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RFID Tags on Mach3 Razorblades Snap Your Photo
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Sun Jul 20, 2003 08:13 AM
from the now-thats-just-creapy dept.
from the now-thats-just-creapy dept.
peteo writes "Think RFID tags are harmless? Look at how they are being used in the UK: "At the Tesco Cambridge store, a camera trained on the Gillette blade shelf, and triggered by RFID tags, captures a photo of each customer who removes a Mach3 pack. Another photo is taken at the checkout and security staff compare the two images to ensure they always have a pair"
According to the spokesman,"there are certainly not any privacy concerns" in relation to these tags. He adds that there is plenty of in-store signage indicating the supermarket's use of CCTV cameras. ""
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Buh-wah? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Buh-wah? (Score:3, Interesting)
Phibz
Re:Buh-wah? (Score:5, Funny)
That is, of course, after you show two forms of picture ID, at least one showing you with a beard. They then perform a cursory measurement of your existing stubble and review your past purchases of razor blades to determine whether you actually need the blades or not. Cap it all off with an American-as-apple-pie dirty look and you've got your shopping experience.
-jason
Parent
Re:Buh-wah? (Score:4, Funny)
I did. Now I am sitting in this cell at the airport.
Parent
A losing battle against facial hair... (Score:5, Funny)
All this for something that you're using to cut off a part of yourself that grows back in a short time.:P
Before even taking into account physiological differences due to genetics, no matter how much you spend on the blades, you're going to have to shave again tomorrow (some men even sooner). Which is why I gave up the price battle and just use an electric razor for most times, and a pack of the cheap safety razors around for use other times. If my body is going to force me to spend money, I'll certainly make it as little as possible.
Parent
Neck-beard UNIX guru (Score:5, Funny)
A solid beard lets you look sage while stroking it and giving a measured Hmmm and a nod, while you try to figure out what the hell to do next.
Alternately I could extend my moustache to a Fu Manchu and try out for the next Evil Overlord position that opens up. (I've got the laugh, but an extreme moustache is a job requirement, bastards.)
Parent
Re:A losing battle against facial hair... (Score:4, Interesting)
Razor Blades, in my mind, fall somewhere around cigarettes and crack. I asked for a pack as a stocking stuffer last Christmas and was promptly told that things that sell for $25 deserve their own box.
Parent
The solution: (Score:4, Informative)
It's a lot of fun, too. Not to mention a lot of time and effort -- but if you have the time the results over electric and the Mach 3 are nothing short of fantastic.
Parent
Re:They are... (Score:5, Interesting)
When they're in stock. And they *are* placed at the checkout lines (though at the Ralph's where I shop, they're out so you don't have to ask for them, provided there are any left in stock), which has reduced shoplifting but the damned things are so popular that I've taken to shopping for the eight packs when I can and looking for replacements when I start in on the second cartridge of four.
The Mach3 has got to be one of the best examples of taking a common product and making a seemingly simple change that makes the product indispensible overnight. I picked one up a few months after they came out, and I can't believe I used to put up with other razors. Now if I use a normal two-blade razor, even one of the better ones, I tend to see shaving nicks all over the place. I know of a lot of women that use the Mach3 (or its successor for women, the Venus3) as well because it's less likely to leave nicks on their legs and under their arms.
Parent
Re:They are... (Score:5, Insightful)
The funny thing is, this is preceded by
Of course, these statements are essentially contradictory. Obviously Gillette does not have a monopoly, because there exist alternatives. They apparently offer a superior product, but at a higher cost. The whole point of the free market is, you get to choose what you pay for. If the cheaper blades were as good, people would move to that system and Gillette's price would come down.
Are you alleging that Gillette somehow uses its market presence to squeeze out the other players?
Not every high price indicates the boogey-man of "monopoly". Higher quality sometimes demands higher price.
Parent
Re:They are... (Score:4, Insightful)
Damn straight. After using the Mach3, going back to ordinary razors just didn't cut it.
Parent
Waitrose have a camera on the razor blades... (Score:5, Interesting)
Last week I asked why. The cashier said it's because kids go in and steal them a lot, then come back the next day and ask for the money back (a pack of 8 is rather expensive, and they are easy to slip into pockets). So Waitrose watch the blades carefully and always check reciepts.
Re:Waitrose have a camera on the razor blades... (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd also be suspicious of a kid (which makes me think of up to 12 or so rather than 16) returning razor blades anyway!
Parent
Welcome back sir! (Score:5, Funny)
Is this really so much worse... (Score:5, Interesting)
...than plain old CCTV? Alright, so it's a little unsettling to think of someone with a photo of you taking something off the shelf comparing it with other photos to see if you bought the thing... but odds are if there's a CCTV camera then they're watching you as you take things off the shelf then, too.
Hmm. Doing this without telling people, however, is certainly cause for objection... there should be a sign of some sort, I suppose...
I would imagine that legally it doesn't require anything more than 'CCTV in use on these premesis', since the camera would have been there anyway...?
Re:Is this really so much worse... (Score:5, Interesting)
My understanding at the moment is that you do have to display a sign in the UK if you're filming the public. I doubt you have to do anything extra if you're attempting to link this footage with what's being taken off your shelves too though. It's no doubt being rolled out all over the place already.
