Slashdot Log In
Utah Leads the Way Toward RFID Privacy Legislation
Posted by
michael
on Fri Feb 27, 2004 04:01 PM
from the good-for-something dept.
from the good-for-something dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Wired News reports that Utah's House of Representatives passed the first-ever RFID privacy bill this week, 47-23. Utah state Rep. David Hogue said that without laws to ensure consumer privacy, retailers will be tempted to match the data gathered by RFID readers with consumers' personal information. 'The RFID industry will carry the technology as far as they can,' said Hogue, sponsor of the Radio Frequency Identification Right to Know Act. 'Marketing people especially are going to love this kind of stuff.'"
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
Doubt it will last (Score:5, Insightful)
cool (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the way it should be, rather than trying to throw together a hack job after the tech has been around for a while.
Re:cool (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:cool (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm glad to see my Utah legislature taking time out of its busy schedule of banning gay marriage and getting us out of the UN to meddle in technology it doesn't even begin to understand. Gives me a real warm, fuzzy feeling all over.
Not that I wouldn't like to see some sane, well-considered legislation on the subject. But every year, they prove over the course of forty-five days that they're not capable of crafting legislation even remotely like that.
Parent
Sorry, but (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
hi. I'm Troy McClure (Score:5, Funny)
Bush's cronies... (Score:4, Interesting)
I mean who wants your retailer to know when you buy condoms or somethng equally personal. Really, technologically speaking, we are not far from the thought police at all.
Re:Bush's cronies... (Score:4, Insightful)
This is really dumb, the store knows when you buy personal items if they have a RFID tag or not. When you go to the counter and pay for the items, hey someone's gonna know! And it kind of tips people off when you carry them in your cart or basket. Also, if you use a CVS card or anything like that they keep track of what you buy and send you flyers and ads home based on that information.
We're not too far from the thought police at all? Where the hell did that come from? RFID tags can't read your mind, if you have one on your body no one's gonna be able to track you from a satellite, it doesn't transmit brain waves. You'd need a reader really close to the device anyway. Not like the CIA is gonna follow you around with a RFID tag reader, that'll defeat the purpose of having the tag installed secretly in the first place.
Parent
Re:Bush's cronies... (Score:5, Interesting)
One exception, though: Couple cam thru buying wine, condoms, KY, straight razors, rubbing alcohol (!!!), and nothing else. Had a funny look in their eyes... I don't know what they were up to, but the alcohol and razors STILL makes me shudder.
Parent
Re:Bush's cronies... (Score:5, Funny)
A friend of mine was participating in a scavenger hunt once. He went to the local Canadian Tire (basically a hardware store, for non-Canadians) with another friend, who happened to be female, and bought, among several things I can't recall, a box of condoms, a lot of Coke, a duck decoy, a for-emergency-use-only CO2 bicycle pump, and a hockey goalie mask.
The cashier gave them a very strange look as they left.
Parent
Re:Bush's cronies... (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps you have some condoms in your pocket. then every where there is a rfid rader, there is someone who knows what is in you pocket.
You go to the story to buy a couple of things, then suddenly the cart announces there is a sale on condoms. now everyone know you have condoms.
Or perhaps you hacve some mdication you would rather someone didn't know about?
Walk into an interview, and the company know you take diabetis medication. well, better hire someone else because of the insurance risk.
Your in a town that is run by a religeon, and you have some material on you that would be 'against the rules'. suddenly your life just got a lot harder.
the CIA won't have to follow us if the readers are every where, would they?
no they can't read you mind, but they tell the world what you own, and people will infer there own reasons why you would own them. And believe me, nobody is going to infer anything positive.
Parent
Re:Bush's cronies... (Score:4, Insightful)
There's a difference between "Tee-hee, then this one guy came in today and he bought
I expect that the biggest discernable change RFID is going to cause is the deliberate modification of personal behavior to prevent this kind of information from being PRESENT so that it cannot be collected.
Parent
Stop fighting it. (Score:5, Funny)
Thanx for listening,
Consumer 0556672GXX89F2
But what about Orrin Hatch... (Score:5, Insightful)
Marketing people really are awful (Score:5, Interesting)
My main point here though is that this is just one example of how marketing people will do ANYTHING to gather information about people. Without a privacy policy, I think the folks in Utah are right, things like RFID will be used to gather personal information about consumers.
Re:Marketing people really are awful (Score:5, Informative)
An RFID tag on the other hand is more like a trojan condom/malware/spyware etc.
Parent
Re:Marketing people really are awful (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
what's the problem? (Score:5, Informative)
you can make it lie and say you were referred by h0t-chixx0r-sex.com
that will get them wondering 8)
or you can just enter the site manually into your location bar, in which case there is no referrer...
