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Electronic Arts Facing Possible Class Action Lawsuit
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:17 AM
from the what-goes-around-yada-yada dept.
from the what-goes-around-yada-yada dept.
As a follow-up to yesterday's story about a frustrated EA employee's spouse, several readers wrote in to report that EA is now facing a possible class action lawsuit from disgruntled employees. Besides the Gamespot coverage, Kotaku has a discussion of it as well. To add to the "frustrated EA worker" momentum, a former employee named Joe Straitiff has posted about his experiences as well. From his post: "So I'm posting under my real name -- you have to stand up to this type of thing or it will continue. And every company will become EA so that can compete... Remember, you can't spell ExploitAtion without EA."
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Former EA Employees? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Former EA Employees? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Game Development Sweatshops (Score:5, Insightful)
"If you want to earn the big bucks be prepared to pay the price."
Except that the game dev industry doesn't really pay all that well relative to other software development jobs. Because everyone and their cousin wants to develop games. They'll burn you out like a backyard BBQ because they know they can just replace you.
And all the while they dangle the high salaries of the Top Tier Talent as the crack-laced carrot to keep you slaving away.
You'll find exceptions, but reality is quite ugly.
Parent
Re:Former EA Employees? (Score:5, Insightful)
And this attitude is the problem in a nutshell... how do you expect things to get any better if the answer is always "it's like this everywhere, get over it?" Change has to start somewhere. If you don't like your working conditions then you should do every reasonable thing in your power to fix them.
Parent
Re:Former EA Employees? (Score:5, Insightful)
You must be a manager. Nobody else could possibly have posted something as stupid as "get over it". Here's a better idea: walk the entire team right the fuck out halfway through the project and watch the idiots in upper management scramble like a bunch of helpless, headless chickens to try and replace the people who's backs they break to make their $3000 mortgage payments in between day time trips to the golf course and porking their secretaries on the Italian leather sofa in the office they're in for 5% of the week.
The country doesn't need white collar workers to "get over it", it needs workers to stand up and tell managers to go piss up a rope. Remember people: management doesn't actually DO anything. No company can run with only management because they don't actually do any of the work. If enough people get up and walk out at once, they're screwed.
Parent
Mod parent way the fuck up (Score:5, Insightful)
Somehow, I find it amazing that on a site chock-full of libertarians and liberal weenies, unionization comes up so infrequently. I know striking is difficult, but software development is a field in which it is uniquely effective: it's imperative that the same people finish a project who started it, or you waste months showing the new team the ropes. You can't just hire a bunch of scabs to stamp out code like it's steel.
Parent
Re:Former EA Employees? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now why would I want to get my pay based on seniority rather than performance? I have several family members (father included) in construction unions and I don't see how the benefits would help in the technology sector. If anything, I'd see unionization as a sure way to move jobs out of the country even faster.
Parent
Re:Former EA Employees? (Score:5, Insightful)
None of this "I'm late because of my sick daughter" crap
Yeah because clearly the company that you work for is more important then your children. If my boss ever gives me shit about showing up late or leaving early because of a sick child I'll hand in my resignation on the spot. Your family is a million times more important then your company.
What kind of hours do you suppose the executives work? Do you think they'd be doing this if they had to pay these people overtime? If I was working for EA I'd start talking to local union reps. See how fast they change their ways when they are threatened with unionization.
Parent
Re:Former EA Employees? (Score:5, Funny)
My grand-dad looked at him witheringly. "I will NEVER ask you if I can leave work. I may, however, ask you if I can come back..."
Parent
Re:Former EA Employees? (Score:5, Insightful)
And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man on the moon
When you comin' home dad?
I don't know when, but we'll get together then son
You know we'll have a good time then
Parent
Re:Former EA Employees? (Score:5, Insightful)
One day, you and people like you are going to have to decide if all you want to be is a consumer; Is everything you do with the focus of earning money to buy things. Or, are you going to stop along the road and enjoy things like the innocence in your childs eyes.
