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New Legal Center for Open Source Projects

Posted by CmdrTaco on Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:38 AM
from the fighting-the-good-fight dept.
Government The Courts News
NW writes "According to a News.com story well known OSS lawyers Lawrence Lessig and Eben Moglen are launching a new "Software Freedom Legal Center" to assist open source developers with legal issues for free." You can view the website at Softwarefreedom.org.
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New Legal Center for Open Source Projects 50 Comments More /

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    • Well the catch is... it's free up until you end up looking at exhibit A. At that point, the code analysis will not be up to the lawyer. That's for sure.

      • What, lawyers can't understand code? Please. I will graduate from law school in May and I am perfectly capable of understanding code. You see, before we can get in to law school, we have to get at least a bachelors degree. Some of us, like myself, have degrees in computer science. I may not be a regular contributor to the Linux kernel, but I am more than capable of parsing and understanding code. Granted, that won't always be the best use of my time as an attorney, but not every case is SCO v. IBM and
        • Because it's impractical. Besides, there are many OSS/FS developers who are paid for their work (Novell employees, for instance).

  • Too late. (Score:5, Funny)

    by grub (11606) <slashdot@grub.net> on Tuesday February 01 2005, @11:48AM (#11541324) Homepage Journal

    IBM could have used these guys against SCO and saved a fortune.
    • No they could have not. IBM is not and OSS project and they do not qualify for the help of this center. Also I doubt it that IBM would have choset to go this way even if it had enough power and was suited for the purpose. After all IBM is still a closed source company even though they opened 600 patents. Hey, 600 patents is a drop in the sea when IBM filed for over 2300 patents just last year.
  • Eben's a great guy is certainly a David against many Goliaths. Glad to hear about the Software Freedom Law Center! He has his work cut out for him in updating the GPL as there are many IP issues that will need to get worked out with the BigCos that regularly use and/or distribute GPL'd software. Glad to see he's getting some help from people like Weitzner and Lessig (don't know Diane Peters, but I'm sure she's good).

    • Lessig? (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Is having Lessig on board a good thing? Has he ever won a case? I stopped following his blog after he started to wig-out over the 2004 election. And I find his message harder to relate to. Stallman, etc. are focused on *creating* new Free Software, not trying to get free access to previously copyrighted work (which seems to be the message of Lessig's two latest books). That's a much harder flag to rally around IMHO. (Yeah, I'm well aware of CC). He also seems to be to much of a do-gooder. What's the

  • It's a great start (Score:5, Insightful)

    by winkydink (650484) * <sv.dude@gmail.com> on Tuesday February 01 2005, @11:52AM (#11541363) Homepage Journal
    Though I cannot see how much trial work a staff of 4 will be able to handle. One major suit could tie them all up.

    • Re:It's a great start (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Wordsmith (183749) on Tuesday February 01 2005, @12:36PM (#11541907) Homepage
      At least if there's a major suit, there's now a dedicated staff of four to help. When America sees a DVD-Jon, these guys could come in handy.
    • I'm not really in the know when it comes to leagal offices, but in the medical profession there are a small army of nurses, technicians, and residents for every doctor on staff. It's probably the same thing on the law side.
    • But the staff of four includes Eben Moglen and Lawrence Lessig. These guys are TOPS. I'm sure they would make fine Supreme Court justices even.
    • I suspect that, as with the EFF and other organizations, the number of available attorneys is not necessarily reflected by the number of staff. I suspect that Prof. Moglen and friends have put together a list of attorneys who are willing to do pro-bono work for the Center. I know that all of us have our favorite lawyer jokes, but there are still a few that do work for the public good, whether or not that work is remunerative.

