Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

White House Website Limits Iraq-Related Crawling

Posted by simoniker on Mon Oct 27, 2003 04:24 PM
from the intriguingly-specific dept.
oscarcar writes "Dan Gillmor is reporting on the White House website's use of its robots.txt file to disable search engines from crawling certain material. Many excluded items in the robots.txt file involve mentions of Iraq, possibly to prevent people from finding changes to past statements and information when archived elsewhere."
+ -
story
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • Funny (Score:5, Funny)

    by sulli (195030) * on Monday October 27 2003, @04:25PM (#7322161) Journal
    whitehouse.com doesn't have that problem.
  • by Armethius (718200) <jtunnell@@@utk...edu> on Monday October 27 2003, @04:26PM (#7322169)
    possibly to prevent people from finding changes to past statements and information when archived elsewhere
    Or possibly not...
      • Re:And your ... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by SQL Error (16383) on Monday October 27 2003, @04:55PM (#7322542)
        Better explanation: Someone screwed up a search-and-replace in a major way. Many (most?) of those pages with "iraq" in them don't exist.

        It looks like someone blocked off parts of the site to web-crawlers; I don't know for sure why all those blah/bloo/iraq entries are in there but they sure as hell don't lead to anything.

        Censorship: 0
        Screwups: 100
        • re: and your ... (Score:4, Insightful)

          by ed.han (444783) on Monday October 27 2003, @05:01PM (#7322604) Journal
          what's that old saying? "never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" or something like that?

          let's not get reactionary here, folks. it wouldn't make sense to do what's being alleged:

          1. every major journalist worth his/her salt would be all over it within hours. so it wouldn't succeed in obscuring information.

          2. it would create an incredible backlash as soon as detected. what purpose would this serve?

          ed
          • Re: and your ... (Score:4, Insightful)

            by AllUsernamesAreGone (688381) on Monday October 27 2003, @05:17PM (#7322787)
            "1. every major journalist worth his/her salt would be all over it within hours."

            Don't be naive. How long do you think that any mainstream journalist who made a story of this would have a job for? The answer - not long. The US media in particular, although the UK is getting as bad, is little more than a relay system for government propaganda and real, detailed, complete examination of government behaviour, with equal air time to truly dissenting opinions (how many times has Chomsky been on CNN in the past 4 months?) is out of the question. What the government does is Good and Right and Should Not Be Questioned.

            Media by the elite, serving the elite.
          • Re: and your ... (Score:5, Interesting)

            by Zeinfeld (263942) on Monday October 27 2003, @05:52PM (#7323140) Homepage
            every major journalist worth his/her salt would be all over it within hours. so it wouldn't succeed in obscuring information.

            Where have you been living the past five years? Journalists don't criticize Bush.

            They still have not published the fact that he deserted from the national guard during Vietnam and they practically ignored his DUI conviction.

            The GOP has the media cowed with their constant 'liberal media' babble. There number of journalists who are prepared to hold Bush to account is tiny - Krugman, Conanston, Irvins, Alterman. After that its Al Franken, Jon Stewart and David Letterman.

            it would create an incredible backlash as soon as detected. what purpose would this serve?

            The chances that the mainstream media will pick this one up are very small. Just think how they would have reacted if it was Clinton!

              • Re: and your ... (Score:4, Interesting)

                by Zeinfeld (263942) on Monday October 27 2003, @07:06PM (#7323792) Homepage
                The crux of this argument is that Bush missed some drills in 1972 while he was working on a political campaign in Alabama.

                The crux of the matter is that he refused to have his pilots medical just after the Pentagon added a check for illegal drug use.

                You can try to spin this whichever way that Karl Rove tells you but the facts are against you. The fact is that your great leader is a coward who ducked the draft and then deserted to avoid a drug test.

                  • Re:And your ... (Score:5, Insightful)

                    by Darby (84953) on Monday October 27 2003, @07:59PM (#7324234)
                    Well terrorists have been attacking us since we have been in Iraq till this point in time, but i guess that doesnt mean there is any link..... naaaah

                    Native people fighting against an occupying force are known as freedom fighters, not terrorists.

                    ry again sparky.
        • by johnnyb (4816) <johnnyb@eskimo.com> on Monday October 27 2003, @05:12PM (#7322714) Homepage
          It really doesn't look like it. It looks like someone screwed up, because none of those directories appear to exist at all. I mean really, what are the chances of /firstlady/photos/2003/01/iraq actually having at some time contained real data?

