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Blogging Sweeps China

Posted by michael on Sat Nov 27, 2004 08:01 AM
from the they-can-have-dave-winer-if-they-like dept.
Censorship The Internet
An anonymous reader writes "Dissident astro-physicist, Xiao Qiang, director of the China Internet Project at UC Berkeley, interviews Isaac Mao, founder of CNBlog for New Scientist. Asked what is his strategy to expand blogging under China's censorship regime, Mao's response is typically Taoist: 'What is our strategy? We do not have a strategy. But the information flow in the blogosphere has its own Way. The Way is our strategy: personal, fast, connected and networked.'"
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  • China is one of those funny places where they really crack down on the incoming news. Taking a look at some of their latest news, it's hard to reconcile the rosy glow that they have in regards to their country with the actual happenings of their military overseas (submarine in Japanese waters) and communist neighbors (not a word about the imminent overthrow of Kim Jong Illmatic).

    On the other hand, unlike many Western countries *cough cough* that send the secret police to "visit" people who wish to express

    • Oh, really? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 27 2004, @08:43AM (#10930407)
      You say: China allows its dissidents a full voice.

      http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=1964

      Tiananmen dissident tortured to the point of becoming psychotic. He splattered paint on Mao Zedong's portrait.
      Beijing (AsiaNews/SCMP) - An imprisoned Chinese dissident has become psychotic as a result of the torture inflicted upon him, one of the man's friend told Free Asia after fleeing China.

      Yu Dongyue is a former newspaper editor who was arrested during the Tiananmen protests and sentenced to life for "counter-revolutionary propaganda": he had defaced Mao's portrait by splattering it with paint.

      In 2001 Lu Decheng, another dissident, who was jailed for years but released early, saw Yu in Hunan No1 Prison. "He was almost unrecognisable," Mr Lu said who recently escaped the mainland in a perilous three-month journey. "He had a totally dull look in his eyes, and he kept repeating words over and over again as if he were chanting a mantra. He didn't recognise anyone."

      "There was a big scar on the right side of his head. I asked his mother if Yu had ever received a head injury, but she said he never had."

      Mr Lu said that another inmate at the prison told him that Yu had been tied to a power pole and left in the sun for several days.

      "After that, they locked him in solitary confinement for two years and that's when he got like that," Mr Lu stressed. "He has been tortured to the point of psychosis."

      Officials at the Hunan No1 Prison were not available for comment.

      Yu Dongyue, Lu Decheng and Yu Zhijian were school friends from Hunan province and had been active in the pro-democracy movement before travelling to Beijing in May 1989 to join thousands of demonstrators on Tiananmen Square.

      As a result of his involvement, Mr Lu said, his house was demolished, his wife threatened to the point that the authorities forced her to divorce him, and his minibus confiscated, depriving him of the means to earn a living.

      Phone tapping, mail interception and surveillance became a regular part of his life, he added.

      Speaking from an undisclosed location, he said he fled so that he could tell Yu's story. He did not reveal any details about his escape.

    • Re:Garbage no in, but garbage out (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I think you're getting it mixed up

      Komintang = Taiwan

      Communists (if you can still call them that) = China = Gong Zharn Dong (rough translation)

    • On the other hand, unlike many Western countries *cough cough* that send the secret police to "visit" people who wish to express an unpopular opinion,...

      Er, examples?

      I'm not calling BS, but it would be nice to know if you've got examples of "many" Western countries sending "secret police" to "visit" those who only "wish" to express unpopular opinions.
    • They of course drown out the voices with their own party-led voices proclaiming the benefits of the Komintang .

      You're thinking of China(1), not China(2).

      1. China, Republic of
      2. China, People's Republic of

      • Those pictures from Abu Ghraib weren't rosy. NBC's footage of a marine point-blank executing a wounded, unarmed Iraqi weren't rosy.

        It's hard to know how much of the full picture we are getting, but honestly, yes, I think we're getting more than most people in other times and other places.

        • Re:Garbage no in, but garbage out (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward
          You haven't been to Europe, have you? The difference in coverage is drastic.

          You don't see any Americans killed or wounded (the latter only after they're safe, cleaned up and "wanting to go back there, sir" even without their legs).

          You don't see many Iraqis killed or wounded, save the occasional wounded child from an insurgent bomb.

