Electronic Arts Facing Possible Class Action Lawsuit

As a follow-up to yesterday's story about a frustrated EA employee's spouse, several readers wrote in to report that EA is now facing a possible class action lawsuit from disgruntled employees. Besides the Gamespot coverage, Kotaku has a discussion of it as well. To add to the "frustrated EA worker" momentum, a former employee named Joe Straitiff has posted about his experiences as well. From his post: "So I'm posting under my real name -- you have to stand up to this type of thing or it will continue. And every company will become EA so that can compete... Remember, you can't spell ExploitAtion without EA."

Former EA Employees?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't that like, the whole gaming industry?

Re:Former EA Employees?

[flibuste]

It's like that in the WHOLE industry...Those 2 blogs entries sound so familiar. To sum up:

• No overtime paid
• Abnoxious hours
• Stressed-out teams
• Incompetence in management
• Conflicts of interest
• HR non-sense

Re:Former EA Employees?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've said it once, and I'll say it again:

The technology sector is ripe for unionization.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[Jim_Maryland]

The technology sector is ripe for unionization.

Now why would I want to get my pay based on seniority rather than performance? I have several family members (father included) in construction unions and I don't see how the benefits would help in the technology sector. If anything, I'd see unionization as a sure way to move jobs out of the country even faster.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[arivanov]

Well... It depends what are we talking about. People keep talking about the IT industry and unions without actually realizing that the differences in the industry are vast. Unions in a high level design department in a Telco - give me a break, unions in an architecture group in a software house - once again give me a break, unions in a "Mr Wolf" pulp fiction style consultancy - you gotta be kidding. Unions in a sweatshop cubicle XP farm where people are cranking out dull code and being payed by the hour - definitely.
Actually, it is the same in the constuction industry - how many architects, interior designers or planners are unionized? Dunno about US, but here - about 0.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[Jim_Maryland]

I realize that unions have benefited workers in the past and do help some industries (particularly ones where the working conditions are physically dangerous and implimenting safety protocols will cost money to the company). I disagree though about "Unions in a sweatshop cubicle XP farm where people are cranking out dull code and being payed by the hour - definitely." being one of the appropriate places to have a union though.

(Maybe my understanding of unions is a bit biased so please forgive me, and feel free to point out, if I am mistaken on the details.)

Don't unions collectively bargain for pay rates? Doesn't that ensure that every employee at a position category will receive the same pay no matter how well/poorly they perform? This doesn't exactly encourage people to put forth their best effort.

Unions protect the employees by making employee termination much more difficult to the employer. While the advantages are probably pretty obvious, this puts additional burden on the employer to build a case against an employee for termination if the employee truly deserves termination? In extreme cases, this could lead the employer to additional risk if the employee is endangering people or projects.

Unions typically prohibit companies from hiring non-union employees. If you as a software programmer want to work for company X, you can only do so by joining the union, even if you don't want to. Union's will look at any attempts to hire a non-union employee as "stealing a job" from a union worker.

Unions see overtime as potential for another worker rather than an opportunity for current union members to pick up additional income. (This is the case with my father, a plumber, who made more money as a non-union plumber due to being able to work overtime. When his shop was unionized, his annual income went from about $54K to $32K. Sure, he didn't have to work any overtime, but now he can't possibly make enough money to maintain his lifestyle. As pointed out above, he can't potentially make any more money due to the union setting the rate.)

I guess if I were an underachiever, I'd probably welcome a union. For what it's worth, I've worked places (construction - plumbing and concrete finishing and geospatial data conversion shops) where at the time I probably would have welcomed a union, but looking back, I believe it would have been a mistake. If the jobs were unionized, I might have made a little more money (of course paying a bit of that back to the union), but I might not have been as driven to find better opportunities.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[Analogy Man]

Unions can reflect the personality of the employees they represent. I used to be a member of SPEAA (?sp?) for aerospace engineers and techs. In the actual aero organization the educational split was about 10%PhD,30%MS,40%BS,20%associates degrees. I had favorable impression of the organization and compensation was performance/market based. The Union negotiated the size of the raise pool, medical coverage, retention (yes they acknowledged the cyclic nature of the industry).

If you were unlucky enough to have a conflict with a particular manager or escallated issues you had recourse and representation.

Unions stagnate and die when they take the dues of the many to force a company to keep the worst. A union is a good thing when they keep a company honest and are there to remind them that abuse of the hearts, minds and souls of the company is not a good long term business model.

It's not REALLY a zero-sum game

[feepcreature]

Your understanding of unions is "a bit biased". It's like a caricature of unions in pre-thatcher Britain. Maybe it IS like that in the US - I wouldn't know. Out here there are good unions and bad ones. Good ones work with the company, in enlightened self interest. Just like good management works with their staff, in enlightened self-interest, in fact.

The Union's job is essentially to stop management from putting a [possibly illusory] chance of short term profit ahead of the longer term interest of the employees (and the company as a whole).

Don't unions collectively bargain for pay rates? Doesn't that ensure that every employee at a position category will receive the same pay no matter how well/poorly they perform?

Yes and no, respectively.

A union may ask for any deal that is in the interests of the membership as a whole - and many unions happily work with systems that reward performance. They may demand that the systems be fair (and avoid victimisation), or that the overall increases be good, or that no employee be too badly disadvantaged. But that's quite compatible with rewarding excellence.

Unions protect the employees by making employee termination much more difficult to the employer. While the advantages are probably pretty obvious, this puts additional burden on the employer to build a case against an employee for termination if the employee truly deserves termination?

Good unions won't have a problem with fair termination of bad employees. On the other hand, they may assist all their members with any appeals or due process there may be. At the end of the day, a fair process is in everyone's interest (unless you're the bad employee).

Unions typically prohibit companies from hiring non-union employees...

In the UK that's called a "Closed Shop" and it's illegal - one of the more enlightened reforms of the Thatcher era. Unions cope just fine. A good union (especially if the employer's management is moderate to poor) will be able to attract members on its merits.

Unions see overtime as potential for another worker rather than an opportunity for current union members to pick up additional income.

Quite the reverse in some cases - I know of unions that guard their members' overtime a little too zealously.

I guess if I were an underachiever, I'd probably welcome a union.

I think you miss the value of a union - at its best it provides balance, and promotes enlightened self interest and good management. Industrial relations are not supposed to be a zero-sum game!

Personally, I didn't used to be a member of our union - but I joined because I thought it was doing a pretty good job.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[Thangodin]

The solution lies somewhere in the middle: labour involvement in management. The "Union Rep" is actually a member of upper management, how communicates the state of the company accurately to the employees, and carries grievances right to the upper levels of management, and the Board of Directors. Lack of involvement breeds apathy. Eventually you have a business staffed by noobs who don't know what the fuck they are doing, or by burned out veterans who do but couldn't care less. Any company who manages the balance between employee and company needs will do better than EA. The problem is, there were almost none out there in the early days of game development. I worked for one of the oldest game companies in the world before they went down, and it was obvious that they were even more incompetent than EA. The early companies crunched and gouged their people to make their start, and kept on doing it. Others just didn't have the urge to build an empire like EA. Now EA is too big to break easily, and it uses that clout to break up better companies before they can become large enough to be a threat.

