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CDA Censorship United States News

Copyright Bill could Stifle Innovation 597

Posted by CowboyNeal from the overpowered-blanket-legislation dept.
binder520 writes "Wired has an article on how the latest Senate Bill, sponsored by Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), will hold technology companies liable for supplying devices or software that can be used to illegally copy music, videos, software, etc. It looks like it is time to write to your senators, because the verbiage in the bill is too subjective for any technology company to stand up to the media giants. Say good bye to your VCR, MP3 players, CD/DVD burners, etc."
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Copyright Bill could Stifle Innovation More

Copyright Bill could Stifle Innovation

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  • Memory Copyright Infringements Next? (Score:5, Funny)

    by mfh ( 56 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:46PM (#9774716) Homepage Journal
    Pretty soon, it's going to be illegal to even look at or listen to something covered by copyright protection. If you think about it, our brains keep a copy of everything we come into contact with in our memories. With science ever progressing towards Utopia, it won't be long before we are able to access and re-experience memories as if we were right there in the moment we first experienced them. "Just look in this little pen right here and say cheese! *FLASH* You will not remember anything about seeing Men In Black 7. You will be happy and do something special for everyone in your life. Thank you from the MPAA!"

    • Re:Memory Copyright Infringements Next? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by radixvir ( 659331 ) * on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:58PM (#9774837) Homepage

      You will not remember anything about seeing Men In Black 7.

      I wish i couldnt remember anything about seeing the first two, thats for sure.

      But seriously, how many people hate Orin Hatch at this point? he seems to sell out to about any company gives him money. i wish this guy would just go away.

      • "Friends, The legislation I propose today, will make our great country a better place. In this doccument is decisive legislation to outlaw that menace to all, Orin Hatch!

        When it is passed, he will be placed in a wooden box (with plenty of food and water), and shipped to the place where he can do the most damage: North Korea. We expect the regime to be toppled within two weeks of his arrival."

      • Re:Memory Copyright Infringements Next? (Score:4, Funny)

        by billcopc ( 196330 ) <vrillco@yahoo.com> on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:43PM (#9775136) Homepage
        Isn't that the dictionary definition of "senator" ? An old worthless sack of protoplasm that turns money into law proposals ?

        Day in the life of a senator:

        1. golf in the morning
        2. scam people on ebay
        3. trade real-estate
        4. molest 14yr old niece
        5. check up on today's wire transfers
        6. get ridiculously drunk at the steakhouse
        7. sit on the board and make some laws
        • Hey everyone let's ALL use windows to share copies of some random movie. We'll bring Microsoft down with this bill.

      • Re:Memory Copyright Infringements Next? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Hatta ( 162192 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @09:35PM (#9775439) Journal
        I hated Orrin Hatch before it was cool. Remember the methamphetamine anti-proliferation act? The one that would prohibit the dissemination of information about how to get, use, or make drugs?
      • I wish i couldnt remember anything about seeing the first two, thats for sure.

        Actually, that would be cool. You could get a lot of mileage out of your favorite novel:

        Hey! A Tom Clancy novel I haven't read!
        Boof!
        Hey! A Tom Clancy novel I haven't read!
        Boof!
        Hey!...

      • Where's That Site? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by LighthouseJ ( 453757 )
        Does anyone know where that site is that lists all contributions made to senators and such (how much and where from)? You know, these people legally have to report all contributions and such. I've looked around for links here on slashdot, and also through numerous google searches.

    • Re:Memory Copyright Infringements Next? (Score:5, Informative)

      by boarder ( 41071 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:10PM (#9774923) Homepage
      You have no idea how right (well, wrong, but factually correct) that idea is.

      Read the actual text [courtservice.gov.uk] of the UK decision PS2 modchips.

      Sony wanted the judge to rule that flashing the infringing material on the screen is the same as storing infringing material in RAM, which is the same as storing it in ROM, which is the same as illegally copying the game. They said that just showing the game on the screen is the same as illegally copying a game.

      Things might not have gone that far if the modchip in question didn't copy the game to RAM in order to play foreign/homebrew/cracked games. The copying to RAM is what the judge ruled was infringing Sony's copyright. Sony thinks that showing it on the screen was enough to be called an illegal copy. The judge seemed happy that he didn't have to rule on that.
      • Would that make emulators illegal then?
        While there isn't any emulator out there today that can really do decent psx emulation, there are a few active, promising open source emus out there. Give them time...
    • The media companies' solution [ibiblio.org].

  • Wow (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DigitalSpyder ( 714806 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:48PM (#9774729)
    Do politicians in America go out of their way to stifle innovation or is it just my perception?

    • Re:Wow (Score:2, Insightful)

      by mcpkaaos ( 449561 )
      Politicians in America go where the money is.

    • Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Donoho ( 788900 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:09PM (#9774915) Homepage
      Taken from Wired article: "The bill as it is currently drafted is extremely broad and not entirely clear. It would, at a minimum, undermine the Sony Betamax decision."

      Innovation isn't the target, just an acceptable liability. Politicians that submit/subscribe to such legislation are clearly more concerned about protecting the pockets of corporations/industries at the expense of technological innovation or cultural changes that would shift power away from them.

    • Re:Wow (Score:3, Insightful)

      by smchris ( 464899 )
      I believe politicians will consistently tell you they aren't scientists and therefore benefit from the experience of corporate experts (aka lobbyists).

      After all, nobody actually reads, much less understands, the bills they vote on. They say that these days like it actually is a defensible excuse.

    • Re:Wow (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Simonetta ( 207550 )
      Do politicians in America go out of their way to stifle innovation or is it just my perception?

      Politicians in the US are seriously busy, they often don't read the laws that they vote on. They vote the party line. The bills (proposed laws) are written by the politician's aides who move back and forth between government and industry.

      Passing really bad laws will, in the long run, just transfer innovation to areas of the world outside of US control and influence.

  • Orrin Hatch is a corporate whore (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:48PM (#9774730)
    It's time to nuke Utah since it only seems to produce annoying dipshits.
  • Dammit, so now I'm going to have to dispose of my Pantograph [wikipedia.org] then?
  • at least VCRs will still be useful, a la the (slightly paraphrased) Family Guy quote:
    Two hicks in a trailer with their pants around their ankles arguing over a VCR
    Hick 1:"Hey, it's my turn with the sex box!"
    Hick 2:"N'uh, it's my turn, and her name is Sony"

  • Orrin Hatch? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Monkelectric ( 546685 ) <{slashdot} {at} {monkelectric.com}> on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:49PM (#9774738)
    Why is it that every time congress is doing something incredibly evil -- Orrin Hatch is involved?

    Note to Utah: Its time for you guys to deal with this guy and kick his ass around the block!

    • He's the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. So he does what he likes. Next to Fritz "Disney" Hollings, Hatch is probably one of the self sanctimonious hypocritical bastard you'd ever come across. The man is spouting jesus from his mouth and pushing legislations that will unduly harm the citizens. This guy infact wants all the provisions of the Pat Act I & II to be permanent, under current statute it is supposed to expire(sic) on 2006. And about removing him, I dont think it's possible especial

    • Or... (Score:4, Funny)

      by tgd ( 2822 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:57PM (#9774825)
      Note to Everyone Else: Its time for us to deal with Utah and kick their ass around the block. ;-)

    • Re:Orrin Hatch? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by thogard ( 43403 )
      I don't know about you, but I refused to do business with people in Utah because of their inability to deal with electing senators and I'm happy to tell them that and I do take my business elsewhere. Too bad he's not up for reelection for another two years. Ever notice that everything he does seems to be more involved with other states than his own? I don't think he's been working for the people of Utah since maybe the 1980's.

    • Re:Orrin Hatch? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by kmahan ( 80459 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:06PM (#9774894)
      I vote against Hatch every year. Unfortunatly he's part of the local political system and the LDS Church loves him so he won't be voted out.

      And he knows it -- he really doesn't care what he does to the people of Utah (or the rest of you). He knows that nobody will hold him accountable. As long as he keeps getting his kickbacks from his big corporation buddies he's happy. Complaints from the "little people" (us) don't even register.

      One of the best things he's managed to do is convince the local news outlets (the biggest being owned by the LDS Church) to never report on what he is doing in Congress (aside from when he gets voted "best dressed..") If the citizens of Utah were kept up to date about the legislation he proposes and what his votes are there would be a huge outcry for him to be tossed out on his ass. Supposedly the natives here (I'm not one of them) value things like privacy, personal rights, etc. All the things that Orrin's bills seek to take away.
      • I vote against Hatch every year. Unfortunatly he's part of the local political system and the LDS Church loves him so he won't be voted out.

        The LDS church doesn't back Hatch or any other politician. Of course, he is LDS and thus the Mormon majority tends to identify with him more, but that does not mean the LDS church itself "loves" him. They are very careful to avoid even the appearance of supporting a particular candidate, even going so far as to having a statement read in all church meetings every el

    • Come on....... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by vwjeff ( 709903 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:38PM (#9775109)
      I don't think the motive behind this bill is evil. Artists deserve to be paid for their work. With that being said, I don't think Senator Hatch, Senator Daschle, Senator Frist, Senator Graham, Senator Boxer, and Senator Leahy realize the consequences of this bill.

