The Rise Of Reg-Only Media 478
cswiii writes "Following up his article a few weeks ago about the NY Times' loss of prominence across the online medium (previously discussed on /.), Adam Penenberg returns with a much wider assault on the
lurch towards reg-only content by Big Media as a whole. I just wonder what Margaret Thatcher would think about purportedly living in Beverly Hills..."
A junk email address (Score:5, Informative)
Re:A junk email address (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A junk email address (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:A junk email address (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:A junk email address (Score:2, Insightful)
Everyone I know already uses a junk email address for these sites. That's what my hotmail account is for, anyway. But even Google Toolbar doesn't know that I'm 26 years old, female, interested in underwater basketweaving, etc...
Re:A junk email address (Score:5, Informative)
Re:A junk email address (Score:5, Informative)
link (Score:3, Informative)
Speaking of Google... (Score:3, Interesting)
Why can't these big news sites do something like that? Track what you read with a cookie and give you ads that relate to the content you're interested in? The NYT would see that I read lots of tech articles, and could hawk computers at me, while giving ads for dictionaries to someone who does the crossword every day. T
Re:A junk email address (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree, and would add that it would increase diversity, not decrease it. Everyone has a throwaway email account they can use for free regs, or can get one in 30 seconds. Its is *free* regs we are talking about, after all.
Yes, information wants to be free, but someone has to pay for it and if targeting ads is the price, so be it. I can always not visit the site. It's amazing how people will raise so much hell over registering to get free content, and then bitch about the ads. Holy Christ, its free, but its not "free enough"? I guess they would like to get unemployment benefits even tho they have never had and will not seek a job, too.
Re:A junk email address (Score:4, Interesting)
Then don't go to registration sites. They do not have a monopoly on news, you know. That is the whole point. You have a right to choose. You DON'T have a right to tell others how to do business.
BugMeNot is Better (Score:3, Informative)
There's even a FireFox extension that will look up a login for you.
Cue theme... (Score:5, Funny)
I just wonder what Margaret Thatcher would think about purportedly living in Beverly Hills...
So I'm not the only non-beverly hills type who enters 90210 as a zip code? Heck I don't even live in the USA.
Re:Cue theme... (Score:4, Interesting)
/Mikael
Re:Cue theme... (Score:4, Funny)
Real address info that works. (Score:5, Funny)
Alan Ralsky
6747 Minnow Pond Drive
West Bloomfield, MI 48322
Re:Real address info that works. (Score:5, Funny)
Jake Blues
1060 W Addison St
Chicago, IL 60613-4566
Re:Cue theme... (Score:5, Insightful)
The companies might not think it's all that intrusive but I feel that it is my god given right to give them whatever I want just as they feel it is there to ask me whatever they want.
Better junk mail via fake info. (Score:2)
income > $500000/yr
interests: guns, animals, investing
He claims to actually received invitations to hunting exotic animal safaris; high-class escort services, etc.
Re:Cue theme... (Score:2)
So what? (Score:4, Insightful)
If you want the NY Times content without having to give up any information, then hustle down to the newsstand and actually buy a copy.
Re:So what? (Score:3, Interesting)
This issue here is that people are giving them information, but its faked information. So if its invalid information, how good is it? Why even have registration anymore if there is nothing for publishers to gain from it?
Re:So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Your points are valid. Certainly the quality of infomation that they collect is likely not very good, and as more folks become savvy, the quality will diminish further.
But that really isn't the issue. The publishers own the content, and can put up whatever barriers around that content that they want. As you have pointed out, the barriers don't necessarily have to make sense. And even when it doesn't make sense, it remains the sole prerogative of the publisher to conclude that their barriers don't make sense, or are alienating customers, or whatever, and make changes.
Hopefully the availability of less-intrusive alternatives, such as seeing the same content on Yahoo News, will bring sufficient competition to make accessing content less annoying and invasive.
Re:So what? (Score:3, Insightful)
The reason for the information collection is to determine general audience demographic. As long as they have something they can go to the advertiser and sell it doesn't really matter to NYT or their equivalences.
Even the act of registration is sufficient to determine readership
Re:So what? (Score:3, Funny)
I gave the NYT a spambucket addr, so I don't know what kind of ads they send to me, but now I'm curious....
Exactly what *do* they market to 70 year old female CEOs living in Afghanistan who make less than $20K per year?