Unfortunately, you can hear this same tune in virtually every industry now. Wal-Mart, for example, will open a store in a neighborhood and slash prices to the point that even they don't make any money on it. Once all the local retailers have gone bankrupt, they close the store, having a proviso on the original lease that the space cannot be rented out for retail purposes for a decade or two. The huge box stands empty (there is almost nothing else you can do with it), the contractor who built it loses his shirt, everyone is forced to go to the Wal-Mart across town, which now sells its goods at regular or inflated prices, because it no longer has any competition. And thousands of people are thrown out of work--or forced to work at Wal-Mart for low pay, because the job situation is so desparate. So the behaviour of a company like EA should come as no surprise--it amounts to pretty much the same thing.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[peg0cjs]

Neither does the current system, where brownnoses and incompetent fools get the raises, while good programmers with poor social skills get the shaft. Plus, programmers who are paid well enough WILL produce their best code out of sheer pride (or peer pressure).

I love this example. At what point in life did social skills become irrelevant? It's a reality that appearance & how well you play with others plays just as large a role as the quality of your work; accept it.

I'm sure there are remote examples of coders there working in closets pumping out reams of code built to specs provided by some abstract concept called a "customer", but I have yet to see it. I have worked in pure development shops, consultancy companies, product companies, oil & gas, government, etc, etc, and I have yet to see a SINGLE example of a coder sitting in a basement all day long.

Tell me how can a programmer "endanger people or projects".

There are lots of ways a coder can "endanger a project". Bad code = broken product that people don't buy or extra cycles spent debugging. As for endangering people, that will depend on the nature of the project. Of course, it is quite possible that the code may do something unexpected. I worked on one system that tracked every life (pets included) in a 50 km vicinity of a sour gas well in case of a break out. Tell me that a failure of that system wouldn't endanger lives (for those that don't know, a sour gas well means that there's sulfur in the gas, usually in the form of H2S, highly toxic in even small amounts).

This would be a good point... except it's crap. No programmer gets extra hours anyway.

My last job was as a Senior Consultant for one of the largest IT consultants in north america (15,000 plus consultants), and trust me, extra hours came with the territory (especially billable hours). But there was always a tradeoff. It was never in straight pay, but I was rewarded after a project was delivered, be it a token gift or extra time off or bonus package. If you do great work for a company, don't be afraid to stand up for yourself. 'No' is not a swear word if you phrase it properly.

I realize that there are complete morons out there, and I have encountered the stupid '9:00 - 5:00 presence even if you were up to 3:00 am fixing a problem' policy. From the article it sounds like this guy hit an extreme example of this, but the truth is, we've gotta stop being cows. If you are in the top 10% of your company, you should have an easy job of proving your worth to the company, and you have to exact some career management on your hugher-ups. Don't assume that your supervisor or boss is looking out for you. They're looking out for the company ('Ask yourself: is this good for the company?') because that is their job requirement. But profits and employee happiness are not mutually exclusive, and we, collectively, have to present this to management in a positive way.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[DM9290]

Now why would I want to get my pay based on seniority rather than performance? I have several family members (father included) in construction unions and I don't see how the benefits would help in the technology sector. If anything, I'd see unionization as a sure way to move jobs out of the country even faster.

How do you measure "performance"?

As for Unionization moving jobs out of the country.

Environmental safety standards = sure way to move jobs out of the country.

Workplace safety standards = sure way to move jobs out of the country.

human (and worker) rights = sure way to move jobs out of the country.

abolishing child labour = sure way to move jobs out of the country.

Property Taxes = sure way to move jobs out of the country.

Corporate taxes = sure way to move job out of the country.

Public healthcare = sure way to move jobs out of the country.

paid lunchtime and bathroom breaks = sure way to move jobs out of the country.

minimum living wage = sure way to move jobs out of the country.

compensation for workplace injuries = sure way to move jobs out of the country.

What can we do to insure jobs stay in the country?

Encourage or compell all nations in the world to have the same (or higher) standards as America.

Dropping the standards locally is what corporations would like because corporations have no interests in human life or happiness.

Don't believe the hype. American consumers still have a lot of spending power. Once that spending power is gone, then absolutely nothing except dropping all standards will ever get jobs back into the country. Prior to that time, you can keep jobs in country by imposing tarrifs on all countries which fail to live up to "american standards" of decency and employee/human rights and environmental protection. Corporations still want to sell stuff to Americans. And if necessary they will hold their noses and manufacture things here if that is the most profitable way to do business here.

If china was to suddenly comply with all american standards including free speech, labour unions, workplace safety conditions and human rights. Do you think it would be so cheap to do business in china?
For that matter.... do you think so many people would flee china and risk their lives packing themselves into shipping containers for the dream of living as an illegal alien in the USA.

Tarrifs on china and other countries which do not meet American human rights and environmental standards will have the effect of raising the standards abroad until corporations will have no where left to exploit labour or the environment unfairly. And then it would not seem so difficult to compete.

We are competing against the total exploitation of human life. How can you compete against that? Will you sacrifice your life and the lives of your family just so that your boss (for those of you who work for an outsourcing company) can make more profit?

Throwing away the right to unionize isn't going to stop outsourcing. Only a relative equalization of standards between nations. You can equalize it high, or equalize it low. Don't let the corporations choose.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[zymurgyboy]

Fine. You can work for the rest of us who would rather continue seeing IT go the way of a new profession.

Don't get me wrong, unions on the whole have done a lot to improve everyone's working lives that could never have happened without them. However, do you aspire to information work that is akin to factory work, or construction, or truck driving? That's what an IT workers' union will turn our budding profession into.

I personally want to see our gig rise to the level of doctor, lawyer, professor, etc. I want to do meaningful, creative work. Not cookie-cutter, templatized, stoop-labor.

Game Development Sweatshops

[MooseByte]

"If you want to earn the big bucks be prepared to pay the price."

Except that the game dev industry doesn't really pay all that well relative to other software development jobs. Because everyone and their cousin wants to develop games. They'll burn you out like a backyard BBQ because they know they can just replace you.

And all the while they dangle the high salaries of the Top Tier Talent as the crack-laced carrot to keep you slaving away.

You'll find exceptions, but reality is quite ugly.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[David_W]

This is every "exempt" salary position in corporate America. Get over it.

