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Chief of eBay's Indian Site Arrested, Released
Posted by
timothy
on Wed Dec 22, 2004 04:15 AM
from the stupid-lucky-high-school-kids dept.
from the stupid-lucky-high-school-kids dept.
An anonymous reader writes "As reported, Avinash Bajaj, the CEO of Baazee.com, the Indian subsidiary of eBay, was arrested by the Indian police for distributing pornography. What really seems to have happened is that two high school students from Delhi Public School filmed themselves having oral sex, and this video was distributed through Delhi by email. Some time later, Ravi Raj Singh, a college student from IIT Delhi, offered his VCD of the 157-second clip for sale on Baazee. Avinash Bajaj has now been released on bail, but his U.S. passport is still impounded. AP report here." In reaction to the scandal, SoumyaRay writes, "the Indian government is planning a law based on the DMCA that would establish the responsibility of the corporation when dealing with copyrighted materials. The law 'would deal with four categories of functions by a service provider: transitory communications, system caching, storage of information on systems or networks and information location tools.' Does this differ in any major way with the DMCA? What is being overlooked and what is the potential for abuse? What would you propose?"
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+5 informative for the .torrent (Score:5, Funny)
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:+5 informative for the .torrent (Score:2, Funny)
It's not worth it (Score:3, Funny)
This is quite old (Score:5, Informative)
Check out this month's archive [cpsr.org].
Particularly, see the threads MMS saga has unexpected consequences and Mahesh Murthy sends you Release the CEO of eBay India (Baazee) - a travesty of cyber-law and e-commerce Petition
People have been petitioning the release of Bajaj for a while, and this is going to have some very serious repurcussions, too.
Re:This is quite old (Score:3, Funny)
My proposal (Score:5, Insightful)
My proposal? Let people have their pornography. Sex is something for everyone and I really don't understand how cultures get so upset about it; after all, it is the most important human function.. our society is built on the foundations of sexual relationships. India may be a democracy but theres no point in democracy if you're no more free than you would be under a tyrant. Freedom is not the same as democracy.
Simon.
Re:My proposal (Score:5, Insightful)
While the arrest of Bajaj (the CEO) was wrong, I do not see why it was wrong on the part of the government to clamp down on the distribution of the video.
She shared her intimate moments with someone she trusted, and the jerk betrayed her. This is less about sex and more about privacy.
Parent
Re:My proposal (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:My proposal (Score:5, Insightful)
I have to disagree with you on that last point. Baazee took down the auction as soon as they became aware of it. They did the right thing from the very beginning as far as I can tell. There was no intent on the part of Baazee to distribute pornography.
Suppose one day someone slid some child pornography under your front door. Would you believe that you should be fined or arrested for possession of those materials? You certainly never planned on possessing those materials any more than Baazee planned on selling pornographic materials.
In situations like this there has to be intent in order for their to be wrongdoing.
Parent
Re:My proposal (Score:5, Informative)
there are tales of temples where women who couldn't have children would spend the night and the god would come down to them and miraculously impregnate them (umm yeah.. god.. right..)
i'm not even going to mention the kama sutra or the japanese and chinese pillow books.
most asian cultures were sexually very liberal. we are talking bastardy, social recognition given to courtesans, the whole works.
it is the western missionaries that brought sexual repression to the east. when the victorian missionaries showed up with their straitlaced attitudes, that was the end of the good times as far as most people were concerned.
since then the cultures have been holding on to this prudery while AT THE SAME TIME screwing around.
the east never had a sexual revolution like america did. its more of a gradual slide. and there are people who, like king canute, try to stem the tide by ordering it not to be.
atb
suchetha
Parent
Re:My proposal (Score:5, Interesting)
Not so. China had liberal attitudes toward sex before and under Tang (581-617), but thereafter declined into more social control. It has nothing to do with Christianity or westerners. Chinese people have always been sexually open, just that it is taboo talking about it. The Chinese prudence is on the surface and on the surface only. The same goes for most of Asia. Japan, although very influenced by the West, is probably the most extreme country in the world when it comes to sex. Yet there is prudence also in Japan.
The impact of Christianity in China is virtually none. This is fortunate.
Parent
Re:My proposal (Score:4, Funny)
>general are happier here, unless they are very
>poor.