          It looks like someone did a

          find . -type d|perl -e 'while(<>){print "${_}/iraq\n"; print "${_}/text\n";}' > robots.txt

          I have no idea what the purpose would be, but it seems like a funny thing to do if you were trying to hide something.

          By the way, who is going around looking at people's robots.txt files?
  • upside (Score:5, Funny)

    by 514x0r (691137) on Monday October 27 2003, @04:26PM (#7322171)
    it's good to see the whitehouse embracing technology so much.
  • by rot26 (240034) * on Monday October 27 2003, @04:27PM (#7322178) Homepage Journal
    Many excluded items in the robots.txt file involve mentions of Iraq, possibly to prevent people from finding changes to past statements and information when archived elsewhere."

    Maybe, but I would think they might also be looking for "shady" spiders that ignored robots.txt. I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't a few honeypot pages in there too.
    • Maybe, but I would think they might also be looking for "shady" spiders that ignored robots.txt. I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't a few honeypot pages in there too.

      Oh, crap. I just plugged in /firstlady/images/iraq [whitehouse.gov], and now you tell me I'd better watch out. Damn this static IP address!

      Quick, Slashdot that link before the Agents get to my cube!
    • Honeypot or not, look at robots.txt. It's creepy: just about every entry is an Iraq-related page, and there are a lot of entries. If they wanted to just have a few honeypots, that shouldn't involve that many entries, or so many with the common theme of Iraq.
        • How can they be Iraq related if they didn't exsist to begin with?

          A question that GW gets asked all the time. :-)
        • by EinarH (583836) on Monday October 27 2003, @05:49PM (#7323096) Journal
          Didn't think so, not a single one that I went to is a valid URL, and I highly doubt that they were valid to begin with.
          From
          http://www.bway.net/~keith/whrobots/disdirs.html
          Some of the directories that 404 truly are empty of files. FOr instance:
          http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/timeline/iraq

          doesn't have files.

          But at least some of the files that 404 above Do have files in the directory, just not an index file. For instance:

          http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/100days

          does not have an index page, so just entering that URL will give a 404.

          However, the directory has the following files in it:

          http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/100days/100 days.pdf
          http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/100days/int roduction.html
          http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/100days/par t1.html
          http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/100days/par t2.html
          http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/100days/par t3.html
          http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/100days/par t4.html
          http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/100days/par t5.html
          http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/100days/par t6.html
          http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/100days/par t7.html
          http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/100days/par t8.html
          http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/100days/par t9.html
          http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/100days/par t10.html

          All those files are excluded by the directory disallow entry in robots.txt

          And, yes these files *are* relevant.
          • Someone's been busy (Score:4, Informative)

            by billybob2001 (234675) on Monday October 27 2003, @09:06PM (#7324744)
            For instance:
            http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/ 100days


            Not any more.

            Although the current Google cache [216.239.59.104] lists

            /infocus/iraq
            /infocus/iraq/100days/iraq
            /infocus/iraq/100days/text
            [snip 22 lines]
            /infocus/iraq/photoessay/iraq
            /infocus/iraq/photoessay/text
            /infocus/iraq/text



            the current robots.txt leaps from
            /infocus/internationaltrade/text
            to
            /infocus/judicialnominees/iraq

            Conspiracy theory over...

            ...or is it?

  • Queue somebody... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dave2 Wickham (600202) on Monday October 27 2003, @04:27PM (#7322180) Homepage Journal
    Queue somebody to take a crawler (hell, even a bash script using wget) to specifically archive these pages. Hell, they could even use a user-agent which doesn't look like a bot.

    Of course, people would be less likely to trust random-Joe from the Internet than, say, The Wayback Machine, but I expect this is what will happen...
  • by MechCow (561875) on Monday October 27 2003, @04:30PM (#7322210) Homepage
    There doesn't seem to be anything big about this. I understand the origins of the robots.txt file were about keeping robots out of infinite loops and unimportant large file trees, but everyone knows they are also used to prevent google from indexing stuff people would rather keep (semi) private.

    If this was some crazy government conspiracy and they were trying to hide the information, why would they put it on their website? Could be any number of reasons they have done this perhaps they were getting loads of hits from google about iraq related things but if anyone really wants the information surely they can just visit it.

    • by jpetts (208163) on Monday October 27 2003, @04:55PM (#7322541)
      If this was some crazy government conspiracy and they were trying to hide the information, why would they put it on their website? Could be any number of reasons they have done this perhaps they were getting loads of hits from google about iraq related things but if anyone really wants the information surely they can just visit it.