You decide, work like the Japanese and die an early death from the stress, or live and love longer and enjoy yourself along the way.
Parent
Re:Former EA Employees? (Score:5, Informative)
This [who.int] says they are #1 on the list while the US is #24...
Parent
parent is dead right (Score:5, Interesting)
A non-scientific analysis of how fewer work hours might not be as bad for productivity as we thought can be found here [itotd.com]. (note: this link is only authoritative for those who view interesting thing of the day as having authority).
Parent
I hope (Score:5, Insightful)
If this was a football game... (Score:5, Funny)
Three words... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Three words... (Score:5, Interesting)
That having been said, the union movement is gaining momentum, and I would gladly sign up for one.
Parent
You'd think that about Hollywood, wouldn't you (Score:5, Informative)
yet there is a Screen Actors' Guild.
Parent
Right (Score:5, Insightful)
They can put anything they want in the contract. It doesn't mean it is enforceable.
A contract I once received had all kinds of kooky stuff in it: I wasn't allowed to contact any of their "potential" clients after terminating employment. I ran that past my Lawyer and he laughed; it was patently above and beyond the bounds of any contract and thus not likely to be held up. The best comment: "They probably downloaded this contract off the Internet."
That's also why you get what you get when you sign anything without getting it vetted by your lawyer.
Parent
Re:Three words... (Score:5, Insightful)
A union WILL NOT WORK in this instance. Why? Cause if you and all the game programmers join a union, the gaming companies will just replace each and every person. EVERY coder has, at one time or another, wanted to code video games. For each video game programmer that is employed right now, there is a hundred programmers that would kill for the job. If you unionize, they'll simply hire people that will take the job without going into a union.
Unions work for stuff like the blue collar automotive industry because people aren't beating down the doors wanting that kinda job. They can't replace all the workers. In the gaming industry, though, there is an extremely high desire for job and extremely low demand for jobs.
It simply won't work. You join together to form a union, you won't work in the industry anymore.
Parent
"Free" market hypocrites (Score:5, Insightful)
Troll, sure. But it's a good opportunity to point out something...
It's blatant hypocrisy to support the right of companies act in their own interests (as supporters of the "free" market often do), then whine and start name-calling when employees do the same thing.
Companies acting in their own interest. Employees acting in *their* own interest. Seems like the true free-market to me.
No-one said the company owners on the receiving end had to like it; but they should take it like a man instead of screeching "Communists!" when the employee market (which is how you may care to look at it) decides to act together in its own interest.
Parent
Within the meaning of the law (Score:5, Insightful)
In other words, your jobs are going overseas. You have the right to look for another job, and we won't discriminate against you for that.
Was it good for you, too?
Rb
A few thoughts (Score:5, Informative)
Good ol' HR (Score:5, Interesting)
You got that right. From '93 to '98 I worked at Motorola. For some of you who don't remember, let me set the stage: the WWW was in its infancy. At the company, we had just gotten access to it, and we had Mosaic. Intranets didn't really exist yet,and I was actually on the team that helped create it in our department. (I actually got an award for it, which is kind of funny now) We were on Solaris servers, 10 users per server. So we each had "web space", and people created web pages. It was kind of cool because it was new, people were putting information out there for the whole department to use.
On my page, I had lots of work related stuff, but I also had a small collection of engineer jokes. Nothing dirty at all, just dork humor. And so it went for a few years. One day I was called into Human Resources, and my manager was there. Neither of us knew what was going on. It turned out I was being written up for using corporate resources for non work related activities. My manager stood behind me, and fought for me. He explained that my web page was internal, and that it had mostly work related things on it. There was nothing offensive on it. As it turned out, some other people in the company had discovered the intranet, and found my jokes. They were looking at them, and their supervisor got pissed because they were goofing off. So they called HR. I wasn't even informed, and asked to take the material down, and neither was my manager. I was just written up for it, and it was considered a serious infraction. All we were able to do was argue it down from a class 1 infraction to a class 2. That meant that one more infraction could result in termination. I got a little livid with the HR person, and asked her if she had ever used her email for something non-work related, even saying hi to a family member. She didn't want to answer me, and I pressed her and kept asking. She finally admitted that she had. I asked if she was going to write herself up, and my manager stepped in at that point and ended the meeting.