          Usually either of these happens only if the story is 'big' like the one time a helicopter fired on civilians and got on tape (or the torture). Those films, too, are edited.
        • From several first hand accounts, the media rarly gets any of the details right even in local news stories. They simply sensationalize the few facts they have to make it seem like they know. I'm sure anyone who has had a friend/family member in the news will understands how wrong the stories are. Journalists are Attention whore arts majors.
      • There are those of us who have military training who have an idea what's going on over there. The combat is messy, but having taken Fallujah in street fighting, the Coalition has denied the insurgents a major base city.

        One thing I've noticed that is significant: al-Jazeera has quieted down. They aren't able to get the communiques from the insurgents as well as they did in the past.

        Overall, it looks as if the fighting is going well for the Coalition, and the Tet offensive of THIS war was done BY the Mari

  • Blogs (Score:4, Funny)

    by Claire-plus-plus (786407) on Saturday November 27 2004, @08:07AM (#10930320) Journal
    The sound of one hand blogging

  • Reminds me.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by modifried (605582) on Saturday November 27 2004, @08:08AM (#10930321) Homepage
    .. of a Douglas Adams quote:

    He believed in a door. He must find that door. The door was the way to... to...
    The Door was The Way.
    Good.
    Capital letters were always the best way of dealing with things you didn't have a good answer to.

  • What the hell? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by downbad (793562) on Saturday November 27 2004, @08:15AM (#10930337)
    What is our strategy? We do not have a strategy.

    ...
    The Way is our strategy: personal, fast, connected and networked.
    Right.

  • Sounds (Score:5, Funny)

    by fozzmeister (160968) on Saturday November 27 2004, @08:24AM (#10930351)
    Sounds like an IBM ad!

  • Excellent... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Turn-X Alphonse (789240) on Saturday November 27 2004, @08:25AM (#10930355) Journal
    Tomorrows news.

    China blocks all blog sites.

  • Astounding (Score:5, Funny)

    by nagora (177841) on Saturday November 27 2004, @08:28AM (#10930364)
    China's bloggers look like they may actually be even more pretentious and boring than their western counterparts. I didn't think it possible.

    TWW

    • Yeah, that Tao quote is as pretentious as it gets. Of course there are plans and strategies, but speaking like a character out of an RPG game makes for much better media soundbites.
    • Hey, now. Give us a chance. This whole interweb is still catching on in some of our best parts like the deep south and the plain states. Couple more months, and we'll show YOU who is the most arrogant, pretentious, ill-informed isolationists on the planet. We can do better, we PROMISE. Maybe more websites about our pet cats?

      Sincerererely,
      America's Web Commubity
  • "The Way is our strategy: personal, fast, connected and networked.'"

    I think they forgot "...and censored, too."

  • Sex (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Claire-plus-plus (786407) on Saturday November 27 2004, @08:31AM (#10930375) Journal
    It is interesting that once again sex became the big reason many people have jumped on to a new technology. As that article said, blogging got a big boost from a sex blog, the sex increased visibility for the blog server and introduced many new users to blogging. It just seems to be a pity to me that people can't find something better than sex to get people to assert their collective voice.

    • Re:Sex (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Why?

      Sex is THE fundamental drive of all life on earth. Why would it surprise you to find it at the top of most human agendas?
    • I've heard that Godiva Chocolate is better than sex. Maybe you could try that.
    • While I also wish there were more intellectual pursuits that brought people together in this manner, I think that it's more a means. The manner they are gratifying their carnal desires seem to at least not be destructive and hopefully once they are taking part in this communication medium, they will be able to pursue avenues of deeper thought. :)

        • Re:Um... (Score:2, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward
          Haha. but seriously...

          I got up this morning and took a shit so that I could survive until the next time I had sex.

          I took the dog out because owning another creature raises the possibility of having sex with another interested human.

          I made blueberry muffins because eating is fundamental to survival, and attracting the opposite sex with a special skill like cooking is important to having sex.

          I checked my email in order to 1) answer emails from friends who may introduce me to future sex partners, and 2) m

        • sex is the real reason behind any action

          So very true...

          • I got up this morning and took a shit SEX!
          • Took the dog out SEX!
          • Made blueberry muffins SEX!
          • Checked my email V1AGRA!
          • Updated some DNS zones SEX!
          • Had a coffee SEX!
          • Brush teeth SEX!
          • Check forum I moderate SEX!
          • Spend rest of day idling on IRC and browsing /. SEX!