      Members of both parties support this bill. What does that say? Think about it. Officials will not be re-elected if iPods, DVD burners, ect. are outlawed.

      Contact these Senators. Tell them how you feel about this bill. Point out the consequences created by this bill. Lastly, please stop making copyright laws a one party issue because it is not.

      • Re:Come on....... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Tony ( 765 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @09:02PM (#9775240) Journal
        Artists deserve to be paid for their work.

        Then maybe it's time for a bill that requires the industry to pay the artists?

        Right now, most recording artists see 3%-6% of the profits of their works. Most book-length authors see about 10%-15% of the profit from their work.

        I'm not saying laws protecting copyright aren't welcome; but the laws protecting copyright are already in place.

        It's disingenuous of the people backing these laws to claim they are doing it for the artists. It is rarely the artists themselves backing the bills, nor is it often the artist unions; no, it's the distributors.

        If a large number of artists came out in support of any of these bills, I'd gladly back it. But when the only artist voices I hear are saying it sucks as much as *we* think it sucks, it's usually not a bill in their best interest.

        Sorry. I think the whole, "Artists deserve to get paid!" arguments are right up there with, "We have to do this for our *children*." It's a baldface lie, and I'm offended they think I'm stupid enough to believe it.

  • Non-Story (Score:4, Insightful)

    by c0dedude ( 587568 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:49PM (#9774744)
    Hatch introduces these radical bills all the time. This one is Pre- committee [loc.gov]. Nothing to see here folks, move along.
    • Yes he does these bills quite often, hence they get posted on Slashdot quite often. Its much better to have it out and open before he gets it possibly past, rather than have to deal with the ramifications afterwoods

    • Re:Non-Story (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Erwos ( 553607 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:00PM (#9774852)
      I agree.

      For those not in the know, introducing something to a committee means the "new bills Senate committee" (not the real name, but it conveys the point) is going to take a look at the thing. If they think it's worth their time, they'll spend some time revising it and then introduce it to the floor of the Senate for discussion and a vote.

      Bills often change a _LOT_ during committee. And many of them die there. Considering how obviously stupid this one is, it's probably going to be killed in committee. Give the committee a little credit - for every bad bill that gets through, a hundred others die right there.

      As usual, though, /. makes this look like a done deal waiting for the president's signature, when in fact it'll probably go nowhere. People might pay a little more attention if things were less alarmist all the time...

      -Erwos

      • Re:Non-Story (Score:5, Informative)

        by c0dedude ( 587568 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:20PM (#9774989)
        Nope, not the way it works. Here's how a bill gets passed. This one is about at step 2 1/2.
        1. A senator and a member of the house get togather and write a bill.
        2. They drop it in their respective drop boxes, and GPO prints it up.
        3. Committee representitives say whether they want a hearing on it.
        4. Subcommitees tell their committees whether they want a hearing on it.
        5. Hearings are held, and each bill is modified.
        6. Assuming the bill doesn't die in Committee, and most of them do, it goes to the rules committee for the Senate and the House. A lot of them die this way, too.
        7. The rules committee schedules a vote. If they don't, time passes, Congress adjourns, bill dies.
        8. Both the House and Senate vote. If one doesn't support the bill, bill dies. These are timed votes, and if you can't get a majority within about 15 minutes (usually) that's it.
        9. Assuming all of the above has occured, you get a conference committee of Representitives and Senators who will hammer out a comprimise between the House and Senate versions. If they can't agree, it dies.
        10. Then the President can sign or veto. If he vetos, or refuses to act in 10 days (Pocket Veto), the bill dies UNLESS 2/3 of the House and Senate vote to override it. This rarely (in less than 1/10th of vetoes) occurs. If they dont, the bill dies.

        All of this has to occur in about 5 1/2 months.

        • Re:Non-Story (Score:5, Interesting)

          by dcgaber ( 473400 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @09:06PM (#9775260)
          Or the bill could be decided by the leadership to be of extreme importance and put on a fast track to go through subcommittee, committee and on the floor in the matter of weeks, if not days. There is no requirement that there are hearings on a bill, and while there may be outcry, members and senators are not in a real fear of losing their job because they did not hold a hearing on a bill (unless there is public outcry).

          Or it could be attached as a rider to another bill or to the approps bill. There are many ways that a motivated Congress can quickly pass bills. While this is a general good outline of the process, it is not uniform and many bills have been approved quickly when the leadership (particularly if both parties) wants it. A good example you know about...Patriot Act that was passed within weeks. You don't know about the tons of other examples because they happen without much fanfare.

        • Re:Non-Story (Score:3, Insightful)

          by zurab ( 188064 )
          1. A senator and a member of the house get togather and write a bill.

