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Patents Government Microsoft The Courts News

HP Memo Predicts MS Patent Attacks on Open Source 330

Roblimo writes "A two-year-old internal HP memo has just surfaced that talks about how 'Microsoft could attack Open Source Software for patent infringements against OEMs, Linux distributors, and least likely open source developers. They are specifically upset about Samba, Apache and Sendmail.' NewsForge has the story, including the memo's full text, a response from Eben Moglen (who says the memo's author misinterprets part of the GPL), and a statement from HP saying they love open source, really they do, even though 'Microsoft continues to be one of HP's strongest partners.'"
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HP Memo Predicts MS Patent Attacks on Open Source

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  • by joeldg ( 518249 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:00PM (#9743647) Homepage
    so that would explain the 26,000 patents that MS has been busy filing to lock down everything in the world.

    ahhh..

    world domination..
    never would have thought MS would stoop so low..

    • by rokzy ( 687636 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:05PM (#9743690)
      yes, I remember relatively recently MS patenting [slashdot.org] their innovation of a screen pager system allowing easy use of multiple desktops despite it being in linux for years and Windows for er... never.
    • by Lifix ( 791281 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:10PM (#9743740) Homepage
      Microsoft's patents on the start bar configuration, logos and other interface technology have made it very difficult to develop competitive operating systems, or even for students to develop operating systems of their own.
      • Microsoft's patents on the start bar configuration, logos and other interface technology have made it very difficult to develop competitive operating systems, or even for students to develop operating systems of their own.

        Well, I can see why that got modded as funny. Since when was a GUI an essential part of an operating system? It's at best a layer on top, and if you haven't sufficiently abstracted the API that you can't easily change either to a different GUI or to a completely different user interact

    • M.O.O. (Score:5, Funny)

      by mblase ( 200735 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:14PM (#9743771)
      so that would explain the 26,000 patents that MS has been busy filing to lock down everything in the world

      What, you thought they were going to donate them to the Vatican or something?
    • by burnin1965 ( 535071 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:33PM (#9743932) Homepage
      MS is doing alot more [legalmediagroup.com] than just filing patents. They are making other preparations as well. The SCO suit was just a litmus test.

      burnin
  • Lots of Qualifiers (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Pave Low ( 566880 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:01PM (#9743657) Journal
    A
    two-year-old internal HP memo has just surfaced that talks about how 'Microsoft could attack Open Source Software for patent infringements against

    This kind of fluff makes front page news? Anybody COULD do anything. Why don't you report on it when MS does? In the meantime, isn't there better stuff to report, like real news?

  • by Bold Marauder ( 673130 ) <boldmarauder&gmail,com> on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:02PM (#9743670) Homepage
    But what people constantly forget is that america is not the world. Even if MS manages to lock down Linux and OSS development here in the United States, that does not necessarily stop the rest of the world from pulling ahead of US.

    That is, of course, assuming that IBM doesn't decide to stand up to MS and pull a few patent tricks of their own.
  • Prior Art (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Come on, Microsoft. Attack with that shit, and we fight back with prior art. No contest. End of story.
    • Re:Prior Art (Score:5, Insightful)

      by nacturation ( 646836 ) <nacturation AT gmail DOT com> on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:08PM (#9743717) Journal
      Come on, Microsoft. Attack with that shit, and we fight back with prior art. No contest. End of story.

      Microsoft has a $50 billion war chest with which to fight patents in court. Who's going to pay for the lawyers who will be defending the open source projects?
      • represent yourself, or can't you get free state lawyers?

        you don't need a law degree to say "here's the prior art, I rest my case"
        • Re:Prior Art (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Guspaz ( 556486 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:23PM (#9743856)
          Actually, no, you can't get "free state lawyers", that's only for CRIMINAL trials, not civil stuff.

          And if you tried to go up against Microsoft without a law degree, no matter how "right" you are, you'd get destroyed.
      • Easy (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Novell
        IBM
        Redhat
        ILM
        Google
        Oracle
        etc.

        Any company that contributes to or heavily relies on open source.
      • The same people who are willing to defend AutoZone and the other victims of SCO.

        Big business uses Linux without having to pay for it in the way they have to pay for Windows. They've got a lot to lose if Linux suddenly is a cause to pay back royalties... so trust me, the money will come out of the woodwork.
  • by oostevo ( 736441 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:04PM (#9743681) Homepage
    This should go without saying, but, still ...

    "They are specifically upset about Samba, Apache and Sendmail." Hmm ... perhaps becasue Samba, Apache, and Sendmail are better constructed than their Microsoft counterparts?