And this attitude is the problem in a nutshell... how do you expect things to get any better if the answer is always "it's like this everywhere, get over it?" Change has to start somewhere. If you don't like your working conditions then you should do every reasonable thing in your power to fix them.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[the_mad_poster]

You must be a manager. Nobody else could possibly have posted something as stupid as "get over it". Here's a better idea: walk the entire team right the fuck out halfway through the project and watch the idiots in upper management scramble like a bunch of helpless, headless chickens to try and replace the people who's backs they break to make their $3000 mortgage payments in between day time trips to the golf course and porking their secretaries on the Italian leather sofa in the office they're in for 5% of the week.

The country doesn't need white collar workers to "get over it", it needs workers to stand up and tell managers to go piss up a rope. Remember people: management doesn't actually DO anything. No company can run with only management because they don't actually do any of the work. If enough people get up and walk out at once, they're screwed.

Mod parent way the fuck up

[saintp]

Curses! I used all my mod points yesterday!

Somehow, I find it amazing that on a site chock-full of libertarians and liberal weenies, unionization comes up so infrequently. I know striking is difficult, but software development is a field in which it is uniquely effective: it's imperative that the same people finish a project who started it, or you waste months showing the new team the ropes. You can't just hire a bunch of scabs to stamp out code like it's steel.

Re:Mod parent way the fuck up

[Overzeetop]

You've missed the bargaining conditions. Nobody wants a raise. They want a 40 (or 50 or 60) hour workweek.

I left my job as a corporate drone when I realized that, no matter what I told the management, the schedules would always come back too short for the hours requried to do the job. They loved to promise the customer the world, and just figured we could put in the extra 15-20 hours a week to make it happen.

Bullshit. My time with my family is worth more than that. So I quit my job and hung our a shingle. It took a year to really turn a profit, but I'm swamped now. I've got the hours I want, and then some. If I want to work the extra dozen hours one week, I can, and I make an extra grand in the process. If I don't, I tell the client a realistic completion date, and they either wait or they find another engineer.

I'm moving to a new office in a month or two, and I'll be less than a mile from home. I help get my daughter ready for school in the morning, and I'm home for dinner and to tuck her in every night. Weekends are for playing. My blood pressure has dropped 15 points, and I rarely have stress headaches. Oh, and I'll make more this year than I made year-before last at my former company.

(I should add that my boss doesn't care if I take an hour on a Friday afternoon to read slashdot ;-)

Re:Former EA Employees?

[GoChickenFat]

"walk the entire team right the fuck out halfway "

That's a great idea if everyone will do it...problem is there will always be someone who will stay behind and in this day there are plenty of people waiting in line to take over. I've seen contracted developers try this only to find themselves looking for another contract.

"No company can run with only management because they don't actually do any of the work."

I realize slashdot folks spend more time bashing management then supporting but this is a rediculous statement. Of course companies cannot run with only management but to think management doesn't do any work is completely wrong. Projects don't get funded or selected without management. Conflicts don't get handled, people don't get hired and fired, organizations don't get formed, good teams don't get put together, training programs don't get established, status reports don't get handled...I could go on... the point is, unless you have been a member of management you cannont know the struggles that go on. Just keep in mind that everyone thinks their job is the hardest and most important.

btw...I agree with the "over worked" premise that the former EA employees have presented. The problem is that this is a society issue and not one that is specific to EA. I've been studying the "over worked American" for a couple years and I can tell you that the issue is not exclusive to the IT or gaming industries. As long as we Americans strive to live in excess we will work in excess.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[CarrionBird]

You dont have to be a marxist or other kind of wingnut to realize that we have grown a instant gratification addicted generation. The TV tell them what they want and they go buy it. Now the online media does the same thing faster.

Buy more! Don't worry about the cost, just use this card! Don't worry about those credit card bills, just refinance your house! Don't worry about that mortgage payment, just work more! The 50" plasma screen is worth it! Trust us! ...and so on...

Our standard of living has increased, but at what cost? We can get dvd players for $30, but you have to buy a new one every six months. Would it possibly be better to pay twice or three times that but have something that lasts? What about the jobs that had to be sent overseas to make that player so cheap? Would we be better off paying a little more yet having fewer unemployed?

Hard to say, there's lot of variables, but it seems to me that noone in any kind of position of power is even looking at these questions. Everyone is stuck in short term thinking.

Gotta get the numbers up for the next quarterly report, worry about the long term later. Problem is, later never comes. There's always another market cycle to optimise.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[Shakrai]

None of this "I'm late because of my sick daughter" crap

Yeah because clearly the company that you work for is more important then your children. If my boss ever gives me shit about showing up late or leaving early because of a sick child I'll hand in my resignation on the spot. Your family is a million times more important then your company.

What kind of hours do you suppose the executives work? Do you think they'd be doing this if they had to pay these people overtime? If I was working for EA I'd start talking to local union reps. See how fast they change their ways when they are threatened with unionization.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[Taco John]

You're assuming that they want to unionize. While these working conditions sound horrible, and as this story develops I'm sure that it will become clear that these are not isolated incidents, there is a certain cost to unionization. I would say that game developers are in a similar situation to graduate students. Poor working conditions with inadequate (grossly inadequate for grad students) compensation. Also, grad students are only employed by the university for 2-3 years. With a transient workforce l

Re:Former EA Employees?

[rah1420]

My grand-dad was a railroad telegrapher. He once told the supervisor that he was going to take the afternoon off and go fishing. His supervisor said "Dick, I'd appreciate it if you ASKED me if you can take the afternoon off."

My grand-dad looked at him witheringly. "I will NEVER ask you if I can leave work. I may, however, ask you if I can come back..."

Re:Former EA Employees?

[Tim C]

If my boss ever gives me shit about showing up late or leaving early because of a sick child I'll hand in my resignation on the spot. Your family is a million times more important then your company.

That's pretty-much my attitude in a nutshell. My first duty is always to my family. In the event of my employer and my family simultaneously having equal need of me, my family wins.

I'm lucky in that that view is pretty-much shared by everyone I work with. That's not to say that we don't work long, hard hours sometimes - of course we do. When neccesary I will work through the night to get someting done in time. I've put in a 24 hour shift or two in the past to get the project finished in time for a deadline, and I'm not the only one.

My dedication to the project, if perhaps not the company, cannot be questioned. Yet I won't think twice before coming in late or working from home if my daughter or girlfriend need me more than the company does.

What kind of hours do you suppose the executives work?

To an extent, that's immaterial. While I guess I'd object less to working stupid hours if I knew that everyone, all the way to the very top, were doing it, at the same time that's not enough justification for making me do so. I have a young daughter, who misses me enough as it is without making me work 70+ hour weeks. It's tolerable, when necessary, for the short term, and especially if it's actually going to be paid. If it starts becoming expected too frequently, then something would have to change, whether that be conditions at the company, or the company I was employed by.

