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Canada Quashes Copyright Tax on MP3 Players
Posted by
michael
on Fri Dec 17, 2004 08:59 AM
from the rated-q-for-quash dept.
from the rated-q-for-quash dept.
Rippy the Gator writes "The Globe and Mail says that consumers may soon be paying less for MP3 players because the Federal Court of Appeal ruled that special copyright levies applied to digital music players are not legal. You might want to keep those receipts if you're giving them as a Christmas Gift."
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The end of the canadian musid industry (Score:5, Funny)
How will canadian artists and record companies stay in business if everybody is going to rip them off and the government isn't going to help them by encouraging consumers to pay taxes to help their brother canadians.
You're all so selfish. I feel like moving south to the U.S.
Re:The end of the canadian musid industry (Score:3, Interesting)
It means that soon the floodstreams of lawsuits against illegal users will flow...
Re:The end of the canadian musid industry (Score:5, Insightful)
No, it was ruled that the levies were illegal because only Parliament (the upper house) has the authority to enact such a levy, not the Copyright Board of Canada. Whether or not the levies make sense or are appropriate is not the issue. This ruling was simply about legal jurisdiction, and I am very sure we have not seen the end of this.
Parent
Re:The end of the canadian musid industry (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, and that ruling suggests it is perfectly legal to "upload" files, which the Copyright Board of Canada previously believed was illegal [cb-cda.gc.ca](see p. 20), but downloading files via P2P has been legal [media-culture.org.au] since at least the 1998 update to the Copyright Act [justice.gc.ca]. Even the Copyright Board of Canada agreed that to be true [cb-cda.gc.ca].
Re:The end of the canadian musid industry (Score:2)
Re:The end of the canadian musid industry (Score:2)
Heh (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Heh (Score:4, Interesting)
I remember when CD-R's were quite suddenly affected by the recording taxes -- did you know that the CRTC (Canadian Radio and Television Commission) imposed a tax on Audio Tapes and VHS Cassettes back in the early 80's?
So many people here just don't know that these fees have been implemented into the sales structure already, and assume that things are just strange in the US.
I do think, though that these taxes are not a terrible idea, as it keeps the recording industry off of our backs for the most part.
Parent
Re:The end of the canadian musid industry (Score:2, Funny)
Re:The end of the canadian music industry (Score:3, Funny)
That's why she was exported to Las Vegas. :-)
Re:The end of the canadian musid industry (Score:3, Funny)
Ok, but you have to take Bryan Adams back.
Hooray! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hooray! (Score:5, Insightful)
It was quite clear that the retail outlets weren't too happy about the levies.
However, the canadian music industry feels they "deserve" more money. Instead of actually, oh I don't know, earning the fucking money they'd rather guilt trip the citizens and pressure the house to bend to their whims.
Tom
Parent
Re:Hooray! (Score:2)
Re:Hooray! (Score:3, Insightful)
Why? When the RIAC(dunno if that's what it's called or not just guessing) wants to start suing their customers, we point to the levy and kindly ask them to stuff it.
The Canadian way is to pay levys/taxes on everything so we don't have to worry about anything. Healthcare, perscription drugs, and social programs are just a few things that are subsidized or free because of levys and taxes.
Re:Hooray! (Score:3, Interesting)
I did buy 10 hard to find tracks from the Canadian iTunes music store when it opened last week - good experience.
Ramble on
Re:Hooray! (Score:3, Insightful)
Also I don't download copyrighted material without permission from the copyright holders.
How dumb, paying fines for something you didn't do (Score:5, Insightful)
Whats next? Why stop at the recording industry.
The government should not be confiscating money from the people to pay to corporations or similar bodies. The government should be protecting the consumer from them, not abetting them.
I'd rather have the RIAA or similar breathing down the necks of people who break the law than having to pay so some schmuch can download stuff without paying for it.
It is NOT the same as paying taxes for medical care or such. That is exactly the line of thinking the RICA/RIAA would love people to believe.
Parent
Re:Interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
Hmm, so if we Americans started charging, say, a burglary tax to everyone we could not ever have to worry about going to jail for burglary. That sounds great, plea bargains before the act is even committed!
Nice comparison.... seriously! You do have a great point here....
On one hand, yes.. copying music is breaking the law, but on the other hand... the levy tax pays the record industry as a whole for their "losses" -- so there is a half-right and half-wrong to the concept of levies.
Ah, I love this Canadian mentally that has them believing that everyone here dies on the street because they are uninsured. Sorry, but it's a huge myth. Moreover, Canada caps its doctor's salaries so most of the really good doctors who specialize in the rare and complicated diseases that save people's lives come to the US because our schools are better and you actually get paid properly for your skills. I'm not going to open the socialism debate, but it certainly has its own set of flaws.