    • Apache and sendmail yes. Samba however is a festering pile of shit that is based on an even bigger festering pile of shit.
      • by Master of Transhuman ( 597628 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:22PM (#9743846) Homepage
        Well, in defense of Samba, if you're going to interoperate with a "festering pile of shit", you pretty much are going to come away smelling a bit.

        I mean, the point of Samba is interoperability, right? So what else can they do? Invent a new method? Well, okay, cool, but how does that solve their core reason for existence which is interoperability? Whatever they do has to work with Windows servers or what's the point?

        If it's shit, it's MS's fault (which I note you agree with.)

    • Both Apache and Sendmail predate similar offerings from Microsoft. If they are able to castrate both of these fine products via the legal system, I will help form the armed revolt myself.

      This is not about cost-free software; it's about the ability of garage coders to continue to code freely.

    • Even better, subject to the terms and conditions of their individual licenses, they are free to use each of those packages if they wish.

      Oh, and how the hell could they be upset about sendmail? It predates DOS 5 for cryin' out loud!

      Ha! No! Sendmail (proper) [wikipedia.org] even predates DOS 3.0 [f9.co.uk]!

      Dorks... makes me think the whole thing is a hoax.
  • by H8X55 ( 650339 )
    From the article: Demonstrating unwavering commitment to meet the needs of its customers, HP was the first major Linux vendor to offer indemnification protection against SCO-related lawsuits, thus enabling HP's customers to continue their Linux deployment plans with confidence. Elizabeth Phillips - HP spokesperson.

    Oh yeah, i'd almost forgot about SCO. What's Darl up to these days? I love how HP jumps on the pro open source bandwagon by reminding everyone how they were the first to scoff at SCO.
    • SCO is in big trouble, that's what they're up to.

      According to GrokLaw, their latest missive to the court basically says, "Copyright problems? What copyright problems? We never said IBM gave illegal stuff to Linux! We just said it was a contract dispute! And, oh, by the way, to get some evidence of that (because we don't have any right now), we need to look at all of IBM source code going back to 1989."

      The judge is going to poop or go blind.

      I'd say the case is very close to summary judgement in IBM's
  • Two years old and we're just now seeing it.

    Gotta wonder what they are saying now. Think about the original Halloween documents. Those'll be six years old soon. Think how much Linux has improved since then. I'm sure Microsoft's internal memos are lot more interesting now. (Probably something along the lines of oh shit...oh shit...oh shit) Wow, to be a fly on the wall of Ballmer's office...

  • by Evil MarNuke ( 209527 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:05PM (#9743696) Homepage
    Only Microsoft could be up set by sendmail use of patent pending security holes.
  • Just so they know. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dmaxwell ( 43234 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:09PM (#9743724)
    I and millions of other developers and sysadmins have a looooooooooooooooonnnggg memory. If you MS decide to do this, we will do everything we can to make it cost you. You would be well advised to compete on the merits of your products and services. FOSS software being as large as it is today is largely a reaction to customers and developers being sick and tired of being bullied and treated like cash cows. More bullying can only help you in the short term. Pissing off your customers like a version of SCO on steriods will only assure your slow death.

    If I absolutely positively have no choice but to run all proprietary software on all proprietary platforms (Which is a situation I won't tolerate. You can buy senators till the cows come home. I still won't tolerate it.), I will be damn sure my dollars go to your most credible competitors.

    Do yourselves some favors. Make products people actually want without sleazy lock-in tactics and start diversifying. Your products are rapidly becoming a continuous cost center to those who use them. Any sane business will try to allievate this. No amount of lawyers will prevent it.
    • by LS ( 57954 )
      Umm, Microsoft already does this, and you already mentioned it: SCO is (was) a sock-puppet for Microsoft. They received a large indirect cash infusion from MS to continue with their litiginous ways. Microsoft already understands the PR aspect of this. If they act on it, it will be through 3rd parties, just as the US works through 3rd world contries.

      LS
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Because patents serve a useful purpose. Most folks weren't upset until companies started using submarine patents, or patents on things that clearly had prior art. It's the abuse of the system that is the problem.
    • by GoofyBoy ( 44399 )
      >If you MS decide to do this, we will do everything we can to make it cost you.

      Create insecure, buggy products - thats ok.
      Proven illegal monoploy - thats ok.
      Spread FUD about OpenSource TOC/quality - thats ok.
      Bully HW vendors to sell your product regardless if I chose buy it or not - thats ok.

