AutoZone Responds To SCO 275
loftis writes "Groklaw is reporting that AutoZone has responded to The SCO Group's Lawsuit. Here is a link to the Groklaw community's discussion where you can find all the filings in raw form. Here is a text copy of the filing without amendments. AutoZone has pretty much said to the court, SCO has to prove 1) they own the code, and 2) that Linux infringes. Since SCO is litigating these two issues in other cases, they ought to wait until those questions are answered. Or, they say, 'If we cannot wait, we need SCO to tell us what we are infringing upon with specificity.' Since we know how SCO will answer the second question, and the court likely will too, since they amended the filings from SCO v IBM and SCO v RedHat and SCO v Novell, it seems to me (IANAL) that they should get to wait."
Isn't it obvious? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:3, Funny)
c'mon autozone, have a heart... (Score:2)
Message to SCO.... (Score:3, Funny)
Jesse (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Jesse (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Jesse (Score:2, Interesting)
--RJ
Re:Jesse (Score:3, Interesting)
Since I live near Athens Alabama where Frank and Jessie James were born (The Outlaws you refered to ) and near Huntsville where Frank and Jessie got started in their trouble making I also know a little bit about them. I know he died in Mo. (Jessie James bandit) I know that the brothers lived for some time in Nashville, Tn. I also know I bought carpet in 1985 from a "James Carpets" which was run by a "Jessie James" who was a relative of the famous guy and this Jessie had a brother named Frank.
His decendan
Re:Jesse (Score:3, Interesting)
The current vehicle customizer is a direct descendent of the *nephew* of the old Jesse James. But it makes for mo bettah TeeVee for him to be a direct, criminal bad boy. Ooh, The Drama! (/me clasps hands together)
Re:Jesse (Score:4, Funny)
One of these things is not like the other.
One of these things does not belong.
Answer: Jesse James. He's the only one worth voting for!
Ok.. (Score:5, Interesting)
That's a really cool idea. (Score:5, Interesting)
Not quite (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Not quite (Score:2)
Re:That's a really cool idea. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Ok.. (Score:4, Funny)
But how would it be measured? (Score:2)
when will we see proof? (Score:4, Interesting)
CVB
puddin' (Score:3, Insightful)
A lot of people scoff at the legal system, I don't think companies would avoid a product because of one companies actions. Now, if microsoft gives similar advances to, say, ten more companies -and they decide to sue, then we got a problem.
IANAL, but I don't see SCO, alone, damagin
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:2, Insightful)
Isn't this SCO and their funders primary goal?
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not quite. If you follow the news regarding SCO, BayStar wanted to pull their investment because they didn't think SCO was investing enough resources in the IP lawsuits, and wanted them to all but entirely ditch their Unix "business." Unless they really are being paid by companies with vested interests in Linux's demise, like Microsoft, they want people to use Linux; that's more people to sue.
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, the longer this drags out, the more SCO spends in legal fees, and the quicker their ultimate financial demise takes place.
With SCO now fighting on multiple fronts, they are likely to run out of cash before anything but the IBM suit, gets to court. And that suit will eat them alive.
As for companies afraid to use Linux due to SCO's legal shenanigans, I haven't encountered any - have you?! That is surely the worst news for SCO to hear, as their tactic is in essence, legal terrorism.
The problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course SCO is going to die; the Canopy Group and MS are using SCO as the corporate equivilent of a human shield. You don't care whether your human shield survives.
Re:The problem (Score:2)
Re:The problem (Score:2)
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:2)
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:5, Insightful)
The truth is coming to light (thanks in large part to Groklaw) even outside the geek community.
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:3, Insightful)
So if you have software copyrights, I can claim I didn't steal your code, just your ideas!?! (I'm not talking
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:2)
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:5, Informative)
If the ideas in your software are original enough that you need to worry about them being copied, then you should apply for a patent.
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:2)
If that's the case, then... wow, we have to throw away EVERYTHING WE HAVE EVER DONE. Hey! Isn't that a linked list there? That was someone else's idea!
No, of course that's not the case. Ideas can only be protected by trade secret and patents, patents supposedly only covering implementations of ideas.
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:3, Informative)
According to Copyright Law [copyright.gov]:
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:3, Insightful)
No, that's apparently what patents are for (JPEG, one-click, etc). Based on the way they're granting patents and the low bar for inventiveness, I could probably patent the sandwich.
