
LK
Parent
Re:Does too matter (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
It's called SLAPP (Score:5, Informative)
- Company X does something bad
- Citizen Group Y complains about it (in a newsletter, road sign, whatever)
- Knowing that Citizen Group Y has limited funds and cannot afford a long, protracted legal battle, Company X files a lawsuit against Citizen Group Y, claiming they're disparaging their product or otherwise defaming their business (can you believe there's actual laws that serve as a basis for this crap? I mean, what the hell is "food disparagement" anyway?)
- Citizen Group Y caves in, Company X resumes doing evil without tarnishing its good name
Fortunately, more and more states are getting wise and passing Anti-SLAPP laws, which gives legal grounds for requesting early dismissal of a SLAPP suit. Even though this might not keep you out of court, early dismissal can prevent protracted, expensive legal battles.Parent
You'd render us lawyerless (Score:3, Funny)
But then again (Score:5, Funny)
One is a dark creature that crawls in filthy dejects and spreads panic and pain wherever it shows. The other is a small rodent.
Parent
Hardly surprising (Score:4, Funny)
Not Spyware? (Score:5, Funny)
I deem thee, "Assware"
Re:Not Spyware? (Score:5, Insightful)
Also from TFA: iSearch is a toolbar that in no way attempts to remain hidden or evade detection.
That's an understatement! iSearch is about as in-your-face as it gets.
Personally, I've never liked the term SpyWare as it seems to focus on a very narrow aspect of the problem (i.e. gathering of personal information). A better, more encompassing term might be "HijackWare". Although AssWare is certainly accurate enough.
I think that any software that resists removal by the end user should be outlawed. True, the user may have volunarily (and probably unknowingly) installed the software. But then actively preventing them from discontinuing use is criminal (IMHO). I certainly can't think of any product that behaves similarly (except perhaps the Happy Fun Ball [happyfunball.com]. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!).
Parent
Re:Not Spyware? (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
a letter to stop sending letters (Score:3, Insightful)
Everyone should write them a letter to quit having their toolbar hijack your computer!
http://www.immigrantornot.com/ [immigrantornot.com]
Yea definitly spyware.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Regards,
Steve
Re:Yea definitly spyware.... (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
You should report that to ICSA (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
No need for alarm (Score:5, Informative)
Could happen to you... (Score:5, Insightful)
Eventually this is going to happen to legit companies. I make a taskbar icon program [clinko.com]. I'll admit it's pretty shitty because it's beta. Also, You see more ads because of using it than not using it... (It links to pages with ads on them.)
Is it spyware/Adware because I want to pay for a work in progress?
Re:Could happen to you... (Score:5, Informative)
The software may conveniently without your input or interaction install Third Party Software on your computer
There is really only one way to look at that
http://toolbar.isearch.com/terms.html
Parent
Re:Could happen to you... (Score:5, Interesting)
Further, you agree that you will not initiate, permit, authorize or assist any third party or application to remove the Software from your computer, or disrupt its operation or the operation of any other user. You agree that removal of the Software from your computer will only be performed by you pursuant to the instructions set forth herein.
does this mean that i can't clean up the spywa^H^H^H^H^Hsoftware on my wife's machine for her?
Parent
Violation of the EULA (Score:5, Insightful)
How's that again?
Virg
Parent
Re:Could happen to you... (Score:3, Insightful)
Does it change your home page, refuse to uninstall, and demand $39.99 for an uninstaller once installed?
Probably not. Nobody who thought they were just providing a service would do that....
Well duh (Score:3, Insightful)
Hey, you know something? (Score:5, Interesting)
iDownload won't even know what hit them.
Re:Hey, you know something? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Hey, you know something? (Score:5, Insightful)
But its profit margins are going to start being hit if using Windows becomes too unpleasant an experience, and malware is threatening just that for the average user. Hence the interest in spam prevention/filtering, firewalls, anti-virus, and anti-spyware software.
Parent
Counter suits (Score:3, Interesting)
MHO, of course...
Here's his lawyer's address (Score:3, Informative)
mark@ssjmlaw.com
Mark D. Hopkins
Telephone: (512) 347-1604
Fax: (512) 347-1676
The Overlook at Gaines Ranch
4330 S. Mopac, Ste. 150
Austin, Texas, 78735
From the link (Score:5, Informative)
If that isn't spyware, I don't what is. In fact, isn't that the definition of "spyware"?