          Dream on! Bills are written by industry group (read: cartel) and corporate lawyers. Many congressmen/women don't even read texts of the bills they vote on, at least as far as I know.

      • Re:Non-Story (Score:3, Insightful)

        by sacrilicious ( 316896 )
        People might pay a little more attention if things were less alarmist all the time...

        After the DMCA passed, the term "alarmist" was severely deprecated in my vocabulary. Then the "patriot" act, the "spy on your neighbors" hotline, the Abu Graihb stuff happening from the top down... I'm sorry, I just don't get the term "alarmist" any more. This country is disintegrating right in front of our eyes, right now.

    • Re:Non-Story (Score:5, Informative)

      by The Importance of ( 529734 ) * on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:08PM (#9774908) Homepage
      Not entirely. Hatch tried to sneak this through to a vote without a hearing. Opposition forced him to have a hearing, but he wants a revised bill after August. There is a lot going on here. See, INDUCE Act Archives [corante.com] and LawMeme [yale.edu]'s Index.


    • There I go not reading the actual article....

      Yeah, one way to have nightmares for a week is to actually read the federal register and your state's register to see what sort of insanity regularly gets a committee hearing.

      But it doesn't mean all the insane ideas get trapped there.

  • Address of Your Senator/Representative (Score:5, Informative)

    by mlmitton ( 610008 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:49PM (#9774745)
    I thought it would be helpful to point out a link where you can find the address and phone numbers of your representatives.

    For the house:

    http://clerk.house.gov/members/index.html [house.gov]

    For the senate:

    http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/ senators_cfm.cfm>

    Let's make a difference!

  • ... I bet next they'll outlaw bigamy in Utah too.

    ... say what?

  • Rendering your 35mm film camera illegal... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by IBitOBear ( 410965 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:53PM (#9774783) Homepage Journal
    No really, every single company that makes anything that proports to "remember" anything what-so-ever "can be used" to "remember" a copy of a copyrighted work.

    Every single industry on the planet should be against these measures, including the artists.

    Relying on "the governments" or "the courts" to "get around to deciding where the draw the line" on *any* matter (as a founding assumption of proposing the mater in the first place) should be punishable by death.

    At first reading this may sound like a Troll, or on overstating the case, but if you follow the bouncing dollar bill, you will see that these "statements of vision disguised as law" are simply vast resivours of entropy trying to suck the life (money, rights, and intellegence) out of our culture.

    [I guess I am ranting, but what exactly *will* it take to get the people, any people, to listen?]

  • Orrin Hatch is just pissed... (Score:5, Funny)

    by john_smith_45678 ( 607592 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:53PM (#9774785) Journal
    that nobody is copying his music

    http://www.hatchmusic.com/ [hatchmusic.com]

    • Re:Orrin Hatch is just pissed... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by kerrbear ( 163235 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:37PM (#9775100)

      I still don't understand Hatch. I've said this before, but I remember Hatch kicking Hillary Roisen's ass about fair use early in the debates. At the time he led a heroic effort to stop the RIAA from imposing undue restrictions. I don't understand why he changed his mind...

      E.g. from: http://www.insightmag.com/news/2001/01/15/Music/Th e-Napster.Challenge-210824.shtml

      Along with the nation's teen-agers, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch of Utah is an unlikely proponent of the online music company. A key Hatch aide recently left Capitol Hill to become Napster's chief lobbyist in Washington. Unbeknownst to many, Hatch is a prolific, yet frustrated, songwriter who says Napster is a great way to get your music known if you don't get a record deal.

      "For every Metallica, there are thousands of talented songwriters whose music will never be recorded, talented musicians whose work will never be heard by the public. Peer-to-peer technology (like Napster) may help some of these artists," Hatch said in an interview with Inside magazine.

      • Back in the days of napster, Orin's position was influenced by a top aide, Manus Cooney. Apparently Manus was pretty akamai about copyright, but he eventually left (perhaps lost an internal power-struggle, complete speculation on my part) and went to work as a lobbiest for Napster. I don't know where Manus Cooney is now (probably because I haven't bothered to google the guy) but in his absence, Hatch was quickly drawn to the darkside with a number of unethical enticements like the publication and subseque

  • Very interesting... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Creepy Crawler ( 680178 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:53PM (#9774790)
    How you can create a law and have everyone be in violation at the same time..

    Havent our prisons been filled up yet? And now "5 Years for Unauthorized Duplication".

    Real violent criminals we have here, eh?

    Also if I recall, why is the RIAA helping with this guy? Isnt there a law saying a IRS recognized orginization CANNOT have political affiliation or be in support of a certain political affiliation? And there.. seems to be a excess of money going to the Repubs from record *associations* and org's.
  • Guess what the senator says about holding gun companies liable for murders committed with their products?