      Launch a patent-legal battle, which you have no clue what its basis is - You and a million (yes, 1 million) of your close buddies suddenly get all excited.

      And this is Insightful?
  • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) * on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:12PM (#9743750)
    HP saying they love open source, really they do, even though 'Microsoft continues to be one of HP's strongest partners.'"

    The fact that Microsoft partners with HP doesn't diminish it like for Open Source. HP is mostly hardware company and they want to sell their hardware to everyone. If the customer likes open source then there product will work on Open Source if their customer like Windows then their product will work on windows.

    HP Has the recourses to be committed to Open Source and to Microsoft. The same with IBM, IBM actively competes with Microsoft and they generally don't like Microsoft but Microsoft is still one of IBMs biggest partners.
    • Conversely, Microsoft also has to realize that if they were to shun big names like HP and IBM in the slightest way, they could get throttled...
      What'd happen if the hardware to go with Linux suddenly because cheaper than hardware that supports Windows? Would anybody write a free non-official driver for Windows? I think not...

      Microsoft's got to partner to players with both sides of the ball... there still are companies big enough to give them headaches otherwise.
    • Actually the whole problem is that it is black and white, because in the "eyes of the internet" there is no difference between free speech content and say copyright content. You either half to attempt to manage controll over all of it, or none of it.

      In every industry, in every sector - there are emerging two groups. One that want's to secure content controll in one form or another, and the other who doesn't want the burdon of imposing it. The simple fact is that the forces pulling them apart are far gre

    • It's not such a happy old world. Sure HP is a hardware company but being a partner with MSFT means some dire things for any OS or Software company trying to work with HP.

      HP slips out a Linux laptop. MSFT stomps on it behind the scense, HP wants to put Linux in its sales material. MSFT stomps on it.

      Sometimes HP gets its way but mostly MSFT hinders competitors behind the scenes in ways Linux or Netscape or... never do against MSFT.

      It was maybe 4 years ago I called Dell asking if I could get a Linux lap
  • Samba... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:15PM (#9743776)
    Didn't Digital Equipment Corporation invent SMB and first deliver it through Pathworks?

  • by jmt9581 ( 554192 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:15PM (#9743780) Homepage
    Hah! I use NFS [sourceforge.net], thttpd [acme.com] and Postfix! [postfix.org].

    Your move Bill.

    :P

  • MS and Law (Score:2, Insightful)

    This memo is a bit old to take it seriously, but looking at the OSS-Attack as a whole, I wonder if OSS community has enough resources to win the battle?

    It's all good to talk about prior art, this and that, but please remember to destroy a competitor, you don't necessarily have to win the lawsuit, sometimes you just need to be resourceful enough to drag on and throw money at the case.

    It's like poker games, you might have the best cards but if you don't have enough money to call and raise, how many times ca
    • Only they have a chance to win in the 'legal poker' game.

      Everyone else would either be forced to fold or be bought outright and silenced.. Regardless of how good a hand they may have...
  • What about IBM? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AstroDrabb ( 534369 ) * on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:18PM (#9743799)
    I wonder if IBM have a few 1,000 patents they could scare MS with. All they need to say is if you use your patents against OSS/Linux, we will use ours against you.

    One other thought occured to me. That memo stated that MS could target HP, Intel and other "partners". It must really suck to be an MS "partner". You do what they tell you and you can have some of the extra cash that falls down. Step out of line once and you can be squashed. Maybe that is why Dell is low key with their (small) Linux offerings.

    • Re:What about IBM? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by ErikTheRed ( 162431 )
      The question is, what kind of cross-licensing agreement(s) does IBM have with MS? Many large tech companies cross-license their entire portfolios in order to avoid patent litigation wars.
    • Yep, Microsoft partners with other companies like the mafia partners with your friendly neighborhood drug dealer. Given that every single company that has ever entered into any kind of major deal with Microsoft has eventually ended up getting screwed, you'd think that the rest of the tech world would have realized this a long time ago.
    • Becareful relying on IBM. They're a tentative ally IMHO. They're an ally so long as their interests are the same as the Linux communties. If the shit hits the fan, then their allegiance will be to their stock holders, and they will do what is best for them.
    • Re:What about IBM? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by bogie ( 31020 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:45PM (#9744029) Journal
      ". That memo stated that MS could target HP, Intel and other "partners". It must really suck to be an MS "partner". You do what they tell you and you can have some of the extra cash that falls down. Step out of line once and you can be squashed."