          I think most things can be linked to sex, but maybe not directly. How about my schedule this morning:

          • Woke up: have to be awake to procreate, because I am male.
          • Brushed teeth: my wife hates

  • Where are the Iraqi blogs (Score:3, Interesting)

    by aggles (775392) * on Saturday November 27 2004, @08:49AM (#10930424)
    Good for the Chinese. Courage to communicate in spite of government's attitude is a positive sign from a country coming out of the dark ages. Now, how about some Iraqi blogs? For all the funds being pumped in there, one would think the Iraqis would have something to say. I'm tired of hearing everything about what is really happening there, third hand. Just so they use a language that can be translated by services such as http://www.worldlingo.com/

    • Re:Where are the Iraqi blogs (Score:5, Informative)

      by G-Man (79561) on Saturday November 27 2004, @10:45AM (#10930985)
      How about just Googling 'Iraqi blogs'? Too general for you? Try 'Healing Iraq', 'Iraq the Model', 'Riverbend', 'Salam Pax'.

      No, I'm not giving you the URLs. Do at least a little work. Sheesh. These people have been blogging for over a year and a half - Salam Pax was blogging when Saddam was still in power. Sorry if I come across as caustic, but your question and the response by the ACs above show that people haven't made the merest attempt to find out for themselves. Anyone who really cared could find Iraqi blogs over a year ago.
      • Don't blame him; there's just not enough information about these blogs in mainstream media sources -- and in spite of how long the internet has been available, most of us still get most of our information from mainstream sources. I was at a panel about blogging and the war on terrorism at an academic conference and there was one panelist writing about the "dear_raed" blog. He had interesting things to say about it, but he basically seemed to think that Pax was the only Iraqi blogger and that he stopped in

  • The Tao of business (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I wish I could get away with that philosophy in business ...

    Venture Capitalists: So, tell us, why should we give you seed money? What's your detailed corporate strategy?
    Me: We don't have a strategy. The company has its own Way. The Way is our strategy.
    Venture Capitalists: Well, fair enough. Sounds good to us! Here's $300 million.

    Somehow I'm a little skeptical of the "meh, it'll all work out by itself in the end" style of planning ...

    • because you haven't been raised to see that when you do not put your own expectations on things, and just do them, you see the best ways to do things easier. Their strategy is to do and adapt to what is instead of planning for what they expect and having it fall to shit when things happen they didn't expect, like you often see in day to day life here in the West.

      There are ups and downs to both approaches. But they do both work, in their way.
        • Wow, you picked up that there are pluses and minuses, just like I said, congratulations genius.

          sometimes you have to sit down and plan things out. sometimes you don't. If you're just trying to connect people or start a "scene", you may not have to make as many plans as you might have to in order to launch tons of metal and explosive fuel into space, no?

          Sometimes the very act of planning limits your ability to react. When was the last time you got mad at someone who didn't deserve it? Those are the tim
        • Like there is nothing in between?

          Don't bother getting anecdotal. We could sit here for a lifetime tossing out counter examples.

          Planning is better than slapping things together, if you have to do something now, or by next monday. If you have all the time you need to do something, you can dispense with pressure and rigid thinking and simply explore your subject calmly, peacefully, and powerfully.

          If you don't know what I'm talking about, then fine, it may not make sense to you.
    • Actually, the Art of War was huge in 80s on Wall Street for business and investment strategy.

      Somehow I'm a little skeptical of the "meh, it'll all work out by itself in the end" style of planning ...

      That's what happens when you make straw men. One of the metaphors that is used in the book to describe the method is "rolling a boulder down a hill." What this means is employing a minimum of effort by making use of the natural features of your environment. Designing strategies that ignore or flaunt those fe
        • Yes, I've read the Art of War. Slinging around vague analogies to rivers does not a convincing argument make.

          They aren't really my analogies, but I apologize that they aren't convincing to you. But may I add that your disdainful dismissal of my comments is made evident by your yawning? I find this inappropriate for reasoned discussion.

          Understanding the market, and adapting to it, is the whole basis of a smart business plan.

          But now, you seem to be agreeing with me.