  • Read Atlas Shrugged. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Kenja ( 541830 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:53PM (#9774792)
    Read Atlas Shrugged. These laws are not being put in place to be followed. There are there to be selectively enforced.
  • I don't know why senators even bring this stuff up. There's no chance in hell that this will pass because even the industry will be against it (besides the fact that it's ridiculous). Nutsy stuff like the DMCA can be passed because some people don't understand the full ramifications of the law and it is pushed by the industry, but this law would just be ridiculous.

    It's similar to the "Hollings Bill" which could easily be interpreted as requiring that every digital to analog converter have copyright protect

    • Re:Good Jesus... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by crimethinker ( 721591 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:15PM (#9774963)
      I don't know why senators even bring this stuff up. There's no chance in hell that this will pass

      It's bargaining, just like when you're buying a car. The salesweasel starts high and comes down, while you start low and come up.

      With the laws, they start with the most obscene and fascist stuff short of getting themselves impeached. Then, when they've "come down on price" a little, it appears reasonable by comparison.

      -paul

  • Hatch is just bitter (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Locke355 ( 692507 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:54PM (#9774800)
    He got caught [slashdot.org], so he wants everyone else to suffer too.

  • Shooting thyself in thy foot? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by AtariKee ( 455870 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:55PM (#9774804)
    "Say good bye to your VCR, MP3 players, CD/DVD burners, etc."

    And your customers.
  • the least you can do is subscribe to the EFF Action Center [eff.org] to get in on the fight against totally evil shit like this.

  • Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Mdalek ( 702460 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:56PM (#9774814)

    Well in that case, microsoft should be sued first, as Windows is used more than anything else, in copying + distributing illegal files

    (sarcasm)

  • Copyright Stifles Innovation (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Matrix272 ( 581458 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:57PM (#9774827)
    Is it just an oversight on the part of readers, or journalists, or Slashdot editors, or some combination of the above to ignore many other things that also stifle innovation, like high taxes? Isn't it at all possible that more companies would invest in research and development if they could afford to do so, but they cannot because too much of the potential profits are seized by the government?

    • Re:Copyright Stifles Innovation (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Hemlock Stones ( 636570 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:24PM (#9775015)
      Except something like 40% or more of corporations pay little or NO income tax at all. The largest pay the least (good corporate tax lawyers are worth their weight in gold). Little guys, you know, the ones that tend to inovate most get screwed. About four years ago (give or take a year), Microsoft posted huge profits for the year and payed NO income tax at all. So while they LOVE to complain of high tax rates, big companies don't even come close to acually PAYING them.

  • Intel against it too (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ctr2sprt ( 574731 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @07:57PM (#9774828)
    A director and former executive VP of Intel also wrote an editorial, for the Wall Street Journal no less, bringing up mostly the same points. He's concerned that even stuff like CPUs could be considered "inducements" under this bill. He doesn't think that would ultimately fly in the courts, but he says it would have a really chilling effect on innovation. He used Intel as an example. If this bill had been around back when Intel were starting out, they might not have been able to get investment because of legal concerns. So it doesn't even matter if anyone actually prosecuted under the bill: its mere existence would be enough to discourage investment and innovation.

    The mere fact that Wired and the WSJ are both running stories against this bill suggest it has zero chance of ever passing. But it's nice to see a traditional print newspaper warm to some of the issues near and dear to nerd hearts.

    Oh, here's the link to the WSJ article [wsj.com], but it probably requires (pay) subscription.

  • It seems almost every day that there's an article posted here on /. about US politicians bringing up new bills and laws that anybody with some kind of intelligence would just dismiss as ridiculous. Basic freedoms of information and technology being clamped down by archaic/draconian laws.

    For the country that's supposed to be the "Land of the Free" and the supposed defender of democracy and open government, there certainly doesn't seem to be much of that sort of thing going on at the moment.
    -

    • It's always been this way. Look closely at your American history books and you will see that our country has always had these radicals. The mass media that we have now days just makes the information more apparant.

      The past few years I have started to really question the old saying about Democrats and big government and big spending. It seems as though Republicans are behind the majority of the bills, laws and ammendments that put control at the federal level. The modern Republicans that are fiscal lib

  • . . . and in other news, Europe pulls ahead (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Brad Cossette ( 319687 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:00PM (#9774846)
    Good grief, you'd think this legislation was drafted by someone who wanted to cripple the U.S. Economy for good. On the one hand, we have problems with outsourced jobs, economy still struggling to recover, terrorist threats, middle-east unrest . . . and some senators feel that now's a good time to give lawyers even more things to sue companies for??????