      Yep and its doesn't matter how big you are. As big as Intel was they had to back down when Microsoft threatened them.
      http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,1 4658,00 .html

      Then again what company didn't Microsoft threaten in the 90's?
    • Patent hellstorm (Score:3, Interesting)

      I thought that about IBM, and deeper... It seems to the tech industry patent situation is a powder keg just waiting for a match. Every major company which has been in the field for awhile has enough critical patents to utterly strangle everyone else. If real patent war broke out, the tech industry would be smashed back to the level of ENIAC. Thus, patents are like thermonukes: everybody wants them, everybody hopes never to use them.

      This is, I think, a part of the reason IBM is not wielding its patent portf
  • by ecalkin ( 468811 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:20PM (#9743824)
    The memo is two years old. ok. And it mentions several softwares that it's unhappy with and want's to do something about.
    What's happened in two years? Microsoft has lost (/is losing) the web server market. Samba has cost them revenue. And Sendmail? MS is not competing well. They haven't turned the ship around and it's heading for the rocks. ok, it's overly dramatic. But I believe that Microsoft is looking at some very unpleasant future pictures and looking at *drastic* actions.
    Why did this memo pop up now? Maybe MS is getting desparate? big legal actions against OS operations would perhaps shut them down (or slow them down) at a cost tons of ill will. Which is why I don't think it's happened yet. This might be an easier out for MS than fixing it's problems.

    eric
  • Apache? Sendmail? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mike Markley ( 9536 ) <madhack&madhack,com> on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:22PM (#9743839)
    Seems to me that Apache and Sendmail are pretty likely to have prior art on anything important that also happens to be implemented on IIS or Exchange, given that both were fairly entrenched at a time when Microsoft still considered the Internet to be a passing fad. I suppose they may have bought some patents somewhere, but it still seems like a pretty remote chance.

    Not only that, but those two aren't even licensed under the GPL, which is ostensibly the target here.

    This all sounds vaguely like something this Gary Campbell fellow pulled out of his ass...
    • This all sounds vaguely like something this Gary Campbell fellow pulled out of his ass...

      I was thinking much the same thing. More than something which has been pulled out of Gary Campbell's ass, I think that it's something he pulled out of his ass in order to increase his influence. Look at what he writes in the memo: "we need an HP-wide committee", "we need an HP-wide committee", "Intel went radio silent on Linux in March; maybe MS got to them then", "And did I mention that we need an HP wide committee t

  • by the_rajah ( 749499 ) * on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:29PM (#9743901) Homepage
    who has the most patents and money to ram them down everyone else's throat instead of who has the best product. Our whole system of Intellectual Property needs a serious rethinking and revision. The paradigm is broken. Litigiousness is choking innovation instead of encouraging it. Let's get behind organizations like Pubpat [pubpat.org] and Electronic Frontier Foundation [eff.org] to move forward.

    "Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
  • The authors can always re-release it under another license, or the FSF can release a "GPL 3" that avoids whatever legal trickery they pull... and since GPL software almost always includes a clause including "any later versions" they'll be covered.
  • by RyanFenton ( 230700 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:39PM (#9743984)

    I've been looking at Office 2003's "Information Rights Management", which uses Windows Server 2003 as a key-keeper, along with .net Passport to prevent various kinds of spoofing. It's an interesting setup - but there's next to no deep independant analysis of the process out in public anywhere, compared to previous MS encryption schemes I've looked at.

    I really get the sense that people are scared of being the first to get hurt for publishing holes they've found in the system, rather than because the standards themselves are in flux.

    It's a little creepy - on one side, you get people saying why DRM is wrong in so many ways, and should be avoided, but not allowing themselves to actually look at the system. On the other side, you've got people praising the idea with lavish strings of superlatives, saying that governments should use it [zdnet.com.au] amongst other things - it would be hard for a businessman to say anything other than Microsoft is fellow businessmen, and the other guys are crazy folks who don't know what they're talking about.

    The FUD is working - the smart ones are staying quiet, and the dumb ones are making the rest look like they're all crazy.