Parent
Re:Marketing people really are awful (Score:3, Funny)
That is quite possibly the one of the stupidest things I have every heard. You don't want a retailer knowing how you stumbled upon thier site? Do you demand that all Brick & Mortar retailers blacken their windows so that they can't see the direction from which you drove to get there? Think of all the privacy they are invading with that little trick! One day, they may amass enough information to determine that 60% of their shoppers come from the east and can use that knowledge in purchasing a billboa
Forgot your tinfoil hat. (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Voter issues (Score:5, Informative)
My uninformed opinion of Utah is that there attitude is kinda like.
"We protect our own, you outsiders go away"
Note that there is interest from California, and Massachusetts.
They point out the Senator from Massachusetts sponsored an antispam bill. Even if the bill wasn't perfect, it did pass, and at least he is trying to do something. Perhaps with the right help he can do better with RFID?
Re:Voter issues (Score:5, Informative)
So, despite the drawbacks of living in Utah, it turns out that Utah is actually one of those stealth components to technology. The University of Utah in particular has been a powerhouse in computer graphics and has produced doctorates from such folks as John Warnock (founder of Adobe), David Evans and Ivan Sutherland (Evans & Sutherland), Tom Stockham who created the field of digital recording, Alan Kay (Xerox PARC and developer of the GUI), now a fellow at Apple computer, Alan Ashton (founder of Wordperfect), Henri Gourard (creator of Gourard shading), Ed Catmul (co founder of Pixar), Jim Clark (co founder founder of Silicon Graphics and Netscape).
I have been quite surprised at the depth of the CS program here and we are working with a number of folks on projects that have great interdisciplinary potential. And it turns out that Utah is a pretty good place to live if you like the outdoors and such.
Parent
RFID Locator? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:RFID Locator? (Score:5, Interesting)
> Is there such a thing as an RFID tag locator?
How about an RFID Reader Card for your laptop or PDA? You can get one for $150.00ish US from Syscan International (http://www.syscan.com). It fits a CF slot or PCMCIA with an adapter.From an article in RFID Journal
http://www.rfidjournal.com/article/articleview/
"The read range is just five to 10 cm (two to four inches). But Striefler says the company is working to extend that. 'We hope to increase the power of the chip to improve its read range.'
Looks like a bold new frontier for interacting creatively with corporate computer systems.
Parent
Laws need to include all future forms of tracking. (Score:5, Insightful)
I NEVER thought I'd say this... (Score:5, Funny)
Utah...
*shudders*
Re:I NEVER thought I'd say this... (Score:4, Informative)
If you like any of those things then you might like Utah. If you are not LDS and like those things then even better, because the Mormons aren't doing those things on Sunday. I don't ski on Sunday so I am relying on my friends who do for this info, but they insist that the slopes are nearly empty on Sundays.
Parent
Re:I NEVER thought I'd say this... (Score:4, Funny)
Utah is *great* for hi-tech jobs and businesses
Ssshhh!
We've got too many people in Utah as it is...
Everyone, ignore that AC and listen up: Trust me, Utah sucks. Lousy weather, absolutely nothing to do other than go to church, drinking is strictly prohibited everywhere, Mormons will hound you day and night, and they won't even let you have more than one wife.
Nope. Stay where you are. It's better there.
Parent
Re:I NEVER thought I'd say this... (Score:5, Interesting)
So many people move to Utah (usually from California as far as this post is concerned) because it's a great family-oriented place to live, and the first thing they do when they get here is complain that there isn't enough alcohol (the greatest source of child abuse and spouse abuse ever known to man), gambling (the greatest source of wasted lives ever known to man), and that everything is closed on Sunday (because people are at church or home spending time with their families, which is the reason you moved to this family-oriented state in the first place, isn't it?).
The same road that brought you in will take you back out, and have fun in California!
Utah: A great place to live, despite many efforts by outsiders to make it otherwise...
Parent
Well... (Score:3, Interesting)
We've already seen Budweiser [cnn.com] push for all the info they can get without these tags... I'm sure RFID is soon to follow.
At least they won't be able to invade your spending habits this way, and I'm sure legislation will come to dissallow their current manner of tracking if it deeply affects consumer rights.
Technology like this is beginning to infringe on our privacy though... I wouldn't want everyone to know I bought four pairs of handcuffs and a lether whip around my girlfriend's birth... I mean candy and flowers... yeah
The real issue with RF ID is jobs (Score:5, Interesting)
In some ways this is the ultamate offshoring of a service job. The labor of checkout clerk is moved to the chip factory where the tage is made and the shoe factory where the tag is inserted.
