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Evolving the Social Network

Posted by CmdrTaco on Thu Nov 13, 2003 03:54 PM
from the somebody-will-get-this-right-someday dept.
Software Patents
arantius writes "An article on BottomQuark points to a new development: Here's a story about a new start-up Huminity, referred to as the technology of the year. The software they produce combines instant messaging, chat, and social networking. After burning through over $30k of personal funds, the team has now raised millions for their company. We've heard about Friendster recently, but somehow this seems more interesting." Jamie adds: Social networking was in the news recently because this patent apparently covers much of it. It was bought for $700K by the two underdogs and may be used to beat up on Friendster. Don't worry, the guy who wrote Slashdot's friend-of-friend code doesn't think we're affected :)
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  • More interesting than Trendster? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by conner_bw (120497) on Thursday November 13 2003, @03:58PM (#7467912) Homepage Journal
    How can this be more interesting that Friensdter? A network of friends that cost the companies millions of dollars in bandwidth and java development but returns zero profits!

    No but seriously, is this DOT COM ERA part 2?

    --
    Tired of spammers? Kill them all [si20.com]! Let the irony of this sig sort 'em out.
        • yeah, that's about all, and I'll continue to say it until somebody figures out that my solution works, and it's worth it. I was against blacklists, and I'm against spamassasin. Why? because both have a inherent problem of blocking email that is perfectly fine, and do nothing to give a response to the spammer crowd. The spammer who sends 500 emails, and gets 100 blocked by spam assasin, doesn't know they got blocked, and stored in a junk folder, they still transversed the network.

          Dns lookups of the hosts

  • And for us... (Score:4, Funny)

    by tomhudson (43916) <hudsonNO@SPAMvideotron.ca> on Thursday November 13 2003, @04:00PM (#7467955) Journal
    And, for /.ers, we'll have anti-social networking (esp. for the gnaa, goatse.cx, penisbird, and tubgirl trolls :-)

  • Some network (Score:3, Interesting)

    by cryptochrome (303529) on Thursday November 13 2003, @04:01PM (#7467961) Homepage Journal
    Apparently, the only social network they recognize is the one amongst windows users. Well, I guess there's always slashdot...
    • Apparently, the only social network they recognize is the one amongst windows users. Well, I guess there's always slashdot...

      Yeah because we all know how socially adept Slashdotters are...

      Half of us probably looked at the term "social networking" and were hoping that it was some sort of geekspeak for sex. :-)


      Mechanik
      • Half of us probably looked at the term "social networking" and were hoping that it was some sort of geekspeak for sex. :-)

        Finally an interface where slower throughput is good...too bad firmware revisions don't last too long!
      • Half of us probably looked at the term "social networking" and were hoping that it was some sort of geekspeak for sex

        Well actually, have you seen friendster? I'm not sure if it's much more then an elaborate dating network...

        And I keep getting ads for "Hot asian girls" on their site. Hello, I'm married, not interested...
    • Apparently, the only social network they recognize is the one amongst windows users.

      Who needs friends anyway.

  • performance (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kaan (88626) on Thursday November 13 2003, @04:02PM (#7467981)
    If Huminity can beat the performance (or lack of it) for services like Friendster, I'd give it my vote. I think I have 14 people in my "friends" list on Friendster, and a Personal Network of nearly 400,000, and it is almost entirely impossible to do just about anything within the service. Sometimes, I can't even login without a browser timeout. Huminity might be able to do really well if they can get decent performance, or even just perceived performance through the use of caching tricks, saved data, etc.
    • <i>Sometimes, I can't even login without a browser timeout. Huminity might be able to do really well if they can get decent performance, or even just perceived performance through the use of caching tricks, saved data, etc.</i>

      Well, I noticed one advantage over friendster right away.

      The Huminity download is an .exe file. Is it even a web (http) app? A plugin?

      Why is a .exe necessary in this case? Can it do something that a well-tuned web app & well-tuned datbase cannot do?

      Most of these ot
      • Tribe.net works because its database servers have not yet come close to getting 1M+ users on it.

        Any database backend works at that small a scale, its once you go past the .5M-1.0M+ range where database backends start to become really important for these kinds of sites.
  • to the exceedingly anti-social. Don't we deserve some programming effort too?