      If you're concerned about the number of lawyers and other resources available to

  • They aren't doing it for free... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by hsmith (818216) on Tuesday February 01 2005, @11:52AM (#11541370)
    Well, I doubt it is with all free intentions. Lawyers are required to do a certain amount of probono work a year, maybe this is their segment of it? Granted it is a great idea and will help many people, I doubt they have the resources to fight lengthly big battles for OSS.

    but a little legal help is better than none.
    • Anything's got to be better than all of the IANAL posts you typicially get here in a legal situation :)
    • "free intentions"? I think we can trust Lessig's intentions. As far as pro-bono...that doesn't make it any less of a contribution. According to the ABA Rule 6.1, the amount of hours of public service is 50 a year. Now obviously that is a week's worth of work, but I believe these guys will probably putting even more into it as well. I love that the ABA promotes probono, does the Medical Association do the same? Just wondering cause I really don't know.
      • Hospitals routinely eat the costs of uninsured patients. I believe there are
        laws that make it illegal for a hospital to refuse necessary care based on
        whether or not the patient is insured or not (read: can pay or not).

        Perhaps someone in search of karma can hunt down some links that explain
        the legal obligations of Hospitals in this regard.
      • why is there a "public defender's office"... why don't they just have all defense attorneys in the public defenders pool? Your number comes up you do it no questions asked.

        Because the 6th amendment* in the bill of rights only covers criminal trials, not civil trials. I assume that most open source cases are civil matters.

        *Yes, I intentionally made this US centric since that was the subject of the article.

  • what about (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mottie (807927) on Tuesday February 01 2005, @11:55AM (#11541399)
    "to assist open source developers with legal issues for free"

    now all we need is someone that work for free to go after people that abuse the GPL

    ie: Sveasoft (http://slashdot.org/~Featureless/journal/ [slashdot.org] )

    • Also (Score:3, Interesting)

      by spellraiser (764337)

      Free Software Foundation founder Richard Stallman is working to update the General Public License [com.com] (GPL) that governs Linux and hundreds of other open-source projects. The law center said it will help with that work.

      A crucial task, in my opinion. More specifially, Stallman and co. are planning to protect GPL code better legally from the threat of patent litigation. Software patents are a relatively recent, and (in the opinion of many, including myself) harmful phenomenon. Updating the GPL to somehow lessen

    • Hello, I read some of the information about the link you posted and all that Linksys firmware thing. I think this question is aimed for TheIndividual, why bother fighting with this Sveasoft?

      You know, that WRT54G firmware is Free Open Software, isn't it easier to get the last version and just create a fork, and improve it, at the end, people will have the option of "suscribing" to Sveasoft to download its "version" or just going to the page where the Open version is and download it.

      what do you think?
    • I think "go[ing] after people that abuse the GPL" counts as "assist[ing] open source developers with legal issues". I cannot see anything on their WWW site saying that they only do defence work.
  • Are there any legal centers for Open projects that aren't software? Has anyone even taken on a project such as an openbook or openmusic? I believe Lessig has released a book under a CC licence, but are there any others?
  • The first thing they should post is a detailed explanation of why nobody releases software into the public domain.

      • Re:Public Domain (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Exactly...

        PD is true freedom, it's true generosity, it's true love of the art, it's true advancement of the science.

        GPL is still working for free, yet making your code to hard to use as to scare most people away from touching it.

        Even if you are writing code 10 lib levels away from some tiny GPLed thing that you didn't even know about, you are still infected. Developing code on Linux is a lot like a doctor working on an ebola patient. No matter how careful you are, you stand a good chance of succuming.
      • Bzzzt. Wrong.

        The reason nobody releases software in the public domain is that it would expose them to liability for bugs found in it. You can't make use of it depend on acknowledging the lack of
        warranty etc. if in fact anybody can use it without restriction.
  • Did anyone notice that none of the lawyers on that site have any technical experience? It's all wonderful to talk about patents from the point of view of "legal" freedoms and history, but our world is a little more complicated than that.

    Yet another bunch of "Intellectual Property" lawyers that aren't even admitted to practice before the US Patents and Trademarks office.
    • Did anyone notice that none of the lawyers on that site have any technical experience?