      Actually, the motivation around this could be to prevent caching of the documents, so that it's not so easy to compare differently dated versions of the same document. See this piece at Caltech [caltech.edu] for an example of how things change with time.
  • by Lizard_King (149713) on Monday October 27 2003, @04:30PM (#7322213) Journal
    Disallow: /president/spongebobsquarepants_archive

    I didn't know gee-dub likes SpongeBob too! My nephew is gonna flip out when he hears this.
  • by mcc (14761) <amcclure@purdue.edu> on Monday October 27 2003, @04:30PM (#7322217) Homepage
    Perhaps their goal is simply so that when people google or whatnot for information on the Bush Administration and Iraq, they will be likely to find the Bush Administration's current views on and actions in Iraq, rather than outdated material?

    Completely ignoring for the moment the fact that these views and actions are really somewhat embarrasing for the Bush administration, this really makes sense from a practical viewpoint. Few things are as annoying as searching for something news-ish and finding primarily material from two years ago. And after all, if they ONLY were interested in people forgetting the old materials, they could have just removed those materials from the site totally. (Though perhaps they were aware removing the materials completely would cause mirrors, which would be fully searchable, to spring up.)
  • Seriously though... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by MyNameIsFred (543994) * on Monday October 27 2003, @04:31PM (#7322232)
    ...possibly to prevent people from finding changes to past statements and information when archived elsewhere...

    While anything is possible in politics, is it possible that the web admin is trying to limit the amount of traffic on the site? Is it possible that his analysis of the weblogs show a lot of traffic from robots looking for Iraqi-related info?

  • or even considering that previous statements might not match current statements means that the terrorists win. The WH Ministry of Truth works hard to ensure that the spin for the day gets out to the party faithful above the filters of "news" with their "facts" that don't gibe with the message we're trying to deliver.

    If you persist in contemplating a world where whatever statements that the WH puts out, no matter how they might seem to contradict previous statements, are not totally true and correct, then a relocation expert from Guantanamo will be by in a few minutes. Just step away from the computer.

  • Everything Iraq.... (Score:5, Informative)

    by c_oflynn (649487) on Monday October 27 2003, @04:31PM (#7322238)
    It looks like 99% of the stuff related to Iraq is filtered out in robots.txt.

    But not a problem, on google.com I just specify the site by saying 'Iraq site:whitehouse.gov' and it had 14,000 hits... the first one is the root of /infocus/iraq directory (which is dissallowed in robots.txt)
    • by mrpuffypants (444598) * <slashdot@tomservo.RASPnet minus berry> on Monday October 27 2003, @04:45PM (#7322419)
      Well, yes it would still be in google's search results if the GoogleBot hasn't crawled the whitehouse site since the change was made.

      Next time it crawls the site it won't read the forbidden directories and will delete them (if present) from the Google Cache, essentially erasing any official iraq history from google (and other search engines)
  • by Dlugar (124619) on Monday October 27 2003, @04:33PM (#7322258) Homepage

    Obviously, they're keeping people from accessing the top-secret teeball Iraq files [whitehouse.gov] ! Besides:

    Disallow: /teeball/iraq/
    check out these other frightening examples of censorship:
    Disallow: /kids/spotty/iraq

    Disallow: /kids/eggroll/iraq
    Disallow: /kids/barney/iraq
    Disallow: /easter/iraq
    Disallow: /mrscheney/iraq
    Disallow: /national-anthem/iraq

    Truly frightening.
    • Downloading the "robot.txt" file and doing a quick ctrl-f on different words, I discovered that there are six instances of "Barney" coming up in the robot.txt:

      Disallow: /holiday/2002/barney/iraq
      Disallow: /holiday/2002/barney/text
      Disallow: /kids/barney/iraq
      Disallow: /kids/barney/text
      Disallow: /kids/photoessays/barney/iraq
      Disallow: /kids/photoessays/barney/text

      Which is the same number as "cheney", "powell" had 4, "saddam" didn't have any and "bush" only comes up with "bushpets".