So, rich people in China are happier than poor people.
>It seems to be that the richer you get, the less
>happy you get.
Wait, so rich people in China are LESS happy than the poor people?
>At least this has been the recent trend in the
>West, and there are signs of it also in booming
>China.
Wait, so in China, rich people were happier than poor people, but now that their richer, they're less happy?
Bruce
Parent
Re:My proposal (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:My proposal (Score:2)
"...I really don't understand how cultures get so upset about it..."
followed almost imediatly by " it is the most important human function.. our society is built on the foundations of sexual relationships."
I realize how easy it is to miss how contradictory those two segments are, so please don't think I'm beating up on you.
Sexual attitudes and mores are hammered in from day one almost and NOT having some blind spots from your cultures ou
Re:My proposal (Score:2)
While I'm certainly not pro banning pornography, you have to bear in mind that like any form of media, it's going to exert some influence on its viewers.
Take images of degradation or abuse - even if they're staged, their existance, and, the connection the mind forges between those images and the mass of happy-chemicals your mind produces is going to give you one hell of a Pavlovian response - I don't think that's under much debate. And onc
Re:My proposal (Score:2)
This isn't about the tape.
It's about the mistreatment of a corporate executive due to activity that his company prohibits. The right to have sex falls somewhere behind personal freedom to travel, IMO.
Re:My proposal (Score:2, Insightful)
Of course, t
Re:My proposal (Score:5, Insightful)
A video of someone over the age of consent having consensual intercourse hardly qualifies as kiddie porn. Indeed, considering it such is a bit of an insult to children who were actually sexually abused.
Parent
Re:My proposal (Score:3, Funny)
There was no Indian Anal in this film..period...Stop the fud.
Potential for abuse: (Score:4, Funny)
A link to the .torrent?
Insanity (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: Insanity (Score:2, Insightful)
The word "responsible" is what it boils down to here. One should determine guilt on "Who was responsible for it?".
If you run a website, and you do maintenance personally, than you are responsible for putting content on the site. If I upload some kiddie porn to my site, then I did that, and I should be held responsible for that.
Even more... (Score:5, Funny)
So this can only mean one thing - Hot Indian babes *do* put out!
Can I outsource myself to India now?
Are they going to arrest (Score:5, Insightful)
The CEOs of the Railway companis for transporting criminals.
The managers of several hotels for hiding criminals.
This is insane. vajk
When are the Indian going to call on Condi ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Any Indians been put in jail recently because of the Patriot Act? Never mind
She's furious because of the eBay connection.
Re:When are the Indian going to call on Condi ? (Score:4, Interesting)
Reminiscent of the Union Carbide accident in Bhopal, in 1984, which killed about 20,000 people. The CEO, Warren Anderson, came over to see the aftermath and was arrested on homicide charges by the local police chief. A few days later, after heavy pressure from the US govt, he was released, immediately departed India, and though India has been pressing for his extradition ever sence, he remains free and very rich.
Meanwhile hundreds, or thousands, of Westerners rot in jail in Asia on minor and quite often trumped-up drug chrges, and their embassies turn a blind eye. Using drugs is much worse than killing a few thousand third-worlders after all.
Parent
Re:When are the Indian going to call on Condi ? (Score:3, Interesting)
The way I heard it, he was released on bail, rather than as a result of government pressure. He promptly left India never to return. He is, of course, now a fugitive from justice, but naturally that is no bar to his continuing comfortable lifestyle in the US. They were only Indians who died, after all...
Let The FlameWar begin (Score:5, Informative)
2) This not regular old porno. The girl involved in this did not give her conest to the release of the video - nor did she know she was being filmed
3) Strict moral standards blah blah bullshit. It's just that in this particular case is publicised so the police had to act. The bottom line is, that these people got caught. Otherwise, sale of porno in India is rampant (but yes, it's illegal).
Feel free to post a few comments here [blogspot.com]
Re:Let The FlameWar begin (Score:2)
Oh no, you're quite wrong there - she did know she was being filmed.
In fact, it is said that in the clip itself, the guy asks her for an upskirt shot and she refuses.