I've already quit my job to avoid having a need for one of those identity cards, I've already sent back my driving license and made do with a push bike to stop them tracking me by my number plate, and I got my mobile crushed last week. Looks like I'm going to have to start an allotment now too!
Parent
Re:Is this really so much worse... (Score:5, Insightful)
Um... Most of the major supermarket chains in the UK, including Tesco and Sainsburys, have a "loyalty card" scheme that allows them to do just that, in exchange for a small discount on your shopping. These are used to target advertising, adjust product lines according to customer demand, etc. They don't tell you in as many words that this is what the cards are for, but everyone with an ounce of brain matter knows it, no-one really makes a secret of it at the stores, and it seems the vast majority of their customers voluntarily get such a card, supplying the required information in exchange for a discount.
So yes, they can theoretically track every new purchase you make, as long as you use the card with it. That's the whole point. If you don't like that, don't get the card, but the vast majority of people don't seem to care.
I'm curious to know what they gain by this arrangement, though. There are already scanners on the door at that Tesco (my local branch, half a mile from my home) that are supposed to detect anyone walking out with security tagged goods that haven't been paid for, and a security guard by the door. (The same is true of pretty much every major supermarket over here, and most high street clothing stores etc. where there's a big risk of theft.) What does this gain them, a picture if someone manages to get through the alarmed section and past the guard without setting them off? In that case, what if someone else picked up the tagged item, got photographed, and then replaced it on the shelf, prior to a second person stealing them? Oo-er, doesn't sound promising. Maybe I'll just buy my razors from Sainsburys (the other big supermarket, half a mile in the other direction) instead...
Parent
Re:Is this really so much worse... (Score:4, Funny)
I imagine this theoretical database would be the most horrible conglomeration of utter shit you'd ever have seen. The chances of any useful searches being done on it would be nearly nil, considering what the average government dweeb is like.
This doesn't scare me much actually, nor do I care if a store wants to film me while I buy things. I got accused of theft by some rent-a-cop back when I was about 18 - this would have assured that experience would have never happened. I still hope that guy develops a nasty case of genital warts nonetheless.
Parent
Re:Is this really so much worse... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Is this really so much worse... (Score:4, Interesting)
What you could do is consistently pick up the razorblades every time you visit, place them on another shelf whilst you are shopping and check out without buying them. Then, write to Tesco's Data Controller and ask if they are holding any information on you. Tell them what you have been doing and state that you believe they might have a photo of you. Pay the £10 charge and supply a photo of yourself to help them check. If a few thousand customers did this, they would probably find running the scheme very expensive. They might also be unable to respond within a reasonable time (not sure if there is a statutory response time). That would then put them in breach of Data Protection law.
Parent
Re:There's a flaw here... (Score:5, Interesting)
That's really going to screw up any "photographic auditing" system!
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Most stolen item in Britain (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Most stolen item in Britain (Score:5, Funny)
Though I agree with another poster. It is just a scam. I mean you can buy 100x the weight in metal for the same price... there is a problem
Which is why people shouldn't shave. Too much hassle and really does it matter? Stop feeding stupi corporate three-razor extra-close super-smooth this bitch will fuck you if you use them razor companies.
Tom
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Don't worry (Score:5, Funny)
Obvious problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Is everyone who picks something up, decides they prefer to get a 12 pack, or the cheap disposable, or whatever, going to get investigated by the police?
Re:Obvious problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides, it won't be long before they can track items anywhere in the store with RFID, at which point when you put your 8 pack of blades in with the potato chips, they'll send a stock boy out to put 'em back.
Parent
Re:Obvious problem (Score:4, Insightful)
Needless to say its very hard for the manager to explain the automated bar bill that appears as a result.
The police aren't the only problem with RFID though. If I have the RFID data for a range of products I can do several things that favour the criminal - consider a mugger sitting with a PDA zapping people going past and getting valuations on them..
Estimated $350
Notes:
Take the ring, take the phone
[OK] [CANCEL]
Teenage kids (or bad newspapers) using RFID to obtain the colours of passing womens underwear and bra size is at least merely going to irritate rather than get people targetted.
Parent
There's the end of shopping with your SO (Score:5, Insightful)
- Serge Wroclawski
Re:There's the end of shopping with your SO (Score:4, Insightful)
The thing is, it doesn't. If they build a technical mechanism to catch shoplifters and that mechanism isn't reliable, it's not your problem. "Crime" is a concept defined by law, not technology.
Sure, they might not want to give you this impression, but it's their responsibility to prove that you are guilty of something and if their technology can't give enough proof, the technology is nothing more but a way to scare people. Picking something from a shelf may be proof in some cases, in some cases it isn't.
If you know that you've not stolen anything (which should be rather easy to know...), stand up for your rights if you're accused of something.
Parent
Re:There's the end of shopping with your SO (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, because people are never wrongfully accused, or convicted, based on incomplete or even entirely false evidence.
Personally, I can't afford the legal fees I'd need just to be able to shop in the UK. I take things off shelves all the time and put them back in the wrong place.