Life's too short to spend it all working to make someone else richer, with little or no benefit to you and your family.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[bludstone]

Thats okay. But remember, its us without kids that are picking up your slack. YOU OWE US.

Make it up to us. Please.

It is very difficult to be compassionate when, 3 days out of the week, I'm covering for someone who has to leave early because of their kid.

In short, be appreciative, buy us a lunch, offer to pick up some of our work. PLEASE.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[TykeClone]

Remember that when (and if!) you're drawing social security - it will be the kids of others that are paying your freight then.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[NeoSkandranon]

No, I'm sorry, leaving your sick daughter at home by herself for a few hours while mom goes to get groceries is *not* putting your family first.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[jinxidoru]

So, going to work on time and doing your job is really putting your family first by putting a roof over their heads and food on the table.

And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man on the moon
When you comin' home dad?
I don't know when, but we'll get together then son
You know we'll have a good time then

Re:Former EA Employees?

[idontgno]

I totally agree with you, but you have to think of it the other way, too.

In logic, this is called a "false dilemma [datanation.com]". In case you're wondering, it's a logical fallacy.

No, going to work to feed your family and staying at home to take care of them aren't inherently contradictory. Sane employers will accept the minor temporary hit to productivity, knowing that their ROI is an employee who's actually productive when he/she comes back. Trust me, sitting there at your desk worrying whether the kid is OK only fulfills the "sitting at the desk" portion of what management pretends is "productivity".

Re:Former EA Employees?

[Dr Caleb]

None of this "I'm late because of my sick daughter" crap.

One day, you and people like you are going to have to decide if all you want to be is a consumer; Is everything you do with the focus of earning money to buy things. Or, are you going to stop along the road and enjoy things like the innocence in your childs eyes.

You decide, work like the Japanese and die an early death from the stress, or live and love longer and enjoy yourself along the way.

Re:Former EA Employees?

[rogueuk]

I thought the japanese had the highest life expectancy.

This [who.int] says they are #1 on the list while the US is #24...

parent is dead right

[IndependentVik]

It's true, American work more hours [accuracy.org] and get less vacation time than other industrialized nation--two weeks less than the Japanese.

A non-scientific analysis of how fewer work hours might not be as bad for productivity as we thought can be found here [itotd.com]. (note: this link is only authoritative for those who view interesting thing of the day as having authority).

get Sega ESPN sports games

[superpulpsicle]

Just don't buy EA sports games. They have a marketing lock on the video game industries. Their sports games overall don't compared to Sega ESPN games in cost or quality. The only reason why Madden is a success is the 15+ years of football game monopoly. They are slipping away every year.

EA's best games coame from small-mid size company acquisitions. Electronic Arts themselves are just martketers. Like SCO is to lawyers. The real product comes some where else, and the company is just abusing the hell out of all the developers with their over-achieving marketing tactics.

Re:get Sega ESPN sports games

[superpulpsicle]

Just to extend on that EA monopoly power. When you watch SportsCenter, they always use Madden as a football demo. ESPN fears using their own ESPN Sega football game, since it may jeopardize $$$ of marketing dollars. That's when you know EA's got you by the balls.

I hope

[Anonymous Coward]

that this ties them up in litigation enough that it distracts them from their core business of buying up creative game developers and destroying anything that was good about them.

Re:I hope

[TopShelf]

While I wouldn't expect ongoing litigation to be much of a distraction to them (that's why you hire lawyers), a negative ruling against them could be catastrophic. A court-ordered redesign of their personnel and software development practices would present a huge risk to keeping the pipeline of products flowing to the market. Even if they cleaned house and brought in new managers, it would take time to get things back up to speed.

In the fast-paced computer gaming world, a year or two lost to restructurin

If this was a football game...

[Zeppelingb]

John Madden says, "You just hate to see that!"

Three words...

[BJZQ8]

FORM A UNION It worked for GM workers who faced similar situations back in 1937. Stick together and they can't stop you...but then again, in this world where everybody is out for themselves, you've probably screwed.

Re:Three words...

[cgenman]

Unions are easier to form where you have stable employment and a local employment pool. In the gaming industry it is more difficult, as A: employment lasts somewhere between 8 months and 2 years, and B: people travel all across the country for work. It's far more difficult to consider yourself a union town if you're about to pop off to Frisco for a Stint with a new company.

That having been said, the union movement is gaining momentum, and I would gladly sign up for one.

You'd think that about Hollywood, wouldn't you

[Sagarian]

A business (the movie business), with an unstable labor pool (infinite supply of people with stars in their eyes), short project lifespans (1-2 years), ...

yet there is a Screen Actors' Guild.

Right

[Safety Cap]

~ there is likely a term in their employment contract that says they "will not organize".

They can put anything they want in the contract. It doesn't mean it is enforceable.

A contract I once received had all kinds of kooky stuff in it: I wasn't allowed to contact any of their "potential" clients after terminating employment. I ran that past my Lawyer and he laughed; it was patently above and beyond the bounds of any contract and thus not likely to be held up. The best comment: "They probably downloaded this contract off the Internet."

That's also why you get what you get when you sign anything without getting it vetted by your lawyer.

Re:Three words...

[demachina]

You don't have to have a union to STRIKE. That sounds like the solution to this problem but you do have to get everyone on the same page which is hard and dangerous, and you have to realize you are gambling big on a big win, or destroying your career. Of course when your future career is like this you are better off without it in the long run because it will destroy you physically and mentally. If you've never been severly burned out which is what happens inevitably from this kind workload it permanently damages you mentally and physically.

If you were to strike you have to do it at a point in the project where you have the management by the balls. If they lose their whole staff, and they can't finish with scabs, their schedule and their investment goes in to the dumper. Even with scabs there is a pretty good chance the quality will go in the dumper just because of the time to get them up to speed and they probably wont be able to fix all the bugs in other peoples work.

I know everyone hates unions, deservedly so because they were so thoroughly corrupted over the years. But this is a cautionary tale because this is what life was like for most workers in the early 1900's before unions came on the scene and compelled reasonable work hours and pay.

This is also a cautionary tale of the consequences you can expect from a long duration Republican domination of the government. The Republican party is consistently pro business and anti labor and they are promoting exactly this kind of environment. The euphemism they use for it in the economic reports is high "productivity". It means milking worker for as much work as possible for the lowest wage possible.

Free trade, outsourceing, and turning a blind eye to illegal aliens are all tools designed to pressure labor in to caving to this kind of work environment. Smartly run businesses who want talented, productive, happy workers wont do it, but most businesseses aren't smart and are looking to exploit labor to maximize their extremely inflated salaries and shareholder return. It should be noted passive shareholders don't do any work, they have money, they invest it, they make more money. In an era of plunging capital gains and dividend taxes they ease with which they make money this way and accumulate wealth is accelerating. Meanwhile workers are working more hours, for lower wages and still shouldering a huge burden in income and payroll taxes.