    You know, I've thought about going into law school - it seems the jobs are leaving the IT industry and heading that way . . .

    But seriously - at what point can we just say to the entertainment industry "live with it"? How long has the software industry lived with software piracy for better and worse?

    I'll say this - all those countries that have been worried about the corrupting influence of American culture, don't worry. Senator Hatch is working very hard to make sure that there's no possible way for any of that culture to escape the country.

  • I guess that makes him (or it?) an outlaw. Or maybe future Furby's will be programmed to self-destruct if your 2 year old sings them a copyright tune, like the Barney theme or happy birthday. Does this make my telephone voice mail an illegal circumvention device? Somebody might call me up and hum a copyrighted song, better unplug it....

    Has this guy ever thought of moving to N. Korea? I bet he would love it there. Too bad for him that East Germany no longer exists. He would have made a wonderful Stazi bureaucrat.

    Actually, somebody should propose an amendment to his bill which would also hold liable the manufacturer of any technology which could be used to reproduce copyright printed matter as well, so we can outlaw computers, typewriters, photocopiers, paper, pens, etc. Just to show how looney this really gets.

  • Orrin Hatch, Republican, Utah.

    Nope, I'm not particularly fond of any of those three.
  • It is becoming increasingly common for legislators try to get any bill passed, no matter the constitutionality of it.

    Between the defense of marriage act earlier today and this, I am just so disgusted with the whole lot of them.

    With the betamax decision, it was ruled that it is ok to make personal copies of tv shows. It is logical that the same could be said of recorders of CDs to MP3s or (preferably) OGG or FLAC.

    So now Hatch comes up with a bill that would do nothing but tie up the courts (after causing
  • How are people supposed to create copyrighted works in the first place?

  • Orrin Hatch really is so deep in the **AA's pockets (although it must be hard to kiss their asses with his head lodged firmly up his own...) that he really goes far too far with these "copyright protection" bills.

    A bill of this nature would destroy innovation and understanding in many areas, such as the previously quoted example of a college professor discussing the use of the current protection on audio CDs. It is also so broad that it could be used in many malicious cases, to the same or even greater ex

    • Orrin Hatch really is so deep in the **AA's pockets[...]

      What I haven't figured out is how the heck these people (if you can call them that) can claim to be representing THEIR constituents with bills like this. California legislators (especially those in Southern California districts) I can understand, and maybe some of the New York ones...but as far as I can tell, Utah is about as dependent on Big Media for their economy as South Carolina (i.e. Fritz Hollings) is...This particular senator's wild-eyed bers

  • Do something about it! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by GeorgeH ( 5469 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:15PM (#9774956) Homepage Journal
    You can email your senators [eff.org] or fax your senators [savetheipod.com] and tell them to wise up.

    Or you can sit around and post comments on Slashdot that no one with the power to change things will ever read.
  • From the article:

    "We keep asking, 'What's the rush?' It's not clear that everything has to be wrapped up in the summer of 2004."

    Well given that Bush & Co. are going to be given the boot in Fall, I think we've discovered the real reason why all this needs to be wrapped up in Summer.

  • Before the complaining gets too bad (Score:5, Insightful)

    by techiemac ( 118313 ) <techiemac@NOspAm.yahoo.com> on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:15PM (#9774960)
    Before everyone invests a lot of energy posting with the usual "this sucks" and "In Soviet Russia" quote (I bet they will all follow my post now that I said that :) ), those of us that are Americans need to exercise our rights. Often your Congressman/woman and Senator will have "town meetings" when they are in your state. Go to these! Even if there isn't a hot topic at the time (there always is with technology), we, as a Slashdot community, have the oppertunity to provide and gather valuable insight and let our voices be heard. Do you wonder why Medicare, Social Security, etc is always such a hot topic in elections? Well most of the people that I see at these meetings are elderly.

    There are very few people under the age of 50 there and as a result, our elected officials only get a small piece of the story. Often bad bills make it through because people spend too much time complaining to their friends and not enough time educating the government. Most of the people that I have met in that line of work are not malicous with these bills, they just simply have a skewed view given to them by some lobbyist.

    It is up to us, the people, to educate on the potential ramifications of these poorly written bills. We simply cannot assume that Senator X sits in his office and rebuilds his Linux Kernal all day. These men and women work on running this country and not on running their computers (though some of them do have a techie streak in them).

    The best advice here is to do what the article says. Everyone set as their first task tommorow afternoon (I belive Senate is in session until mid afternoon tommorow, you can check on senate.gov), before the ADHD kicks in ;), to call your Senator AND Congressman. Be polite, address them properly (though you will probably only speak to one of their office staff members), and explain the situation in terms the general public can understand (none of "Well it contains and A to D converter and if you stream an analog signal in then..."). Often you will find your Senator and Congressman/woman to be very rational and understanding of the situation.