I left Motorola about 3 months later. There were other factors, but I have to admit that the HR interaction helped me to realize that I didn't want to be there anymore.
Parent
Can you smell the outsourcing? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's sad but I can't imagine any large company making concessions to it's employees in the current political climate.
Does anyone know how many of EA's employees are contractors, BTW?
Re:Can you smell the outsourcing? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Wonder how long it'll take them... (Score:5, Funny)
"Starting this week and lasting through the end of the season, you can get the #1-selling lawsuit game for an unbelievable $29.95!"
Bye bye to the jobs (Score:5, Interesting)
Words to live by... (Score:5, Funny)
errrrm (Score:5, Funny)
Electronic Arts news release: due to popular demand, and the growing number of civil actions filed in this country, Electronic Arts announces a new game due to hit stores just in time for Christmas '05
commercial begins
-Johnny Cochran comes out-
EA COURTS : it's in the game!
"Disgruntled?" (Score:5, Funny)
Re:"Disgruntled?" (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Yeah. (Score:5, Interesting)
My father is a construction worker. 5 or 6 years ago, his company started pulling the same thing. He would go in at 8am, and not get home until 10pm or 11pm each night. Sometimes on Saturdays. They did, however, get overtime.
A month of this went by. People were tired. They were cranky. Accidents happened at work all the time, usually involving equipment damage or damage to whatever they were working on. They just didn't get much done in a 14 hour day.
Thankfully, the management saw what was going on and when that job was completed later that month, everyone was given a big bonus, an apology, and promises that they weren't going to set their 'completion dates' that low again.
It was depressing to watch my dad come in, after a 12 or 14 hour day, eat, shower, and go to bed, knowing that in a few hours, he'd have to be right back at work for another 12 to 14 hours. It was barely worth it in my opinion, even with overtime.
EA's shit should be a warning to other companies of what not to do.
People with debt = hard working people (Score:5, Insightful)
The trouble is alot of people want that bigger house or flashy car without thinking about how exactly there going to pay it off.
I'd rather have less (condo) and not have to worry about a huge mortgage/car payments. Gives you more time and freedom.
Parent
This is good news for workers' rights (Score:5, Insightful)
There's no balance (Score:5, Funny)
So quit! --- 51%
Unionize! --- 48%
Odd... I've seen those numbers somewhere before.
Company Culture (Score:5, Insightful)
Company #1: While it was never specifically stated that the employee should put in long hours, it was common for employees to work 7:00 am-5:30pm m-f with weekend work at least every other weekend. This was with no "crunch-time" effect. The culture of the employees was simply "I work more than you do so I am a more valued employee." The odd thing about it, is it was still impossible to actually complete an improvement project, and those employees who worked long hours were more adept at creating more work for themselves than completing it. A common joke at this company was "If you are working from 7:00 am to 7:00 pm, you are only working half days." Very funny. Even funnier, this company regularly makes the fortune magazine 100 best companies to work for list. Needless to say, I am no longer with this group.
Company #2: This company's culture is "Get your work done and get out of here." Much more relaxing. The value is placed not upon how much time an employee spends at work, but on how much the employee gets done. I would feel completely secure in this position if I would work myself out of a job by automating all things possible, because the company recognizes innovation rather than time at the grindstone. The 4.5 day week is common practice, and if you have to work overtime, other employees feel honestly bad for you. The best part about it, if an exempt employee works more than 40 hours in a week, management actually insists that the employee takes comp time. I could go on and on about this, but the culture of the employees and managers is the key.