American's poopoo the word and pretend like its a fairy tale but this is what's called class warfare and the elite class is winning the war, big time.

Re:Three words...

[FortKnox]

I explained this in yesterday's article...
A union WILL NOT WORK in this instance. Why? Cause if you and all the game programmers join a union, the gaming companies will just replace each and every person. EVERY coder has, at one time or another, wanted to code video games. For each video game programmer that is employed right now, there is a hundred programmers that would kill for the job. If you unionize, they'll simply hire people that will take the job without going into a union.

Unions work for stuff like the blue collar automotive industry because people aren't beating down the doors wanting that kinda job. They can't replace all the workers. In the gaming industry, though, there is an extremely high desire for job and extremely low demand for jobs.

It simply won't work. You join together to form a union, you won't work in the industry anymore.

"Free" market hypocrites

[Dogtanian]

Where do you fucking commies come from anyway? You just seem to seep out of the woodwork whenever some story whining about bad work conditions comes up. Quit whining and find a better job!

Troll, sure. But it's a good opportunity to point out something...

It's blatant hypocrisy to support the right of companies act in their own interests (as supporters of the "free" market often do), then whine and start name-calling when employees do the same thing.

Companies acting in their own interest. Employees acting in *their* own interest. Seems like the true free-market to me.

No-one said the company owners on the receiving end had to like it; but they should take it like a man instead of screeching "Communists!" when the employee market (which is how you may care to look at it) decides to act together in its own interest.

Re:"Free" market hypocrites

[captnitro]

Sir, if I had a mod point, I would plant it, lovingly cultivate it and nurture it in the earth, wait until it blossomed and grew a mod point tree, pick them off, and give you a big fucking mod point basket with a bow and some seasonal jellies.

Well said.

Within the meaning of the law

[Rocketboy]

EA will not retaliate against employees for exercising legal rights, including by participating in the proposed class action.

In other words, your jobs are going overseas. You have the right to look for another job, and we won't discriminate against you for that.

Was it good for you, too?

Rb

Re:Within the meaning of the law

[T.Hobbes]

Even assuming your defeatest attitude is right, the workers are correct to exercise their rights. What's the point of having a job if it destroys your health and personal life? Not to mention the fact that the illegal and immoral practices the workers are just now fighting against result in (according to yesterday's article [livejournal.com] by an EA employee's spouse) 50% turnover, meaning the average worker has a 50-50 chance of leaving the company anyway. In short: the current conditions arn't tenable; ridding the US of s

A few thoughts

[slusich]

First of all, everyone always needs to keep in mind that HR is not there for the benefit of the employees. That's what every company tells you, but the truth is, HR's job is to protect the corperation. Never trust an HR employee to look out for your best interest. That being said, EA's HR department has obviously failed them by allowing things to get to this point. They should have kept pay and hours legal within the bounds of the state law. And did anyone else notice the featured game on the gamespot article? Sims2 by EA.

Good ol' HR

[gosand]

First of all, everyone always needs to keep in mind that HR is not there for the benefit of the employees. That's what every company tells you, but the truth is, HR's job is to protect the corperation.

You got that right. From '93 to '98 I worked at Motorola. For some of you who don't remember, let me set the stage: the WWW was in its infancy. At the company, we had just gotten access to it, and we had Mosaic. Intranets didn't really exist yet,and I was actually on the team that helped create it in our department. (I actually got an award for it, which is kind of funny now) We were on Solaris servers, 10 users per server. So we each had "web space", and people created web pages. It was kind of cool because it was new, people were putting information out there for the whole department to use.

On my page, I had lots of work related stuff, but I also had a small collection of engineer jokes. Nothing dirty at all, just dork humor. And so it went for a few years. One day I was called into Human Resources, and my manager was there. Neither of us knew what was going on. It turned out I was being written up for using corporate resources for non work related activities. My manager stood behind me, and fought for me. He explained that my web page was internal, and that it had mostly work related things on it. There was nothing offensive on it. As it turned out, some other people in the company had discovered the intranet, and found my jokes. They were looking at them, and their supervisor got pissed because they were goofing off. So they called HR. I wasn't even informed, and asked to take the material down, and neither was my manager. I was just written up for it, and it was considered a serious infraction. All we were able to do was argue it down from a class 1 infraction to a class 2. That meant that one more infraction could result in termination. I got a little livid with the HR person, and asked her if she had ever used her email for something non-work related, even saying hi to a family member. She didn't want to answer me, and I pressed her and kept asking. She finally admitted that she had. I asked if she was going to write herself up, and my manager stepped in at that point and ended the meeting.

I left Motorola about 3 months later. There were other factors, but I have to admit that the HR interaction helped me to realize that I didn't want to be there anymore.

Can you smell the outsourcing?

[TempusMagus]

The response will be to outsource your jobs at EA. Hopefully folks will learn the lesson; organize and plan for the worst when times are good and companies need the services you, as an employee, provide.

It's sad but I can't imagine any large company making concessions to it's employees in the current political climate.

Does anyone know how many of EA's employees are contractors, BTW?

Re:Can you smell the outsourcing?

[TempusMagus]

Yeah, and those crazy japanese guys will NEVER be able to take on Detroit.

Wonder how long it'll take them...

[GillBates0]

to come up with NLA Lawsuit 2005.

"Starting this week and lasting through the end of the season, you can get the #1-selling lawsuit game for an unbelievable $29.95!"

Bye bye to the jobs

[lukeduff]

I'm sure a lot of talented Eastern European, Indian, and Chinese developers wouldn't mind being exploited by EA.

Re:Bye bye to the jobs

[Hassman]

In Soviet Russia, the quarterback sacks YOU!

Pink slip

[RandoX]

"Remember, you can't spell ExploitAtion without EA." No, but you can spell "Out of work" without it. In many states (including mine) the employer doesn't need ANY reason to terminate an employee. Period.

Re:Pink slip

[gcaseye6677]

Yes, but even in a right to work state, which is what you're referring to, firing an employee in a manner that appears to be retaliation for complaining about illegal working conditions is legally very risky. Federal law punishes employers for a number of labor law violations, such as overtime pay, and the punishment is much more severe when they try to retaliate against the complaining employee. Contrary to what many people believe, salaried employees are entitled to overtime in many situations. Only if they are truly in management, with direct reports and a certain amount of autonomy over their job situations, are they fully exempt from overtime. EA had better be careful if they want to avoid a nasty legal mess, and it may be too late for them.

Re:Pink slip

[Nintendork]

Actually, Right to Work [about.com] refers to having the choice to join a union instead of being forced to when you become employed in a company with a union. What you're referring to is called At Will [about.com]. Regarding your comment on employers being careful when they fire employees, the laws that protect employees from wrongful termination are easy for the employer to work around. Unless you're a 100% super employee, they can and will find another reason for firing you. Unless you have an email, recording, or some other

Words to live by...