  • Dork out (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    With cell phones more available to teenagers, and the teenagers that get em being cool... The number of people a single person has contact with is greater.

    People have a larger pool of people to interact with now than say 20 years ago. Especially with population growth.

    The cultures that exist are more conforming, and reach more people across a larger area.

    You can totally become a statistics nerd charting the reasons that there are skateboarding chicks now, but 10 years ago, skateboarders were skatefags.
  • How does knowing whose friend is whose help me make friends? Really, it is just a complicated, expensive way of saying, "here are some people. Maybe you'll get along, maybe you won't, but your friend knows them."
    In reality, if I don't have many friends, I won't have many friends of friends, and if I have a lot of friends, why would I need this service? Therefore, it will end up a network of 1:1 connections.
    • There are several social implications of public dispaly of friends that I do not want to get into which go far beyond saying 'your friend knows them.'

      Some of the useful things you can do with this kind of service:

      * You go to Alice's party, and meet Bob. You and Bob hit it off, but because both of you had a few beers you forget to exchange contact information. Alice's friends page to the rescue - you can message Bob.

      * You love circus peanuts and want to find other people willing to loudly declare their sa
  • isn't the friend of friend code just a single SQL query?

    restricting access to data reports based on patents as a business model is dumb. actually, i think i'm going to go patent that now.
  • Hasn't some fairly high-profile company (MS ?) recently dumped online forums as too risky to have on their books ? In an ever-more-litigious society you have to wonder how it'll pan out if it turns out 'drugrunners-R-us' have been using you as a common carrier. Are you really a common carrier ? Really ? Sure ?

    The problem with "recommend a friend" is that it's too close to "recommend a fiend" for comfort. You really have no web of trust - it's all what X says about A says about C ... K.

    I'm just about the m
    • Hasn't some fairly high-profile company (MS ?) recently dumped online forums as too risky to have on their books ? In an ever-more-litigious society you have to wonder how it'll pan out if it turns out 'drugrunners-R-us' have been using you as a common carrier. Are you really a common carrier ? Really ? Sure ?

      I thought a company was not liable for unmoderated forums. Can someone clarify this.

      In any case, there is always the official reason of why a company does something, and there is always an unoffici

  • Patent is bogus (Score:4, Insightful)

    by cameldrv (53081) on Thursday November 13 2003, @04:17PM (#7468161)
    I really don't think Friendster is going to have a problem, as it is virtually the same product as Sixdegrees was in 1997, except Sixdegrees didn't have the dating angle.
  • A social network is nothing more than a group of people. Well, at least that's what it sounds like HERE. [google.com]

    Prove me wrong.

  • No thanks. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by tomzyk (158497) on Thursday November 13 2003, @04:26PM (#7468287) Homepage Journal
    1. I've never heard of a piece of software that does this sort of thing, and wonder why it would ever exist in the first place (other than just for the novelty of it).

    2. Even if it is just for fun, why are they charging you to search through it?
    All features of the Huminity software are completely free apart from the "Search Path" using free-text, which is provided at an economical yearly subscription price of $28.

    3. If they can't even create a website that can be viewed in anything other than the latest M$ browser [ditto for their DEMO], I don't think I'd trust their software running on my computer anways.

  • A paradigm shift in human communication (Score:4, Funny)

    by Strange Ranger (454494) on Thursday November 13 2003, @04:27PM (#7468306)
    "Navigating 6 degrees of communication with Huminity's Technology of the Year represents a complete paradigm shift regarding the nature of the net and human social interaction. Exploding the boundaries of what we've know as 'community' thus far in human evolution..."

    Admit it, you miss Katz, just a little bit.

    :]
  • Hmmmm, replace the word "database" with the word "list". Don't the lists from various trading cartels over the centuries constitute prior art? I mean, if nothing else, the mafia should have a much strong claim for keeping databases of "friends" and their "friends".

    • Re:Prior art? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by jamiefaye (44093) <jamie@fent o n i a . c om> on Thursday November 13 2003, @05:15PM (#7468865) Homepage
      Drug dealing has followed this protocol ever since the Harrison Narcotic Act of 1914. The diference is that the database is decentralized and either committed to human memory or stored in an encrypted form.