      Clearly, there is something to do with Barney and Iraq that The White House doesn't want you to know about.

      myke
  • by wardomon (213812) on Monday October 27 2003, @04:34PM (#7322269)
    welcome our White House Robot Overlords. It would be funnier if it weren't true.
  • From 1984:

    Winston's greatest pleasure in life was in his work. Most of it was a tedious routine, but included in it there were also jobs so difficult and intricate that you could lose yourself in them as in the depths of a mathematical problem -- delicate pieces of forgery in which you had nothing to guide you except your knowledge of the principles of Ingsoc and your estimate of what the Party wanted you to say. Winston was good at this kind of thing. On occasion he had even been entrusted with the rectification of the Times leading articles, which were written entirely in Newspeak. He unrolled the message that he had set aside earlier. It ran:

    times 3.12.83 reporting bb dayorder doubleplusungood refs unpersons rewrite fullwise upsub antefiling

    In Oldspeak (or standard English) this might be rendered:

    The reporting of Big Brother's Order for the Day in the Times of December 3rd 1983 is extremely unsatisfactory and makes references to non-existent persons. Rewrite it in full and submit your draft to higher authority before filing.

  • related links (Score:5, Interesting)

    by js7a (579872) * <james@bov[ ]org ['ik.' in gap]> on Monday October 27 2003, @04:35PM (#7322288) Homepage Journal
    A couple of web sites that (1) have in the past done a great job of catching these kind of things, and (2) have mailing lists you can subscribe to:

    Here's a minor example of something those two sites didn't catch: Remember Iraq's so-called "mobile biological weapons factories" [fas.org]? A month after the story broke that they were for weather balloons [slashdot.org], the CIA moved their report's URL [informatio...house.info].

    An intriguing fact about this whitehouse.gov/*/iraq thing is that they do in fact cover some of the important statements [bway.net] which are apparently not duplicated in the press release, conference, and briefing directories. Perhaps there was a "unique urgency" to cover up some poor choices of words?

  • by Have Blue (616) on Monday October 27 2003, @04:41PM (#7322367) Homepage
    If you try actually *loading* the directories listed in the robots.txt [whitehouse.gov], they don't exist. Not one. Not by going to their index.html or trying to find them through the site navigation. While they could still be accused of deleting them, many of the links are unlikely to have existed in the first place (http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/heartland-tou r-gallery/iraq? /president/holiday/decorations/iraq? /president/tee-ball-01/iraq? ) This may be just some IT grunt running a bad script on robots.txt.
  • by MillionthMonkey (240664) on Monday October 27 2003, @05:06PM (#7322651)
    # robots.txt for http://www.ingsoc.gov/

    User-agent: *
    Disallow: /cgi-bin
    Disallow: /search
    Disallow: /query.html
    Disallow: /help
    Disallow: /appointments/eurasia
    Disallow: /appointments/eastasia
    Disallow: /ask/images/eurasia
    Disallow: /ask/images/eastasia
    Disallow: /deptofhomeland/analysis/eurasia
    Disallow: /deptofhomeland/analysis/eastasia
    Disallow: /deptofhomeland/eurasia
    Disallow: /deptofhomeland/eastasia
    Disallow: /economy/eurasia
    Disallow: /economy/eastasia
    Disallow: /goodbye/eurasia
    Disallow: /goodbye/eastasia
    Disallow: /government/handbook/eurasia
    Disallow: /government/handbook/eastasia
    Disallow: /government/images/eurasia
    Disallow: /government/images/eastasia
    Disallow: /government/eurasia
    Disallow: /government/eastasia


    And now, an offering for the lameness filter...

    Oceania was at war with Eastasia: Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia. A large part of the political literature of five years was now completely obsolete. Reports and records of all kinds, newspapers, books, pamphlets, films, sound tracks, photographs- all had to be rectified at lightning speed. Although no directive was ever issued, it was known that the chiefs of the Department intended that within one week no reference to the war with Eurasia, or the alliance with Eastasia, should remain in existence anywhere. The work was overwhelming, all the more so because the processes that it involved could not be called by their true names. Everyone in the Records Department worked eighteen hours in the twenty-four, with two three-hour snatches of sleep. Mattresses were brought up from the cellars and pitched all over the corridors; meals consisted of sandwiches and Victory Coffee wheeled round on trolleys by attendants from the canteen. Each time that Winston broke off for one of his spells of sleep he tried to leave his desk clear of work, and each time that he crawled back sticky-eyed and aching, it was to find that another shower of paper cylinders had covered the desk like a snowdrift, half burying the speakwrite and overflowing onto the floor, so that the first job was always to stack them into a neat-enough pile to give him room to work. What was worst of all was that the work was by no means purely mechanical. Often it was enough merely to substitute one name for another, but any detailed report of events demanded care and imagination. Even the geographical knowledge that one needed in transferring the war from one part of the world to another was considerable.