[telstar]

Don't hate the player ... hate the game!

How much do you want to bet...

[JumperCable]

that the class action results in an award for payment of lawyer fees & $5 off their next EA game purchase.

errrrm

[Prince Vegeta SSJ4]

Electronic Arts news release: due to popular demand, and the growing number of civil actions filed in this country, Electronic Arts announces a new game due to hit stores just in time for Christmas '05

commercial begins

-Johnny Cochran comes out-

EA COURTS : it's in the game!

"Disgruntled?"

[GSpot]

Has anyone ever heard of a "gruntled" employee? Just wondering.

Re:"Disgruntled?"

[jratcliffe]

Sure, they're people who work at companies with an "ept" management team. :)

Re:"Disgruntled?"

[scribblej]

I used to work at a place like that. I was whelmed.

Yeah.

[Renraku]

While I don't have much against a free market, this is clearly abuse. We take skilled workers, and treat them like shit. People that are great programmers, talented minds, etc. We run them through the dirt and then don't even have the common courtesy to give them overtime.

My father is a construction worker. 5 or 6 years ago, his company started pulling the same thing. He would go in at 8am, and not get home until 10pm or 11pm each night. Sometimes on Saturdays. They did, however, get overtime.

A month of this went by. People were tired. They were cranky. Accidents happened at work all the time, usually involving equipment damage or damage to whatever they were working on. They just didn't get much done in a 14 hour day.

Thankfully, the management saw what was going on and when that job was completed later that month, everyone was given a big bonus, an apology, and promises that they weren't going to set their 'completion dates' that low again.

It was depressing to watch my dad come in, after a 12 or 14 hour day, eat, shower, and go to bed, knowing that in a few hours, he'd have to be right back at work for another 12 to 14 hours. It was barely worth it in my opinion, even with overtime.

EA's shit should be a warning to other companies of what not to do.

People with debt = hard working people

[acomj]

One of the theories is people who have debt load (In the US its easy to get lots of debt) will work very very hard to keep there heads above water.

The trouble is alot of people want that bigger house or flashy car without thinking about how exactly there going to pay it off.

I'd rather have less (condo) and not have to worry about a huge mortgage/car payments. Gives you more time and freedom.

Good for them

[DeVilla]

Last night I was scanning EA's site trying to find a contact address of some sort so I could ask them to publicly address the message from the employee's spouce. I never found an address, but a lawsuit is more likely to get a serious response anyhow.

EA was one of the best companies that made games for the C64. However, as a gamer, I would have no problem boycotting them now, until they start treating their human resources like people. I would assume this sort of thing is how they destroyed Origin Systems. In any case, I don't need games developed in a sweat shop.

This is good news for workers' rights

[photovoltaics]

It's about time we stood up as a unit. The spouse's story sounds all too familiar. For nearly three years, I worked seventy and eighty hours weeks-- several times per month at one position. I don't know if management realizes how badly this has become. I don't believe this is necessary to continue this way. One thing not mentioned in the EA spouse's letter was how difficult it is to get another job while you're in the middle of an eighty hour work week. Your options seem much more limited than the reality of the situation. Thanks again to the EA spouse and /. for getting this message out there.

Game Industry Union?

[wooby]

It sounds to me like there needs to be some alliance or union of game industry workers. Is there such a thing? Problems like ridiculous hours were solved a hundred years ago by the introduction of unions in other industries.

EA is in california which means exempt is $95k

[ad0gg]

Exempted Programmers in california are required $45/hr pay or higher. So EA is obviously paying above ~$94k a year. We aren't talking about low paid employees. I'm sure if they quit, EA would have no problems filling someone at the salary range.

Re:EA is in california which means exempt is $95k

[WIAKywbfatw]

The exemption that you're referring to excludes people in the entertainment industry, because it is specifically designed to cover essential workers, such as a company's IT staff, and not non-essential workers, such as someone writing the AI for a game. Besides, from what I've read it's clear that not everyone at EA earns above the magic exemption barrier.

And even if they did, requiring staff to work 10-12 hour days, 7 days a week isn't only counterproductive, it's dangerous to their long-term health: I'm sorry, but it's the 21st century, and companies shouldn't be working their employees into the ground anywhere in the world, let alone in California.

I don't care if someone is paid $10/hr or $45/hr, they still have rights, and those rights include decent, respectful working practices.

There's no balance

[HarveyBirdman]

The responses so far

So quit! --- 51%
Unionize! --- 48%

Odd... I've seen those numbers somewhere before.

Boycott EA Games!!!

[StarTux]

I am never going to buy their games ever again!

Oh wait, I use Linux...

StarTux

Company Culture

[ShelbyCobra]

While I am an engineer, not a programmer, I have to say that the real answer to this problem lies in the company's culture, which includes the culture of the management. As long as there are people willing to submit to this sort of treatment, it will continue, EA being a very extreme case. Here are two examples of situations that I have worked in recently to compare and contrast.

Company #1: While it was never specifically stated that the employee should put in long hours, it was common for employees to work 7:00 am-5:30pm m-f with weekend work at least every other weekend. This was with no "crunch-time" effect. The culture of the employees was simply "I work more than you do so I am a more valued employee." The odd thing about it, is it was still impossible to actually complete an improvement project, and those employees who worked long hours were more adept at creating more work for themselves than completing it. A common joke at this company was "If you are working from 7:00 am to 7:00 pm, you are only working half days." Very funny. Even funnier, this company regularly makes the fortune magazine 100 best companies to work for list. Needless to say, I am no longer with this group.

Company #2: This company's culture is "Get your work done and get out of here." Much more relaxing. The value is placed not upon how much time an employee spends at work, but on how much the employee gets done. I would feel completely secure in this position if I would work myself out of a job by automating all things possible, because the company recognizes innovation rather than time at the grindstone. The 4.5 day week is common practice, and if you have to work overtime, other employees feel honestly bad for you. The best part about it, if an exempt employee works more than 40 hours in a week, management actually insists that the employee takes comp time. I could go on and on about this, but the culture of the employees and managers is the key.

The culture of a company is a very difficult thing to change, and it gets more and more difficult to change as the number of employees increases. The best thing that an individual can do at this time is to find a company whose culture is acceptable to their work habits. If enough of the best and brightest employees find the companies with the good culture, eventually the corporate giants with bad work practices will either change or die off.

If you think that you are the best and brightest, prove that you are the brightest by changing your own situation. Not only will it help you, but it will help others in the long run.

Sonic extreme

[Turn-X Alphonse]

Anyone remember the deal with the Sonic on the Saturn game?

One guy ended up in hospital for over work on that game and it never saw the light of dawn let alone day.