    Good Luck!

  • Well really, isn't that what happens in the end? In the end, the only thing that is safe to own is an object made entirely of atoms, or to take your entertainment directly converted to analog forms like light and sound, as (so far) we cannot duplicate atoms, pressure waves or electromagnetic radiation exactly or easily. Whereas we can easily and almost infinitely duplicate the pattern of electrons in a circuit (computer RAM or internet packets) or the patterns of magnetic domains strewn across a surface (ha

  • I don't think this bill goes far enough! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mikeophile ( 647318 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:15PM (#9774965)
    We can't be content with merely banning devices that can illegally copy copyrighted material.

    We need to ban any device that can potentially play illegal media!

    No child is safe while televisions and music players exist which could possibly corrupt their minds with illegally copied media!

    Ban all Media Players now!
  • "Say good bye to your VCR, MP3 players, CD/DVD burners, etc."

    First of all, Hatch proposes insane bills, that go nowhere, all the time. Second of all, as technologically inept as many senators/congressmen may be none of them, in their right mind, would let a bill like this pass. We're talking about illegalizing [is that a word?] technology that people, businesses, and the government use every day.

    Obviously we should not just sit back and scoff at the bill's content for its sheer insanity, but write y

  • Where's that icon come from? I don't think I've seen it in months, if not years. I give up- I spent 5 minutes, even looking through the page source, trying to figure out what the hell "CDA" means. Constitutional Delinquents of America?

    In any case, I for one welcome our constitutional overlords.

  • I've only read it once, but I don't see how it undermines the Betamax decision. I don't see how it would outlaw P2P, etc.

    If a technology has no substantial noninfringing use, it would be at risk, but it is already at risk under the current law.

    If a technology does have a substantial noninfringing use, then it seems to me that all the makers/sellers of that technology have to do is only promote the noninfringing use, refuse to provide tech support to people having trouble with infringing uses, and stuff

  • Duh... (Score:2)

    by isaac ( 2852 )
    "Copyright Bill could Stifle Innovation" - well, no shit! That's the point!

    Innovation is what's destroying the business models of the MPAA/RIAA, just like the affordable, mass-produced automobile destroyed the markets for carriage-builders and buggy-whip makers.

    A good deal of the political wrangling that goes on in the world centers around the legal protection of business models. This is true of trade policy, agricultural policy, copyright and patent policy, fiscal and monetary policy, defense policy, and

  • Logical extension = ammo makers sued for murders (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Engineer Andy ( 761400 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @08:22PM (#9775006) Journal
    If it is possible to prosecute for the illegal use of a product which has a legal and legitimate use, then surely by extension it will only be a matter of time before someone (unless they already have) sues bullet makers for providing the means to kill people.

    I know that guns don't kill people, it is people that kill people, but a VCR / CDR / generic recording device does have legitimate uses that don't violate copyright.

    I am glad that I don't live in the states. If this is the model of democracy and things being done for the people rather than for the oligarchs (read the corporations the politicians seem to owe their souls to) then I would hate to see a country really in need of liberation.

  • That's what they think... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gillbates ( 106458 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @09:21PM (#9775333) Homepage Journal

    It occurs to me, that as radical as this bill sounds, it is exactly what we need.

    Suppose that it was indeed illegal to merely manufacture a device that could be used for copyright infringement. Consider how society would react:

    • Cameras would be illegal because they could take pictures of copyrighted works.
    • Scanners and printers would be illegal because they could be used to reproduce photographs and copyrighted texts.
    • PC's would be illegal because they could be used for copyright infringement.
    • VCRs and tape recorders would likewise be illegal. So would video or audio recording equipment of any kind.
    • CD players would likewise be illegal - because the earphone jack could be used to pick up clear signal.
    • DVD players would be illegal because the output jack could be redirected to illegal copying equipment.
    • DVD burners would be illegal.
    • You could still buy a tv, except that it you would have to pay for the built-in DVD player as well. And you couldn't buy a model with a cable hookup unless you also signed a cable contract at the same time. And an antenna hookup wouldn't be allowed under any circumstances.

    To make a long story short, people would simply stop consuming digital media. Instead, they'd get out and socialize, or play sports, etc... instead of sitting at home in front of a computer or television. This bill would radically alter the spending habits of the American consumer, destroying the entertainment industry in the process:

    • About 30% of the MPAA member company profits are from DVD rentals. They could kiss that 30% goodbye.
    • The RIAA would likewise be affected - even moreso; who would buy a CD when there are no CD players? Instead, we'd just listen to the radio - the RIAA would suffer about a 85 - 95% decrease in revenue (Only the songwriters get paid for airtime).