Re:Let The FlameWar begin (Score:2)
And if she knew she was being filmed (which she did), she should realize that there is the potential that the film would be released to the world. Anybody that takes the time to film themselves (espcecially doing this), must understand the potential reprecussions of doing that
Re:Let The FlameWar begin (Score:2)
Firstly, the problem is that the guy distributed the video without her consent. Secondly, the video clip was found on eBay's subsidiary Bazee - but Bazee was not authorized to distribute pornographic material.
So, it becomes a violation of privacy and unauthorized distribution of pornographic material.
All in all, despite everything the real victim is the girl. Unfortunate, really.
Re:Let The FlameWar begin (Score:3, Interesting)
That's what the ban against underaged sex is for - the underaged are supposedly not as able to understand the many possible consequences of their actions (having a child is a long term responsibility).
That said, most adults including me are not much better
Re:Let The FlameWar begin (Score:3, Informative)
The truth is that the video was put on baazee on a friday evening and had sold quite a few copies over the weekend before the next business day i.e monday.It was taken right away on monday after the CEO himself asked for its removal.I dont think its right to blame the CEO for this.
It's a travesty (Score:4, Informative)
What started off as a prank, teenage goofing, moment of madness - name what you like, was not only copied several times over, but also packaged and sold. So far, nothing out of the ordinary honestly. Such things have happened in the past elsewhere as well.
What really got things going was the sale of the content via a website, I guess. The ease of content transmission, coupled with the fact that it was two students from a well-known (and reputed, if i may say so myself) which were on camera, was what fuelled the controversy big time.
As has been the case with administration and police in India in the past, they appear to believe that the best means of solving a crime is to rake the muck and/or shoot in the dark, hoping something would give. Since they did not have the seller (or even his identity) initially, they resorted to the worst interpretation of the law - holding the owner of the website (www.bazee.com) responsible for the content!
It's a travesty that the CEO had to spend time in one of the most notorious jails of India (the Tihar Jail [tiharprisons.nic.in]).
The law. (Score:3, Informative)
Still Waiting for the Day (Score:2)
Once we have settled that, perhaps we can just go back to the perfectly reasonable model where you just file a complaint with the service provider, which can then take appropriate action.
Next up after the commercial break: AT&T director sentenced to 5 years jailtime because of indecent phone calls routed through
Need to Correct Facts in the News Item (Slashdot) (Score:2, Informative)
The students (both minors legally) are from a school in Delhi.
What is the problem? (Score:2, Insightful)
It's not like this is some kind of kiddy rape, these are consentual activities by young adults having fun.
The girl, while punished by her parents, has accused the attackers of hypocrisy, saying "who doesn't do it? Don't you have sex?"
In many countries they both would be considered not minors, as 16-17 years is a perfectly good age of consent, and they could get married against the will of parents, have sex without repercussions, etc.
I understand that child
Sheesh... (Score:3, Funny)
"a college student from IIT Delhi, offered his VCD of the 157-second clip"
157 seconds... sheesh, they really need to learn to take their time and enjoy it
Here's why the eBay Indai CEO is in trouble (Score:4, Informative)
First, read the law. The IT Act 2000 says:
Section 67
===========
Publishing of information which is obscene in electronic form
Whoever publishes or transmits or causes to be published in the electronic form, any material which is lascivious or appeals to the prurient interest or if its effect is such as to tend to deprave and corrupt persons who are likely, having regard to all relevant circumstance, to read see or hear the matter contained or embodied in it, shall be punished on first conviction with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to five years and with fine which may extend to one lakh rupees and in the event of a second or subsequent conviction with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to ten years and also with fine which may extend to two lakh rupees.
79. Network service providers not to be liable in certain cases
For the removal of doubts, it is hereby declared that no person providing an service as a network service provider shall be liable under this Act, rules or regulations made thereunder for any third party information or data made available by him if he proves that the offence or contravention was committed without his knowledge or that he had exercised all due diligence to prevent the commission of such offence or contravention.