Re:So what? (Score:2)
Re:So what? (Score:2, Insightful)
And use up more trees, and create more waste, and consume more gasoline and pollute more air on your way there?
We have the technology for all information to be distributed with minimal damage to the world, let's use it.
Re:So what? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm an American. It is my duty.
Re:So what? (Score:3, Insightful)
I disagree.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Right now in Minneapolis you can get 13 weeks of the StarTribune [startribune.com] for $1.00 a week. $13 for ~3 months of the weekly paper. To buy it from the paper box or the store will run you 50 cents a copy. Now even at the higher rate I don't see 50 cents as actually paying for the content. I would hazard a guess that the
Sera
Re:I disagree.... (Score:3, Interesting)
I assume the same logic is at work for online news sources as well. You'd be surprised how m
Re:I disagree.... (Score:3, Informative)
Then we get sick of that and go else where for the same news.
Some of us might use bugmenot, which can even be integrated into your browser, to get past this crap. But for the mo
Better methods? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:So what? (Score:3, Insightful)
Taking this into account I must ask what their product is. Is it the New York Times's content, or is it the people reading it? Obviously I am not arguing that they should allow anonymous login, I'm just saying your reasoning is based on the NY Times (etc) adopting a flawed busines
Re:So what? (Score:3, Informative)
And when those companies are the media you have a big problem on your hands: how do you get accurate reports on issues that would have negative effects of companies from the media when the media relies on the adverts from those very companies to stay alive?
You can't.
Medialens ended up discussing this with one of the Guardian editors [medialens.org] in April:
"Ever worked on a magazine launch? The first and only real questions are: who will advertise with in product / Will
Re:So what? (Score:3, Interesting)
This has nothing to do with content and all to do with advertising.
FYI, the NYT doesn't really make any money off the newsstand price - that's eaten up in printing and distribution. They make all their money on ads.
For some bizzare reason, advertisers are willing to advertise without all the detailed market info on radio, television, magazines, newspaper, billboards, etc.
Registration only Radio Shack (Score:5, Insightful)
------
new t-shirts [zazzle.com]
Re:Registration only Radio Shack (Score:5, Interesting)
I remeber one time I was on a job site 3 hours away, they were the only place around, I had to run in for a screw driver. They asked me 9 million questions, and even more since I wasn't from the area. I explained to them that I was working and needed to hurry back to work. They told me that they can't sell me anything without that information.
After that, I called rs everyday for 3 weeks bitching about it. I stopped going to rs for a few years after that.
Now, Strauss auto does this. They go a step futher. If you call on the phone to ask a price on
When I went into the store to buy it
Joe Smith
123 Main St
Sometown, NJ 05555
(732) 555-1212
eat@joes.com
They bitched about it
Now, I understand WHY they ask you SOME of the info. They ask your phone number so they can track what cars you own. Thats great and all
I have called there corperate office quite a few times, with no result so far. Needless to say, I no longer shop there.
As far as NY Times goes
The difference is... (Score:3, Insightful)
Comparing to the Shack is a bit unfair... (Score:5, Interesting)
As annoying as that was, it was a critical part of Radio Shack's business. Giving a correct name and address would just get you a flyer every month. About 20% of the months business would be people coming in grasping that flyer looking for stuff.
Radio Shack employees are/were commissioned sales people. The address thing was used to build your business. The idea is you don't goto the Shack, you go see Jason, Bob, Steve...whoever @ the Shack. When people balked at giving name and addresses over purchases, you told em what was being done with them: Company mailing list for a flyer.
Enter the computer. RS employees are tracked on dolalr per ticket and were tracked on name and address percentage. The computer didn't care if the purchase was $1.00 or $1,000 dollars. If you fell below 90% Names and addresses, you were in trouble.
The point is, as annoying as that policy was - it brought back many customers. Then Radio Shack started policies that created higher turns on employees and then they had to can the policy...but thats a different story. The registration emails are supposed to generate more subscribers for these papers and we have to see from the financials at the papers if the strategy is working. (I doubt it.)
-Electrawn
Re:Comparing to the Shack is a bit unfair... (Score:3, Insightful)
Tough shit. I don't have to be a willing partner in some company's business strategy. I don't have to be polite to cold-call telemarketers, I don't have to be polite to door-to-door trespassers (that "No Soliciting" sign means something), I don't have to read
Re:Registration only Radio Shack (Score:2, Insightful)
Yet now even more places ask.