Yet everyone whines when game X is delayed because they want it NOW!

Well maybe we should start showing these people (I'm looking at you Duke Nukem forever fans!), what people go through so we can get our 5 minutes of kicks.

Where do you draw the line?

[StikyPad]

While I agree that the conditions imposed are/were arduous, and I myself have endured employment by an equally demanding employer, I'm curious about the rights of a salary worker to demand overtime. As much as we enjoy deriding doctors and lawyers, many of them work 80-90 hour weeks, albeit usually for substantially more money than the average programmer. If you agree to be paid on salary, and you agree that time worked in excess of 40 hours per week is acceptable when your employer deems necessary, then can you still complain that you have to work overtime without compensation? I guess I'm a little fuzzy on labor laws in the US.. Perhaps someone can elaborate.

Corporate Politics

[null etc.]

It's a real shame this guy hasn't been around the block a few times with regards to management. There are some very clear actions he could have taken to ensure that the noose wasn't just around his neck, but also around the next of his supervisor and HR contact.

Just some examples:

• Get all job requirements in writing or email. If your boss asks you to complete something, send him an email asking him to verify the scope and priority of the work to be performed. If necessary, use clauses such as "Do you agree that until completion of this task, this task takes precedence over all other requests made of me, unless otherwise communicated by you?"
• Get all reprimands in writing or email, and get as much clarification as possible. If your boss reprimands you verbally, follow up with an email asking him if your interpretation of his reprimand is correct. Ask him to describe or verify the actions that will be required to resolve the issue.
• Follow up on every contradiction. If your boss says "good job" one day, and yells at you the next, ask him via email to clarify the situation so that you can take steps to avoid repeating the situation. This is especially important if you need to represent yourself as a dutiful employee during future lawsuits.
• Ask to be educated about the formal HR policies for reprimand. Many companies, in order to avoid lawsuits, have clearly defined policies for reprimanding employees. These include written warning, signed by the employee; mandatory HR sessions upon reprimand; follow-up performance evaluations, etc. Some companies get lazy and stop following the policies they've defined. If so, your lawsuit will be much stronger! Try to get all reprimands processes as clearly and officially as possible. This will require your employer to make clear and rational decisions regarding your reprimand, unless they want to risk facing an unlawful termination suit.
• Save all email. During a lawsuit, your lawyer will need emails that may be years old, in order to make certain cases such as "this company promoted an atmosphere of such and such, as evidenced by these emails going as far back as..." I know of a lawsuit in which an employee saved his spam, and used that as evidence that the company wasn't serious about enforcing "corporate use only" policies.

Don't quit, that's just what they want you to do

[Thagg]

Seriously, quitting is almost certainly painless to EA, as they can get other people to do the job pretty easily. Just send an email saying that you're only going to work 50 hours a week, and stick to it, and see what happens.

Because firing people has consequences. I run a small visual effects production company, and we hire freelance people as we get projects, for the length of the project. The State of California doesn't see it that way, though, and to the state it appears that we hire and fire people at a high rate.

This causes our unemployment insurance rate to be insanely high -- we pay about 10% of our employee's earnings into the state unemployment insurance system. Now, we consider that the cost of doing business -- we could even avoid it if we wanted to by various means but it does seem to us a reasonable price to pay for the privilege of hiring people just when we need them.

But, if EA's unemployment insurance rate skyrocketed, it'd hit them right in the wallet. They might even do something about it.

Just a suggestion. Any EA exec reading this (Hi!) can thank me privately -- as you must know, long term, that these "crunch" policies will destroy the company.

Thad

An alternate option:

[mcc]

If your employer is not following employment practices laws, you could ask the courts to force them to comply.

Re:An alternate option:

[garcia]

Just remember that there are ways to make your life hell that are completely legal and well within their realm even after the courts become involved.

Personally I am happy to stay out of office politics and do my job to the best of my ability. If I don't like the conditions where I am working I start looking elsewhere for work.

If I had the talent that the EA guys likely do I'm sure it would not be difficult. At least not as difficult as EA would make your work-life.

Re:What the world needs... another lawsuit

[FuzzzyLogik]

uhm... you realize that not everyone has the luxuary of quitting a job. see, most people have things called bills. some have a mortage, car payments, insurance, KIDS, etc etc. Just up and quitting a job isn't necessarily an option because these things have deadlines on them every month, kids have constant needs, food, clothes, blah blah blah. Computer and tech jobs are hard enough to find as it is, quitting is not an option unless you have enough in your bank account to sustain living for weeks or months before you find another job. think before you open your mouth. There's no reason a company in the U.S. should be operated like this, people have rights, it seems EA isn't obeying these rights. Common curtesy is a big thing for me too, with my current employer if they try to back me into a wall, i fire right back and put them against the wall, one of the good things about being in a union. These people are standing up for themselves. it's nice to know YOU can quit, but not everyone can, they need income.

Excuse me sir, but could you please evolve?

[TempusMagus]

Ah, nothing like a trailer-park social darwinist to get the juices flowing first thing in the morning. Has it ever occured to you that some of these people have families and bills to pay? Quitting a job is sometimes not an option for folks who have to make decisions based on criteria other than lifestyle. I'm so sick of the current American/Hobbesian worldview of "each man against all men". We have a name for creatures that endorse that world-view: animals.

Can I ask all you socialists something?

[smithmc]

To the authors of Excuse me sir, but could you please evolve?, Libertarianism at its worst, and the post beginning with uhm... you realize that not everyone has the luxuary of quitting a job.:

Do you expect to have the right to decide who you want to work for, and to leave one employer for another if, for instance, they offer more money or more desirable conditions?

If so, then why do you think that a business should not be able to choose who it will employ, and for what salary and under what conditions?

Th

Re:Excuse me sir, but could you please evolve?

[hyphz]

> If the company is breaking the law, they
> should be punished. If the company is simply
> enforcing contracts that people agreed to when
> the dollar signs overrode their common sense,
> the employees should shut up or consider a
> career change.

However, in contract law, when one side has much greater bargaining power than the other, some extra provisions kick in to prevent that one side from (basically) ordering the other to bend over. The tilted employers' market could be good reason for

Re:Excuse me sir, but could you please evolve?

[Qzukk]

EA has a terrible reputation within the industry for treating it's people like shit.

Theres a HUGE difference between treating your employees like shit and literally robbing them of their compensation by annoucing towards the end of the project that their comp time for the overtime they've already put in is void.

Let the lawsuit go on. This goes beyond some "wah my life sucks" complaint, this is basically theft. If you could arrest a corporation, it should be thrown in jail to think about what its done.

Libertarianism at its worst

[NDPTAL85]

This wonderful AC just pointed out the glaring flaw in libertarian economic theory. That the free market is the solution to all corporate ills. So basically, we're supposed to wait years or decades for a large corporation to suffer the consequences of its own bad policies for the market to finally convince it to change its ways. In the meantime, hundreds or thousands of employees and or customers are hurt because enacting faster moving regulation would be seen as "hindering" economic activity.