    Ryan Fenton
  • by Eric_Cartman_South_P ( 594330 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:42PM (#9744005)
    MS: Open Source! Prepare to die!
    IBM: *SMACK*
    MS: Fuck, that hurts.
    Open Source: W0ot! Thanks IBM!
    • by 0x0d0a ( 568518 ) on Tuesday July 20, 2004 @12:32AM (#9745330) Journal
      "Peace, Love, Linux" -- IBM

      As regards IBM's "we're hip and open source" campaign:

      I mean, yes, it's all marketing in the end, and a bunch of people sitting in cubicles trying to figure out how to manipulate me, an open source coder, and people like me. But it's kind of like being manipulated by an attractive woman -- yes, you're being manipulated, but it's *enjoyable*. You don't *mind* it. Having enormous, cold companies pretend to be warm and fuzzy and rub up against you while purring makes you feel *happy*. You just can't help it.
  • by akudoi ( 568104 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:56PM (#9744103)
    Keep your friends close,
    Keep your enemies even closer.
  • Sendmail? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by labratuk ( 204918 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:56PM (#9744105)
    What problem can they have with sendmail?

    When sendmail was written, Microsoft were only just getting off the ground. And it hasn't changed much since Microsoft still thought the internet was a fad.
  • by rayd75 ( 258138 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @10:09PM (#9744225)
    This memo is two years old. One has to wonder if they've already taken the action HP anticipated. Taking a second look at the MS / SCO conspiracy theories with this memo in hand makes them seem that much more likely.
  • by Jaywalk ( 94910 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @10:12PM (#9744261) Homepage
    How many software patents will really stand up to thourough scrutiny as being something other than obvious extensions of prior art? Microsoft depends on its patents to arrange cross-licensing deals with other companies, but if they start down this road their patent portfolio and their profit margins will be rapidly depleted by a barrage of lawsuits challenging their patents.

    Worse still, the battle could put the whole question of software patents back on the table. If governments eliminate software patents, the entire portfolio goes poof.

    • The only reason anyone would want to take action on a patent in such a manner would be in order to draw attention to themselves (e.g. a patent pool peddling patents). There is nothing MS can gain by doing this, and they aren't going to shut anything or anyone down. It is more than likely to backfire on them.

      It's a cold war, and rogue nations would threaten to use the weapons (i.e. file a lawsuit to grab attention) - MS is a superpower, they are not going to push that button.

      It just won't happen. MS is too


    • You are correct, not many. However, that isn't the point of this pointless system. Getting a patent decalred invalid through prior art is a very, very expensive proposition. In fact, this slashdot story from last Friday [slashdot.org] points out that of the approx 7,000,000 existing patents, only 614 have been revoked, and only 3927 have had their claims narrowed.

      And MS has lots of money. They've spent some of it successfully and unsucessfully defending patent attacks against themselves. But, if they wanted to caus
  • wimps (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Trailer Trash ( 60756 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @10:14PM (#9744282) Homepage

    Even though we have short term protection, we need to lower our profile while still shipping products. We need to examine reducing our exposure on pre-loading Linux by off loading it to the channels exclusively.

    We will need to change how we donate software to the open source, probably the type of license we use, lower the profile of our opensource portal, etc.

    Basically, "we need to hope Microsoft doesn't see us." I'd love to see "We need to be prepared to stand up to them in court and kick their ass." HP has the money to do it. But this is pathetic.

  • by ausoleil ( 322752 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @10:31PM (#9744427) Homepage
    Seems like these days, about the only one making threats at Microsoft are Gates and Ballmer. The real work is done by proxy -- through SCO, which at this point in time looks like a faliure. Also at ADTI, which was an abysmal failure. Now, a two year old scare memo from HP. Why is it surfacing now? From whom did it come -- and what is their motivation to put out an ancient strategy memo? In the world of computing, two years is a lifetime.

    Putting my tinfoil-hat on, I seriously wonder if someone somehow at HP's dear partner Microsoft asked for a leak of this memo. It would certainly fit right in with the FUD-by-proxy strategy that Microsoft seems to be using to tide them over until their Next Big Big Big OS Release (tm).

    Still it is a chilling look at the tactics that those of us who have been in the industry a couple of decades have grown used to.

    Final thought: might this bode well for Apple?

  • by unoengborg ( 209251 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @11:10PM (#9744671) Homepage
    Software patents threatens all software development and innovation in all software industry not in only free software. Free software is however somewhat more vulnerable as it is impossible to solve patent issues by licence fees.

    The only option for free software would be to trade patents, but the problem is that few free sofware developers do patent their stuff. So there will be little to trade.

    Besides, how do we handle companies buying or seeking patents on technology without having any software business on ther own. Companies just sitting on patens waiting for some patented technology to become a taxable hit. Not even companies like IBM would be able to fight them by using their enormeous list of patents as a weapon, as they could if the enemy was an ordinary software producein company.

    • The only option for free software would be to trade patents, but the problem is that few free sofware developers do patent their stuff. So there will be little to trade.