    I gaurantee this wouldn't last five years before it would be overturned.

    What the RIAA and MPAA don't realize is that a substantial part of the value of a CD or DVD is the ability to 1.) make a backup copy, and 2.) mix MP3 tracks for mix CD's. Without this, there's not much point - I can simply listen to the songs on the radio and never bother to buy the CD. If this law actually passed, the dearth of technology improvements would actually drive the MPAA and RIAA out of business - who will buy a CD when electronics makers no longer make CD players for fear of legal liability? Who will make a DVD player when you could be sued for doing so?

  • Not only electronic devices (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Maljin Jolt ( 746064 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @09:41PM (#9775483) Journal
    But a paper and ink will be illegal too under this bill, by definition.

    I still remember the times, when in deep communism it was illegal to own a private or non-registered typing machine (or is it typewriter in english?). At more relaxed times later, the same rule was about photo-copiers.

    So many blacklisted books were copied hand-written. You can't imagine what a breaktrough in totalitarian regime mind control was made with early 8-bit computers with dot-matrix printers.

    It seems, America is suddenly jumping backwards some 60 years of world political culture. What I cannot understand is which economy motives are driving such trend.

  • and we're supposed to pressure Congress because? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by alizard ( 107678 ) <alizard&ecis,com> on Thursday July 22, 2004 @09:54PM (#9775578) Homepage
    If our technology companies can't be bothered to spend the money on politicians required to cover their own asses with respect to the ability to design consumer products in America without getting them approved by Hollywood, I'm not quite sure why we should do anything about this.

    High-tech industry seem to get what it wants on H1B/L1, R&D tax credits, unrestricted outsourcing. They've learned their lesson about paying off Congress. How do you think DOJ was persuaded to back off MS after they were declared guilty?

    Why did DMCA pass? Our technology industry just doesn't care. Why aren't technology industries trying to stop this?

    The only recent example of a united tech industry not getting what they want was the P2P bill, and IMHO, the only reason why they didn't get it stopped was that they didn't care enough to play hardball.

    People forget that the net gross revenue of the Hollywood cartel combined would be considered a roundoff error with respect to what the high-tech sector of the economy pulls in. Why do high-tech industries let themselves be the dog in the "wag the dog" scenario? Presumably, they're still hypnotized by visions of infinite future profits driven by complete customer access to all Hollywood's content (unlikely) over universal broadband (even more unlikely) with the happy customers happy to pay whatever is asked for pay-per-view/listen for content they are no longer allowed to own.

    Why hasn't the high-tech user community organized a mass action PAC along the lines of the NRA/AARP model to get what we want?

    None of us who actually has the money to start one gives a fuck. Losing on this sort of thing is just another excuse to "save money" by offshore R&D using the excuse "Sorry, but we can't employ Americans in America to do R&D, you know how much paperwork Hollywood requires to get our products approved."

    The people who've benefited from the efforts and purchases of our community are not interested in giving back, they just want to strip-mine what they can of value from us before going on to other labor/consumer markets.

    There's no useful political leadership in this area, i.e. nobody willing to buy politicians to protect our freedom to create technology, and the odds that any will develop are slim to none.

    There aren't even people we can vote for to get this sort of thing stopped. This measure has bi-partisan support, just like the DMCA had.

    The only solutions to this problem at this point are individual ones. If you want to innovate and you live in America, find a nation more friendly to innovation. That's what I'm trying to figure out how to afford to do.

    In a few years, the really cool consumer products aren't going to be coming from America anymore, and there's a good chance that they either won't be sold here or will only be available via black market.

    "Citizens always get the kind of local government they deserve."
    E.E."Doc" Smith

  • I didn't read the article (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MyDixieWrecked ( 548719 ) on Thursday July 22, 2004 @10:08PM (#9775662) Homepage Journal
    ...since I'm lazy, but...

    will hold technology companies liable for supplying devices or software that can be used to illegally copy music, videos, software, etc.

    doesn't that also include harddrives, digital cameras (think smartmedia card, memorystick, etc), computers, cell phones, notebooks (can write down song lyrics), pens, pencils, markers, knives (can carve copies of pictures), film, eyeballs, ears, brains, humans, etc, etc, etc??!?!?!?!

    I don't see any way of enforcing this or even wording it so that it would be posible and not infringe on our everyday rights. Not only do I not see any way of doing this, I don't want people to even try.

    i propose a mass suicide if the world gets that restrictive. A world that restrictive is not worth living in. A world that restrictive is worse than slavery. We're nearing that, now, with all this RIAA/MPAA bullshit.

    I understand the need to protect what's yours, but I believe it's starting to be taken too far.

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