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:2)
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:3, Insightful)
I would think the longer this drags on, the worse it is for SCO. They only have finite money (and some people already want that money back [informationweek.com]), eventualy they will be unable to finance continued litigation.
Linux, and OSS in general, does not seem to be suffering a significant (or even noticable) negative backlash [thewhir.com] from all of this, if anything it has been free publicity [globeandmail.com].
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:4, Interesting)
This actually brings up an interesting problem with the Linux development model.
Because the development group is a (relatively) rag tag bunch of people who send code in, there isn't really an organization than can countersue companies like SCO for defamation, slander and libel.
Which is what any normal company would be doing to SCO right now.
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:4, Interesting)
Class Action Lawsuits
Piss off enough people so everybody or at least a major perctage joins a Class Action lawsuit, you can get tons more cash. Hey who says you don't get paid for being an Open Source Developer. It is also a lot harder to hide from a Class Action Lawsuit, rather than againist one enemy
Class Action Lawsuits (Score:2)
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:3, Interesting)
Sure, we could try something like this with SCO, but keep in mind, they will probably be dead before such an approach could get off the ground, and, if not, they would most likely have very little money left to extract. I think the best approach is to let IBM et al. suck them dry and let the winds of time blow them away.
To me, the real question is: After SCO is drawn and quartered b
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:when will we see proof? (Score:4, Insightful)
used to waiting (Score:5, Funny)
Re:used to waiting (Score:3, Insightful)
Unlike their competition, advance auto parts...which sold me the wrong size of belts (twice) and also the incorrect set of spark plugs (once).
Of course, the average age of employees might have something to do with it. (advance = 17, autozone = 30)
Steven V.
Re:used to waiting (Score:2)
Thank god (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Thank god (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess SCO hasn't yet been able to verbalize what their complaint is other than that people are no longer buying their POS operating system.
Huh? (Score:4, Funny)
hide-this-SCO (Score:5, Funny)
me! me! (Score:5, Funny)
ask me! *raised hand*
"there are trillions even quadrillions of infringing lines in linux. all your atoms comprising our lines of code are belong to us. hence you clearly and specifically infringed on SCO's rights."
Sincerely,
Darryl
Re:me! me! (Score:2, Funny)
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In other news... (Score:2)
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
Ah, good point.I imagine their customers think "Linux" is some sort of disposable window cleaning towlet that keeps rain off their windshield!
Re:In other news... (Score:2)
Hmmm... Amazing... Well, at least one.
I use Autozone for some parts for our cars. I also use various other suppliers.
My wife and I have an early model 1965 Ford Mustang (made June 10th 1964) and a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I do a lot of the maintenance on the Jeep and all of it on the Mustang. Autozone is a useful place to buy bulbs and chemicals from. Otherwise I tend to use specialists or a local equivalent (open 24/7 and can be cheaper). I think the last thing I bought from Autozone was some paint stri
Re:In other news... (Score:3, Interesting)
Ah, good point.I imagine their customers think "Linux" is some sort of disposable window cleaning towlet that keeps rain off their windshield!
I know AutoZone doesn't seem like much of a Linux-centric company, but they actually host a LUG, Group of Linux Users, Memphis [golum.org] at their headquarters in Memphis, Tennessee. They have graciously let us use their facilities, including a nice con
Re:In other news... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:In other news... (Score:2, Interesting)
The most common form of communications between automotive enthusiasts are online forums, newsgroups and mail lists. I haven't taken a survey, but the use of Linux by members of those groups seems to be at least as high as it is in the general computer user population.
If you are on line much and use Linux, it is hard to not know about SCO
Re:In other news... (Score:2)
I would have thought that most geeks like to know how things work. I know that I do.
If you're not working on a computer, how many geeks do you think indulge in other kinds of work with their hands? I know I like working on our Mustang (made June 10th 1964) and the enjoyment I get from repairing something, or making something new is the same as the enjoyment I get from writing software.
Most of the contact I have with other people with mustangs is online.
I also enjoy cooking and baking but I'm not
They'll never bother the NRA (Score:4, Funny)
No shock and awe here... (Score:2, Insightful)
The Infringing Module (Score:5, Funny)
Okay, all together now... (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't care. Nope. Not even a little.