      Basically, to form a new hookup you must be introduced to a dealer by someone whom the dealer already trusts. The edges of the networks are called "runners", and can be found on streetcorners and in dance clubs. Retail and wholesale distribution follows a similar pattern.

      When the protocol breaks down, particularly due to personnel security issues, bullets fly. Otherwise it works pretty well!
  • The thing I like about Friendster is that there is no download and it is accessible from anywhere - doesn't matter what software you have, what browser you use, what OS you are using, or most importantly where you are when you want to check your friends list. If Huminity could have it all on the web (with Java chat clients like all the other chat services provide), they would get my vote. Until then, I will stick to the service for which I don't have to do anything to use but sign up.

    Z
  • Quote from their website: " We believe the Internet's greatness is the interaction it brings between people " Spend a few days browsing forums, and even post to a few, and you quickly realize there are a lot of people out there you have no need to get to know better. If you need the processing power of a gigahertz processor to make friends, you are in a world of trouble once you step away from your computer. Just MHO.

  • YHBT. YHL. HAND. (Score:5, Informative)

    by ewhac (5844) on Thursday November 13 2003, @05:12PM (#7468842) Homepage Journal

    This very same story was posted to Kuro5hin's [kuro5hin.org] queue about a week ago -- right down to the ridiculous "social networking has evolved" meme -- and voted down as a blatant advertising plug. Below is a copy of my post to the topic while it was still in the voting queue; it's still appropriate today:

    From Huminity's site:

    Contacts are notified by a one-time e-mail notification about their inclusion in the Huminity network. We see it as our obligation to notify contacts of their inclusion in the network and allow them at their own will to be delisted. Though this item is sometimes considered wrongly as SPAM by users and contacts, we think that it would be inconceivable NOT to notify contacts about their inclusion, even by their friends.

    "It's inconceivable to us that people wouldn't want to know about our valuable service!" How very self-serving. Couple this with the fact that:

    • You have to download a custom application whose behavior and security implications are unknown, and,
    • You must provide contact data for five people before you're allowed to browse the network.
    And you begin to see why I'm seriously disinterested in trying it out.

    When evaluating services like this, I want to see who's already there. I want to do this without calling attention to myself or anyone else. If I like what I see, then I'll participate further -- fill out a profile, hook up to already-registered friends, tell other people about it, etc. Forcing me to offer up five contacts as tribute violates this principle.

    Friendster gets this part right: You can participate as much or as little as you want, and Friendster contacts your unregistered friends only when you explicitly direct it to. In this respect, Friendster operates as a service, whereas Huminity has the patina of yet another email harvesting operation, in the same light as those someone-has-a-crush-on-you sites.

    No sale, guys.

    Schwab

    • "yet another email harvesting operation, in the same light as those someone-has-a-crush-on-you sites."

      I always hated those things so much when I found out how they harvested email addresses. You don't really get a chance to opt-in because your friends do it for you....how nice of them. And you can't really opt-out because by then they've already sold your email address to someone else.

  • New? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by lifebouy (115193)
    I've known about (and used, once or twice) Huminity for well over a year. The basic idea rocks. However: 0. No chatroom. 1. Useless info on most people 2. Doesn't have the critical mass of users to truly be useful. Finding paths to groups of users can be a pain. 3. Windoze only, last I looked. That said, I'd love to see a OSS version of this. Perhaps built around GnuPG so that messages could be encrypted and your web of trust shows up as your "network." This kind of graphical display of webs of trust would

  • What we really need... (Score:3, Funny)

    by 3rdParty (719962) on Thursday November 13 2003, @05:23PM (#7468946)
    is internet liquor, something that makes you and other people seem wittier and more atractive online than you or they are in real life. You could call it eGoggles, and make it like a forum, only allow people to select questions and responses from a list of quotes by really witty people, and avatars of really attractive people. Then you might have something.
  • For context here's a few thingies that offer that friend-network action: Friendster [friendster.com]
    No download, runs anywhere. Kinda simplistic, users stop logging in.

    Tribe [tribe.net]
    No download, runs anywhere. More nerdy, uemphasis on freedom of use, discussion groups. Supports lots of pictures.