Re:The real issue with RF ID is jobs (Score:3, Insightful)
In some ways this is the ultamate offshoring of a service job
This is not offshoring jobs, it's technology making certain jobs redundent. Since this technology will be cheaper than labour it will win. Jobs are great and all, but people need to be "net productive", at least in theory
Re:The real issue with RF ID is jobs (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The real issue with RF ID is jobs (Score:3, Funny)
This is exactly the same argument that was used (unsuccessfully) against using machines during the "Industrial Revolution", against the use of automated manufacturing equipment on automobile assembly lines during the 1980s, and most recently against the replacement of the White House staff and US President with life-like robots.
Re:The real issue with RF ID is jobs (Score:4, Interesting)
This is precisely why I never have and never will use the 'Self Checkout' lanes at the supermarket, Home Depot, etc. Not only are they eliminating some poor schmo's job, but they're getting ME to do it for them on top. When they start giving me a 10% discount to use those lanes, I'll reconsider. Until then, they can blow me. and forget the argument that the discount is built in... if that were the case the prices at the full service line would be higher. Of course, just like ATMs and bank tellers, I guess that's next. </rant>.
Sorry... just thoroughly disgusted with the system lately.
Parent
tangled web of RFID lies (Score:5, Informative)
New Yorkers were conned into installing EZPass toll ID systems around our entire infrastructure by a lying Mayor Giuliani who promised that the logs would be tightly protected, available only by court order and subpoena after due process, evidence discovery, legal confidentiality, all the rights by which we protect ourselves from our governments. Once up and running, it turned out that $50 through any low-rent lawyer could buy the logs from the cops, at first used in divorce cases, and now surely used for whatever pretext is convenient to invade our privacy.
Now the industry continues the lies to propagate their bugs throughout our consumer society. The deployment of the tech is inevitable, their lies as well. But our privacy rights can win, if we maintain zero tolerance for these invasions, and the liars who would have us pay for our own illegal surveillance. Join or promote the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) [epic.org], or the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) [eff.org], or the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) [aclu.org]. The freedom you save will be your own.
TEMPTED?!?!?!?!? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:TEMPTED?!?!?!?!? (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Who are we more scared of? (Score:3, Insightful)
Son-of-a... (Score:4, Funny)
Now how am I supposed to keep track of all my wives?
Personal jamming / confuse the system? (Score:3, Interesting)
There are DDOS solutions... (Score:3, Informative)
There is work on jammers that just simulate a really high number of different recievers, thus preventing any timeslot from actual use.
Profound Implications? (Score:3, Interesting)
Information wants to be free (Score:4, Funny)
Remember Matrix (Score:4, Interesting)
Tech solution to privacy (Score:5, Interesting)
Starting from this, building a RFID reader detector should be easy -- know when someone is scanning for tags. After that, if some reader is looking for tags with data, why not give the poor thing some? LOUDLY. Reading the data off of some existing tags should give you an idea of what format data the reader is looking for, especially if they use any CRCs or such to stop someone from feeding the reader arbitrary data. Then feed them arbitrary data. The best part is that you really aren't transmitting with passive RFID, you're just "echoing" the reader's transmission.
The gizmo used in the project is an Atmel e5551. Google for that and you'll find lots of things to read.
In the end, it doesn't matter (Score:4, Interesting)
Instead of arguing about whatever particular technologies happen to be available now, let's jump forward to the final argument. Unless you're inside your house, or some other friendly enclosure, you will be observable - and how can we really complain about anyone just *noticing* what they see and recording information about it, regardless of what their purposes are? I'm not really sure where this question will eventually lead but, in the end, it's the truly relevant question.
Re:Is it just me... (Score:5, Interesting)
Polygamy is practiced by groups in many states, but Utah gets all of the focus because of the concentration in certain communities (half in Utah, half across the border in Arizona). Additionally, most of that is attributed to the "Mormon church" [lds.org], which hasn't practiced polygamy since it became a state about 120 years ago (at which time it joined the U.S. and polygamy became illegal in Utah. Before that Utah was not in the United States, and polygamy was perfectly legal). So to even associate modern polygamy with the LDS church would be like calling anyone who currently lived in the southern states racist because their states used to practice slavery.
SCO is ~in~ Utah, but in no way reflects the views of Utah or Utahns. I don't hear anyone bagging on California or Virginia because Verisign is there, or Washington state because Microsoft is there.
Utah is a great state with great people, a lot of great companies, incredibly beautiful natural resources that we take very good care of (8 or 9 National Parks, I think more than any other state, and certainly more geologically diverse), and a lot of other things going for it.
To "feel immediate antagonism" toward Utah over a few issues that are really quite unrelated to the state is just a narrow-minded, uneducated, knee-jerk reaction.
Parent
Re:Is it just me... (Score:4, Informative)
I am not mormon but have lived in southern Utah (actually close to Colorado City) and I must say Utah is one of the best states in the union (just bring your own beer)!
Parent
RTFA (Score:4, Informative)
Parent