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Sen Hatch Would Like To Destroy Filetraders' PCs
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Jun 17, 2003 06:32 PM
from the don'tcha-wish-this-sounded-like-a-joke dept.
from the don'tcha-wish-this-sounded-like-a-joke dept.
CBackSlash writes "Sen. Hatch is interested in technology to remotely destroy computers. But it would only be used if you're downloading copyrighted material, and only the copyright owner should be able to wield this awesome power, since having the feds do it would be against the law. Here is the AP story from Yahoo!."
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Later in the discussion... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Later in the discussion... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Later in the discussion... (Score:5, Funny)
This is ridiculous. Wilful destruction of property is AGAINST THE LAW! Let's look at this another way. He's effectively saying that if you download copyrighted material, someone can be sent by the company that owns it to break both your legs.
Given the sheer number of fakes on P2P software, you could download something claiming to be the new Metallica album, and find it to be an MP3 of someone saying "YOU DOPEY FUCK" a million times. But as far as the record company is concerned, "Oh, he downloaded Metallica's album, nuke him!" and you're left with a pile of smouldering rubble.
Hatch is a cunt.
Parent
Re:Later in the discussion... (Score:5, Interesting)
Plus, one would HOPE you get a warning before they nuke your system.
Wonder if Dell is behind this plan?;)
Parent
Re:Later in the discussion... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Later in the discussion... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm curious...How large a drive do you have in your system?
Personally, I would have to restore over 60 gigs of data if my system got wiped...And yes, I could get it all back, but think of the time investment- not everybody runs semi-bare-bones Linux boxes that can made new in an hour or two, ya know.
Unless you consider an "average
Again by my personal example....I would have to copy over the contents of at least 60 full 700 MB backup CDs, reinstall XP Pro, run Windows Update, reinstall all my other programs from source CDs, hunt Kaaza and websites for stuff that I don't have discs for anymore, hunt down registration codes for installations I could re-download, and restore+update an 8 gig Linux partition with at least a year's worth of tweaks.
In any case, "destroying" someone's machine like Sen. Hatch suggests is always wrong...I don't care if there's 60 gigs or 6 megs there.
Parent
Re:Later in the discussion... (Score:5, Funny)
Better yet, I've got an old IBM Pentium 166! How about I make that the filesharing appliance? Nuke away boys! It'll be up and running again in an hour or so...meanwhile I've got copies of everything on my regular system.
Also I'm in Canada. Where does that asshole get off thinking that he has any right telling me what I can and can't have on any of my computers? He better not venture online, because there are lots of people out there that will have lots of nasty things with his name on them.
Parent
Re:Later in the discussion... (Score:5, Interesting)
I have a question for the Senator from Utah. Under the recently passed Patriot Act distruction of a computer system is considered an act of terrorism. Does the senators recent comments mean he is now supporting act of terrorism?
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I think it's about time... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Later in the discussion... (Score:5, Informative)
Here is a direct link to his feedback/email page: Contact Form [senate.gov]
Parent
Why would he do that? (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, I see why now. Perhaps he received some donations from other upset copyright holders [sco.com].
Re:Why would he do that? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah
Don't fool yourself and think it's only the republicans.
Parent
Re:Why would he do that? (Score:5, Informative)
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Hatch has finally lost it (Score:5, Interesting)
things over the years, but this has to top the list.
I've been a supporter of Hatch for several years, even helping
with the election effort on several occasions. This takes the
cake though, it's time to get fresher blood into that office.
If you want to call his office and complain (as I will):
DC Office: 202.224.5251
SLC Office: 801.524.4380
here is his website:
http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/
Please call and voice your extreme antagonism to these types of
statements. Although the other Senators called him down, he
needs to know that we hear these statements and are against them
in the extreme.
I just got off the phone with the Salt Lake Office, and they had
no idea he had made statements of this nature. In fact she was
quite taken back to hear of them. Please call and let them know
how you feel about this. If they know their voters are against
this type of behavior, they will change it.
Campaign contributors (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Campaign contributors (Score:5, Informative)
1. HealthSouth Corp $38,255
As in this [usdoj.gov] Healthsouth?
I guess piracy, although applicable to a 13 year old kid who downloads a Metallica song, is not applicable to the likes of Ken Lay and Richard Scrushy. I would suggest that if the Senator is truly concerned about fighting crime, he start by returning the money bilked from Healthsouth investors.
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They know nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:They know nothing (Score:5, Interesting)
If this idea becomes a reality, then that skript kiddie was just a visionary! Imagine the aftermath of an Internet worm that sent the 'copyright self destruct' message to a computer a week or so after infecting it (hopefully infected many other computers in the interm). It would make CodeRed look like a pleasant dream.