    This was written in 1948. Things have really progressed!

  • by flossie (135232) on Monday October 27 2003, @05:14PM (#7322750) Homepage
    There is a very simple explanation for this, as anyone who has read 1984 should know. In order for the glorious government to effectively serve the greater good, they need to be able to communicate changes of policy quickly and effectively. If, for instance, the enemy in a war changes, it is necessary to quickly update all documents that describe how evil the enemy are. Rather than manually editing all the documents, it is much easier to have one generic word, say "text", which can then be altered as appropriate:

    sed 's/text/iraq/g'
    sed 's/text/iran/g'
    sed 's/text/cuba/g'
    sed 's/text/belgium/g'
    etc.

    Obviously robots.txt just happened to be in the path!

  • by MoneyT (548795) on Monday October 27 2003, @05:23PM (#7322848) Journal
    So, am I to understand that the same administration that was smart enough to rig an election, Smart enough to cause 9/11, Smart enough to forge evidence and go to war is the same administration that came up with the brilliant plan of HIDING information by putting it in a PUBLICALY availible file?
    • by DrEldarion (114072) on Monday October 27 2003, @04:31PM (#7322241) Homepage
      Nothing's hidden, it's all there, it's all searchable from the white house website, just not from search engines.
      • by Selanit (192811) on Monday October 27 2003, @05:13PM (#7322735)
        Nothing's hidden, it's all there, it's all searchable from the white house website, just not from search engines.
        Correction: it's all there, as far as we can tell. How can I be sure that the results returned by the whitehouse.gov search engine are full and complete when google and all the other search engines have been partially crippled? There's no way to verify the completeness of the results -- I just have to take their word for it. Just like I was asked to take their word about Hussein's weapons of mass destruction.

        Paranoia aside, I object to these restrictions as a matter of principle. They're making it more difficult to access publically available information. It's not classified, and it never was. I, as a citizen of the U.S.A., have a right to know what my leaders have said and done.

        Let's assume the whitehouse.gov search engine is completely honest, and faithfully returns a complete listing of all materials on the site having to do with Iraq. If that's so, then there should be no reason to disable other search engines, since their results would just confirm the internal results.

        But the restrictions are in place, meaning that someone thought there was a good reason to do so. Restricting access makes it more difficult for people to research information pertaining to Iraq on the whitehouse.gov web site. Who are the people most likely to be doing that? Answer: journalists, activists, and concerned citizens. Obviously these restrictions aren't enough by themselves to dissuade a determined researcher; but it might slow them down. And it might actually stop a diffident researcher completely.

        I'm not even going to go into scenarios where the whitehouse.gov search engine is not trustworthy, because serving up "doctored" speeches or information is highly unlikely. There are too many other archives to compare against, and it would be a major scandal if the administration was found to be altering records on its website. They'd have to be really, really dumb to do that.

        The whole thing still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, though.
      • by fermion (181285) on Monday October 27 2003, @05:23PM (#7322851) Homepage Journal
        The rules for transparency goes beyond merely 'not hiding' information. It is necessary to make information available from well know locations in the most convenient form practical. This, for instance, is why we have a congressional record rather than just binders of unsorted documents in a basement of some public building.

        The other rule for transparency is that all material information be made available, kept, or destroyed in accordance to public regulation and individual policy. Individual policy must be consistent and decisions must be defensible based on policy.

        The fact that people do not understand these two aspectsof transparency are what allow situations like Enron to develop. The later is what caused the destruction of Arthur Anderson. They have done nothing wrong, but they did not follow their own policy on document destruction, which made then look like at best idiots and at worst criminals.

        We may compare this to other ventures to suggest policy. The NYT does not want google to cache articles because the NYT sells those articles after a certain time. Many other companies do not want deep linking because it reduces ad revenue. A fascist government may want to insure all users enter their site from a top page to make sure all users must go through the daily propaganda. A library tries hard to not track patrons so that no is afraid of using the library. The rational of the White House is beyond me.

        The White House is not hiding documents. However, they are reducing the transparency of the government by limiting the avenues by which the public may access documents. Since the White House has stated many times that it believes in transparency, and in fact requires transparency when dealing with other governments, one can stipulate that transparency is the appropriate standard. So, until someone comes up with a policy that was developed and vetted through the normal processes used in the U.S., one has every reason to suspect nefarious motives.