      Since when does everyone need to have ultra l33t tech skills to analyze the matters of law and fact that apply to a given technical situation? That's like saying insurance agents are not qualified to analyze the legal questions of car accidents because they don't understand how to install an intake manifold.
    • First, "admitted to practice before the US Patents and Trademark office" isn't what it sounds like. All this certification gives you is the ability to write patents. That's it. You can still litigate, license, attack, etc. patents.

      Second, just because you have technical experience doesn't mean you qualify to practice before the USPTO. For example, I will be an IP lawyer in less than 9 months (thank God it's almost over!). Before law school, I was a software engineer for over 6 years. I know software. But,
  • cases dealing with software (ip, facilitating piracy, and patents) can be extremely complex... how much can these guys possibly handle at one time?
  • ..Open Bar opens its doors. It's founded by current Montavista counsel Jason Wacha and ex-VA Legal VP Gwyn Murray. Mozilla's Mitchell Baker is also involved. Looks like there is finally some more activity to build a more focused effort on legal issues rather than just a lot of IANAL threads in /.
      • Buddie, some people doesn't understand your humor sense. Err, wait, I trapped myself talking to myself *again*. I will finish my autoconversation in other ocasion, better ran to visit the psycoanalyst. Sorry for the inconvenience. Arg! Dub dub.
    • Oh spare us the whining and the condescension. "Hijacking" words? I was going to post a rebuttal to that idiotic proposition but I suddenly realized I shouldn't waste my time responding. So I'll play along, yes, we're hijacking words, and you're going to sit there and take it because you can't do anything about it.
    • hello Americans there is a whole world out there so stop hijacking words and understand that free software is a global thing , the sooner you get it the better for everybody

      And why do dumb fucks like you keep trying to read more into an anouncement than people are actually saying. What part of that anouncement states that they are a "world" protection or anything of the sort. Cause I shure as hell didn't read it. As for "free software" exclusively an American thing now ? I don know where the fuck yo
      • I do agree with you. Not sure where the parent poster is getting "hijacking" from. Does the poster mean to say that no one can legally represent a person/group concerning free software unless they deal with all forms of law in the world?

        Yes, "Americans" can mean "anyone in the western hemisphere" since that consists of North America, Central America, and South America. However, do Mexicans, Canadians, or Brazillians refer to themselves as Americans? (I'm just curious). Technically "Americans" can mean
        • Yes, "Americans" can mean "anyone in the western hemisphere" since that consists of North America, Central America, and South America. However, do Mexicans, Canadians, or Brazillians refer to themselves as Americans? (I'm just curious). Technically "Americans" can mean anyone in the west hemisphere, but it's not used that way in practice.

          Though I agree that "American" can be interpreted to mean "from/of the Americas" (and it is used that way in biology), it is NOT generally used that way to refer to peop

          • it is NOT generally used that way to refer to people anywhere in the Americas.

            That is exactly my point in the original post. "American" can be interpreted that way, but as I said, "it's not used that way in practice."

          • "No Canadians would refer to themselves as Americans...."

            That's for the same reason you might be quick to distinguish yourself from someone else carrying your name: "Heh, uh, no not THAT Trump. NO relation. In fact, I mostly use my mother's name Gnizprtzky. It's just easier."

            Somewhat related: The following appeared in a 1970s edition of National Lampoon entitled 'Canada - The Retarded Giant on our Doorstep':

            Q: Why is Canada always pink on the map?

            A: From embarrassment

      • You show equal ignorance by using "Americans" which applys to anyone in the western hemisphere seeing as how everyone there is in "the Americas". So stop wasting your breath.

        Actually, for some reason I do recall that the term "American" was implied (since my childhood by otheer Americans) to mean only those born in the US of A. Maybe I was just educated stupid just like all the other Americans... Oh wait...
        • "You show equal ignorance by using "Americans" which applys to anyone in the western hemisphere seeing as how everyone there is in "the Americas"."

          Europe is generally in what is considered the "Eastern Hemisphere." Unless Europeans are working from a different definition than those of us in the Americas.

          And here I thought the stereotype was that Americans didn't know geography.

          Agreed, but you should also understand that most Americans come accross as if they don't.

          Ah, more stereotyping. I think you

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