Don't (Score:4, Insightful)
Using fake data isn't going to help becuase it doesn't lower the traffic volume.
It's time for some "Virtual Boycotting"!
Re:Don't (Score:5, Insightful)
Common misconception -- they are driven by the number of dollars that advertisers are willing to pay to get their message into some number of eye balls.
Online advertisers don't care as much about reaching the widest audience possible as they are about reaching the segment of the audience most likely to result in sales. A site operator can make more money with 10,000 users he knows everything about than he can with 10,000,000 users he knows nothing about.
Re:Don't (Score:5, Interesting)
pm
Re:Don't (Score:2)
Different Than Slashdot? (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Free Internet (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Free Internet (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a bunch of computers all linked together. If people want to give away information they can. If they want to charge for it, they can try to do that too.
Re:Free Internet (Score:2)
No. The idea for the Internet was toi simply connect several uniersities and scientific centers together. Everything else is an afterthought bolted on to serve the purposes of those who bolted the things on. (In English, please!)
Re:Free Internet (Score:2, Insightful)
anyway, this is not 1993. the internet was visioned as this utopian information repository, but in 1996 that vision was dashed by companies.
Re:Free Internet (Score:3, Insightful)
"Companies" is such a meaningless word in this context.
I think you meant those companies who have banded together as an evil empire to rape and plunder the innocent serfs such as yourself.
Re:Free Internet (Score:3, Informative)
In the case of the New York Times, they have to pay for salary and benefits, phone bills, plane tickets, etc. etc. etc. so their reporters can gather the information and put it in publishable form. If they do not have some source of income (whether it be advertising, subscriptions, or the elusive 'micropayments'), they cannot continue publishing.
Reg-only are annoying (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm just glad google news has a partnership where you dont have to register when you use their links.
Re:Reg-only are annoying (Score:2, Insightful)
um, because you have to pay to get one at the newsstand? otherwise, what's in it for the newspaper sites to offer for free?
Re:Reg-only are annoying (Score:2)
Now, if you can't find a paper for free, you're not looking hard enough. people leave them lying out for the next person all over the place. So really, reading it on the web isnt much different. Its all free.
Re:Reg-only are annoying (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, they're also giving you the news without asking for 50 cents, either... Registration is the "price" you pay for full access to the online newspaper. Is that too much? Fine, then don't read it... but don't adopt some holier-than-thou attitude just because the newspaper (gasp) asks for something back before it hands over its content.
If it's a bad business model, they'll go under. But there's no moral high ground here.
Re:Reg-only are annoying (Score:3, Interesting)
It's different than that. I'd gladly pay 25 cents a day for the Washington Post. But, I'm in Seattle. They don't distribute there. Or rather they only distribute the
Re:Reg-only are annoying (Score:3, Informative)
NYT Company revenues in Q2 3004 : $ 823.900 M
Circulation : $ 222.453 M (27%)
Advertising revenue : $ 552.013 M (67%)
Other revenues : $ 49.434 M (6%)
NYT Company Costs and Expenses in Q2 3004 : $ 692.200 M
In addition : "Operating profit in the second quarter increased 1.3 percent to $131.8 million from $130.1 million in the second quarter o
Re:Reg-only are annoying (Score:2)
But if you wanted to get a subscription to the print version of the newspaper, you'd be required to give them your name and address and possibly credit card number.
Online news sources should consider this dual model for their own use -- it may be justified to ask for personal information from devoted and regular users of the content, but the occasional visitor shouldn't be asked to jump through any hoops. The first few
Re:Reg-only are annoying (Score:2)
And the demographics aren't for their news coverage, anyway. It's usually for advertising purposes. And just like TV, advertising can pay the bulk of the money incurred in putting the publicati
Re:Reg-only are annoying (Score:2)
Fair enough, but then the advertisers are getting screwed, since there's so much fake data all that valuable targetted advertising is being wasted on a bunch of schmoes. Its not the worst thing in the world, but its pretty slimy on the part of the newspaper to put
Re:Reg-only are annoying (Score:3, Informative)
Its a computer thing. Don't know why either. For example, I just bought some tickets from Ticketmaster (thats another topic for another day), and I had 2 choices to get the tickets in the 8 or so that they were on sale.