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Re:They know nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
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Next.... (Score:5, Funny)
watch out! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:watch out! (Score:5, Funny)
If someone put a Celine Dion song on my computer, I would pay to get someone blow it up.
Parent
Finally, something less reasonable... (Score:5, Funny)
Here was my posting of the story: (Score:5, Informative)
Just thought people might appreciate other links and such...guess I should've submitted it a couple minutes earlier....oh well
Don't worry (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
What's up w/ the Hatches? (Score:5, Informative)
Will someone please investigation campaign contributions made to Orrin? I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that Microsoft has made significant contributions to Mr. Hatch's past campaigns.
This sounds like a great idea if..... (Score:5, Insightful)
The stupidity of our elected officials never ceases to amaze me.
Larger implications (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Larger implications (Score:5, Insightful)
No, this is about allowing powerful corporations to legally take vigilante action to protect their revenue streams. At the click of a button, without filling out any paperwork. This is, of course, far far worse.
The government can already cease your computer for years for 'analysis'. This is a de facto punishment for hacking imposed by law enforcement. Not good, but at least they have to drive out to your house and fill out some forms.
Parent
So much for computers in the government (Score:5, Funny)
Scary (Score:5, Interesting)
If you read his comments in context, the truth of what he said becomes obvious.
Cyberphobia among the old guard, as represented by people in Hatch's generation, has given way to overt, unbridled hatred of technology and its advocates. He views internet users as a group of miscreants who must be taught a lesson and his suggestions of remote computer destruction as a perfectly valid means of holding due process hostage to force us to solve the content industry's problems.
I am aghast.
This is already possible - Grubbnix! (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyways, the interesting part of Grubbnix was that it had a lot of capability and use when it came to flashing your BIOS (most major motherboard companies today still use a Grubbnix variant with their flashing utilities). I still remember one variant called Hucker (or something like that, maybe Huckey) that was spread around on disks to unsuspecting users. When you loaded it and left it running, it opened up your system enough so that someone via TCP/IP could execute commands, one of which was to completely shitfuck your BIOS, and sometimes even managed to cause damage to the CPU/motherboard by modifying threshold settings in the BIOS (depending on your model #).
It used to be passed out to "enemies" at HackerCons, who would then take it home, load it, and end up with a fucked PC.
Perhaps Senator Hatch needs to give the Cult of the Dead Cow an e-mail and see if they still have the source around somewhere
No excuse (Score:5, Insightful)
And there is an excuse for vandalizing a PC?
What about due process? (Score:5, Insightful)
Vigilante justice is outlawed in every other form -- this is little more than authorizing digital lynch mobs.
Just > /dev/null (Score:5, Insightful)
Coming soon! (Score:5, Funny)
Cars whose tires go flat when you speed.
Oxygen tanks that cease providing oxygen when diving in restricted areas.
Planes whose wings fall off when flying over restricted space.
Trenchcoats that burst into flame when used to conceal theft of 3 pens from the office.
Buildings which systematically disassemble themselves when accountants working for the company owning the building fudge figures.
Planets that implode when governments on them begin passing fucking retarded laws.
Children (Score:5, Insightful)
Destroying someone's PC as a punishment for copyright violations is like spanking them: artificially making it a bad thing.
Adults spank their children. Adults don't spank other adults. Corporations shouldn't be spanking anybody.
Indirect consequences (Score:5, Interesting)
There are studies-- ones i can't remember the names of or links to, of course-- that show that spanking a child makes that child more likely to grow up to be a violent person. If I remember right, the claim was that people who had corporal punishment used on them as a child were more likely to grow up to be the kind of person who beat their wives or children.
The reason given for this, again if i remember right, was that by having violence used on them at such a sensitive age, the child grows up thinking violence is "normal", and application of violence is how you are expected to solve problems, and beating someone is an acceptable and normal way for one human to get another human to comply with a request.
So, here's my thought: what happens if the RIAA hacking and screwing up your computer if you've been filetrading becomes common? What happens to the children/teenagers who grow up under this kind of paradigm, and grow up seeing that the RIAA, this big important adult business thing that funds congressional campaigns and everything, reacts to people doing things it things are wrong by tracking them down and breaking their stuff?
If it works like spanking does, well, we may well wind up with a generation growing up thinking vigilante justice is normal. Or maybe growing up with a kind of "us vs them" mentality toward corporations; that corporations are some kind of big distant enemies who can do anything they like without the law applying. And you can't tell a kid that someone big is allowed to hit you and you can't hit back and have them believe you. They might wind up growing up thinking that terrorism by corporations against citizens, and terrorism against corporations by citizens, is normal, and the law considers such things acceptable enough they don't regulate them.. as long as one is doing the other doesn't like...