The Canadian Mentality is a feeling that everyone 'deserves' to be given health care... no matter what their circumstance. I agree with this concept, obviously...
What you see from Canadians regarding the thoughts of people dying in the streets in the US, is because of fear -- I admit that the thought of a capitalist approach to health care is frightening to me, and it paints a confusing picture to many of us, as we could not imagine getting a second mortgage for a heart bypass (provided that said person doesn't have coverage, etc, etc)
Doctors in Canada do get severely capped, and mistreated, but that's not speaking for all of them. There are many fantastic surgeons, specialists, etc here who enjoy their work, get compensated well for it.. etc.
You must consider the opposite though, the family of a friend of mine moved up here from Ohio over 30 years ago because the parents wanted to work within our health system, because they felt that American Medicare was too oppressive.
So their are many opinions from different sides, I am not knocking the american system, but I personally do feel more comfortable and loyal to the ways of my own country.
Parent
-1 Clueless (Score:5, Informative)
Egonis (155154) wrote:
> On one hand, yes.. copying music is breaking the law, but on the other hand...
> the levy tax pays the record industry as a whole for their "losses" --
> so there is a half-right and half-wrong to the concept of levies.
Except that in Canada it is legal to copy music for personal use
Not breaking any laws here.
Parent
Re:Interesting (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh thanks for a great laugh!
"Ah, I love this Canadian mentally that has them believing that everyone here dies on the street because they are uninsured."
I didn't say anything about dying in the street. I'm ta
Re:Well (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Hooray! (Score:3, Interesting)
Nope, I buy all of the music I like and can find in the stores here. I may have a few tracks which are unlicensed but not many. I do however have a problem with big companies being able to demand client lists from ISPs,etc. Canada isn't a litigation state and I would like it to stay that way.
"No, they just die waiting for treatment. Been to a hospital lately?"
Yes I have been
Re:Hooray! (Score:3, Insightful)
I understand it's far from perfect and very effective at wasting money. I however hold out hope that because of the current situation our current government some real change will happen this time. A good example is how the current round of funding has strings attached regarding how it is spent. Provincal governments have proven through past deeds they are unable to manage their
Re:Hooray! (Score:3, Interesting)
"I know this has been said before, but I find it hard to understand how the record companies claim millions or billions lost due to piracy. There's no real way to even come close to an actual dollar amount. I'm sure there's some effect, but I have a hard time believing it's as great as the record companies claim."
You're correct. The record companies hire their own analysts and accountants, then there's third party independent research firms who conduct their own analysis, and then there's consumers who
Re:Hooray! (Score:3, Insightful)
The courts are quite atheistic, true. They are _supposed_ to be that way. They are not supposed to consider matters of religion. They are not supposed to care if you are christian, muslim, pagan, whatever. They are _supposed_ to be based on facts and evidence, not faith or belief; i.e., atheist. Th
Re:Hooray! (Score:2)
Re:Hooray! (Score:3, Interesting)
For later referece, Canada is a sovereign country seperate from the U.S., so what we do up here isn't always a reaction to what is happening down south. As a liberal[1] country, we often make decisions based on general fairness to all of our citizens.
[1] - And no I don't mean Liberal, as in the U.S. swear word. I mean it in the classic sense [reference.com].
The law doesn't include MP3 players (Score:5, Informative)
According to the article, the law doesn't include any text about MP3 players, so collecting levies on them isn't allowed. As in many decisions, it has been left to Parliament to make the final choice.
The short of it is that if lobbyists get their way, the levy will be back on MP3 players; all that's needed is for an amendment to the Copyright Act to be drafted and passed.
Re:The law doesn't include MP3 players (Score:2)
Exactly! All they have to do is change the Act to include digital media players (and any possible future devices/media) so that this won't happen again.
Buy
I always wondered... (Score:4, Insightful)
I always thought that this money will never be seen by the artists, and was essentially just a scam.
Re:I always wondered... (Score:4, Informative)
In short: yes, they redistribute the money.
Parent
Levies go to the CPCC (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I always wondered... (Score:2, Informative)
I always thought that this money will never be seen by the artists, and was essentially just a scam
The money is supposed to go to the Canadian artists' collective (whatever it's called). Personally I prefer having the levies. They are what allow us to download music legally here. Now that it seems that the levies are starting to be discarded we'll probably end up with a bunch of lawsuits ala-RIAA up here.
Re:I always wondered... (Score:5, Informative)
Those extra levies on casettes/minidiscs/CD-R and apparently also MP3 players, do they really reach the artists? How do they redistrubute, and on what criteria?