1) call on a telephone thingy
or
2) go to the website
If I were able to get through to the website (I know noone that did), I would have had to "crea
It needs to change (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm tired of registering at every news site I visit. With the populatiry of sites like Fark and Slashdot, I no longer go to only one news site - I visit articles in newspapers in Arizona, Australia, Germany, Maine, in addition to my usual 3 - The Washington Post, the Seattle P-I, and the BBC World News.
I don't mind registering for my usual 3. I do mind registering when I want to read a single article in the Boston Piccayune. This makes me give up, and go somewhere else.
An accepatable compromise is to make registration necessary after reading 5 or so articles, instead of for all articles at that site. After all, do their local advertisers really care about someone who is miles away?
Conclusion is a bit weak (Score:5, Insightful)
It exists, and is called Passport. There was a hue and cry over it because people were worried about a centralized source of information in control of Microsoft about who they are and where they're going.
Even if you fake the information, it'd be like a super cookie. The best way if he's concerned about privacy is the current way -- stop the computer from broadcasting its IP address everywhere he goes and give a different piece of fake information to every website.
Re:Conclusion is a bit weak (Score:5, Funny)
Proof that banner adverts pretending to be system messages can work!
How advertisers make money (Score:5, Insightful)
That is EXACTLY all they care about- the illusion that they can target the ads properly, so that they can charge more money for "targeted advertising".
This story is old... (Score:2, Interesting)
Why Is This On YRO? (Score:2, Insightful)
When you're in someone else's house, you play by their rules. Don't like it, don't register. Simple as that. It's on part of my rights that I get something for nothing.
Shill accounts. (Score:5, Interesting)
One day, the time will come when they'll start comparing IP addresses against the registrar of any given account, but until then, I don't bother with my own accounts anymore. To be frank, I can't even remember what I used to sign up (once upon a time) for the LA Times.
Register name... (Score:2, Funny)
Also, won't they lose a majority of their traffic which Slashdot and Google users send to them if no one can index their data for search engines or link to the content...
Stupidity is not a crime so you're free to go
Registration (Score:3, Funny)
It would also be great if said "passport" can hold all my other info, like an address book, my social security number, all credit card information, and every password I'd ever need.
This passport should also be widely available to everyone, as that's the only way it'll be convenient. It should also be trustworthy and buzzwordy at the same time.
All I'm saying is that if I gotta register, might as well make it easy for me. If I gotta buy something, may as well be a half-click away. I mean if the interweb is supposed to be for everyone, it better be easy, right? Right? Security? Identity theft? Why the hell would anyone ever do that? I mean we're not terrorists or anything, are we?
tell you what I could live with (Score:4, Insightful)
An alternative to registering... (Score:5, Informative)
Using Bug Me Not will likely help a lot. When the sites realize that they can't control logins and they have dozends, hundreds or even thousands logged in with the SAME info, they'll know it's not helping them in any way. What'll happen next remains to be seen, but I doubt they'll pull content, it's too ingrained into people's expectations anymore.
bugmenot's popularity will kill it (Score:5, Insightful)
What'll happen once sites catch on? They'll hire someone like me to spend half an hour writing a script that queries bugmenot for logins to their site, and disables those accounts. Making bugmenot useless won't be very hard.
Perhaps what we need is a more anonymous version of Passport -- a site that knows how to sign up automatically to a large number of free-reg-required sites, with information that you give it one time. Then when you want to read the New York Times, you go to RegItForMe.com and say "please create an account at [www.nytimes.com] with my (possibly fake) info," which doesn't take any longer than using bugmenot. This way the pan-internet super-cookie privacy concerns of Passport are neatly avoided -- as far as each reg site knows, you're using a local account with them. RegItForMe.com knows which sites you've requested a login for, but not when or how often you go.
Does that sound feasible?
Re:bugmenot's popularity will kill it (Score:3, Interesting)
I suspect this would become an arms race, Bugmenot would find a way to block such things (robots.txt files would probably be ignored but IP access lists wouldn't be hard) and would end up costing the media sites more than it's worth.
BugMeNot (Score:2, Informative)
news.google.com (Score:4, Interesting)
Michael
Amusing.. (Score:2)
Inaccuracy Factored In (Score:5, Insightful)
Can I have my 5 minutes reading this article back?
It's utterly pointless... (Score:3, Insightful)
I always put into some smart a*s name and info, as do pretty much all my friends (80% of whom are IT types). So any demographic information is really crap. I tell my parents, friends, etc to do the same.