    MySpace [myspace.com]
    No download, runs anywhere. Supports restricted blogs, popularity contests, 10 pics. Does not emphasize actual RL friendship dynamics.

    Friend of a Friend [foaf-project.org]
    Open standard for creting friendster-like network apps. Used by PeepAgg [www.peopleaggregator.com] to build OSS system.

    There are more, and I'd love to see replies with links to this rapidly growing class of services/apps, with brief descriptions attached. Thanks

  • Six Degrees had a good thing going for a while, but they messed it up by rewarding people to lie about the number of contacts they had.

    Initially I had recruited a number of colleagues, former bosses, and former professors to that network, but I really felt embarassed of having done so after SixDegrees started giving away CD players and prizes for expanding ones network. Eventually, many people started listing thousands of worthless contacts in their profiles and the network became completely useless as a p

  • Gee, if I don't already have 5 contacts I can't register and be part of the network? Great. Thanks. That will help me find friends. Jerks.
  • Wow ... imagine, using computers to connect people to each other!

    I wonder if, at any time in the last 25 years, they've seen a BBS.
  • I've often wished I could add a small note (ala ebay feedback or slashdot url) of why I made someone a friend or foe.

    This friend/foe system would be far more usable if there were some way of knowing why I made someone a pal two years ago, and if they continue to deserve that 'honor'.

    In addition, it would probably benefit those who are foed to know what the reason was. Like "teamhasnoi - foed for making fun of republicans". I would then see that republicans still have no sense of humor, and act according

  • (I can't take credit for this. My brother wrote it)

    I think I've come up with a system which will
    solve Friendster's database problems:

    First you get 2500 chimpanzees, and arrange them
    in a 50x50 grid. Each monkey is sitting in front
    of a chute which dispenses ripe bananas. Whenever
    the Friendster server needs to retrieve a piece
    of data, bananas will be dispensed across the
    grid in a pattern that represents the parameters
    of that database query. Monkeys who do not get
    bananas will begin flinging feces at the monkeys
    who do get them, and an array of overhead
    cameras, connected to an advanced video analysis
    system, will extrapolate the vectors and
    distribution of said feces.

    In another room, these vectors are fed directly
    into the cerebral cortex of a stoned teenager in
    a Slipknot T-shirt, who is playing Excitebike.
    His NES, which has been augmented with
    sophisticated artificial intelligence algorithms
    and has achieved consciousness, uses the input
    from the game controller to infer the appropriate
    response to the database query, and
    telepathically transmits this information to Miss
    Cleo.

    At this point the user will be prompted to call
    Miss Cleo, who will tell them the answer in
    highly inauthentic Jamaican patois. This will
    cost $2.99 per minute, but there will be several
    Kingston rude bwoys standing by Miss Cleo who
    will roll 3d6 every time someone calls. If the
    result is less than Miss Cleo's saving throw, the
    rude bwoys will gang-rape her at knifepoint.

    I think this will be a much more efficient system
    than whatever the fuck they're doing now.
    • We are since we are under slashdot effect bare with us :). Hope you will enjoy the Huminity software.

      The Huminity team

      Nice, sites now have Slashdot protection.

        • Why not abolish all property? Saying that I shouldn't have rights to the works I create while I have ownership of my car, my computer, my house, my clothes, my skin and my brain seems like a bunch of petty mindless ranking?

          Of course, when none of us are allowed to own anything including ourselves then we are all wards of the states. That is we are all slaves. When you are prevented from owning anything, you become a defacto slave. But the ultimate conclusion of the dialectics is that freedom is slavery a
    • Are we slowly turning into a milky white skin-toned people?

      No, I'll never turn into a Brit.
      It's olive skin for me!

      [ducks] ;)

      P.S.- parent is a troll- treat it accordingly.
      • Slowly as in it'll take a few years. Imagine millions of Americans sitting at home eating Cheetos, surfing the web and never leaving their home/apartment. That's what I mean by milky-white skin. No sunlight!

    • Social networking is just a fancy term for "meeting people". I'm guessing they had to call it something interesting in order to get funding.
      • More than that really. You want to google up for "scale-free networks" and, perhaps, "Axelrod's Model of Social Influence"; the term 'social network' is actually in scientific papers these days.

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