They also claim to "conveniently without your input or interaction; install software from iSearch affiliates; and install Third Party Software".
That's scary stuff!
iCrap (Score:5, Funny)
CEASE AND DESIST (Score:5, Funny)
This firm represents iDownload.com with respect to your inaccurate classification of iDownload's software product, Search toolbar, by referring to it as Spyware in its description. Specifically, a recent review of materials disseminated by your company, via the Internet, revealed that your company is falsely disparaging iDownload's product, Search, in that Castle Cops f/k/a Computer Cops, L.L.C. classifies the product as Spyware and articulates that,
* iSearch is certified spyware/foistware, or other malware.
Castle Cops f/k/a Computer Cops, L.L.C.'s characterization of iSearch as Spyware is damaging to the iDownload brand. As we all know, Spyware is a phrase within the public conscience that has a specific meaning. A classification of Spyware is usually reserved for those programs that not only have the ability to scan an end- user's computer, but also seek to remain unnoticed or hidden, and also seek to gather personal information such as passwords, account numbers, etc. of the end-user. iSearch does not fit this profile.
iSearch does not qualify as Spyware. iSearch is a toolbar that in no way attempts to remain hidden or evade detection. Continuing, unlike Spyware, iSearch does not gather any personally identifiable information about end users, does not collect data about the user's web usage, does not collect any information entered into web forms, does not share information with third parties, does not send or cause to be sent unsolicted e-mail, and does not install items such as dialers on the end user's computer. Rather, Search will molest your children, burn down your home, and make your PC act like an Apple II. In Soviet Russia, Search searches you.
We would request that you correct your disseminated materials immediately to remove any reference to iSearch as Spyware, Foistware, or Malware. To the extent you fail to remedy your improper disparagement of the iDownload brand on or before February 15, 2005, we will neuter an EA programmer on the hour, every hour. Should you have any questions regarding the foregoing, please feel free to contact me.
Best Regards,
Mark D. Hopkins
iSearch and iDownload are wonderful! (Score:4, Funny)
Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with iSearch. I do not work here. I mean there. I dont work at iSearch. Promise.
Does iDownload need a problem? I'll give them one. (Score:5, Interesting)
It would be interesting that as a Federal Agency, we deemed these programs malicious software, and seek Federal action against the companies who make these applications with a C&D of our own. Spyware constitutes spying. Without clear permission from the user, we shoud be fighting these companies on our own front.
Stay tuned.
Re:Does iDownload need a problem? I'll give them o (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:What? (Score:5, Insightful)
I can sue you for wasting the planet's oxygen. (You're breathing, right?) The court will throw the suit out immediately, but I can file it. This also forces you to defend it, which means hire a lawyer, spend money, etc. It's a form of bullying.
So what it really comes down to is, these slimeballs are saying, "If you call our stuff spyware, we're going to harass you, make your life difficult, and cost you a bunch of money". It's a form of bullying.
Welcome to the United States, home of the "free" (how come we aren't free from this kind of nonsense?)
Parent
Re:Just let us know (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:How to make them stop quacking? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Informative)
I write software for a living, and sell it for a living, and support it, etc.
I am not the least bit worried about other people's software uninstalling mine.
Why?
Because, it's ultimately the end-users decision. The owner or owners of a PC get to decide what to do with it. Would I be pissed if a competitor was targetting my stuff and auto-breaking/disabling it? Yes. Are there legal remedies available to me? You bet.
I am I pissed if an end-user decides to install some software that decides my software is bad? NO, not at all. Why is it bad? For disk space reasons, performance, or some bogus false-flag? What can I do to make my software better, that's what I am interested in.
Citizens have final total dominion over their private property, and that's how it should be. If someone wants to install something that breaks one of "my" products, well then, too bad for me.
Parent
Re:The Law of Uninteded Consequences (Score:5, Informative)
No. There's no copyright issue whatsoever.
They might be able to argue that the spyware removal software is interfering with contracts between them and their users (as I believe some actually have tried to argue), but good luck convincing a court. At best, they could try to sue the people who installed their spyware, agreed to their ridiculous EULA, and then broke the EULA by removing it. I imagine the first person sued under those pretenses would just need to get a single Windows users on the jury, countersue for 1 billion dollars, and seize all of the spyware company's assets.
Parent