'Readership' I've probably created 4-5 accounts on the same site b/c I forgot the stoopid uid/pwd and just create another one if I really want to read something. I think any numbers about subscribers/readers are totally off.
People are busy and cautious. It puts people off - they don't want to give up any information (asssuming they are honest on the forms), or they don't want to be bothered signing up for a site that they don't even know they're interested in. Plus how many freakin uid/pwd combos do I really want to keep track of? Not many.
I think for posting to bulletin boards etc it makes more sense, so a-holes, harassers, etc can be handled. But when it's non-interactive like just reading an article, I don't see the point (as a user, I understand why the biz does)
If a site forces a sign-up, unless I REALLY need/want to read something, I'm outta there. Otherwise they never learn anything useful about me, other than maybe some generic machine location info.
My 2 cents anyhoo
Bypass Compulsory Web Registration -- bugmenot.com (Score:3, Informative)
http://bugmenot.com
Don't slashdot them. I mean...oh...hmm...
Syndication (Score:2)
noticed this (Score:2)
Pushback from Google News (Score:5, Interesting)
One effect may be to encourage more readership of Government-funded news sites. That's fine, as long as they're not all from the same government. Google News frequently has links to Xinhua, the BBC, the Voice of America, and Al-Jazeera. None require registration.
It's worth reading all four of those. If all four have roughly the same take on some event, the info is probably correct. If they don't, news manipulation may be going on.
(It's also amusing to read the Jerusalem Post [jpost.com], which is Israel's equivalent of Fox News.)
Does this really apply to us? (Score:3, Funny)
For the nytimes yes, for others no (Score:5, Insightful)
Now for other sites, I would probably avoid depending on the amount and quality of content. I would certainly not waste the time to register for my local paper's website or something of similar value to me. If you don't think getting access to the nytimes for free is not worth the "hassle" of registering, boycott the nytimes. Otherwise, don't complain.
Grey Lady lives (Score:3, Interesting)
surprized that people don't know better (Score:4, Insightful)
Geolocation for verification purposes (Score:3, Insightful)
BlockBuster Video and their phone calls... (Score:3, Interesting)
Has anyone here received a phone call, usually around dinner
time, where there was nobody there?
Recently, I went to the Blockbuster I usually go to and when I
went to check out, this not-very-nice person says I can't rent
anything because my phone number is 'no longer valid.' Well, I
begin telling her that I removed my land line service and was
only using my cell phone and I was not going to give her my cell
phone number. Well she starts on about how they need a
number and I realize that it had only been 4 days since my
turning off service! I then interrupt her blabbering and ask her
loudly and forcibly, how did they know my phone had been
disconnected so soon after the fact. I then asked if Blockbuster
was one of the companies that used robots to call people in the
evening, just to see if the phone number works. She then
looked down at the floor and said she don't really know about
that. I told her Blockbuster could kiss my ass and that I would
just go to one of the many other Blockbuster outlets and ask
about it.
So, I go to this other Blockbuster and get the same DVD and go
check out like normal. Well, this guy checks me out no problem,
so no I'm confused...
So, after several weeks of going to this Blockbuster, I go just the
other day, go ring up, and goddamnit if it's not the same bitch
from the other store telling me my phone number's not valid! She
remembers me the same time I remember her and I start going
off on the whole robot phone call thing and I'm not giving her
my number and apparently she was the only one that
cared about it anyway. She says she's filling in for the manager
for two weeks, and she let me check out w/o a phone number,
but when the manager returns she'll ask about it.
So, long story short, I hate those fnck!ng robot phone callers
and that's why I disconnected my phone. And I have found out
some of the reason why they do it. The robots call every few
days to make sure you are still there.
The way Google will die (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:You mean like slashdot (Score:2)
Re:You mean like slashdot (Score:2)
But seriously...come back and post again when you're required to register to READ the slashdot comments.
If I were going to write a story for NYT, then I'd register, but since I just want to read the article they don't need to know what my name is.
Re:You mean like slashdot (Score:2)
Cheese and rice, dude...what'd you do to get a DEFAULT posting level of -1? Slap CmdrTaco in his face?
Just curious.
Re:Innacurate (Score:5, Informative)
Re:annoying. (Score:2)
Re:Wait a minute... You mean there... (Score:3, Insightful)
Even if only half of the registering people on NYT are putting in their accurate info, they are still