Explanation.- For the purposes of this section,-
(a) "network service provider" means an intermediary;
(b) "third party information" means any information dealt with by a network service provider in his capacity as an intermediary;
Baazee(eBay India) published the sale of the child pornographic material and benefitted from such sale by means of commissions earned. Since they benefit from the sale of the material they should be held liable for the material sold through them. Also, it unlike AT&T which does not intend to benefit from the usage of their service for illegal purposes. In this case, allegedly, Baazee did not remove the porn sale item even after being informed, thereby indicating that they had no qualms from benefitting from such sale.
weird indeed ! (Score:3, Insightful)
just how many pr0n producers seek copyright anyway (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't see that DMCA has stemmed the tide of porn in the US. FAIK, the laws against porn in the US have an unintended consequence of reducing access and penalizing copying in ways that DMCA was supposed to provide for legit content and thus the ultimate beneficiary of the laws is the producers and scum-runners who don't have to compete with as much free copies of their "product" as do the musicians and legal movie industry.
Have you seen a smut-peddler's equivalent of MPAA going to judges and slapping subpoena's on file sharers?...maybe they don't need to do that?
that does not make sense (Score:4, Funny)
What a pathetic attempt to use a media event / scandal to promote something unrelated to it! No one in India or elsewhere is worried about copyright here. The boy certainly hasn't made a claim for lost revenues! Whoever the shill is who is claiming that the MMS incident justifies an Indian DMCA ought to be embarrassed to be selling this bunk. There really is only one thing to say to an argument like this:
Re:Knee-jerk? (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Ummm, She Was 16... (Score:5, Insightful)
there are plenty of countries where the age of consent is much much lower.
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ [ageofconsent.com]
Your culture and views are not globally accepted, and that is how it should be.
Parent
Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn (Score:2)
Re:This is CHILD (underage) porn (Score:5, Informative)
Kama has found mentioned in texts as early as the Vedas [pantheon.org]. Initially he was regarded as a creative spirit who welled out of Purusha, the supreme male element. Some parts of the Vedas go even farther and say that Kama himself was the supreme creative being, self-existent and sprung out of the cosmic waters at the beginning of time. In this context he was the supreme god who created everything else and whose first emanation was desire and whose second was the power to achieve that desire.
The Vedas are texts prepared over long lengths of time by diverse persons and the older versions were modified frequently. Thus Kama is found mentioned in many forms, all of them being some aspect of creativity.
Later, as Hindu Mythology progressed and developed into what it is today, Kama became identified with sexual desire, a more frivolous aspect of his creativity. Kama is depicted as a handsome youth who carried a bow entwined with flowers and shot arrows that produced love in their targets - That's your cupid.
The aim of Kama in Indian literature deals with pleasure and love. It is hypothesized that Kama teachings came into existence because of frustration in married life in a patriarchal society where marriages were arranged for convenience, while marriages of love were uncommon. The Kama literature was written in a technical format and is thought to have been written for the people of the higher castes because the social atmosphere of the time permitted very little private time for a husband and wife. Sexual relations were seen as the only allowable token of affection a husband could show his new bride, but at the same time, sex was a source of anxiety for the couple because it was one of the only activities privately shared by the couple and stood as the grounds for which the relationship was based. The lower castes did not have such problems because the men and women interacted on a daily basis, and therefore were able to develop relationships not solely based on sexual performance.
The best known of the Kama literature is Vatsyayana's Kamasutra, which was written around the third century C.E. It is a technical account of the social structure dealing with manners, morals, sexology, and culture in the third century.
This has now been bastardised by a western interpretation, that translates the very connotation of Kama to fucking.
If you've had a girlfriend, I'm sure you'd know there's a difference between sex and making love.
You can read more about Eastern Indian mythologies and beliefs at:
www.deliriumsrealm.com [deliriumsrealm.com]
www.pantheon.org [pantheon.org]
I could write about "Soma" or "Sura", but I'm sure you'd conveniently choose to ignore that, just like you'd this post
Parent
Re:The girl cant complain (Score:3, Informative)
Child porn laws are there to protect children from predators, not punish kids for stupid mistakes they make while they're teenagers. I know several people who did stupid stuff like that, taking "racy" pics when they were in high school, which were probobly technically illegal. Kids on hormones do stupid things like that, putting them in prison will not help them at all.
Re:The girl cant complain (Score:2)
So since in some countries the age of consent is 12 or 13 - does that mean any porn containing 13 year old is perfectly legal anywhere else?
Just because you're country does it - doesn't mean everyone else can.
Otherwise we'd all have the Dutch laws and be smoking canabis happily while watching the hookers in the shop windows advertising.