SCO has ceased to exist in my opinion. Based on the delay of AZ's response, I had assumed they to decided to pretend SCO doesn't exist, and to just ignore them.
Nope. (Places fingers in ears and slowly rocks back and forth chanting "blah blah blah i can't hear you blay blah blah" over and over)
The only interesting part of all of this? The amusing phrasing I've seen from the various briefs and filings and fnords and amendments and so on and so forth... "Hide the eight-ball"? I don't quite know the meaning of that in normal language, can someone elaborate on its specific legal-context meaning?
Re:Okay, all together now... (Score:5, Informative)
You obviously don't own a business that supports you and your family. If you did, you wouldn't take this so flippantly. SCO could care less if you're running you l33t gamerz box on Linux, so you have nothing to worry about. It definitely concerns those of us whose livelihoods depend on our computers.
Re:Okay, all together now... (Score:5, Informative)
However, there is no "stalemate" in pool, so your goal in hiding the eight-ball is to allow you (or force your opponent) to move your balls into better positions so that you might win.
Perfect analogy.
CV
Bad SCO!!! Give it Back!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Somebody needs to make SCO give the judge back his "Magic 8-Ball" so he can a "reliable and informed" judgement on these court cases. God forbid the judge use his legal expertise and exprerience to decide these cases on merit or lack thereof.
Personal Ads (Score:5, Funny)
Is it just me, or does IANAL sound like a code in the personal ads?
Re:Personal Ads (Score:2, Funny)
SCO's specific claim (Score:5, Funny)
Seven for IBM in their halls of stone,
Nine for SGI doomed to die,
One for the dark Darl on his dark throne
In the land of Utah where the shadows lie.
One IP to rule them all, one IP to find them,
One IP to sue them all and in the courtrooms bind them,
In the land of Utah where the shadows lie.
(Yes, this has also been posted once on Groklaw. No, this isn't a karma whore - I'm the guy who posted it there. And no, I don't necessarily think that SGI is doomed to die, though things haven't been looking good for them lately...)
Re:SCO's specific claim (Score:5, Funny)
You mean Apple (Score:2, Funny)
Re:You mean Apple (Score:2, Funny)
Ok, Slashdot.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Yeah, I've got karma to spare.
Re:Ok, Slashdot.. (Score:4, Informative)
BTW, if you go to the user preferences section and click on the "Homepage" tab you will note a rather large table that lets you exclude stories based on topic as well as other criteria. Check the box next to Caldera. That's the "old" name for the bunch of litiguous bastards known as The SCO Group. You can then stick your head back in the sand and stories about SCO will no longer interupt your reading of slashdot. Unless that is, due to a preponderence of apathy and ignorance, SCO happens to win in which case slashdot and a lot of the net as we know it will cease to exist. But don't worry. Some of us who do care will try to stay informed and keep that from happening.
Oh, and quit whining and try to figure stuff out for yourself sometime.
Re:Ok, Slashdot.. (Score:3, Informative)
Go to your preferences, choose not to show any stories with the "Caldera" icon.
Re:Ok, Slashdot.. (Score:2)
Re:Ok, Slashdot.. (Score:2)
All will be revealed at the proper time (Score:3, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, we know how SCO will answer (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean how they'll answer based on the IBM case?
SCO: "Your honor, in order to list the lines with specificity, we need a copy of AutoZone's customer database, of their parts blueprints, and of all source involved with moving away from any SCO products."
SCO Libraries or Linux kernel? (Score:3, Interesting)
But, AZ's response seems to imply that not even that was clear from SCO's claim. They don't even know if they are talking about the kernel, pieces from SCO's OS, applications, etc.
SCo's Fault Autozone Switched (Score:4, Insightful)
a weird theory.... (Score:2, Interesting)
1.) getting linux in the news so people know hear and talk about it, and
2.) Getting the GPL tested and legitimised in court, so that people who never knew about linux before hand will then think about actually implementing it in the future... in all seriousness a non-tech savy buisnessman would pro
Quit worrying about SCO (Score:5, Insightful)
If AutoZone wins this motion, anybody else SCO sues can just cite that, and their case will go in the queue after IBM/Novell/Red Hat. At that point, litigation against Linux users from SCO becomes an empty threat. You don't have to pay big legal fees to defend the case; you just have to have a lawyer file a motion citing AutoZone, and the case goes on hold for years, while three Fortune 1000 companies crush SCO in court.