This is stretching, and of course, none of this will ever come to pass. But, just a thought.
Parent
Against the law... (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually though, as long as they are still liable for any damages they inflict this will be fun. Let's see, they (will/would have) just destroyed a $1000 computer, with $10000 (and if you can't figure out a way to back that figure up you need help) of the user's own data to delete a $0.99 song. Can we spin this?
Of course, it is better to stop this now, before the circus...
Before you freak out (oops, too late)... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's well known in certain circles that Hatch is trying to pressure the IT companies into helping to solve the p2p piracy problem. I suspect he doesn't REALLY believe in damaging people's computers, he's just saying that to try and pressure the IT companies into getting something done. He is a song writer himself and is particularly interested in copyright issues but is frustrated with the lack of progress, thus his over zealous comments. He is a politician, after all, so statements like this are just part of his game. There is no way it will ever be legal to trash someoneâ(TM)s computer for a copyright violation since this would be like making it legal to trash someoneâ(TM)s house if they steal cable TV (not gonna happen).
This is definitely nonobvious (Score:5, Funny)
United States Patent Application 732980759-32754321
User interface for remotely enforcing copyright
Abstract
A user interface and corresponding application program interface (API) and hardware device providing a set of functions for remotely enforcing copyright legislation.
Inventors: Hatch, Orrin (R-Utah), MillionthMonkey
Serial No.: 053243653216
Series Code: 10
Filed: June 17, 2003
Claims
1. A software architecture for a distributed computing system comprising: a pissed off copyright holder, a hardware device capable of being remotely destroyed over a network; and an application program interface to present two dialog boxes to a user who is sharing files to present functions of the application to access and destroy his hardware.
2. A software architecture as recited in claim 1, wherein the distributed computing system comprises client devices and peer-to-peer devices that handle requests from other peer-to-peer devices, the remote devices having been hardwired with explosives by the manufacturer.
3. A software architecture as recited in claim 1, wherein the distributed computing system comprises client devices and peer-to-peer devices that handle requests from other peer-to-peer devices, the remote devices having been sharing files with other peer-to-peer devices as outlined in section 1.
4. A software architecture as recited in claim 1, wherein the application program interface comprises: a first group of services related to discovery of file sharing activity, a second group of services related to displaying two dialog boxes to the user, and a third group of services related to remotely detonating a device as outlined in section 1.
5. An application program interface as recited in claim 4, wherein the first group of services comprises: first functions that enable copyright holder to scour remote device for peer-to-peer activity relating to copyrighted content; a second group of services related to displaying two threatening messages to the user, and a third group of services related to reception of the kill signal and subsequent detonation.
CONCLUSION
Although the invention has been described in language specific to structural features and/or methodological acts, it is to be understood that the invention defined in the appended claims is not necessarily limited to the specific features or acts described. Rather, the specific features and acts are disclosed as exemplary forms of implementing the claimed invention.
And I'm off to the patent office! Later, suckas!
Lawsuit! (Score:5, Insightful)
RIAA: "You had some of our copyrighted material."
Me: "I did not! Prove I had your stuff!"
RIAA: "No, you're the one suing me. You prove it."
Me: "I *CAN'T*! You destroyed my PC!"
RIAA: "A-ha!"
http://codexwriter.xadiumproductions.ath.cx/ (Score:5, Funny)
Quotes from Senator Hatch, "If that's the only way, then I'm all for destroying their machines. If you have a few hundred thousand of those, I think people would realize"
"There's no excuse for anyone violating copyright laws," Hatch said.
Now as you can imagine, there are a lot of people who are pretty upset with the idea. They are all yelling and screaming, but I am smiling.
I for one applaud Mr. Hatch! These are exactly the kinds of laws I hope he can get passed.
He has my staunch support!
I also think cars should warn you twice before you drive faster than the speed limit and then just shut off... forever. This will cause there to be fewer cars on the road, less cars means less pollution and fewer traffic jams Phones used in movie theaters should warn you once, and then stop working, which will lead to lower numbers of brain cancers. J-walkers should get two warnings and then have their legs amputated (that will teach them) thus reducing the need for rubber (for shoes) and saving from exploitation South American rubber tree sap harvesters. In fact I think it would be a good idea to lace the worlds drug supplies with poison rather than spending so much money in the obviously unwinnable war on drugs! Then we can sit back relax, and let it resolve itself.
Now as all it will take is one script kiddie to write a program that accesses the RIAA backdoor computer kill function and start wiping out all the american desktop pc's (zap, zap, zap) some of you may find Mr. Hatch's position to be poorly thought out. Nothing could be more untrue. We can hardly blame this potentiality on a lack of forethought with regards to Mr. Hatch, to not implement these features merely because they will be abused would be like limiting the availability of handguns just because they "might" be used by criminals- ridiculous!