Absolutely WE-TODD-IT is what libertarians are.

Re:What the world needs... another lawsuit

[falcon9x]

Don't like the job? QUIT! If the job is so horrible, EA will eventually have trouble filling it and change their practices. Magic of a free market.

... OR
You can get together and unionize, and rally for better conditions. Like back in the day, when factory conditions in the US were horrible. Quitting didn't do anything. Banding together against the employers did.

Re:just quit

[pbranes]

The problem at EA is the same reason unions were first started, over 100 years ago. Employers would drive their employees to the brink of physical and mental exhaustion with little compensation (monetary or otherwise) to show for it. Today, unions have become nothing but organized gangs out for political power, but their original purpose was valid. There aren't an infinite number of jobs available out there, so if a person quits working at EA, they aren't guaranteed to get a job anywhere else, and then their family starves. Sometimes you have to keep working at a job that is terrible because the consequences of quitting are even more terrible. I think EA (like other gaming companies) should stop rushing junk out the door, and if they use a reasonable, efficient methodology (i.e. extreme programming, or something along those lines) then they will not have the infamous crunch time.

Re:just quit

[cayenne8]

This type of thing is why I'll never work a salaried position again. I don't work for free. I'll work hard....I'll work the hours needed. But, not for free. This is one thing I'm pissed at the Republican's for...trying to cripple the OT rules. This didn't start recently for IT, though. Years ago, my Dad (an EE), told me that 1.5 time for OT was common...and the Govt. put a clamp on that calling it 'professional' services...so, no longer subject to 1.5x pay for OT. Now, they're even trying to take away straight time.

From now on...I prefer contract working...If I had to go direct, I'd push for hourly pay...if you get caught in this salaried thing...they'll kill you.

I'm not a pro-union guy. They just seem to corrupt themselves, and start to operate only for their own benefit. You gotta be a good negotiator for yourself. I find that works best these days. You gotta look out for yourself, your company certainly is not.

Re:just quit

[Garse Janacek]

People are quitting, that's not the point. If you'd read the story yesterday and this one, you'd know that EA has absurdly high turnover rates. The problem isn't that people can't quit, it's that EA keeps bringing in new people by lying to them, and then running them into the ground.

The problem isn't (just) that EA was unfair to a lot of people in the past, it's that it continues to lie and manipulate new people into the same trap -- because as long as people ship a title before quitting, what does EA care? There are always more people who want to work there.

What EA is doing is illegal, and they are pursuing it as a deliberate and continuing policy. This isn't just a couple employees who are upset because they had a bad experience and want to win money with a lawsuit, and individual employees quitting won't change things, since that is already factored into EA's strategy.

Re:just quit

[Bull999999]

EA keeps bringing in new people by lying to them, and then running them into the ground.

As long as the consumers keep buying products from them and workers keep applying for their jobs, they have absolutely no incentives to quit their practice. Any geek gamers out there willing to boycott EA's products until they change their ways?

Re:just quit

[Garse Janacek]

As long as the consumers keep buying products from them and workers keep applying for their jobs, they have absolutely no incentives to quit their practice.

In a completely free market (which the US is not), that would be true. That's why there are federal and state laws to protect workers from these sorts of situations. While we may not know conclusively for a while, it looks like there's substantial evidence that EA is violating some of those laws. By all means, boycott their products, but there should b

Re:just quit

[Dogtanian]

As long as the consumers keep buying products from them and workers keep applying for their jobs, they have absolutely no incentives to quit their practice.

Uh... they would have an incentive if they started getting sued left, right and centre.

If they were lying to employees, that would be (breaking) a verbal contract, right? (I am assuming the US allows verbal contracts, assuming they can be proven).

If one employee is lied to, they're going to have a hard time proving it. If it is happening repeatedly and systematically to many employees, the case against EA would become stronger.

Re:just quit

[Anonymous Coward]

One possible tactic would be to claim you own copyright to the code in the game, since EA broke your employment contract, or didn't pay you for work you did. Start selling copies, and force it into court on the copyright issue, and only tangentially the employment issue. These things take a while and by the time you are in court, with EA's turn over, all your co-workers will be working elsewhere, and be more willing to testify.

Re:pufft

[Proney]

true [cnn.com]

Re:pufft

[Billly Gates]

Wrong.

At Walmart for example everyone is considered a manager which means they no longer get time and half after 40 hours a week.

Its also great since they can not fire more employee's and overwork the ones they have without penalty.

Re:Sheesh!

[Bull999999]

Could the "Free Market" believers just shut the fuck up?

That's nothing that prevent you from opening your own employee friendly company. So I suggest that you shut the fuck up and lead by example since bitching about it on Slashdot doesn't change anything.

BTW, there are plenty of IT and non-IT jobs out there that doesn't require you to do unpaid overtime. The pay will probably be lower but what's more important? Free time or more pay?

Re:Sheesh!

[hyphz]

Exactly. This is the basic thing which people refuse to see, because seeing it would be too horrible for them to contemplate:

In many industries, free enterprise is now dead.

The entry costs have risen far too high and the established businesses are so well-grounded that no new entrant has any hope of competing - or at least, they might have a slender hope, but nobody's going to invest the required amount on the basis of a slender hope.

Some argue that free enterprise exists as long as they have the "rig

Re:Sheesh!

[EvilNight]

Understand that the USA isn't strictly a free market economy. There's entirely too much governmental meddling going on, some of it good, most of it bad. There are a hell of a lot of ways to abuse the system and get away with it, and few people know better ways to do it than fat cat PHBs who have been practicing it for decades.

The people hailing free market are right, it does work. It's just that the reality of the world's economy isn't strictly free market, so while the idea is a good one, the implementati

Re:Long hours at Angel Studios - but no complaints

[mikael]

really good food, lunch time barbecues, lunch time head shavings, etc.

The food part sounds good, but I'd prefer to work for a company that gave me at least 30 minutes of spare time every three months to get a decent haircut. Or do they take missing deadlines really seriously?

Re:crybaby diva programmers.

[dr_leviathan]

I've worked 60 and 70 hour weeks in the game industry. It was fun, challenging, and rewarding. However I wasn't working for EA and I didn't have to deal with antagonistic, lying, demanding bosses.

Within the game developer's community it is well known that EA is Evil Co. I haven't worked there but I've talked to people who have. I'm glad to see their reputation catching up with them.

I hope the class action lawsuit goes through and EA has to pay out.

Re:ridiculous

[sabat]

Uhhh, ok -- they may not be physically chained to their desks, Mr. Star-eyed Libertarian, but if they have mortgages and families and other responsibilities, then they can't quit so easily. Not in this job market.