        And, if I may modify a statement that conservatives like to make, if you do not like transparency, go move to Iraq.

    • Re:Oh please (Score:5, Insightful)

      by phritz (623753) on Monday October 27 2003, @04:32PM (#7322250)
      Congratulations to simoniker, poster of the most inanely paranoid comment I have ever read here on slashdot. And that's saying something.

      I have to admit, when I first read the story I thought someone was being paranoid. But you really should RTF robots.txt file before you accuse the poster of being paranoid. The disallowed files are extraordinarily specific. I really can't come up with a plausible explanation beyond simoniker's.

    • Re:Oh please (Score:5, Interesting)

      by cgranade (702534) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [edanargc]> on Monday October 27 2003, @04:35PM (#7322280) Homepage Journal
      This gets modded up as Insightful? I mean, the White House is routinely editing their trascripts, and if bots like Google and Wayback can go and find that no, Bush said that we found weapons, not a weapons program, then there goes Bush's latest FUD... *thud*. Just because it's a tinfoil hat worthy theory doesn't mean it isn't true... most aren't, but therein lies the issue: most.
    • You're right; the only reason you'd ever want to use robots.txt is to hide copyrighted information. You'd never use it to prevent a crawler from doing something like
      GET /page1.php
      GET /page1.php?skin=print
      GET /page1.php?skin=decorated
      GET /page1.php?skin=cool
      GET /page1.php?skin=high-contract
      ...ad nauseum for every single page on your website. And I certainly don't use robots.txt to keep bots from following all of the "edit" links on my wiki site [honeypot.net] resulting in a huge number of "unauthorized access" log entries.

      Nosirree, no legitimate webmaster would ever use robots.txt to gently guide visiting bots to the appropriate parts of the site and to keep them from trying to do silly things. The only possible use is to trample your rights while installing the new corporate-owned government.

      Geez, people. Honestly.

    • by davebo (11873) on Monday October 27 2003, @05:07PM (#7322668) Journal
      The complaint is they've done it before - "combat operations are done" became "major combat operations are done" when the fighting didn't stop. You can check here [differentstrings.info].

      Compare the screenshots of what used to be on the white house website vs what's currently on the website.

      Yes, I know, "how do we know this blogger didn't alter the screenshots?" You don't.
          • Re:EXACTLY (Score:5, Insightful)

            by davebo (11873) on Monday October 27 2003, @06:44PM (#7323593) Journal
            Nobody thinks Bush and Cheney are updating the website. Jeeze. But the folks that are running the website (and I would bet this extends down to the actual webmaster/tech guy) are political appointees who are there to make the president look good. That is their job. Their actions are all filtered through this political role.

            Let's present an alternate scenario - since you have no evidence for yours, I don't have to present any evidence for mine.

            It's May - Pres. makes his speech on the Carrier, the assumption by those-in-charge are that Chalabi's government will have control of the country within a couple of weeks and the US troops will be heading on home. The web folks (who want to make B & C look good) declare "combat's done! the troops are coming home! re-elect Bush!"

            A few months later, that rosy scenario hasn't quite panned out. The aircraft carrier speech is becoming a liability for Bush - people started counting the number of dead troops in Iraq since he gave the speech, and it keeps going up. The web folks (who want to make B & C look good) say to themselves "this is a potential embarrassment to the president - let's see how we can make it less embarrassing."

            And there you have it.
      • by flossie (135232) on Monday October 27 2003, @05:27PM (#7322903) Homepage
        An honourable country would not keep people imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay without either giving them PoW status or charging them with a specific offence and giving them the right to a fair trial, including free, unhindered and unmonitored access to legal counsel.
          • by flossie (135232) on Monday October 27 2003, @07:27PM (#7323933) Homepage
            To be a POW you have to have been captured wearing a recognisable uniform, and be part of an established fighting force of a government. I suspect that many of the people captured met neither condition.

            In which case they should be charged with something, either spying (unlikely if they were in their own country) or something else. They should then have the opportunity to defend themselves in open court with the ability to avail themselves of all the rights guaranteed by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights [un.org] which the US has signed up to. If US soldiers in Britain arrested me, I would not be wearing a recognisable uniform because I am not part of the military or any recognisable fighting force of government. That does not give them the right to forcibly remove me from my home country and lock me up without ever even charging me with anything! The actions of Bush and his cohorts in the Whitehouse are absolutely disgusting.