Of course Mr. Hatch will decry the hacking should it occur, and will probably find a way to use the words "domestic-terrorists" somehow, but everyone will know whose wonderful idea it was to make computers with a kill switch and they will all bless him! For you see though the outrage will ripple across America as hardware that cost several thousand dollars simply stops working, though Mr. Hatch will become the focal point of (even more) scorn, and people will be forced to buy new computers every couple of days.(... isn't that good for the economy after all? Why settle for the natural inclination of the home user to upgrade every few years, when we can do forced upgrades all the time!) though they will curse and revile his name they will all have eggs on their faces when it's Hatch's magical kill switches that save us all from OMNI-sentient-Cyberian 9000, the ultra-networked Uber-AI. Why the moment it starts passing data around its nodes on how to most efficiently wipe out humanity the kill switches will presume large file sharing activity means illegal copyright violations and a cascade of kill switch activations will spread node to node like a deadly computer cancer saving us all from destruction beneath the heel of our robot masters!
-Codexwriter
false assocation (Score:5, Insightful)
I really hate it when polititians use such blatantly flawed logic. Of course violating copyright laws is wrong, but his suggestion has nothing to do with whether or not it is right share copyrighted material. With that logic I might be defending my decision to shoot the guy who cut me off this morning by saying "There's no excuse for dangerous lane changes." The illegality of an act is never sufficient justification for a particular response.
Time for Hatch to be remotely removed... (Score:5, Insightful)
He later seemed to flip positions, doing a number of things to help Napster out, and many slashdotters were singing his praises. I was more doubtful, but I bit my tongue, thinking that maybe he had changed. Obviously he has not; either that, or that second big contribution finally came through from the RIAA, so it's time to go to bat for them again.
Here's a great synopsis of what people seemed to generally think of him back in the Napster days: link [theregister.co.uk]
I think it's time for us (esp. in Utah) to make sure he doesn't get another term. Even viewed in the most favorable light, the guy is definitely a loose cannon. The big problem is, no one of any quality ever seems to run against him, and in this heavily Republican state, it's unlikely that a mediocre Democrat with no real platform can win.
Remember this moment at the next election, Utahns!
-- Dave
The real conflict (Score:5, Insightful)
If copyright cannot coexist with freedom of speech, the right to privacy, and due process of law, it is time for copyright to go.
Put it that way to the content industry, and maybe they'll have a strong incentive to think of a workable and non-subversive way to run their businesses.
Re:Meh (Score:5, Insightful)
You think it's okay for American corporations to disrupt activities of American citizens?
Okay, if it's illegal or a civil court issue, fine, take it to court. But since when is it okay for them to decide who's naughty and who's nice and take action themselves?
Oh, it's too expensive to sue everyone? Hmmm. maybe there's a reason for that. Maybe there's a reason "piracy" is so "rampant". Rather than changing the laws to allow themselves to attack without due process perhaps they should look at their business model and current technology and reconsider how they do business.
Parent
From the Mysterious Future (Score:5, Funny)
Hmm, there was that guy who spun a CD-ROM up to 52x and made it shatter.
Suppose RIAA were to embed little metal weights to unbalance every CD they ship.
Put it in your CD-ROM or Discman, it plays back at 1x, and you hear music. If the Discman is stuffed down your pants, you might even enjoy it.
But since we all know that RIAA considers a high-speed CD-R drive as "equivalent to" multiple CD-R drives, and consequently a Weapon of Mass Piracy (an ironic acronym, to be sure), if one was to put a suitably-unbalanced CD into a high-speed CD-ROM drive and attempt to "rip" the content to WAV files for future MP3 encoding, the disc would shatter, effectively destroying the drive, and possibly damaging other components in the computer.
One could double-up on this by embedding granules of pyrophoric (combusts in contact with oxygen) materials in nitrogen or other inert-gas bubbles in the disc substrate. The disc shatters in the high-speed piracy weapon, neutralizing it, and then the pyrophoric granules ignite, dumping toxic fumes and possibly burning other components inside the copyright terrorist's weapon (aka "computer").
Prediction: RIAA will develop this technology, and its use will be mandated. Within six months of the passage of the Active Countermeasures Against Copyright Terrorism Act, a 747 will be brought down by a Muslim whackjob playing Britney Spears in a laptop.
Congress will immediately respond to this new security threat... by passing another to require that all laptops be checked as baggage. A thunderous roar of "Dude! We're getting your Dell!" will be heard from airport security screeners worldwide.
Parent
Re:They might be out of touch with us... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:They might be out of touch with us... (Score:5, Insightful)
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