          Nobody said anything about "proceed

  • Great! (Score:3, Funny)

    by JanneM (7445) on Saturday November 27 2004, @10:04AM (#10930765) Homepage
    Blogging Sweeps China

    Great that those bloggers are lending a hand! With the economic expansion and lack of time and all, the dust has really been piling up in the corners lately.

  • Coming Soon.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by inkdesign (7389) on Saturday November 27 2004, @11:23AM (#10931194)
    Chinese Blogger Executed After Testicle Electrocution.
  • There are a lot of cats in China.
    • More spam comes from the US than from China or South Korea. It just happens that there are more servers that allow spam in China.

      So how would you like to write an apology to 1billion+ people? Perhaps a mass email?
      • So how would you like to write an apology to 1billion+ people? Perhaps a mass email?

        They deserve nothing. As compared to administrators in the US and Canada that i've had to deal with, admin types in China/Korea/Taiwan have been useless when dealing with spam.

        In fact, I don't think i've ever recieved a single piece of return communication when trying to resolve an unsolicited-mail problem with someone in those areas - the crap mail just keeps coming, and I finally had to go ahead and summarily reject or
    • it's about protecting citizens from illegal scams.
      So Tianneman Square was just about protecting Chinese from spammers and scammers? Alrighty then.

        • Now whats better for poor peasant kids? Hoping to find a spinning wheel in your stomach so you can ascend to heaven, or going to school to learn some skills so they can join the world economy?


          Better for poor peasant kids? How about growing up in a society where one can believe in or do whatever one wants so long as it doesn't harm someone else?

          • How about growing up in a society where one can believe in or do whatever one wants so long as it doesn't harm someone else?

            Be careful my friend. One is just as free to choose ignorance and self limitation as one is of choosing happiness and prosperity. The thing about Falun Gong is that it takes obsolete ideas that are often detramental to one's well-being and guilding it over with a thin layer of spirituality and metaphysics. As a health regiment, practitioners have more often than not forgone legitima

            • Meanwhile, doctors in hospitals all over the nation are being forced to deal with the expensive and often fatal late stages of easily treatable ailment. Would *you* be willing to subsidize such religious freedom?

              In that case I'd propose those individuals be denied care unless they can pay for it themselves. I'd have no problem with tax money being spent on educating people about the possible consequenses of their actions (just like anti-smoking commercials). People should be free to live their lives as

    • Moderation on parent is unfair. The source of the Falun Gong movement is a crackpot by any definition. According to a bbc article [bbc.co.uk]:

      "Some of Mr Li's pronouncements are certainly unconventional, some would say just plain strange. He believes aliens walk the Earth and he has reportedly said he can walk through walls and make himself invisible. Mr Li says that he is a being from from a higher level who has come to help humankind from the destruction it could face as the result of rampant evil. "

      Similar

      • By now, we are jaded by bizzare ideas like this. But most chinese are still relatively naive about such things, and so they get caught up in the frenzy.

        China had groups that got into these "bizarre ideas" long before Western cynicism. A recent example (by Chinese standards) that Westerners might remember was the Boxer Rebellion, very similar to the Falun Gong, which occured about a hundred years ago.

        I wouldn't write the Falun Gongs off as unsophisticated rubes just yet. There's a reason why the Beijing

        • The Boxers were *nothing* like the Falun Gong of today. The boxers, right from the beginning, had political motives. Primarily though, they were anti-foreigners rather than anti-government and were not rebel in the strictest sense of the world. But that is besides the point. It seems to me such a pairing compares apples to oranges. The Boxers incident may be recent relative to the entire history of Chinese culture, but in terms of direct influence (and by this I mean the continuity of cultural consciou

    • Re:Pajamahadeen (Score:4, Insightful)

      by geeksgirl (745700) on Saturday November 27 2004, @11:48AM (#10931338) Homepage

      Shouldn't you be asking if mainstream media is accurate and trustworthy, assuming you're being sincere and not sarcastic of course?.

      To answer your sincere question then, bloggers as a whole may not be accurate and trustworthy - can you really trust someone you barely know, except through the thoughts they choose to post online?

      However, Bloggers do tell you about their lives, as they live it, about the things that happen in their country and how it affects them. So while blogs may lack decent grammar and spelling, it is at least, to me, a more realistic view of the average person's situation. (Note: this does not apply to the ravings of bored teenage girls with smiley addictions! - of which there are way too many in the blogosphere)

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