It's interesting that I was just looking into this yesterday. They have a website [www.cpcc.ca] that they've collected $80 million over that past 5 years and distributed $30 million of it. The distributions are based on radio airplay and CD sales. The funds are paid out by groups like SOCAN (an artist organization that handles royalties, etc.).
So, yes, the money is getting out slowly - unfortunately, it's being distributed to Celine Dion and Bryan Adams for the most part.
Parent
Re:I always wondered... (Score:3, Funny)
I used to think that I could listen to and tolerate almost any kind of music. Then I met my wife, and I've since learned that I must have a very narrow view of "good" music. Some of the stuff she listens to makes me want to either vomit or stand in the middle of traffic.
Won't change anything for me... (Score:2, Interesting)
Or there's always Ebay...if the US shipper agrees to indicate "Gift" on the box, you won't pay any taxes whatsoever.
you have to be kidding me (Score:2, Interesting)
just wait until America gets a hold of this idea, the RIAA would love this. just remember, they are not taxes, they are fees
I'm a Canadian (Score:2, Insightful)
Double-edged sword (Score:3, Interesting)
"Erode the stream of revenues to musicians..." (Score:5, Insightful)
Does anyone have any real evidence that musicans actually get this money? Everything I've read about the music industry says they get zero.
How will the industry get paid? (Score:3, Funny)
just a moment here (Score:3, Interesting)
and the canadian court system already informed the CRIA (canadian RIAA) that they can take their ideas to sue and stick them where the sun don't shine, so this isn't gonna change that in a hurry.
Now can I buy from the States? (Score:3, Informative)
Canada will eventually have Levies and Lawsuits. (Score:4, Interesting)
Cue the internet music boom. Buisness as usual, time to go to war and kick in the doors of some file sharers, sue some grannies and single moms when there kids download music. But wait, that dang private copying amendment makes it a grey area.
Unfortunately what will happen next is there will be an attack on the "private copying" portion of the law. It will be changed, eventually we too will have RCMP raiding file downloaders. But of course the levies will stay as well.
The simple fact is we are in a corpocracy. The law is for the corporations. The certainly won't give up the revenue stream from levies but they will loby until they change the laws so they can sue.
Eventually we will have the worst of all possible worlds.
Front page (Score:3, Interesting)
Most articles of this nature usually end up being buried amongst other "lesser" news as technical mumby-jumbo etc etc.
It's really quite nice to see that not only has this stupid tax been repealed, but that the media are giving notice to it. I wish they'd do so more often when they try and slip these things in.
One thing I wonder though, as it mentions "keeping Xmas receipts" - is whether or not consumers can request a rebate on the tax if they've paid it already, as it's been ruled illegitimate.
But then we get back into the usual stupidity:
He said the Copyright Act clearly defines media that legally can be used for private duplication of copyrighted material and MP3 players no longer meet that criteria.
Sorry buddies, while this might mean you can't copy a disc from your friend, it certainly doesn't take away any rights I have to copy my CD to my own iPod. My music, my property, my right to do what I want with it (within my domain).
And now for the REAL confusion... (Score:5, Interesting)
We are allowed to copy music for personal reasons. In exchange, a levy is placed on blank media.
All for the good.
And now, the appeal ruling is that MP3 players are not subject to the levy, because the Act doesn't mention them.
All for the good -- except that the Act may/will be changed to allow the levy.
Most MP3 devices do NOT facilitate the copying of music! If you can show me how to plug media into an iPod (for instance) to allow the iPod to function as a duplicator; or you are willing to GIVE your iPod to someone else, then the iPod should have the levy applied. If the iPod is capable of downloading music without another computer with media, it should be levied.
And here's the problem -- an iPod CAN'T download from the internet, and you WON'T be lending it out, and it CAN'T have media plugged into it.
About the best you can do is a player with a built-in FM radio, and the ability to record to a removed Flash device.
And the levy should be placed on the Flash media.
Not the players.
So, the ruling is good, but the REASON is wrong, because it opens up the possibility of a lobby to change the Copyright Act.
I just hope that when that happens, the politicians see their way clear to a correct ammendment (say, a levy on blank VCR tapes and DVD recordable media, and allowing personal copying of video).
Now, the joker that suggested that is was not OK to use your iPod on Dec 15, is basically full of it. The personal copying provision allows us to copy to ANY media that is commonly used for the storage of music. That would (by design) include your iPod. So suck it up -- that cannot be removed without changing the Copyright Act.
Ratboy.
Re:As a canadian (Score:2)
I mean sure, theoretically if the music industry has a banner year, they'll trickle down the money to the artists with big bonuses... Yea, I think not.
Re:Rebate (Score:2)
take the reciept to f-shop or something?
Re:Stop lying (Score:3, Interesting)