There are some great lines in AutoZone's motion. "There is no reason for SCO to have been so obtuse in its pleading, unless SCO is intentionally trying to avoid identifying the nature and basis of its purported claims." "Rule 8 does not require the defendants in federal court lititgation to engage in such guessing games." "However, SCO's "hide-the-eight-ball" tactics in the IBM case leave AutoZone with little realistic belief that SCO will voluntarily identify the basis for its claims without this Court's intervention.".
Meanwhile, SCO stock is down to 7.05 today. There was a big runup last Thursday morning, probably due to SCO's stock buyback program. The overall effect is that the price is back to where it was a week ago. SCO is down about 60% since the beginning of the year. [yahoo.com]
Time is now against SCO. Nobody is going to pay them unless they win all those lawsuits. It looks like they'll run out of money first.
Something to think about: when SCO tanks, somebody will buy the "UNIX intellectual property". Who's likely to do that? Sun? Microsoft? Red Hat?
Endgame (Score:3, Interesting)
With that in mind, I would say the latest round of high profile lawsuits against both corporate and government bodies is the intentional beginning of the endgame. I think that the legal team orchestrating all of this has decided that it's time to fall on the sword and end it all. So they start a round of suits they know they cannot win and cannot survive so that they can finally call this thing to a close.
Obviously, there will never be any proof that this is what is happening. But the fact that the U.S. legal and financial systems allow this level of abuse is the saddest revelation of this whole affair.
Re:Silly Question... (Score:3, Informative)
I know, I know; it was probably a troll...
Re:Silly Question... (Score:3, Insightful)
In a nutshell, AutoZone rapidly migrated from an SCO UnixWare solution to a Linux solution, and SCO is convinced that AutoZone couldn't possibly have done so and must be using SCO IP to run their Linux operations.
Right - UnixWare Libraries possibly at issue (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Silly Question... (Score:2)
AutoZone used SCO. They converted to Linux (with SCO's help even), and SCO claims there's no way they could've done it without using SCO's IP.
Re:Yes you can profit from SCO's woes......... (Score:2)
Not litigation only (Score:2)
A protection racket model. You use our product and Rocko won't break your knees.
Re:Not litigation only (Score:2, Funny)
So if Groklaw's analysis is wrong, (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh, what's that you say? You don't have any actual rebuttal to anything Groklaw has said? You don't have any more idea about law than they do? You're bringing this up not because you take actual issue with anything Groklaw has said, but because by trashing Groklaw you get to appear snarky and clever?
Either contribute to t
Re:So if Groklaw's analysis is wrong, (Score:3, Insightful)
It's the same as messing with executive secretaries. Just because they're secretaries doesn't mean they don't know what's going on -- in some cases better that the execs they work for.
Re:Oh. I see. (Score:4, Informative)
Oh, sorry.
BTW, the setting is under the preferences link on the left side of the page once you log in. Its right under their award for "Best News Site" from OSDir so its easy to find. But of course, if you don't log in, you would never see it.
Re:Oh. I see. (Score:3, Insightful)
The value provided by Groklaw. (Score:5, Insightful)
As for PJs opinions, I believe the reason that they tend to be listened to and repeated are because they are (1) well argued and (2) usually argued in the context of specifically cited relevant law. If you disagree with an opinion stated by PJ and can show why the legal context she argues applies is incorrect, feel free to do so. This is how opinions work; PJs survive because no one has offered better counter-opinions.
Re:Oh. I see. (Score:5, Insightful)
She is, however, a paralegal. Doing legal research is her job, so I'd take her opinion over yours or Enderle's anyday. Note that I said opinion, if anyone wants legal advice, even PJ recommends you hire an attorney.
Re:We know you're not a lawyer! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Isn't it obvious by now... (Score:2)
"Helping their sales" ??!?!?!
They don't really sell anything, do they?
Last year, they made, what twenty thousand dollars of revenue on expendidures of something on the order of ten million dollars?
"It's all free publicity"? Huh? Yeah, and Michael Jackson is getting lots of "free publicity" right now for banging little boys. I don't see that "free publicity" helping his record sales, either.
-Steve
Re:What I would like to see is... (Score:3, Insightful)
SCO delenda est!!