Parent
well... (Score:5, Funny)
Simple solution (Score:5, Insightful)
When you go shopping, always have an accomplice - (s)he picks up the blades, hands them to you somewhere else in the store, and you take them to the checkout.
Of course, this would happen 'accidentally' quite often anyway, but it's always good to make more trouble for stupid schemes like this.
PILLAGE AND PLUNDER! (Score:4, Funny)
So, what would happen if we round up 30+ slashdotters and have all of them pillage the rack of razor blades, only to put them all back and pillage some more? You know, with a bunch of beach balls and a large amount of beer we could have a great time while pillaging razorblades!
Technological approach again (Score:5, Insightful)
[This trial] is not to do with security or theft, it is a supply chain trial."
But they then say security staff use it. So what is it for? What supply chain information does it give them that they can't get from the till receipts?
My local supermarket (Safeways, Shepherds Bush) had huge shoplifting problems with razor blades. Rather than implementing this (presumably expensive) scheme, they took the simple step of moving the blades behind the counter at the store pharmacy. Shoplifting drops overnight, no added cost and no privacy concerns.
Why ? (Score:5, Insightful)
So why do they need the photos for ?
Marketing ? But for customer group identification one photo would be sufficient.
What if you take it back later? (Score:5, Insightful)
God , i would love to be able to make trouble about that. If you live in England , try it and if they mark you as a thief then unleash all your fury. (and i don't mean "Slashdot reader mode" fury. i mean "Quake 3 mayhem mode" fury).
Scenario (Score:5, Interesting)
What happens now?
Re:Scenario (Score:3, Informative)
If you read the article, you'd know the whole thing is supervised by human operators. It isn't a case that a machine automatically matches faces and raises an alarm. Presumably one of them would simply ask.
Re:Scenario (Score:5, Funny)
Well, even if you didn't read the article, you've got to realize that there will be a human in the loop somewhere. We aren't quite up to replacing security guards with ED-209 yet.
Robot: "HALT. PRESENT RECEIPT. YOU HAVE TEN SECONDS TO COMPLY."
Customer: "It's right here."
Robot: "YOU NOW HAVE FIVE SECONDS TO COMPLY."
Customer: "It... It's right here!"
Robot: "3...2...1... I AM NOW AUTHORIZED TO PREVENT SHOPLIFTING WITH PHYSICAL FORCE." (gatling guns spin up)
Customer: "Aaahhh!!!"
Parent
Re:Scenario (Score:4, Interesting)
I know, your time is valuable, blah blah blah, but it's damned rude and inconsiderate.
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Cigarettes (Score:3, Interesting)
Is it some kind of subtle lure? Do they fear the drop in sales resulting from the less control of POS presentation? How would that stack up against the losses from shoplifting?
Collecting RFID for further shopping (Score:5, Funny)
Why is this not harmless? (Score:3, Insightful)
You'd think people would be declaring this a privacy *win* since you'll be video taped less now, and only at the points that matter.
Why is this relevent to the linux community? (Score:5, Funny)
Also, simply using the Tesco Online Grocery Shopping [tesco.co.uk] system would get round the problem.
Easy to abuse. (Score:4, Interesting)
- Pick-up some blades, making sure you are snapped by the camera.
- Move outside of the camera range
- Dump the razor blades somewhere else in the store
- Pass at the cash
- When you are stopped by store security, insist that they call the police to search you - only the police has the right to search you
- When the police has found nothing at all, sue the store for false arrest (the manager will perhaps make a counter-offer for free merchandise - I have an aunt to got herself a free mink coat this way after she was arrested by store detectives at Eaton's [Macy's equivalent])
- ????
- profit!
After 10-20 people do that trick, mabye the store will reconsider it's policy...As little added value as possible (Score:4, Insightful)
No, I do not have a loyalty card. No, I do not want an application form. I would tell you why, but then I would have to charge you at my usual hourly rates...
Fun hack to fight RFID. (Score:5, Interesting)
Another cute device but trickier to make might listen for RFID codes to start and jump in in the middle drowning out the last half of the code with random garbage.
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Re:Honestly, (Score:5, Interesting)
But RFID adds so many issues, the fact is the rfid is unique and can be followed back to your residence if you have the right scanners so you now have a photo an item if this information is gathered elsewhere you can follow individuals and some facial recognition elsewhere and tie down a persons where abouts with other rfid purchases that may be worn, in theory at least. How close is that theory from reality and should the philosophical and political issued be discuessed now or later. I personally believe if this debate is not stated more clearly and in a broder context of these few products we see on the market the later systems we fear will be in place before we have a voice to do anything about them. But who knows the future is unwritten.
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Re:You can "check out" any time you want! (Score:4, Funny)
We are all just prisoners here of our own device.
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Parent
Re:Obviously... (Score:4, Insightful)
Until Fritz and Berman pass the Digital Millenium Shopping Act that makes it a felony to "circumvent" (or obfuscate) any hair brained "shoplifiting protection system" even if you don't steal ANYTHING.
Sooner or later the day will come when we are guilty of a crime for simply making it DIFFICULT for private and government authorites to track our every move...
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