The culture of a company is a very difficult thing to change, and it gets more and more difficult to change as the number of employees increases. The best thing that an individual can do at this time is to find a company whose culture is acceptable to their work habits. If enough of the best and brightest employees find the companies with the good culture, eventually the corporate giants with bad work practices will either change or die off.
If you think that you are the best and brightest, prove that you are the brightest by changing your own situation. Not only will it help you, but it will help others in the long run.
Corporate Politics (Score:5, Informative)
Just some examples:
Don't quit, that's just what they want you to do (Score:5, Informative)
Because firing people has consequences. I run a small visual effects production company, and we hire freelance people as we get projects, for the length of the project. The State of California doesn't see it that way, though, and to the state it appears that we hire and fire people at a high rate.
This causes our unemployment insurance rate to be insanely high -- we pay about 10% of our employee's earnings into the state unemployment insurance system. Now, we consider that the cost of doing business -- we could even avoid it if we wanted to by various means but it does seem to us a reasonable price to pay for the privilege of hiring people just when we need them.
But, if EA's unemployment insurance rate skyrocketed, it'd hit them right in the wallet. They might even do something about it.
Just a suggestion. Any EA exec reading this (Hi!) can thank me privately -- as you must know, long term, that these "crunch" policies will destroy the company.
Thad
Re:just quit (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:just quit (Score:5, Interesting)
From now on...I prefer contract working...If I had to go direct, I'd push for hourly pay...if you get caught in this salaried thing...they'll kill you.
I'm not a pro-union guy. They just seem to corrupt themselves, and start to operate only for their own benefit. You gotta be a good negotiator for yourself. I find that works best these days. You gotta look out for yourself, your company certainly is not.
Parent
Re:just quit (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem isn't (just) that EA was unfair to a lot of people in the past, it's that it continues to lie and manipulate new people into the same trap -- because as long as people ship a title before quitting, what does EA care? There are always more people who want to work there.
What EA is doing is illegal, and they are pursuing it as a deliberate and continuing policy. This isn't just a couple employees who are upset because they had a bad experience and want to win money with a lawsuit, and individual employees quitting won't change things, since that is already factored into EA's strategy.
Parent
Re:just quit (Score:5, Interesting)
As long as the consumers keep buying products from them and workers keep applying for their jobs, they have absolutely no incentives to quit their practice. Any geek gamers out there willing to boycott EA's products until they change their ways?
Parent
Re:just quit (Score:5, Interesting)
Uh... they would have an incentive if they started getting sued left, right and centre.
If they were lying to employees, that would be (breaking) a verbal contract, right? (I am assuming the US allows verbal contracts, assuming they can be proven).
If one employee is lied to, they're going to have a hard time proving it. If it is happening repeatedly and systematically to many employees, the case against EA would become stronger.
Parent
Excuse me sir, but could you please evolve? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Libertarianism at its worst (Score:5, Insightful)
Absolutely WE-TODD-IT is what libertarians are.
Parent
Re:What the world needs... another lawsuit (Score:5, Insightful)
You can get together and unionize, and rally for better conditions. Like back in the day, when factory conditions in the US were horrible. Quitting didn't do anything. Banding together against the employers did.
Parent
Re:Pink slip (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:pufft (Score:5, Interesting)
At Walmart for example everyone is considered a manager which means they no longer get time and half after 40 hours a week.
Its also great since they can not fire more employee's and overwork the ones they have without penalty.
Parent
Re:EA is in california which means exempt is $95k (Score:5, Insightful)
And even if they did, requiring staff to work 10-12 hour days, 7 days a week isn't only counterproductive, it's dangerous to their long-term health: I'm sorry, but it's the 21st century, and companies shouldn't be working their employees into the ground anywhere in the world, let alone in California.
I don't care if someone is paid $10/hr or $45/hr, they still have rights, and those rights include decent, respectful working practices.
Parent