      I agree. Furthermore, much of the real "OSS economy" operates without money being involved, and thus it would be difficult to fund patent production.

      It *would* potentially be possible, though it would make me a bit uncomfortable, due to the GPL bias, for a company to "cross patent" with the GPLed world. Basically, to say "you may use an
  • by konmaskisin ( 213498 ) on Tuesday July 20, 2004 @12:28AM (#9745306) Journal
    it won't work - even if they get the patent and try to shut down apache it will only help prove that MS is evil and that the patent and IPR regime is a fraudulent method of legalized theft supported by corrupt lawyers and politicos.

    I like the idea of MS openly acting like the evil scum suckers they really are, only once again out in public (with no proxies) and likely in court.

    they will reap the whirlwind
  • by iamacat ( 583406 ) on Tuesday July 20, 2004 @01:18AM (#9745597)
    Have some choice patents waiting if Microsoft interferes with their ability to use open source. It doesn't matter if MS has more, just one of the other guy's patents will stick and cover some major aspect of Windows MS can't easily work around. Look how much trouble browser plugins patent caused. Like titlebar on windows or something. It would be nicer if software patents were outlawed, just like patents on mathematic formulas. But in the meantime, guaranteed mutual destruction counts for something.
  • by oob ( 131174 ) on Tuesday July 20, 2004 @01:43AM (#9745719)
    On behalf of my employer, I'm preparing a matrix to compare the relative strengths and weaknesses of the hardware vendors that have tendered a quote for my project.

    While this internal HP memo is not the only factor leading to this, I included the following statement to the notes area of the section concerning Hewlett Packard;

    Commitment to our platform of choice is questionable

    Given that my employer places an emphasis on vendor support, I expect that statement to weigh heavily against HP in our deliberations.

    There are many vendors of commodity hardware and the differentiator for many organisations is the level of support. I think HP has raised reasonable doubts about their level of commitment to support for a platform that is increasingly prevalent in the industry and that will cost them business.
  • by mclove ( 266201 ) on Tuesday July 20, 2004 @01:48AM (#9745734)
    Who cares if Microsoft goes after OSS in the US? They can really only sue American companies in American courts. They'll have an uphill battle in Europe and god help them if they even attempt it in China. They'll have a tough time suing individual developers (not that it's impossible, but it certainly won't be easy, and unlike the RIAA they're likely to find a lot of the defndands won't settle quickly), so most of the US based OSS contributors can continue their work and Linus et al can simply move back to Europe if need be. And even Microsoft can't afford to start suing every company that uses Linux or Apache - they might be able to afford the lawyers but even the most MS-friendly IT department is going to have a tough time convincing a CEO to buy millions of dollars worth of software from a company that's presently suing them.

    So essentially Red Hat and a few other companies go out of business and the OSS community otherwise goes on unhindered. At worst, public adoption of Linux slows a bit and already market-dominating products like Apache and sendmail continue on unabated. Microsoft's lawsuits would do very little damge and utterly destroy their public image.

    They're hoarding patents to protect themselves against other patent-hoarding companies; they're not dumb enough to try to use them against OSS. This is just plain and simple FUD.
  • by timmarhy ( 659436 ) on Tuesday July 20, 2004 @03:14AM (#9746147)
    "They are specifically upset about Samba, Apache and Sendmail." they are upset because these 3 together have the ability to keep MS out of the server arena entirely. the 3 main services your going to want to run on any network are likely to be web, email and file sharing.
  • by BookRead ( 610258 ) on Tuesday July 20, 2004 @08:38AM (#9747414)
    Microsoft is constitutionally incapable of understanding, both socially and legally, the nature of FOSS. Bill Gates genius was to commoditize software at a time when it was either totally free and commercially exploitable (via software exchanges based in universities) or pretty much custom or vertically oriented.

    The GPL and other Open Source licenses cuts off his ability to commercially exploit FOSS and that ruins the MS business model. It IS the long term threat and they'll battle against it until they're a mere shell of their current selves.

    If the GPL had an inherent weakness it would probably be exposed by now. RMS' genius was understanding how to cut off the commercial exploitation of free software. SCO's attacks have been useful in helping create an understanding of how to defend ourselves more effectively by documenting the history more carefully. In my opinion, "intellectual property" is kind of oxymoronic in the end. There might be temporary commercial advantages in it but, as a previous poster suggested, it doesn't work well in the long run against non-commercial entities without a product.

I have hardly ever known a mathematician who was capable of reasoning. -- Plato

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